Ultrasonic Record cleaners

[Zoidburg]

Just wondering if anyone has any experience of using an ultrasonic record cleaner on their vinyl?

I have a collection of almost 1000 albums on vinyl now and I currently use a Disco-antistat wet cleaner from time to time when I feel the need to give something a freshen up.

However recently I noticed that a DIY ultrasonic cleaner is available at a reasonable price point, I noticed it after a few people posted some favourable reviews of it on a facebook vinyl & turntable enthusiasts page.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CleanerVinyl-One-Attachment-Ultrasonic-Cleaning-of-One-Record-at-a-Time-/322362704769?hash=item4b0e508381:g:6fkAAOSw241YVZ-w

This link isn't the actual item I have bought but it is very similar (mine comes complete as a kit with the ultrasonic tank and spindle motor and can do 5 or 6 disks at a time I think) and all for less than £200 delivered which seems like a bit of a bargain to me. Fingers crossed it works as well as I hope. il update in a few weeks when Ive had chace to fully get to grips with it (economy delivery from Poland to Uk advises up to 2 weeks delivery time).

[Cycleallday]

I will start by saying I have no experience of cleaning vinyl with an ultrasonic cleaner so please note my following comments may have no relationship to what you want to do with records.

I do however have experience of using these cleaners in an engineering environment and would make the following observation. Although the cleaning machine itself does not have any abrasive mechanism the process it facilitates can indeed cause abrasion of the surface material. When we have cleaned engine carburettors it quickly become obvious that the alloy metal surface losses its smooth polished finish and becomes prone to corrosion. Close examination of the surface shows the finish has become 'rougher' than it was and on repeat applications the situation quickly becomes worse. I now never use such cleaners on metal and prefer to use a soaking process.

With these cleaners it is also important to use the correct cleaner designed for the product being cleaned - just using water is of no use. Forget ebay and look at commercial suppliers of the machines and the various cleaning additives they also offer.

On doing some research on ultrasonic cleaning it appears this abrasion is well know - see the next para for a bit more detail.

"Some components, such as those manufactured of highly-polished aluminum, can quickly be damaged by ultrasonic cleaning action due to cavitational erosion of the parts, a condition where the ultrasonic scrubbing action actually erodes the surfaces of the parts. When these parts are cleaned in a standard ultrasonic cleaner, the surface of the parts appears mottled, and covered with a pattern of small comet-like spots. These "comets" are created when the ultrasonic activity essentially drills holes in the surface of the objects being cleaned. The head of the comet is the location of most intense ultrasonic activity, while the tail of the comet represents the direction that the fluid was blasted away during the cleaning action. The distance between neighboring "comets" and the degree of damage produced will be dependent upon the ultrasonic frequency in use."

Vinyl is not metal so the above may have no relevance but it is worth considering.

Mel

[mikeyb]

I looked at these ages ago you can buy them on Amazon or eBay without the motor but I didn't have the skill to build the motor so gave up on the idea.

IF he sold the motor only I might be tempted to have another look.

One setup like this that I saw had an adapter to clean 4 or 5 at a time 😉

[Zoidburg]

I looked at these ages ago you can buy them on Amazon or eBay without the motor but I didn't have the skill to build the motor so gave up on the idea.

IF he sold the motor only I might be tempted to have another look

You can get such a kit on ebay I think......

[mikeyb]

You can get such a kit on ebay I think......
Thanks, I stopped looking once I'd bought an okki nokki but they still look useful and doing more than one at a time would be a huge bonus, I had forgotten about them until your post came up.

Might look again 😀

[mikeyb]

I looked at these ages ago you can buy them on Amazon or eBay without the motor but I didn't have the skill to build the motor so gave up on the idea.

IF he sold the motor only I might be tempted to have another look.

One setup like this that I saw had an adapter to clean 4 or 5 at a time 😉
Actually that eBay listing IS for the motor only, you'd need to add the ultrasonic bath separately.

[Ali Tait]

Just wondering if anyone has any experience of using an ultrasonic record cleaner on their vinyl?

I have a collection of almost 1000 albums on vinyl now and I currently use a Disco-antistat wet cleaner from time to time when I feel the need to give something a freshen up.

However recently I noticed that a DIY ultrasonic cleaner is available at a reasonable price point, I noticed it after a few people posted some favourable reviews of it on a facebook vinyl & turntable enthusiasts page.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CleanerVinyl-One-Attachment-Ultrasonic-Cleaning-of-One-Record-at-a-Time-/322362704769?hash=item4b0e508381:g:6fkAAOSw241YVZ-w

This link isn't the actual item I have bought but it is very similar (mine comes complete as a kit with the ultrasonic tank and spindle motor and can do 5 or 6 disks at a time I think) and all for less than £200 delivered which seems like a bit of a bargain to me. Fingers crossed it works as well as I hope. il update in a few weeks when Ive had chace to fully get to grips with it (economy delivery from Poland to Uk advises up to 2 weeks delivery time).

Have you a link to the actual one you've bought please?

[mikeyb]

Have you a link to the actual one you've bought please?
Yeah that would be cool I'd like ike to know too 😊

[shane]

What happens when you take the disk out of the bath, covered in fluid with all the dirt suspended in it, ready to stick back onto the disc as the fluid evaporates?

[Cycleallday]

What happens when you take the disk out of the bath, covered in fluid with all the dirt suspended in it, ready to stick back onto the disc as the fluid evaporates?

You quickly wash anything that comes out of a U/S cleaner immediatley to remove the cleaning fluid and any debris. Generally the cleaning fluid does not last too long before needing to be changed if you follow the instructions.

[Audio Al]

That looks expensive for a small motor kit

[Zoidburg]

I cant find a link to the exact product now, but il post up some further info as soon as I can and when it arrives il give it a review on here to.

[Zoidburg]

Look at this on eBay http://www.ebay.pl/itm/302235130304

Hopefully this link will show the item I've bought.

Ultrasonic record cleaning device is simply constructed based on ready-made components available in DIY stores, and is designed for vinyl record lovers who are not satisfied with mechanical
cleaners such as “Knosti”. The cleaner is an independent construction using low-cost components, based on years of experience
in cleaning and revitalizing old and damaged vinyl records. It is perfectly suited for the hobbyist, and
is not intended for professional use.

The kit consists of: ultrasonic cleaner, power lead, drive system,
axle with spacers and metal clamps, axle base and the manual.
The cleaning fluid is not included.

Power supply 230 V. For United States and other countries with 110 V needs a power converter (110V - 230V) available on Ebay.
Important ! Converter must give 100W output power or stronger
Three months warranty, service and support on-line

[Yomanze]

Ultrasonic cleaners, hmm, I used to clean diamonds with them. Sometimes larger bubbles form because of cavitation, they then implode and send jets of water and shockwaves, among other effects. I would be vary of big bits of dirt getting heavily cavitated and it "blowing out".
Here's how the effects can look in more extreme environments:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bf/Cavitation.jpg/640px-Cavitation.jpg

[alphaGT]

I have not used one, but have studied them quite a bit. And read many articles and a few YouTube videos of their use. Perhaps that would shed some light for you? To see it done on video is most revealing of the process.

But reading up on the very expensive units for sale. ($3000 US) they claimed to have done great research to determine how strong to make the ultrasonic devise. What frequency, etc. to be most effective on vinyl without damaging them. If you take one made for jewelry it could damage your vinyl in short order from what they say. But the reviewer swore it made such fantastic improvements to his vinyl, he was quite used to cleaning his records with a vacuum unit, but the ultrasonic unit went way beyond. And found detail in the music he has never heard in records he has depended on for review for years. He could not say enough good things about it.

But he did show that the used fluid that he drained from the machine was quite dirty, and even had tiny black flakes in it, that he supposed were vinyl? So, where they came from was a bit of a mystery. While they concerned him, he sure couldn't hear any negative effects from it. I wrote and suggested he collect a few and heat them with the tip of a soldering iron, if they melted, then they were vinyl, if not, they were dirt. But I never heard back to tell if he heeded my words.

The ultrasonic units do not dry your records, and they must air dry in a rack for a time before you can play them. If I had a vacuum unit near by, I'd be tempted to vacuum them too. Just so I could play it now. It did require changing fluids often, and the felt rollers and other parts that were expendable. So it was more expensive to operate than a regular vacuum cleaning machine.

Personally, I'd be worried that a DYI unit may not have the proper frequency, intensity needed for vinyl, and prolonged use could have negative effects. And also I get such great satisfaction from my Pro-Ject RCM I really do not feel the need to upgrade. But, this reviewer swore it was better. I guess if I had that kind of money to throw around, I would own one, but as it stands, I can live without.


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[Mike Adams]

Ive read a lot about these however never seen one until the other day when Mark from the Missing Link/Vinyl Passion put a LP of mine through his audio desk.

It was a fairly new repressing of 'Moanin' and I was shocked how much better it sounded afterwards...

Given the cash Id buy one...

[Barry]

I have not used one, but have studied them quite a bit. And read many articles and a few YouTube videos of their use. Perhaps that would shed some light for you? To see it done on video is most revealing of the process.

But reading up on the very expensive units for sale. ($3000 US) they claimed to have done great research to determine how strong to make the ultrasonic devise. What frequency, etc. to be most effective on vinyl without damaging them. If you take one made for jewelry it could damage your vinyl in short order from what they say. But the reviewer swore it made such fantastic improvements to his vinyl, he was quite used to cleaning his records with a vacuum unit, but the ultrasonic unit went way beyond. And found detail in the music he has never heard in records he has depended on for review for years. He could not say enough good things about it.

But he did show that the used fluid that he drained from the machine was quite dirty, and even had tiny black flakes in it, that he supposed were vinyl? So, where they came from was a bit of a mystery. While they concerned him, he sure couldn't hear any negative effects from it. I wrote and suggested he collect a few and heat them with the tip of a soldering iron, if they melted, then they were vinyl, if not, they were dirt. But I never heard back to tell if he heeded my words.

The ultrasonic units do not dry your records, and they must air dry in a rack for a time before you can play them. If I had a vacuum unit near by, I'd be tempted to vacuum them too. Just so I could play it now. It did require changing fluids often, and the felt rollers and other parts that were expendable. So it was more expensive to operate than a regular vacuum cleaning machine.

Personally, I'd be worried that a DYI unit may not have the proper frequency, intensity needed for vinyl, and prolonged use could have negative effects. And also I get such great satisfaction from my Pro-Ject RCM I really do not feel the need to upgrade. But, this reviewer swore it was better. I guess if I had that kind of money to throw around, I would own one, but as it stands, I can live without.


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Good post Russell.

They interest me, but I would be like to know if professional record archives and libraries use ultrasonic cleaners.

The only commercial unit I know of comes from Germany and is very expensive (well too expensive for me!).

[alphaGT]

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/turntables-audio-desk-vinyl-cleaner-pro-new-model-trade-ins-welcome-2017-02-17-analog-92307-apple-valley-ca#


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[alphaGT]

I tried To post a picture but it didn't work. Anyway I think you are referring to the Audiodesksysteme, from Germany. Yea it's $3700 US! They are right proud of it! I'd have to own many thousand records to justify that price. You could call around and find a library that may own one, but I suspect that even one time use would be cost prohibitive. The consumables are quite expensive too, so it costs a lot to operate. And I just can't get with the idea that it is drip dry. At least I know the dirty water has been removed by my vacuum machine. And while these reviewers claim it to be so great, I do wonder just how much better is it over a good vacuum machine?


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[StuN]

Coincidentally, a similar discussion running on AudioKarma with some tech stuff on pages 2 and 3:-

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/aluminum-foil-test-for-us-cleaning-see-pix.760087/

[sbank]

This thread and the accompanying article which it links to give all the gory details including chemicals, recipe for mixing and storage, etc. I posted details about my DIY vacuum rinsing station if you want to pursue rinsing after the ultrasonic cleaning. Results are tremendous, far superior to those I got using a VPI 16.5 vacuum machine and all the top selling fluids/brushes available for that including enzymatic cleaners.

Warning the thread is full of details. It takes a couple of reads to figure out what chemicals to source, and I have no idea where in UK any of them are available to non-commercial purchasers. In practice, once you get it all together, it's very easy to use and results are amazing. I can clean 12 LPs in ~40minutes (i.e. 3 cycles of 10 minutes with 4LPs at a time, then rinsing of 4LPs while the next batch runs in the U/S machine). Total cost of machine, vacuum brush attachment & all chemicals ~$500 USD with enough to clean >5000 LPs

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/rushton-s-diy-approach-to-ultrasonic-record-cleaning-published-by-posit?highlight=rushton

[Zoidburg]

Managed to get the Ultrasonic cleaner set up today. The instructions are well laid out and really its very simple to get up and running with it in 10 minutes or so. The records are placed on a spindle with a jam jar lid spacer between each of them and then tightened and locked in position with a small securing screw. Its slightly heath robinson but that's to be expected and in fairness the instructions advise that its for the hobbyist record lover!

Once the spindle of records is placed in the ultrasonic bath (details / rations are given for you to mix the cleaning solution) and then its simply a matter of setting the desired operation time (recommended at 300 seconds a pass). In operation is very quiet, quiet enough that I can have it on in the same room whilst having the system on.

I've only cleaned about 10 records and so far only played 2 of them. The first test was an old 70s Elton John LP Tumbleweed Connection chosen as the first "test" disk as its always sounded pretty terrible with loads of pops cracks and hiss (even after a couple of cleans with a disco-antstat). However after about 5 minutes in the ultrasonic and allowing it to dry on a rack it now sounds like an almost new disc, a good 80% of the noise and crackles are gone, im going to give it another run through the machine in a bit hoping this will improve things further.

2nd up was an equally aged copy of DSOTM inherited from my parents collection and probably never cleaned (they certainly would never of and I don't remember ever giving it much more than a brush). Again after 6 minutes in the ultrasonic bath it sounds really decent. There's the odd pop but its much much better than I remember it before, seems that there's a bit more top end detail on offer now too........blimey!

So far I cant fault it...........il report back when ive run a few more LPs through it.

[sbank]

\http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ultrasonic-Vinyl-Record-Cleaner-Vinyl-Stack-ULTRA-Sonic-Spin-Kit/161402849405?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D2%2 6asc%3D20140122125356%26meid%3D8aa71814795c4a9689a 8ac88f5b129ea%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D3%26 mehot%3Dag%26sd%3D322362704769

This is the tank attachment I use. It looks to be far more solidly built than the plastic one in OP's post. Incremental cost isn't too much IMHO. After 100 LPs I can say I'm very happy with it, and know a handful of others with it who are also all pleased.