Hi-fi versus music

[Gordon Steadman]

That old chestnut has raised its head in this household this week.

We are doing a load of building work which is raising dust and try as we might we dust sheets and closing all the doors, the damned stuff gets everywhere.

So I've packed all the hi-fis up (except the two bedroom systems) and they are all in one room with the door taped up and under cover. Can't live without music downstairs so I dragged out the old Rogers Ravensbrook and that drives the KEF101s and cans. The usual amp is a Pioneer A757. A gem I reckon in the purest hi-fi sense. Incredibly clean, pin sharp, fantastic bass, all the usual stuff.

The old Rogers is not in the same class and yet....but..... it seems so natural, involving, musical (whatever that means) that I just sit and listen and object to Ronnie interrupting me, even for coffee!! In theory, its a bit dull, warm and would no doubt be accused of being pipe and slippers. Like the Quad gear, that is just nonsense when it makes music so enjoyable. This is with the iMac as source, all Apple lossless files. It seems a bit strange not to have a TT going but it, hopefully, is not for that long.

Hopefully, the dust won't clog up the Mac.

It will be interesting to see how I find the Pioneer if and when it gets back into the snug system.

[bbbiker800]

I can imagine by the time u get the work done and your systems are back in place u may experience a bit of an epiphany ... A cross roads if u like? IE stick with the 'old-fi' and ditch the 'hifi'.… it's crossed my mind before now !

Good luck with the work.

[Sherwood]

The best hifi can be very good but it is still a long way away from the sound of real music. I think what you are describing in this post is the difference between "hifi" in the conventional sense of the word (the recreation of music as close to the original source as possible) and what I would call "happyfi". I think most of the members of this forum will have an audio imprint of something heard years ago that provides a nice warm fuzzy feeling without necessarily being an accurate rendition of what was recorded. I can recall listening to "Trenchtown Rock" for the first time on a system with huge undamped bass and a seriously rolled off treble". Today, when I listen to that album on a good system I cannot help but think the old system was how it should sound. Likewise, I remember listening to "Baker Street" on a system with Wharfedale Linton speakers. Again, sounded great. Perhaps in the search for greater "fidelity" we lose some of what made hifi fun in the first place?

Geoff

[Barry]

Yes, there is something to be said for the unquantifiable and unmeasurable 'enjoyment' or 'fun' factor. A phenomenon that is often missing in many 'high end' systems. One only needs vist a few audio shows to hear what I'm talking about.

[RobbieGong]

Yep, What you get with a good and true hi-fidelity set up is that you really hear into the recording cause that is what a vinyl record is.
If the music has been recorded a bit thin, peaky, bass light, bass heavy etc etc that is what you will hear from a good and proper hi-fidelity set up.
Problem is some people dont get that, so they drive themselves nuts 'messin and fiddling' with stuf because they want everything to sound full, weighty, dynamic etc etc
A good system that is genuine hi-fidelity will play whats in the grooves warts an' all - again some either dont get that or cant handle when it happens.
Personally I like that a lot, I want to hear what was recorded, how and whatever it is, it just really fascinates me and the insight really floats my boat big time ;)

[Rick_F]

For me, expectations can be an issue when listening to a system. If it's an expensive system I somehow expect to be amazed. I tend to set the bar too high so that no matter how good it is, I find ways to pick holes in it and struggle to enjoy the music. Conversely, if I get to listen to a more modest system or gear I don't know about, the expectations aren't there and I'm usually amazed at just how good & musical it all sounds. This has certainly been my experience at Scalford over the years.

[the little audio company]

The old Rogers is not in the same class and yet....but..... it seems so natural, involving, musical (whatever that means) that I just sit and listen and object to Ronnie interrupting me, even for coffee!! In theory, its a bit dull, warm and would no doubt be accused of being pipe and slippers. Like the Quad gear, that is just nonsense when it makes music so enjoyable.I've had quite a few speaker systems pass through this room, and they've all had to deal with AV as well as they do hi-fi, and most do. Much of what I've had are technically better and more accurate speakers, but when I put on my Jim Rogers JR149s, they just sound "right". I know they're lacking in certain areas, but it does make me wonder just what they can sound like if I upgraded the crossovers and gave them a refresh.

[RobbieGong]

I've had quite a few speaker systems pass through this room, and they've all had to deal with AV as well as they do hi-fi, and most do. Much of what I've had are technically better and more accurate speakers, but when I put on my Jim Rogers JR149s, they just sound "right". I know they're lacking in certain areas, but it does make me wonder just what they can sound like if I upgraded the crossovers and gave them a refresh.

totally relate to what you're saying here David. My Mission 752 Freedoms sound so right to my ears and have brought me endless pleasure.
I often find myself thinking they shouldnt sound this good for such a humble speaker but they do.
And like you i've pondered the 'refresh', upgraded cross overs and so on BUT I'm scared ! would it really be worth opening them up and 'messin' when I love what they do so much anyway. And what if I didnt like the new character after the messin :eek: common sense tells me to leave well alone, nothings wrong so leave well alone ! :)

[the little audio company]

Maybe it's the fact that the speakers are so old that they've bedded in very nicely, the edges are now rounded off, and they're just very easy on the ear. I'm sure that replacing crossover components and even drivers will tighten things back up and improve things from a technical point of view, but will it change it so much that you may change your view of them?

[montesquieu]

Totally get this, though I have the taste for both.

In the study I'm running a lightly modded Lenco with AS-212 arm and £60 (£60!) Shure SC35C cartrdge, into an old Cyrus One integrated and a pair of 80s Tannoy 603s, along with a Denon all in one (CD, FM tuner, RDS radio and power amp) that I use the Tape Out from to get CD and radio.

Takes me right back to teenage years (my old Technics DD, Pioneer amp and Wharfedales - long before I bought my LP12 and my first Tannoys). Not that it sounds the same but like the old gear, it just sounds fun. In addition to the news and the ARchers on the radio, what at I play on there is the stuff that doesn't really work on the main hifi - Dylan records, scratchy old stuff from schooldays whether it's Bowie albums, Yes albums or long worn out old copies of Beethoven symphones or Bach concertos. Singalong music.

Most of this is either too crackly to sit down and listen too in the main rig - and for me at least, Dylan was never meant to be played in 'hifi' - it's about the words not about the ambiance in the Columbia studio where it was put together in 1964 or 1974. Acutally pretty much anything sounds 'nice' in there, but really good recordings or indeed good interpretations don't stand out in the same way they do in the main rig.

And of course that's where the main rig really starts - hearing the communication in a piano trio or madrigal group, getting the scale of an orchestra or a big band - the study rig just won't give you that.

What I have done with the main rig over the years though is tone down the emphasis on revealing detail, in favour of timbre, timing and musicality - I've literally had setups in the past where you feel you can count the choir members, but emotionally it leaves you dead. For me now, finding that balance is more important than n'th degree detail.

I love that phrase 'happy-fi' and will start using it. That is, indeed, exactly what it is.

[Marco]

What I have done with the main rig over the years though is tone down the emphasis on revealing detail, in favour of timbre, timing and musicality - I've literally had setups in the past where you feel you can count the choir members, but emotionally it leaves you dead.


Spot on, Tom :)

I could use that quote on the 'Pain of neutral sound' discussion, running alongside this thread in Blank Canvas, as it neatly encapsulates the difference that most can plainly hear between good vintage gear and today's equipment, where tone, timbre and musicality have been traded for 'clarity' and detail retrieval. The latter is all good and well, but when delivered without enough of the former, can result in sterility.

For me, creating the "happy hi-fi"/fun factor thing, with a system, is absolutely essential, as it provides a fundamental 'connection' with the music that allows the listener to relax and enjoy the experience, instead of remaining continually in 'analytical mode', which sadly isn't always possible with a lot of today's equipment.

There's simply no point in having something that is 'brutally accurate' on paper [I'm using inverted commas here because often it's almost the exact opposite], but in the real world sadly lacking in the ability to musically satisfy.

Marco.