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Steve Toy
03-01-2010, 20:27
I was browsing through the Mark Grant website a few weeks ago and I came upon these:

http://markgrantcables.co.uk/shop/in...products_id=69 (http://markgrantcables.co.uk/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=45_18&products_id=69)

I thought... dual screened, twisted construction, quality plugs and IEC connectors and only 50 quid or thereabouts depending on length required. I also noted that this was no off-the-shelf job, he builds them from scratch.

So I gave him a call and he agreed to send me two pairs on a sale or return basis to try but he warned me that out of 100 pairs sent out to customers the only returns were those of incorrect length.

They duly arrived and I decided to swap out my best mains leads, the Music Works Cryo treated Recoil leads for these. The improvement was instantly noticeable. The first thing I noticed was bass notes, in fact all notes, had more distinctive texture, timing improved and rhythms on percussion seemed to make more sense. Beth Rowley's voice on the Little Dreamer CD had more presence, subtle inflections were more clearly audible. On The Eagles Long Road out of Eden double CD, on the track No more Cloudy Days there is an alto sax playing about half way through the track. Hmm, nice! Not only is it not taking my ears off any more there's also this lovely warble inflection on the really long note. Not heard that before.

I then spent much of the day just listening attentively to lots of discs and enjoying every moment. Long term listening without the slightest fatigue was now possible. Close your eyes and it's a turntable playing not CD.

I wouldn't say these cables were necessarily better than the Music Works ones in an absolute sense. In a full Audio Works system with the Revo rack, MIT cabling and the components that seem to happily walk the Larry Ogden/Audio Works hi-fi tight rope, the Recoil leads are probably more suitable, but in my system with more conventional cabling, lots of valves and a 3-box CD player, it's a no-brainer. The Mark Grant leads are just pure class and a bargain for the money.

I left it a few days to be sure it wasn't my imagination and got back on the phone to Mark to order 2 more.

So, how do they work?

Good quality connections and copper wire obviously help with dynamics and the dual screening (earthed braided copper and foil inside the outer insulating jacket) removes a lot of that nasty RFI which sits on much of the musical information coming off the disc as it feeds into the signal path at that critical point in close proximity to your kit. Yes the electricity has travelled 100s of miles around the national grid before entering our house, the consumer unit and the mains ring or dedicated spur but that last metre or so before entering your kit is critical and in such close proximity is more likely to be picked up by your electronics.

Whether you are comfortable with the science or not, it really doesn't matter. Those of you who trust your ears will take a punt on this. You risk paying the return postage if it doesn't make a significant improvement to your music listening experience and if this is the case then it is more likely that there is a bigger bottleneck in your system than your mains leads. Either that or you already use very high quality mains cables that cost considerably more.

If you are genuinely curious order one or two of these and try them on your CD player or DAC. It'll cost you a fiver at most if you don't derive any benefit and if you do, it'll be one of your cheapest ever hi-fi upgrades.

Marco
03-01-2010, 20:42
Good write-up, Steve; most informative.

I really like Mark's attention to detail with cables, and the way he bases their design simply on high quality component parts and solid engineering principles - there is no pseudo-scientific bullshit attached to his products, which even before one listens to them, lends them a credibility that is so often lacking in the foo which surrounds the whole cable industry.

I'll be contacting Mark myself and trying some - if they oust my Transparents that will really be something. The mains leads which supply my transport and DAC alone cost £750 each!!

If the Mark Grants are better, I look forward to being 'quid's in', as I was when I sold my expensive Transparent interconnects for (ultimately) the G1000HDs ;)

There's only one way to find out! :)

Marco.

Peter Stockwell
06-01-2010, 12:41
Steve,

Thanks for the heads up on this I'm going to try this cable on my Avondale S100, currently sitting on one end of a Grahams Hydra. Noticed that the simliar post on pfm generated a certain amount of hostility.

Themis
06-01-2010, 13:27
I will get a couple of these shortly.

Nice write up Steve, pity that some were not fair with you on PFM, btw. But, again, what can you expect ? ;)

Peter Stockwell
06-01-2010, 13:34
Just ordered a Schuko version of Mark, postage tomorrow! Great service!!

Steve Toy
19-01-2010, 19:25
Peter, what do you think?

DSJR
19-01-2010, 19:35
As I can't afford these cables, they're rubbish of course.......:punch:


I'll tell you summat though, the HD audio cable is superb and disappears from the sonic picture and just does its job without EVER drawing your attention to it. I hope that the mains cables will do the same for anyone needing some rf handling on their mains supply.

Peter Stockwell
20-01-2010, 08:18
Peter, what do you think?

I think it's very, very good, I just put in the system yesterday. But only had 20 mins or so to get an idea.

It actually just took the 1st note to convince me.

chrism
20-01-2010, 08:48
Hi Peter,

If one cable on the S100 can make such a difference just imagine how good your system will sound when you have one for every bit! :eek::eek:

Regards

Chris

Peter Stockwell
20-01-2010, 10:03
If one cable on the S100 can make such a difference just imagine how good your system will sound when you have one for every bit!

Chris,

I'm pleased. In my system, when it was all Naim, I used a grahams hydra. With the move to some Avondale & Teddy Pardo components, The Preamp and the Squeezebox PSU are on one spur with Missing Link Opus-F cables and the Power Amp on another.

I could be getting a better result because of not having the 1 to many cable join. However, I can't run more than two sources at the same time, which is a bit inconvenient, not enough sockets for all source components.

The earth for these Spurs is common.

I've asked Mark if can explain "why" his cable should be better.

Peter Stockwell
25-01-2010, 10:33
Peter, what do you think?

I just ordered a set for the system!

twelvebears
25-01-2010, 11:56
Thanks for this post Steve, it was most timely as I have been considering my mains leads as part of my bit to sort out my 'power issues'

Slightly off-topic, but what do people use/are their views on power conditioners/filters?

Steve Toy
25-01-2010, 11:57
Good stuff. I take it he's used decent Shukos.

Steve Toy
25-01-2010, 12:00
AnthonyTD makes a power filter and it's brilliant- does the job, gives you more music yet does not sit on the dynamics. I've orered one.

Peter Stockwell
25-01-2010, 12:35
Steve,

Mark used very decent Schukos and at a price that is unbeatable. I really liked what the Missing link Opus-F did on source and low power equipmenty and was not expecting the Mark Grant cable to be clearer and more explicit.

I'll be moving along my Missing link cables, just as soon as I take delivery of the remaining Mark Grants.

cheers

electric beach
25-01-2010, 13:47
Thanks for this post Steve, it was most timely as I have been considering my mains leads as part of my bit to sort out my 'power issues'

Slightly off-topic, but what do people use/are their views on power conditioners/filters?

I would endorse and agree with Steve's review of the Mark Grants 100%.

I bought one and compared it to my existing RA Yellos and a Belden design of the same price. The MG couldn't be compared, it sounded soooo different :stalks: I put a review on Mark's site and ordered two more. I'll be upgrading the Yellos in turn also.

Unless you've got a burning desire to own some exotica...:scratch: you must at least try one of these.


For mains distribution I use a Vertex Taga, which incorporates passive filtering and the Jaya, which is a filter only.
There wasn't an Anthony On Supersound model then or I would have had that without a second thought or even audition.
However, I would say that the entry level Vertex filter, the Jaya, is something that I wouldn't be without again. They're quite versatile and if you buy a used one, a bargain. Sorted my TV picture as a Brucey Bonus.

I have quite extreme fluctuations to the power supply in my area and although I can still achieve far superior sound later in the evening, the filters that I've installed (passive!) have not only improved the musical communication (as opposed to merely a more refined presentation), but have allowed serious sessions at any time now.

giorgino
25-02-2010, 01:54
Many thanks Steve for your heads-up on Mark Grant's power cables. I'll definitely give his products a try (IC, PC etc). They are so reasonably priced that it's worth a punt especially when forum members owning much higher priced cables endorse his products.

(To Steve twelvebears)
I have owned a range of power filters mains conditioners in the past: Russ Andrew silencer, Purifiers, Ben Duncan Pure Power, ISOTEK, Vertex Jaya, Enacom. They all worked to a greater or lesser extent. However, they seem to do so at a price. I found them to "sit" on the dynamics (some more than others). My most recent products were Enacoms and they were fitted on the speakers and power bar but I eventually took them off due to the slight sat upon effect. The same was true with the Vertex when I placed at a nearby socket to the system. I finally placed the Vertex in another room to (I guess) dilute the effects. Haven't properly tried any of the regeneration products like Pure Power or PS Audio but they are less high up my on priority list since my latest weird voodoo tweaks. Will do a post with pics soon... :)

HighFidelityGuy
25-02-2010, 16:01
Could someone please do me a favor and check to see if the braided shield is connected to the earth pin on the plug on their MG power cables? I was under the impression that this was required to make the shielding work but I'm sure the braiding on my MG power cables isn't earthed. :scratch:

Can anyone shed any light on this?

Cheers. :)

Marco
25-02-2010, 16:40
Hi Dave,


Could someone please do me a favor and check to see if the braided shield is connected to the earth pin on the plug on their MG power cables?


Yes, the shield is connected to the earth at the plug end, and this is indeed what makes it work. However, there is a sleeve over both the shield and earth wire to make it look neater, so the shield isn't in fact visible :)

Marco.

HighFidelityGuy
25-02-2010, 16:57
Hi Dave,



Yes, the shield is connected to the earth at the plug end, and this is indeed what makes it work. However, there is a sleeve over both the shield and earth wire to make it look neater, so the shield isn't in fact visible :)

Marco.

Thanks Marco, that probably explains why it looked like it wasn't connected. I'll double check but it's probably just Marks super attention to detail that's throwing me off. :)

Has anyone compared Marks cable to one made out of Belden 83803 cable? Like THIS (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=310173085923) one for example.

Cheers. :)

jon1
25-02-2010, 19:33
Well i have 3 DSP 2.5 power leads coming for mark on Saturday..see how they perform:)




jon

DSJR
25-02-2010, 20:31
I only need one and that's fine.. :)

jon1
25-02-2010, 20:43
I only need one and that's fine.. :)

It is alright for some:(cheap do



jon

MartinT
26-02-2010, 07:38
Slightly off-topic, but what do people use/are their views on power conditioners/filters?

I've used a PS Audio Powerplant Premier for a while now (and previous generations too). I would never be without it. In my view, power regeneration is mandatory when your system reaches a certain level of performance and beats any other component upgrade hands-down for the money. Dynamics, noise floor, dimensionality all improve tremendously.

electric beach
26-02-2010, 14:16
Thanks Marco, that probably explains why it looked like it wasn't connected. I'll double check but it's probably just Marks super attention to detail that's throwing me off. :)

Has anyone compared Marks cable to one made out of Belden 83803 cable? Like THIS (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=310173085923) one for example.

Cheers. :)

I bought exactly the one pictured. Questions on it's apparent negative effect in my system elicited the response from Marco that the 'hardened' high frequencies were probably a trait of the cable. I subsequently tried the Mark Grants and it proved to be the case; the MG's ( I now have three) gave a refined top end and reintroduction of the Belden emphasised the leading edges, killed the instrument tone and returned the forced, CD sound.

But make no mistake, the difference between these cables is so marked that it's quite unfair to even compare them.

The Belden was like upsampling to me, which I just can never settle with. It's the forced leading edges at the expense of soundstage and tone.

The RA Yello was my standard reference and my complete cable loom for many years. I think it was forgiving with some less able components than I have now and seemed to enhance a more natural sound. Now I rather hear them limiting ambience, detail and musical flow (they certainly squash the sound more than my beloved Vertex Jaya).

Introducing the Mark Grant power leads has been educational. It has enhanced the strengths of my system whilst adding a balance and naturalness that just sounds so right. The sound is becoming more open, 3-dimensional and liquid with each one I add. It's a wonderful tool!


Anyone want to buy my Belden 83803 before I put it on the kettle? ;)

HighFidelityGuy
26-02-2010, 14:50
Thanks Steve, I'll steer clear of the Belden leads. :)

I liked what my existing MG power cable did when I added it to my AV, amp so based on that and what everyone else is saying it seems a sensible idea to roll out the MG's across my whole system.

That's where I run into a problem though. I want to keep the number of connections in my power cabling to a minimum for obvious performance reasons. So I've wondered about using THESE (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350264603133) "Hydra" plugs to allow me to group equipment together into a smaller number of plugs. Does anyone have any experience with these? Do they offer any sonic benefits?

If so I'll have to ask Mark if he can make me some custom Hydra leads.

Thanks. :)

P.S. On the subject of my earthed braiding question, I checked my MG cable and it does look like the braid is connected to earth. Mark has used some green and yellow earthing coloured shrink wrap to keep the braid bonded to the earth wire. Very tidy indeed. I also love the way he's used silver solder to fix the wires to the screw terminals. That will really help the cable last a lifetime. Very nice workmanship.


I bought exactly the one pictured. Questions on it's apparent negative effect in my system elicited the response from Marco that the 'hardened' high frequencies were probably a trait of the cable. I subsequently tried the Mark Grants and it proved to be the case; the MG's ( I now have three) gave a refined top end and reintroduction of the Belden emphasised the leading edges, killed the instrument tone and returned the forced, CD sound.

But make no mistake, the difference between these cables is so marked that it's quite unfair to even compare them.

The Belden was like upsampling to me, which I just can never settle with. It's the forced leading edges at the expense of soundstage and tone.

The RA Yello was my standard reference and my complete cable loom for many years. I think it was forgiving with some less able components than I have now and seemed to enhance a more natural sound. Now I rather hear them limiting ambience, detail and musical flow (they certainly squash the sound more than my beloved Vertex Jaya).

Introducing the Mark Grant power leads has been educational. It has enhanced the strengths of my system whilst adding a balance and naturalness that just sounds so right. The sound is becoming more open, 3-dimensional and liquid with each one I add. It's a wonderful tool!


Anyone want to buy my Belden 83803 before I put it on the kettle? ;)

Marco
26-02-2010, 17:12
Hi Steve,


I bought exactly the one pictured. Questions on it's apparent negative effect in my system elicited the response from Marco that the 'hardened' high frequencies were probably a trait of the cable. I subsequently tried the Mark Grants and it proved to be the case; the MG's ( I now have three) gave a refined top end and reintroduction of the Belden emphasised the leading edges, killed the instrument tone and returned the forced, CD sound.


That's *exactly* what they do, Steve, so I'm glad that I helped you identify it and also eradicate the effect from your system. Most Belden cables, unfortunately, seem to have this type of sonic signature - the speaker cables are the same, hence why I now use VDH 'The Wind', which is very good indeed, and in a totally different class to the Belden stuff. The VDH is one example of 'high-end' speaker cable that's definitely worth the money. It also synergises really well with the G1000HDs :)

Anyway, I'm glad that the Mark Grant mains leads worked out, too - those are better value for money than even the G1000HDs, and as such offer higher SPPV again - quite frankly, EVERY system should have some. It's one of the easiest recommendations I could make! Here's a picture of the £800 Transparents they retired without breaking much sweat:

http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/7063/stransparentcablemanast.jpg (http://img246.imageshack.us/i/stransparentcablemanast.jpg/)

http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/7063/stransparentcablemanast.jpg (http://img18.imageshack.us/i/stransparentcablemanast.jpg/)

:eek: Cheerio, Transparents :wave:

Marco.

Ian Walker
26-02-2010, 18:31
Yes the ashes you can see in the Chimnea are from the Transparents he burnt earlier:)

jon1
26-02-2010, 18:46
Yes the ashes you can see in the Chimnea are from the Transparents he burnt earlier:)


How many as he got?:eyebrows:



jon

Themis
26-02-2010, 19:04
quite frankly, EVERY system should have some. It's one of the easiest recommendations I could make!
I ordered a 2.5 model today, I'll report back when it arrives. If you're wrong, you pay the next meal. :lol: (if you're right, too, btw)

Marco
26-02-2010, 19:41
Yes the ashes you can see in the Chimnea are from the Transparents he burnt earlier:)

...And you'll be sad to no longer get the thick end of that big rubber plug shlapped across your bare botty! :eyebrows: :eyebrows:

Marco.

jon1
26-02-2010, 20:11
...And you'll be sad to no longer get the thick end of that big rubber plug shlapped across your bare botty! :eyebrows: :eyebrows:

Marco.



Will the power lead you have now leave burn marks?:eyebrows:



jon

Marco
26-02-2010, 23:07
Dunno, but it's guaranteed to remove the most stubborn of skidmarks! :lol:

Marco.

Steve Toy
27-02-2010, 00:13
Yuk

jon1
27-02-2010, 17:48
Dunno, but it's guaranteed to remove the most stubborn of skidmarks! :lol:

Marco.




Ouch.:eek:... now thats got to hurt




jon

bigmarty
27-02-2010, 18:02
...And you'll be sad to no longer get the thick end of that big rubber plug shlapped across your bare botty! :eyebrows: :eyebrows:

Marco.


Dunno, but it's guaranteed to remove the most stubborn of skidmarks! :lol:

Marco.







Ouch.:eek:... now thats got to hurt




jon

I think a bucket of cold water is needed.......:lolsign:


Marty

jon1
27-02-2010, 18:50
I think a bucket of cold water is needed.......:lolsign:


Marty




Back on topic:lolsign:....I got my dsp 2.5 power cables today..three in total..well can you say the speakers have just falling of the wall with the bass:eyebrows:..put one into the amp ...the next one has gone it to the dac..and the third one has gone in the oppo-83..this upgrade is money well spent;)



jon

DSJR
27-02-2010, 22:18
I wonder if Mark can make IEC male to female with this wire....?

jon1
28-02-2010, 08:13
I wonder if Mark can make IEC male to female with this wire....?



He sells the male plugs on the web site....i do think it would be that hard to do:)




jon

Mike Reed
28-02-2010, 17:05
(I could be wrong, but) I think this thread is about Mark Grant's mains leads.

I need a longer i/c between pre. and power amp's, as my current Chord Anthem doesn't allow enough placement versatility.

Anyone any experience or thoughts on M.G.'s better i/cs? As Steve says, it's only postage to find out, but opinions and experience are worth garnering, regardless.

HighFidelityGuy
28-02-2010, 17:07
Marco did a review of the recently. Apparently they're rather good. :eyebrows:


(I could be wrong, but) I think this thread is about Mark Grant's mains leads.

I need a longer i/c between pre. and power amp's, as my current Chord Anthem doesn't allow enough placement versatility.

Anyone any experience or thoughts on M.G.'s better i/cs? As Steve says, it's only postage to find out, but opinions and experience are worth garnering, regardless.

jon1
28-02-2010, 17:17
Marco did a review of the recently. Apparently they're rather good. :eyebrows:



Yes they are...place another order for one today:eyebrows:




jon

Mike Reed
28-02-2010, 19:38
Marco did a review of the recently. Apparently they're rather good. :eyebrows:


Strange name for a cable ! Thanks, I'll try to find.

jon1
28-02-2010, 19:45
Strange name for a cable ! Thanks, I'll try to find.



Mark grant DSP2.5..power cable:)



jon

Mark Grant
22-03-2010, 21:31
The 'DSP' in the cable name Mark Grant DSP 2.5 power cable means Dual Screened Power 2.5 mm2 power cable.

Never easy to think of names or model numbers for products :)

Mark Grant
22-03-2010, 21:32
I wonder if Mark can make IEC male to female with this wire....?

You just have to ask :)

giorgino
23-03-2010, 01:34
Hi Mark -

I'm considering buying 2 lengths:
a) 1x 1m standard IEC/UK plug
b) 1x 1m IEC one end / US plug other end

Are you able to do item b) - if yes, would be grateful for a price? (PM if you wish)

Best regards

George

DSJR
23-03-2010, 18:39
Strange name for a cable ! Thanks, I'll try to find.

Mike, by comparison you'll find the Anthem rather bright and "splattery" I think. The HD1000's retain the life and crispness (if it's there in the source), but don't smear it up.

I have an XLR Anthem and i found it almost unlistenable after the beldens I made myself. The MG HD cables are better again than these latter, so not a scientific comparison, but I'm very happy.

Mark, please allow my bank balance to recover before i order any more. We have a possibly expensive porch repair/house front repaint this summer and this MUST come first..

giorgino
24-03-2010, 10:50
Just pulled the trigger on a couple of cables (1.5m lengths). Will give impressions in due course. For those with experience of it, does any one know what the average burn in time is for Mark's power cables?

Steve Toy
24-03-2010, 13:13
The cables hit the ground running and improve very slightly thereafter.

you should notice an instant and dramatic improvement straight out of the Jiffy bag.

Steve Toy
24-03-2010, 13:13
The cables hit the ground running and improve very slightly thereafter.

you should notice an instant and dramatic improvement straight out of the Jiffy bag.

alfie2902
28-03-2010, 22:35
I'm on the lookout for a mains cable for a step down transformer (240-100v) it's a figure 8 type connector.

Has anyone tried one of Mark Grants DSP 1.0 cables? It seems he doesn't do figure 8 in the DSP 2.5!

Is there any reason to use a thinner 1mm cable with the figure 8s instead of the 2.5mm used with IEC connectors?

Not sure how important this cable would be as it's only powering a TT power supply.

Cheers, alfie

HighFidelityGuy
28-03-2010, 23:04
I'm on the lookout for a mains cable for a step down transformer (240-100v) it's a figure 8 type connector.

Has anyone tried one of Mark Grants DSP 1.0 cables? It seems he doesn't do figure 8 in the DSP 2.5!

Is there any reason to use a thinner 1mm cable with the figure 8s instead of the 2.5mm used with IEC connectors?

Not sure how important this cable would be as it's only powering a TT power supply.

Cheers, alfie

Figure 8 connectors are only rated up to 2.5A, so it would be pointless for Mark to use conductors over 1mm as the extra capacity would never be needed. 2.5mm cables probably wouldn't fit in a fig 8 connector anyway. :)

I'm sure his DSP 1.0 cables are made from the same high quality copper and built to the same high standards as the 2.5, so I'm sure they will be good. I'm going to get one for my Blu-Ray player soon. :)

alfie2902
28-03-2010, 23:07
Figure 8 connectors are only rated up to 2.5A, so it would be pointless for Mark to use conductors over 1mm as the extra capacity would never be needed. 2.5mm cables probably wouldn't fit in a fig 8 connector anyway. :)

I'm sure his DSP 1.0 cables are made from the same high quality copper and built to the same high standards as the 2.5, so I'm sure they will be good. I'm going to get one for my Blu-Ray player soon. :)

Thanks for that Dave,

That about clears it up I guess I'll try one too :)

giorgino
30-03-2010, 02:30
Just wanted to post some notes on Mark's mains cables which arrived Saturday (yeehah!). I got 2 runs: 1 from wall to power bar and 1 from power bar to amp.

Initial impressions? Very nice. Very quiet too. I'm getting a significant gain in the bass and midrange with. Not very sure about treble detail but everything seems cleaner.

The service is superb. I had intended to use the second cable to go to the CDP but Mark made a mistake and sent me 1m runs. He's sending me replacement 1.5m so now I can play with the various lengths. I may go for the extra cables if there are additional improvements. It's an ill wind that doesn't blows some good.... :)

Will post more later - getting tired

Peter Stockwell
30-03-2010, 06:39
I just received 4 runs of 2.5mm DSP from Mark. That means all my components are on Mark Grant DSP cables. I'm well pleased with the result.

Overall, very natural sounding, clear, with no easily identifiable character.

The only thing I noticed is that I now have more time when listening to a song/piece to understand what the musicians/composer was striving for. In a similiar way that slow motion shows the detail of an action.

To make a reference to a discussion I had with Steve in a distant age, it makes everything more lisible. Or easier to hear and understand nuance.

Steve Toy
30-03-2010, 09:36
Lisible is good. What about scriptible - more involvement!?

Peter Stockwell
30-03-2010, 10:46
Lisible is good. What about scriptible - more involvement!?

I'll have to dig the discussion out of the archives ;) yeah, definitely. scriptible, involvement.

dave2010
31-03-2010, 16:39
I find this hard to take, but I'm not completely against it. I tend to be sceptical, and look for reasons. This isn't the only place I've seen claims made for cable or mains conditioning units, and I've definitely seen a claim by someone whose opinion I respect recommending a mains conditioning unit - though I don't know which one it was. I think it cost him around £200, and he didn't know why it worked, but asserted very strongly that it did.

My concern is that there is all the rest of the world - plus the house wiring to contend with, so what difference does a couple of feet to the wall socket make? Maybe the issue really is due to all the muck which gets onto the grid and into the domestic wiring these days, and this does interfere with signal levels. Here I'm not so sceptical at all, as I have found that the position of cables feeding into kit can make a difference. If I have to put a signal cable close to a mains cable, I usually try to put it at right angles, though that's not always possible. This definitely makes a difference with recording, and I guess it should also make a difference with other uses - though recording may be more sensitive.

Where claims are made for bass improvement, it's possibly because the SNR in the bass range is improved. Subjectively an increase in SNR will most likely manifest itself as louder bass.

I can't really see why there should be any difference in the treble and upper regions, but if there is noise there, then minimising it would also tend to emphasise the treble. I'll watch this with interest. However, I would think that it should be possible to make some cable by a DIY process for rather less than £50. My first approach would be to put a mains cable up copper pipe, and ground the pipe - I can't see why that shouldn't do the job. It should also be safe enough, though could be clad if there's any issue about using metal - which I can't see.

Peter Stockwell
31-03-2010, 17:31
I find this hard to take, but I'm not completely against it. ....

My concern is that there is all the rest of the world - plus the house wiring to contend with, so what difference does a couple of feet to the wall socket make? Maybe the issue really is due to all the muck which gets onto the grid and into the domestic wiring these days, and this does interfere with signal levels. Here I'm not so sceptical at all,...

Where claims are made for bass improvement, it's possibly because the SNR in the bass range is improved. Subjectively an increase in SNR will most likely manifest itself as louder bass.

I can't really see why there should be any difference in the treble and upper regions, but if there is noise there, then minimising it would also tend to emphasise the treble.

Dave,

Why shouldn't you be sceptical ?

As you have stated, all that cable from the substation, etc to you home, surely it's more important than the last few metres ?

Others grasp and explain the subject better than me, but there are several things to consider.


Overall impedance of the incoming cable connected to the electricity meter in your house.
Harmonics and other grunge coming in on the mains
That the cable acts as a low pass filter, reducing higher order harmonics, that can be measured in MhZ



The problem with mains conditioners & cables is that they sometimes "sit" on dynamics, even if they reduce unwanted noise.

Finally, I think that if treble is cleaner it's, paradoxically, less emphasized.

Anyway, the Mark Grant cables are very nicely made and don't cost silly money, and come with a 30 day money back guarantee. You have nothing to lose.

MartinT
31-03-2010, 17:54
The problem with mains conditioners & cables is that they sometimes "sit" on dynamics, even if they reduce unwanted noise.

That's the reason why I never recommend mains conditioners. I've yet to hear a filter that doesn't squash the dynamics in some way. I far prefer a mains regenerator that starts from a clean slate and generates a pure waveform, preferably with an output impedance lower than the raw mains so that high current demand is well catered for. Regenerators clearly sound better than raw mains to my ears with a variety of different systems.

dave2010
31-03-2010, 18:16
Dave,
Finally, I think that if treble is cleaner it's, paradoxically, less emphasized.

Anyway, the Mark Grant cables are very nicely made and don't cost silly money, and come with a 30 day money back guarantee. You have nothing to lose.Thanks. I perhaps agree with you about the treble, though it's difficult to describe. Years ago I deliberately tried mixing in (whitish) noise to signals, and I found that subjectively it had the effect of reducing the volume level. Small levels of noise aren't too obtrusive, but the apparent volume reduction I'm sure is real. I think this is because the ear/brain interprets volume as relative to background noise, so if you mix in farily smooth uniform noise, the interpretion is actually of a quieter signal.

I take your point about the MG cables, though I think that many might find £50 a significant amount these days.

Oddly I may try something rather more expensive first. I've been thinking of putting a PV (about 4 kW) array on my house, and the recommended system would include a Sunny Boy inverter, which I'm told actually delivers a better "mains" input than that from the grid. Has anyone else tried this?

dave2010
31-03-2010, 18:20
I've been thinking of putting a PV (about 4 kW) array on my house, and the recommended system would include a Sunny Boy inverter, which I'm told actually delivers a better "mains" input than that from the grid.PS: I think I'd have to listen in daylight hours to get the benefit though.

Dave Hewitt
31-03-2010, 19:15
Hi
I had the chance to try a Mark Grant mains lead on my ps3 today and ,can report that it made a worthwhile improvement over the stock item.
Cheers Dave.

Marco
31-03-2010, 20:04
Hi Martin,


That's the reason why I never recommend mains conditioners. I've yet to hear a filter that doesn't squash the dynamics in some way

I had the very same view (based on considerable experience of using bad ones) until I bought one of Anthony TD's filters ;)

I use it solely to isolate the digital noise generated by my transport and DAC from the rest of the system. It is *extremely* effective with no negative impact on the music whatsoever. I'll bring it with me next time I come down :)

http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/1346/marcofilter.jpg (http://img397.imageshack.us/i/marcofilter.jpg/)

Observe the hard-wired Mark Grant mains lead, used as the flex ;)

Marco.

Peter Stockwell
01-04-2010, 02:33
I had the very same view (based on considerable experience of using bad ones) until I bought one of Anthony TD's filters ;)

Observe the hard-wired Mark Grant mains lead, used as the flex ;)

Marco.

That thing looks industrial strength!

There's a company named Vibex marking distribution blocks, they don't claim to be mains filters, but vibration filters, on the incoming electricity! :scratch:

Have to try one.

twelvebears
01-04-2010, 06:15
Hi Martin,



I had the very same view (based on considerable experience of using bad ones) until I bought one of Anthony TD's filters ;)

I use it solely to isolate the digital noise generated by my transport and DAC from the rest of the system. It is *extremely* effective with no negative impact on the music whatsoever. I'll bring it with me next time I come down :)

http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/1346/marcofilter.jpg (http://img397.imageshack.us/i/marcofilter.jpg/)

Observe the hard-wired Mark Grant mains lead, used as the flex ;)

Marco.

I've got Anthony working on a 4-way one for me at the moment. Planning to use it for my CDP, DAC and SB3 and possibly my amp too depending on results. Part of me still needs convincing that it won't dampen the dynamics of the amp, but Anthony makes very fine amps so if he's used one for 5 yrs....

giorgino
01-04-2010, 09:51
Just an update: Mark's replacement cables arrived the following as he promised and I had the chance to try out them out on the a) powerbar b) amp c) CDP. Having had a listen, I'm finding that on all 3, there may be a "too much of a good thing" effect. While, very nice and the system is sounding much "quieter" and to my ears, perhaps, a bit too "polite" with 3 cables. This is all very subjective but I do prefer my BPT unshielded mains lead on the CDP with the Mark Grants on the powerbar and amp. Haven't tried the swapping in / out of the various components combos but will do so in due course.

Whether this effect is a) all in my mind b) Mark's cables adding a "sonic quality" to the mix c) the cables are too effective and I miss the "noise" is really irrelevant IMHO. The interesting thing is that the cables can be used to "tune" the system and as such, should be part of the audiophile's "toolbox".

Of course for those who don't believe that after all the 1,000's of miles of electricity grid, the sound can't possibly be changed by that last couple of feet of cable, I'm not to try to counter that argument. Just try it out. If you don't hear any difference, then great, you've saved yourself a whole bunch of cash. Spend it on music. ;)

electric beach
01-04-2010, 09:52
I've got Anthony working on a 4-way one for me at the moment. Planning to use it for my CDP, DAC and SB3 and possibly my amp too depending on results. Part of me still needs convincing that it won't dampen the dynamics of the amp, but Anthony makes very fine amps so if he's used one for 5 yrs....

Hi Steve

As Marco says, seperating the digital components from your amp has benefits greater than those achieved by the amp running from a filtered socket, but combined. I run all my components from a Vertex distribution block with internal vibration dampling filters, but with an additional Vertex filter plugged in between the digitals and amp to seperate them. Works a treat - and I can assure you that I get enhanced dynamics! :eek:

Marco
01-04-2010, 10:38
You only want to filter the digital sources in your system (as they are a bad source of noise), not amps, otherwise you will definitely have a sat-on sound, as a result of raising impedance on the mains supply.

However, I've found that plugging my Time Step PSU into the filter also reaps similar rewards as does doing so with the transport and DAC - just keep amps away from it :)

Marco.

DSJR
01-04-2010, 11:58
I use a 6A rated filter for each source independantly, although the AVI and Croft preamps don't need it. The CD player does though - those 1541 based players are dreadfully "noisy."

Power amps would need something huge and no doubt expensive, although big transformers at input and output of valve amps should negate this need, as they self filter I believe. A ferrite or three should be all and although I still use them, they're fortunately unnecessary in this location..

Ali Tait
01-04-2010, 16:09
Marco,can I ask how much the filter is?

Marco
01-04-2010, 17:55
Hi Ali,

Best to send Anthony a PM :)

Marco.

Ali Tait
01-04-2010, 18:18
Send me one!

Ian Walker
01-04-2010, 19:39
Hi
I had the chance to try a Mark Grant mains lead on my ps3 today and ,can report that it made a worthwhile improvement over the stock item.
Cheers Dave.

Yes agreed on that Dave i think we both got a suprise with how big an improvement the lead made. This was on the new slim ps3 with fig 8 connector,i actually think it made as much of difference as the filter.

Ian.

anthonyTD
02-04-2010, 08:18
You only want to filter the digital sources in your system (as they are a bad source of noise), not amps, otherwise you will definitely have a sat-on sound, as a result of raising impedance on the mains supply.

However, I've found that plugging my Time Step PSU into the filter also reaps similar rewards as does doing so with the transport and DAC - just keep amps away from it :)

Marco.
hi all,
marco is very fortune to have a very good [low impedance] mains supply with good earth bonding feeding his system and he uses valve power and pre-amp so the most affective way to use the filter in his system would be in the source equipment as stated, however, some people using solid state power amps and pre-amps may also find that it works well with those too depending on how good/bad the mains supply to your home is and the amount of noise your other home electricals are injecting into your supply.
A...

James G
15-06-2010, 16:34
Yes agreed on that Dave i think we both got a suprise with how big an improvement the lead made. This was on the new slim ps3 with fig 8 connector,i actually think it made as much of difference as the filter.

Ian.

Hi Ian or Dave,

I have a 60GB PS3 with a regular IEC connector. I've been thinking about upgrading the stock power cable. Could you describe what areas were improved and your impressions? Specifically I'd like to know if it can improve the bluray movie experience. Thanks.

Mark Grant
18-06-2010, 13:03
Hello James,

Probably best if you try one in your system if you are interested.

Can post to Tokyo for about £8 airmail, you can send it back if you dont like it.

Certainly makes a difference in many systems although most people here are two channel.

I visited Ian in February for a listening session and certainly made a difference with Ian's old style PS3 (with IEC connector) in Ian's system.
(This was before Ian bought a PS3 slim)

My website only accepts orders with UK postcodes so if anyone outside of UK would like to buy anything send me a message here or an email via my website and I will send a price with airmail delivery.

Mark.

Ian Walker
18-06-2010, 17:22
Hi Ian or Dave,

I have a 60GB PS3 with a regular IEC connector. I've been thinking about upgrading the stock power cable. Could you describe what areas were improved and your impressions? Specifically I'd like to know if it can improve the bluray movie experience. Thanks.

Hi James,
Sorry for the delay in getting back to you.
I have both a 80gig and a new 250gig slim ps3. Both these have been improved with Marks cables soundwise. I would desribe this as a tidying up of the overall presentation,getting rid of a graininess in the treble ,more clarity to the midrange and a bit more solidity or clout to the bass...yes those stock mains leads really are crap:).
Mark does offer a no-like send back option so you cant loose really.

Ian.

James G
19-06-2010, 18:36
Thanks for the feedback guys. Mark, I've sent you a PM. :)

Ian Walker
20-06-2010, 20:52
Your welcome James,hope they do the trick for you.

Ian.

James G
13-07-2010, 14:11
I've been playing around with the MG lead for a couple of weeks now. Mine are terminated with Furutech plugs. After playing around with several different configurations they have replaced the cable that was on my dac that costs twice as much.
Very satisfied with this purchase.

Marco
13-07-2010, 16:24
Hi James,

Nice one - glad they're hitting the spot. Any chance of a bit more detail as to how you perceive the improvement the DSP 2.5s have made in your system compared to what you were using before?

Also, which mains leads have the Furutech-modified DSP 2.5s replaced?

Cheers! :cool:

Marco.

James G
14-07-2010, 01:22
Hi Marco,

It's going to be hard to describe since I lack the experience of many of the others. The cable it ended up replacing was an S/A Labs High-End Hose 3.5 terminated with Furutech, and not because it is the worst cable I have, but more of a matter of synergy and personal tastes.

Through experimenting I found out that the S/A Labs cable is fast and bright compared to the others I have tried (which is not many). When I first plugged in the MGs I thought something might be wrong, like something was missing. Well, something WAS missing, and I think that something was that almost imperceptible electronic background noise. That invisible force that keeps your volume and sanity low.

After giving the MGs and my ears some time to adjust I learned that I was hearing deeper into the mix, so to speak. They were not was forward sounding as the S/A Labs, but there was more detail there. Or at least I could notice it more. That's not to say they are mellow either. The Transparents are mellower IMO. The S/A Labs went to my PS3 for watching movies and games since that hard and fast sound is actually a good match for that.

So now my favorites are the MGs and the Transparents due to the cleanness of the sound. The former has a little more force than the latter as far as I can tell, but I like the way the Transparent sounds on my PP amp, so it is going to stay for now.

chris@panteg
15-09-2010, 11:05
Finally got round to ordering a 2.5 mains lead from MG , not sure whether to sue it with the Yamaha or my Phono stage ? probably try both .

see what happens !

chris@panteg
29-09-2010, 09:35
Well the Mark Grant cable is rather good .

I found it made the biggest difference to my Yamaha DVDS2700 , bringing more body and focus to instruments and greater clarity to vocals .

A better perceived sense of depth and overall a more vivid listen .

I also tried it with my Phono stage , but i am unhappy with my vinyl playback at the moment , i think my DL160 is starting to sound a bit dull and has lost its sparkle and to be frank the Yammy blows my Techie away at the moment ' this can't be right or can it ?

MartinT
29-09-2010, 10:47
That's a worry, Chris. Have you checked all parameters (tracking weight, azimuth etc.)? How many hours do you have on the DL160?

Peter Stockwell
29-09-2010, 14:21
I also tried it with my Phono stage , but i am unhappy with my vinyl playback at the moment , i think my DL160 is starting to sound a bit dull and has lost its sparkle and to be frank the Yammy blows my Techie away at the moment ' this can't be right or can it ?

Dunno, but things I've noticed on my audiophool journey

Digital done right sounds bloody great.
Digital equipment is much more sensitive to mains nasties than analogue equipment.
I've had some MC cartridges go "off song" over time, to the point that I coudn't listen to them anymore.

jbloggs
29-09-2010, 19:45
Possibly a bit of a naff question this, but what components would you use Mark Grant's (http://markgrantcables.co.uk/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=45_18&products_id=69) power cable on, the likes of pre/power/integrated amps, DAC's etc?

Peter Stockwell
29-09-2010, 19:52
Possibly a bit of a naff question this, but what components would you use Mark Grant's (http://markgrantcables.co.uk/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=45_18&products_id=69) power cable on, the likes of pre/power/integrated amps, DAC's etc?

Everything, but start at the sources.

Ali Tait
29-09-2010, 19:52
Anything that will take a power cord I'd say!

jbloggs
29-09-2010, 20:13
Everything, but start at the sources.


Anything that will take a power cord I'd say!

Thanks for your replys...

chris@panteg
30-09-2010, 09:51
That's a worry, Chris. Have you checked all parameters (tracking weight, azimuth etc.)? How many hours do you have on the DL160?

Hi Martin

Yes i actually rechecked everything , azimuth, and especially HTA .

As for how many hours:scratch: well i would guess about 700-800 perhaps , in nearly 2 years of use , the thing is the bass is starting to sound a bit plummy and a lack of sparkle and clarity , overall its still not bad ' i just think its starting to sound a bit tired .

As an interim measure i am thinking of getting budget MM , like a Nagaoka or AT95e just until next year , as my wife would kill me if i bought a 33ev or OC9:(

Marco
30-09-2010, 10:06
Hi Chris,

That sounds like a worn stylus, pure and simple, so nothing to be unduly worried about.

As an interim measure until you can afford an OC-9, or something like that, I'd definitely go for one of the new Nagaokas, as I think it would be a fabulous match with your SME - in fact, in many ways you might prefer it to the Denon :)


http://www.musonic.co.uk/cartridges-nagaoka-c-4_22.html?zenid=1efabaj7jo36emniitepi8d0s4

The MP-110 is a fabulous little cartridge that punches way above its weight (much better than the AT95e, IMO), but if you could stretch to the 150 (perhaps by selling someone your DL-160 who's willing to buy it as a donor for a re-tip?) then I can confidently predict you'll not miss the Denon one iota!

Marco.

chris@panteg
30-09-2010, 10:42
Hi Marco

I think you could be right on the nose there , i think i will try a Nagaoka, looking at the MP110 especially :)

chris@panteg
30-09-2010, 10:55
Thinking about the Mark Grant Mains lead , the reason why i think it makes a difference is...

Good connection and good conductitivity 'also low impedance and good passive filtering of mains nasties , at the same time not increasing inductance , which i am told (the chap from the missing link) is a problem when screening a cable using braided metal.

is this why Mark uses plated copper ? as opposed to the majority of other fancy mains cables on the market.

Alex_UK
30-09-2010, 11:17
Having gone to a NOS Nagaoka MP-15 (thanks again DSJR) from an AT95e in a 3009 S2 Improved arm on the Garrard the Nagaoka MP-110 will I suspect be a great choice - in my setup it is much better in every way (bass, clarity, soundstage & surface noise) than the AT.

If it was me, though - I'd snap this up NOW! - MP11 With Boron Cantilever (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NAGAOKA-MP11-BORON-CARTRIDGE-NR-MINT-STYLUS-BOXED-/220673572056?pt=Turntable_Parts_Accessories&hash=item33612b7cd8#ht_2919wt_1137)

Clive
30-09-2010, 11:59
Having gone to a NOS Nagaoka MP-15 (thanks again DSJR) from an AT95e in a 3009 S2 Improved arm on the Garrard the Nagaoka MP-110 will I suspect be a great choice - in my setup it is much better in every way (bass, clarity, soundstage & surface noise) than the AT.

If it was me, though - I'd snap this up NOW! - MP11 With Boron Cantilever (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NAGAOKA-MP11-BORON-CARTRIDGE-NR-MINT-STYLUS-BOXED-/220673572056?pt=Turntable_Parts_Accessories&hash=item33612b7cd8#ht_2919wt_1137)
Please don't use snap and cantilever in the same post.....:)

Peter Stockwell
30-09-2010, 12:25
MP11's: I've got a couple of those if anybody is interested.

Alex_UK
30-09-2010, 12:30
Please don't use snap and cantilever in the same post.....:)

:lol: Sorry Clive, that was a bit of a slip, wasn't it? Oh damn, there I go again! :D

Marco
30-09-2010, 12:30
If it was me, though - I'd snap this up NOW! - MP11 With Boron Cantilever (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NAGAOKA-MP11-BORON-CARTRIDGE-NR-MINT-STYLUS-BOXED-/220673572056?pt=Turntable_Parts_Accessories&hash=item33612b7cd8#ht_2919wt_1137)

I totally agree with Alex. Hit that 'Buy it Now' button NOW, Chris - the Boron version is bloody brilliant!! :eek:

Marco.

chris@panteg
30-09-2010, 22:18
Having gone to a NOS Nagaoka MP-15 (thanks again DSJR) from an AT95e in a 3009 S2 Improved arm on the Garrard the Nagaoka MP-110 will I suspect be a great choice - in my setup it is much better in every way (bass, clarity, soundstage & surface noise) than the AT.

If it was me, though - I'd snap this up NOW! - MP11 With Boron Cantilever (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NAGAOKA-MP11-BORON-CARTRIDGE-NR-MINT-STYLUS-BOXED-/220673572056?pt=Turntable_Parts_Accessories&hash=item33612b7cd8#ht_2919wt_1137)

Thanks Alex

i missed it ' alas at work all afternoon and evening:(

Marco
30-09-2010, 23:54
Drats, I should've emailed you.... :doh:

Marco.

Alex_UK
01-10-2010, 08:13
Drats, I should've emailed you.... :doh:

Marco.

I did PM Chris, but must have been too late. :(

Peter Stockwell says he has a couple - are they the Boron version Peter? Still might be worth a go anyway Chris even if not as the MP-110 is the updated MP-11 and I suspect there is not a huge difference in performance relative to the likely cost differential.

Marco
01-10-2010, 09:07
Hey, you win some, you lose some... Some utter biatch yesterday beat me to an off-the-shoulder appliqué dress on EBay. It was pastel blue and had pistachio tulle flowers sown on the neck, and just simply divine....

Gutted, I was! :(

Marco.

chris@panteg
01-10-2010, 09:51
Guy's ' idon't think there is anything wrong with my DL160

I found the culprit to be both the Mark Grant and Isoconitik mains cables ,which i have been using with my Trichord for the last 3 weeks .

Today i quickly put the bog standard lead back on and...

Got to go , more later but my Vinyl is back on song and i'm stunned at this or should i be.

Clive
01-10-2010, 10:38
Wierd, I'm comfortable with the idea that shielded and other exotic mains cables don't make a difference with a particular system or component but to make the sound worse.....WTF?

Joe
01-10-2010, 10:50
Wierd, I'm comfortable with the idea that shielded and other exotic mains cables don't make a difference with a particular system or component but to make the sound worse.....WTF?

If it can make an audible difference, there's no reason why one person can't view that difference as a deterioration rather than an improvement.

Clive
01-10-2010, 10:54
If it can make an audible difference, there's no reason why one person can't view that difference as a deterioration rather than an improvement.
I'm not contesting what Chris has heard but for a sensibly made mains lead (as MGs are) to sound dull vs a standard mains lead is not at all what I'd expect. I could understand no difference or greater clarity but dull is a surprise.

Peter Stockwell
01-10-2010, 12:49
I'm not contesting what Chris has heard but for a sensibly made mains lead (as MGs are) to sound dull vs a standard mains lead is not at all what I'd expect. I could understand no difference or greater clarity but dull is a surprise.

Could be question of vocabulary, could be also that the plugs needed unplgging and replugging, could be that they are dull ...

Clive
01-10-2010, 12:54
Could be question of vocabulary, could be also that the plugs needed unplgging and replugging, could be that they are dull ...
Could be oxidized plugs but I'd have thought the MG lead is likely to be relatively new so unless it's been stored in a swimming pool or just outside for the latter part of the summer....

Barry
01-10-2010, 13:35
Hey, you win some, you lose some... Some utter biatch yesterday beat me to an off-the-shoulder appliqué dress on EBay. It was pastel blue and had pistachio tulle flowers sown on the neck, and just simply divine....

Gutted, I was! :(

Marco.

That would have been me! Fret not Marco, it wasn't your size.

Regards

Marco
01-10-2010, 13:48
Oh, you tart! :lolsign:

Marco.

DSJR
01-10-2010, 14:09
On a phono stage, there "shouldn't" be a huge difference in mains lead choice as the current drawn should be insignificant compared to a power amp for example.

My MG mains lead 1m long replaced a short, home made 16A MK - soldered IEC cable and I thought the MG to improve the sound a bit. I've certainly no need or reason to want to take it out of the setup.

One thing I think that many of us should do is to get a sparky to check the mains sockets for loose wiring screws (I won't say for us to do this as I don't wish to be held responsibe for any electrocutions). This in itself could be equal to a substantial and far more expensive upgrade elsewhere and especially if the house-wiring is more than twenty years old and not been disturbed in that time.

chris@panteg
03-10-2010, 11:23
Sorry for taking soo long on coming back to this chaps.

Right to get a true idea of whats happening' to coin John Major ' its back to basics' and i have removed 2 isokinetik mains leads from my system and using bog standard mains cables .

My Techie/309/DL160 is sounding fecking marvelous:) nothing wrong here.

I put the MG mains cable on my Timestep psu , its if anything a very subtle improvement ,certainly no worse , my feeling is its the isok' cables which dull the system ' rolling off the top end and bigging up the bass with the murkiest midrange this side of a Russ Andrews noise sniffer.

Next i am going to try the MG with my phono stage and then the Yammy again leaving the Isok cables well out of harms way.

Marco
03-10-2010, 11:48
Ah, I had a feeling that the Isokinetik mains leads were the culprit! The MG DSP 2.5s just don't alter the sound in the way you described....

Going back to basics is a good idea, Chris. There is nothing 'special' about Mark's mains leads other than the use of solid engineering principles and quality parts/materials.

The sonic signature of the stock mains leads could also have been factored into the equation by the equipment manufacturer (this often happens with gear from small, specialist, manufacturers - certainly Naim do it, for example), hence why you noticed such a considerable improvement by reinstating them.

I've never rated Isotek, Isokinetik or Kimber (entry-level) mains leads or MusicWorks, amongst a whole host of other commercial varieties, as their built-in filtering (from their style of construction) produces the bloated sound you describe, so like you say with cables, keep it simple, stupid! :)

Marco.

chris@panteg
03-10-2010, 12:24
Hi Marco

Yes i feel a bit stupid to be honest , and to think i was blaming the poor little DL160 and even doubting the 1210 .

The strangest thing happened while playing 'Hope' Hugh masekela on CD i had an Isok on my 740 you see but half way through listening to it i actually disengaged the direct button on the amp and turned the treble up to max:scratch:.

Ammonite Audio
03-10-2010, 14:23
If anyone feels like bringing some Mark Grant mains leads (particularly those fitted with Furutech connectors) along to the London Bake-Off Show at th end of the month, I would be very interested to hear how they compare with my own Vertex leads and whatever Ben is planning to bring along.

chris@panteg
04-10-2010, 08:53
Right ' after a fair bit of listening using stock mains leads.

I reinserted the Mark Grant to my phono stage , and it sounds absolutely fine:),
there is a subtle improvement ' a sweeter, less coarse presentation .

Its marginal but i can say that the Mark Grant has a positive effect on my system ' the Isokinetik cables however appear to be the culprits for the dulling effect i noted , a bit of a lesson learned perhaps but you have to try these things out ' .

chris@panteg
04-10-2010, 09:34
To add a little more to this , i planted my new copy of ' Exile ' on the techie and it now sounds as i remember it ' not dull and muddy but fairly bright and a bit compressed ' but that's how it sounds , i can now hear Mick ' hollering in his usual loutish way.

Before he seemed lost somewhere at the back of the studio , very strange effect.

Marco
04-10-2010, 12:33
Hi Chris,


Right ' after a fair bit of listening using stock mains leads.

I reinserted the Mark Grant to my phono stage , and it sounds absolutely fine,
there is a subtle improvement ' a sweeter, less coarse presentation .

Its marginal but i can say that the Mark Grant has a positive effect on my system...


You're not going to obtain a massive sonic improvement over stock leads using them with a phono stage, as it isn't drawing much current, nor will it generate much in the way of electrical interference/noise, and thus 'infect' the rest of the components in your system plugged into the same distribution block, as happens with digital equipment (such as CDPs, DACs and computers), so therefore the noise rejection effect of the Mark Grants in that application won't be fully realised.

Are you using Mark's mains leads on your digital equipment and amps? If not, I strongly recommend that you do, as you should notice a far greater improvement there, particularly if you go for the Furutech-upgraded variety! :)

Come to think of it, what distribution block are you using?


the Isokinetik cables however appear to be the culprits for the dulling effect i noted , a bit of a lesson learned perhaps but you have to try these things out ' .

Indeed. We all learn from our mistakes (and hopefully use the experience to our future benefit).

It's the filtering effect of these leads that 'sits' on dynamics, slowing transient attack and masking detail, thus dulling the sound, as you have unfortunately just experienced.

It's one of the reasons why you should never use filters on a distribution block or indeed anywhere in your system unless they have been properly designed by someone who really knows what they're doing - and I don't mean Russ Andrews and his ilk! ;)

So steer clear of this kind of stuff, as it totally KILLS THE MUSIC and stick to bespoke mains products which have been built solely on solid engineering principles by people who make them for the right reasons.

Marco.

colinB
04-10-2010, 19:47
Curious, do you find a difference using a good power lead on the timestep psu?

Marco
04-10-2010, 19:50
Yes, Colin, but not as much as I there is with my CDP, DAC and amps, for reasons explained! :)

Marco.

colinB
04-10-2010, 19:55
Sorry, bit slow. I get it now , current load:mental: Thanks Marco.

chris@panteg
04-10-2010, 23:36
Hi Marco

Quite right of course , and i stopped using a filter mains block some time ago ! currently using a Living voice cable to Duraplug 4 way (no led) the cable is very thick well twisted stuff terminated to an MK toughplug ' like the MG's .

It does not have any braided type of screen , i will try it out again with my Yamaha but it looks like the Mark Grant is staying and the Isok stuff will go to power my 2 TV's .

Another thing Marco , i may still try out that Nagaoka MP110 or even the 150 as i think its time for change perhaps an Xmas pressie from the wife;).

chris@panteg
05-10-2010, 09:50
Well Marco

I tried the MG cable on my Yamaha again ' and yes this is where you really notice a difference , again with standard cable on the amp .

Using a DVD audio disc ' REM ' Automatic for the people , with the standard leads it sounded very good of course but i noticed a bit of coarseness and the bass was a bit light and lacking in punch and weight ! but still very enjoyable.

Enter the MG cable and a much sweeter overall balance with more space around everything and now real weight and punch in the bass , so much more get up and go .

I'm so glad i put all the stock cables back in place , its now so easy to hear the difference the MG makes , the good news for me is my phono stage does not sound any worse with the supplied cable ' it does have its own very good psu though so must be fairly imune to mains quality .

I think people are right to be sceptical about the difference's mains cable makes , and to proceed with some caution ! there is a lot of bollocks out there.

The Mark Grant cable though is well worth investigating ! at the price its great value for money , although i have to say i wouldn't want spend any more than £50-60 , i find it hard to believe that you would want to spend any more or look for better .

In last months Hifi world ' David Price reviewed a furukawa mains lead at £1495 , he thought it was the best he had heard! but not to worry about it if you can't afford it.

I won't:)

Marco
05-10-2010, 11:24
Hi Chris,

Excellent stuff! I'm glad you're happy now with your system and can hear the real benefit of the Mark Grants when they're used in a more critical application.

You've no idea how much experimenting I've done over the years with this sort of stuff, so I like to think that I know what I'm doing! :)


The Mark Grant cable though is well worth investigating ! at the price its great value for money , although i have to say i wouldn't want spend any more than £50-60 , i find it hard to believe that you would want to spend any more or look for better.


Fair enough, and I can understand that. However, having used both the stock DSP 2.5 and the latter upgraded with Furutech plugs, I can tell you that the sonic improvement the Furutech-modified cables bring is not in any way subtle! :eek:


In last months Hifi world ' David Price reviewed a furukawa mains lead at £1495 , he thought it was the best he had heard! but not to worry about it if you can't afford it.


I'm glad you brought this up (it's Furutech, incidentally, not Furukawa), as I too read the same article and found it rather interesting reading, but perhaps for different reasons. Allow me to explain.....

Yes, the MG stock cables are only £50, and the Furutech upgraded ones are £350, but let me put it this way. Here is the £1,495 Furutech Alpha power cable, reviewed in this month's HFW (albeit with an American-style AC plug) :


http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/2221/furutechpiezopowerfluxp.jpg (http://img8.imageshack.us/i/furutechpiezopowerfluxp.jpg/)


And here is Mark's Furutech-modified DSP 2.5 power cable at a 'mere' £350:


http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/3126/dsp25furutechfi1363fi50.jpg (http://img94.imageshack.us/i/dsp25furutechfi1363fi50.jpg/)


What if I were to tell you that the above performs to the same sonic standard as the Furutech Alpha at some £1145 less?

Would Mark's cable then seem like an unbelievable bargain? SPPV (what we value most on AoS) yet again at its best!

Well it is, because *that* is simply how much MORE you pay in hi-end audio for products with a 'desirable badge' ;)

Don't be fooled into thinking that because the Furutech cable looks 'thicker' that it's more heavy duty, as most of the extra thickness is the result of the use of a rubber-type insulator. The actual conductor diameter inside is the same in both it and the Mark Grant: 2.5mm (11AWG).

The secret to their truly superb performance is in the unique vibration-damping design of the Furutech IEC connector and mains plugs (you can read about this if you Google for it), which are used on BOTH the Mark Grants and on the Furutech Alpha, although of course at vastly different price points.....

Food for thought, eh!!

Marco.

DSJR
05-10-2010, 11:36
Going back to filters, I use them, but one on each component needing it (turntable, CD player and 33 preamp) NOT one feeding everything! I read some useful advice, I think from Ben Duncan, that the filter (if used) must be TEN TIMES the rated consumption of the equipment used with it. Mine are 6A rated for the CD and turntable and a Croft built 4A one for the 33 preamp, which I use for headphone duties. The MG mains lead feeds the multi-IEC RS sourced block and does a fine job.

Marco
05-10-2010, 11:47
Indeed. If filters are designed properly, Dave, they can work very well indeed.

The Tube Distinctions one I use (purely to filter the digital 'hash' generated by my CDP and DAC and isolate it from the rest of my components, shown below) is superb, in fact it is the only filter I've ever found that's worked without it 'sitting' on the sound:


http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/1346/marcofilter.jpg (http://img202.imageshack.us/i/marcofilter.jpg/)


The mains flex (MG DSP 2.5) has now been upgraded with a Furutech FI-1363 13A mains plug and the filter with Furutech FP-1363-S (R) 13A sockets, which has raised its performance still further.

The trouble is, the market is flooded with so much over-priced (and in some cases cheap and sonically degrading) bullshit, in terms of filters, that it's difficult to separate the wheat from the chaff.

Marco.

MartinT
05-10-2010, 13:31
I like and use mains noise filters, but not the inline kind which, as Marco says, kills dynamics. I'm talking about the small self-contained plug-in modules that remove noise from the mains around the house. I use a mixture of Russ Andrews Silencer, Isotek IsoPlug and PS Audio Harvesters and the resultant mains feed to my system is already very quiet and RFI-free even before the Power Plant does its thing.

http://www.uberphon.co.uk/Russ%20Andrews%20Silencer.jpg

http://www.hificables.co.uk/ProductImages/fullsize/isotek-isoplug-m-500.jpg

http://a248.e.akamai.net/pix.crutchfield.com/products/2007/681/h681NH-f_MTp.jpg

Marco
05-10-2010, 13:37
Hi Martin,

I've not tried any of those, but see no reason why they shouldn't work, unless they increase impedance on the mains supply.

Marco.

MartinT
05-10-2010, 14:13
unless they increase impedance on the mains supply.

Hi Marco, no they can't do that. All they do is filter mains-borne RFI and hash by shorting them down to neutral or earth. Effectively, to the mains voltage they look like an open circuit so don't do anything (if they did they would get very hot), and to high frequency signals they look like a short circuit and are absorbed.

The RA and IsoPlug effectively short the noise to neutral/earth. The Harvester is a little more clever and converts the noise to flash an LED. This makes for interesting observation as the more the LED flashes the more noise there is on the mains. At some times of the day the Harvester appears to do nothing, at other times (say, mid evening), it flashes away at a rate of several a second. A very handy visual guide to the state of your mains. Every audiophile should have one!

Marco
05-10-2010, 14:36
That's cool and makes sense, Martin - noted! I might try a Harvester, as its effect could be valuable :)

How much mullah are we talking?

Marco.

MartinT
05-10-2010, 15:00
They don't seem to be available in the UK at the moment. US price seems to be $399 each, although I paid a lot less than that and have two. Review here:

http://www.stereotimes.com/acc041007.shtml

chris@panteg
08-10-2010, 09:54
Marco

Thank's for correcting me about Furutech not furakawa ' lol

I have been enjoying listening to cd using the MG cable on my Yamaha , i thought i would put the Isokinetik lead back on my 740a ! i noticed perhaps a slight softening of the sound ,and the does seem a touch plummy its not quite as bad as i 1st thought though.

I think maybe there is more to it ' variable mains quality which is unavoidable and interference from a suspect DAB radio which hums a lot ! and tends to get left on , also although downstairs is on the same ring main as my set up? .

MartinT
08-10-2010, 11:40
I think maybe there is more to it ' variable mains quality which is unavoidable and interference from a suspect DAB radio which hums a lot ! and tends to get left on , also although downstairs is on the same ring main as my set up? .

Put an IsoPlug in the socket next to it.

chris@panteg
09-10-2010, 11:35
Hi Martin

Yes i have thought about trying one of those , if you say it works then that's good enough for me.

I did a check on my consumer board and discovered something alarming ! i have 2 ring mains , and for some strange reason the upstairs ring ' go's to one double socket in my kitchen at the far corner :scratch: and connected to this is our fridge freezer , so would one of these isoplugs help at all here .

Ali Tait
09-10-2010, 11:49
It's often the case that you will have separate rings for upstairs and downstairs. No control over what previous owners have bodged up though!

MartinT
09-10-2010, 11:56
Not ideal, Chris, but an IsoPlug will definitely help.

SquireC
16-11-2010, 16:54
Just got some of these and hooked them up to CD, Pre-Amp Power Supply and Power Amp.

Gobsmacked.

I've had a variety of cables over the years and these are just bang on the money ....... in my system at any rate.

System never sounded so good. Wide soundstage, sweet treble, excellent bass, lovely mid-range ...... everything just sounds RIGHT !!

They've certainly sprinkled the magic dust on my kit!

Still experimenting ..... Lingo next ...

What I did find was that ...... I use a LINDY mains conditioner extension lead from the wall socket ...... was that the MG's are superb plugged into the conditioner.

I also have an ordinary extension lead plugged into the LINDY .... and while the benefits of the LINDY should be there with this ext lead .... with an MG plugged into the ext lead, the sound became bright and distorted.

Just made me realise that when you are trying mains leads to see if they make a difference, what distribution you have can make the best leads sound crap.

But a new, delighted MG user here. VERY HIGHLY RECOMMENDED.

chris@panteg
17-11-2010, 09:20
The Lindy is the same as a Tacima i think ? in all but name , very interesting .

HighFidelityGuy
17-11-2010, 10:35
The Lindy is the same as a Tacima i think ? in all but name , very interesting .

Yep, Lindy are licensed by Tacima to make that particular conditioner. There's some info about it on the Lindy website. They're both identical. The Lindy version has Tacima stamped on the back. The funny thing is you can often buy the Tacima version cheaper than the Lindy one. Amazon is usually cheapest. :)

SquireC
17-11-2010, 17:19
Yes, Lindy and Tacima are the same. I don't like to put 'boxes' between the wall socket and my kit (in principal) but reviews suggested it was something that was a 'no brainer' in terms of improving system sound. So I thought - give it a go.

I was surprised at the difference it made .... a bit like adding MG mains leads in but on a smaller scale. Must have dirty mains here. Not saying it works for everyone, but for £40 ..... worth a try.

The MG mains leads improved the system sound a by a margin again.

chris@panteg
18-11-2010, 00:31
Yes ' the MG dramatically improved my Yamaha DVDS2700 , even over other HQ mains leads :)

Though i found my Trichord phono stage seems imune to mains quality ! probably because of the NCPSU .

DSJR
18-11-2010, 08:57
Some products are immune, some aren't I've found. Both my AVI and Croft preamps seem immune, yet my CD player needs a high-current filter/conditioner on its supply. Both pairs of ATC actives I owned liked ferrites on their 16A mains leads (Mark Grant wasn't around then), the bass seemingly more articulate with the ferrites in place.

Darren Cotter
06-02-2011, 20:22
Hello All.

I’d just like to say a big thank you to Mark and Tracey for their prompt service and excellent communication when supplying me with a DSP 2.5 mains cable. The item arrived in Jersey only two days after ordering it, plus the dreaded VAT had been duly removed.

I shall be getting DSP 1.0s for my Blu Ray, DVD Recorder, and Sky HD, and another 2.5 for the TV.

Regards,

Darren

Reid Malenfant
06-02-2011, 20:26
I shall be getting DSP 1.0s for my Blu Ray, DVD Recorder, and Sky HD, and another 2.5 for the TV.
I think you'll be suitably amazed Darren, i know i was :eyebrows: Only fitted to my TV & BD player so far but the difference in picture quality from switch on was very noticeable indeed. Again things appear to improve with use, only about 10 hours on them so far :cool:

E2A:- Darren, would you mind popping into the welcome area of the forum & introducing yourself? Thanks in advance ;)

Darren Cotter
11-02-2011, 22:45
Hi All,

I've just ordered two DSP 1.0s for my Blu Ray and Beresford Caiman+ DAC. This should improve not only my DVD/Blu Ray pictures, but also my CD sound, as I use the Blu Ray as a CD transport.

Regards,

Darren

Spectral Morn
11-02-2011, 23:32
Yes, Lindy and Tacima are the same. I don't like to put 'boxes' between the wall socket and my kit (in principal) but reviews suggested it was something that was a 'no brainer' in terms of improving system sound. So I thought - give it a go.

I was surprised at the difference it made .... a bit like adding MG mains leads in but on a smaller scale. Must have dirty mains here. Not saying it works for everyone, but for £40 ..... worth a try.

The MG mains leads improved the system sound a by a margin again.

Having looked at your posts so far I see you have as of yet not popped into the Welcome section of the forum to say hello, tell us a bit about yourself, taste in music and audio system.

If you could do that, that would be great as we love to Welcome new members properly and find out all about them.


Regards D S D L