Honky Tonk

[Beechwoods]

Well, I've been enjoying a bit of Country Christmas lately, and Johnny Paycheck's 'Honky Tonk Christmas' has been on heavy rotation. And 'Close Down The Honky Tonks' is a big favourite of mine from the Flying Burrito Brothers. I did some reading on the origins of Honky Tonk (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honky_tonk) and it's another of those terms with interesting origins...

Musically it has a history stretching right back, maybe as far as Tin Pan Alley. I suspect that we have some Jelly Roll Morton fans here (Chris?). So what can we say about Honky Tonk. I'm up for some educatin' :)

[The Grand Wazoo]

Interesting Nick.
Here we go with the genres again! - Sometimes they're unavoidable aren't they?
Actually, I'd say honky-tonk, ragtime & boogie-woogie are all the same thing, but claimed by different camps: Country/Jazz/Blues

Ragtime came out of the music played in brothels. But all three rely more on feel for a good groove than intricate harmonies or anything technically 'correct'.

I'm not big on piano music but I like a bit of Liszt solo piano music every now & then. Some of the blues I like revolves around the piano, and piano blues tends not to get so much attention as guitar blues. Jelly Roll Morton recorded a lot of stuff! But my taste in jazz is more Mingus than Morton.

So I could recommend some good stuff to investigate, but it would be mainly blues based.

The obvious starting place, I suppose would be Scott Joplin's piano rags, which of course everybody knows at least some of.

Dr John - 'Dr John Plays Mack Rebenack'
is a great album, I was playing it just the other day. Spotify doesn't have the album per se, but does have 2 albums of the sessions.
http://open.spotify.com/album/1l5bmN0eqPQ33XeHjScwek
http://open.spotify.com/album/4AGzOX0mGLTCw0rqH0iiUX

You could say that someone like Fats Domino was like a Gerald Scarfe caricature of Professor Longhair but Dr John's piano playing is much more faithful to his style.
Professor Longhair - 'Mardi Gras In New Orleans'
http://open.spotify.com/album/6jmv5Nls6iyIBOHe3PomAa


Memphis Slim - How does 'Memphis Slim & the Honky-Tonk Sound - (Piano Solos With Vocal)' grab you?
http://open.spotify.com/album/09FQu4F6ZazuLV1B5IlCiw

or 'Memphis Slim & the Real Boogie Woogie'
http://open.spotify.com/album/4TQFTCi2BbvnCDqJbLTkwx


Floyd Dixon - There's not much of his stuff on Spotify, but I think he was great! If you listen through the singing and other instruments on some of the tracks from 'Cow Town Blues' you get the idea.
http://open.spotify.com/album/7LSUAK98BmEuGVZ4BKRw85

I don't know too much Jelly Roll Morton, but he had some stuff recorded by Alan Lomax for the Library of Congress, which to me is interesing in itself, as all that 'song collecting' stuff is fascinating to me.

[Rare Bird]

These are good takes:

Honky Tonk Train Blues
http://open.spotify.com/track/6H3bY2NLdETF9qmJJjkDLo

Barrelhouse Shakedown
http://open.spotify.com/track/5wjgu5qYENFTGzKopeV8e8

Mapleaf Rag
http://open.spotify.com/track/03Op85EYJxB3lT8gBQMBtj

[The Grand Wazoo]

Funny you should say that, Andre.
I wasn't going to mention Emerson Lake & Palmer myself, but seeing as you have, I'll relate the following tale after all:
When I was 12 years old my school music teacher asked the class to listen to three pieces of music & rank each one in order of preference. They were all 'Fanfare for the Common Man' but the first was an orchestral version with Copland's arrangement, next was of course, ELP & the third, was Jelly Roll Morton & his Red Hot Peppers. .............Well, this is who I seem to remember it being though I looked on the W's earlier & couldn't find a reference to it.
The entire class except me preferred ELP. I probably own more ELP albums than the rest of them put together & I don't own a single recording by Jelly Roll Morton - what's that all about then?

[Rare Bird]

what's that all about then?

Your a closet ELP fan

:lol:

:sofa:

[Beechwoods]

Interesting stuff Chris! And I never knew ELP had a Honky Tonk influence. I like the idea that a form of music could arise from the limitations of tuning and piano condition in bars and brothels!

I'm familiar with a little of Dr John's early 70's stuff - Mardi Gras Day. I didn't realise he was of the boogie woogie / honky tonk / ragtime style. I guess this is where genres breakdown!

Anyway, I've got lots of good listening to do now. Thank you!

[The Grand Wazoo]

Interesting stuff Chris! And I never knew ELP had a Honky Tonk influence. I like the idea that a form of music could arise from the limitations of tuning and piano condition in bars and brothels!

The knackered piano thing is a common theme through all this early US music. The guitarists could take their instruments with them, but the pianists had to be flexible enough to adapt to the instrument that was made available to them as the piano at each juke joint or brothel was in a different state of disrepair!


I'm familiar with a little of Dr John's early 70's stuff - Mardi Gras Day. I didn't realise he was of the boogie woogie / honky tonk / ragtime style. I guess this is where genres breakdown!

Most folks who know of Dr John think of him from that period - 'Gris Gris', 'I Walk on Guilded Splinters', etc & that's kind of guitar-centric music. Then he got a bit more funky when he worked with Allan Toussaint in the early-mid 70's. I suppose 'Dr John Plays Mack Rebenack' would be a 'back to your roots album'.

[Rare Bird]

And I never knew ELP had a Honky Tonk influence.



Hell of a lot of different styles on the ELP Works Vol I&II Albums

http://open.spotify.com/album/3Pfpx5SyniyGT0SMMwJdYV

Can i just explain Works I as you will not realised with it being all crammed together.

It was a double album
Side One: Keith Emerson Work (Disc.1,Track.1)
Side Two: Greg Lake Work (Disc.1,Track.2 - 6)
Side Three: Carl Palmer Work (Disc.2,Track.1 - 6)
Side Four: EL&P (Disc.2, Track.7 - 8)

You'll soon realise why i hate the album

[Barry]

Actually, I'd say honky-tonk, ragtime & boogie-woogie are all the same thing, but claimed by different camps: Country/Jazz/Blues

Ragtime came out of the music played in brothels. But all three rely more on feel for a good groove than intricate harmonies or anything technically 'correct'.

Would agree with you there Chris, though it can be argued that the music terms: 'boogie woogie', 'rock and roll', 'honky tonk' and even 'jazz' all refer to the sexual act and are, as you say, brothel slang. There seems to be a New Orleans connection between them.

Regarding Jelly Roll Morton, there is:

Jelly Roll Morton and his Red Hot Peppers, 'The Kings of New Orleans Jazz', (mono 1959), RCA International INTS 5092,

Jelly Roll Morton, 'The Library of Congress Recordings (Eight volume set)', (mono 1938), Swaggie Records, Australia, MONO S1312.

(This means I have more of Jelly Roll Morton than Keith Emerson!)

Nick, some other boogie-woogie/barrel-house/piano rag records you might like are:

Scott Joplin, 'The Entertainer - 20 Golden Greats', 1986 Deja Vu DVLP 2060,

Mead Lux Lewis, 'Barrel-House Piano', 1968 Storyville 671 208.

Happy listening,
Regards

[Beechwoods]

Thanks Barry. This musical history is fascinating...

[The Grand Wazoo]

Somehow, I knew you'd have something to say on this one, Barry!
So you have the Lomax recordings then?

[Barry]

Somehow, I knew you'd have something to say on this one, Barry!
So you have the Lomax recordings then?

Haha - though I'm no authority, it might make an interesting research project for AoS.

I only have Volume 2 of the Library of Congress recording. I'm reluctant to seek out the others as there is more discussion and talk rather than piano playing. Also the recording quality is understandably not brilliant.

Not sure if Fats Waller was mentioned. His stuff is readily available on the budget labels with reasonable recording quality. I have 'Twelfth Street Rag', 2002, Midnite Jazz and Blues Collection MJB125.

[The Grand Wazoo]

Have you read this?

http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/a6/4b/5f309833e7a05579c7e61110.L._SL500_AA240_.jpg

If not I'd recommend it unreservedly.