Shure M3D problems - help?

[montesquieu]

Just messing around with an M3D.

First of all can anyone confirm the wiring schema? (or take a pic?)

Second I'm getting hum, not alleviated by lifting the arm ground at the phono stage (this on any arm I try it on and I have three here). Which is why I'm thinking my wiring might be wrong.

Any hints appreciated.

It have to say it's sounding rather nice. This is one I picked up with a Jico stylus.

[Barry]

The Shure M3D was my first stereo cartridge - bought out of fustration, some 47 years ago, at not being able to procure easily a Bang & Olufsen SP6. The Shure was OK but it was quickly superceeded by an M55E.

I think the connections are as follows: when the cartridge is mounted in a headshell, the upper left pin is the left channel, and the upper right pin is for the right hand channel. The corresponding ground connections are the two lower and wider spaced pins (i.e. towards the cantilever side of the cartridge body).

https://tse3.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.M1245791eaf9dc505cd0a7795a3efe71do0&pid=15.1&H=175&W=160&P=0

If you transpose the two ground connections the cartridge will still work, but you will get hum problems.

[walpurgis]

I had a few of those and M7D's. They may be OK with a stylus upgrade I guess, but I didn't like them in 'standard trim'. I preferred the slightly later M75 and M91 models. I actually liked the M91ED more than the V15 and V15II.

[montesquieu]

Fab! cured the hum :) Much appreciated.

It's ok on the main rig actually although it's destined for the Ortofon AS-212-equipped Lenco in the study. I have in a heavy Fidelity Research headshell total is SPU-type weight over 30g which is ideal for this sort of low compliance beasie. J7 did me a really cool sleeve-weight that slips on top of the standard counterweight that enables me to use SPU-weight assemblies on the AS-212. It has a Jico stylus, sounds best about 5g tracking force!

[montesquieu]

I had a few of those and M7D's. They may be OK with a stylus upgrade I guess, but I didn't like them in 'standard trim'. I preferred the slightly later M75 and M91 models. I actually liked the M91ED more than the V15 and V15II.

I have M44, M75 and M91 models here as well. Several M44s are fitted with a range of '78' styli for different eras (.25, .32, 35). The M91 I think has an original eliptical (I haven't tried it to be honest) but the M75 I think has some generic thing on it (not Shure branded).

[walpurgis]

I have only one Shure cartridge left if I recall. An M75/6S iI think. The one without the plastic bodywork and just a spring steel retainer/mount. Unusually it has a brand new and very rare Goldring M75E copy stylus fitted. Goldring marketed Shure pattern styli for a while. They were allegedly of very high quality, at least as good as the Shure orginals. I confess, I've never tried this cartridge out. When I fancy using a non MC, I bung an ADC on.

[Marco]

Nice one, Tom. The M3D is a whole lotta fun! I've had a few. It reproduces music with a joie de vivre, bass authority and boogie factor, along with a beguiling 'valve-like' midrange, which is a complete anathema to most modern cartridges... It's the SPU of the MM cartridge world :)

Best used for reproducing your vintage jazz and classical albums, and allowing you to hear them with the requisite richness and musicality. And yes, it likes mass - LOTS of it! So that headshell you're proposing to use will be ideal. High VTF is also a prerequisite.

The common criticism aimed at the M3D is one of mis-tracking and sibilance on 's' sounds, but I guess the Jico stylus is helping to eliminate that. Anyway, we need some pics of the beastie in action, lest I fire off one of these....

:worthless:

;)

Marco.

[montesquieu]

:worthless:

;)

Marco.

Here you go - it's currenty on the Lenco though I can see it migrating into the main system on occasion. For all it's 34g at the headshell I think it sounded even happier on a heavy arm like the 12in Ortofon RMG-309 Limited I have on the Thorens. This is clearly a world away from the featherweight trackers of the 70s. No sibbilance in either setup BTW. Tracking at 5g in both.

I really must get round to painting that top plate at some point ....

http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x440/montesquieu61/M3D-1_zpsmdwuzey0.jpg

http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x440/montesquieu61/M3D-2_zpsrn7dkygu.jpg

[montesquieu]

Can see the 11g weight/thick spacer on the headshell - enables the M3D to straight on in place of an SPU and gives me the 5g tracking weight.

http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x440/montesquieu61/M3D-3_zpsis3vrihi.jpg

[Barry]

I have M44, M75 and M91 models here as well. Several M44s are fitted with a range of '78' styli for different eras (.25, .32, 35). The M91 I think has an original eliptical (I haven't tried it to be honest) but the M75 I think has some generic thing on it (not Shure branded).

Do the different stylus radii you quote (.25, .32, .35 (units?)) correspond to different eras of 78s, or to different manufacturers?

[montesquieu]

Do the different stylus radii you quote (.25, .32, .35 (units?)) correspond to different eras of 78s, or to different manufacturers?

Eras. Essentially the groove got smaller as time passed. Most of the factory '78' cartridges out there are for late stuff (late 40s-50s) so use a 0.25mil (as opposed to the 0.7mil of later mono and more or less all stereo LPs, or 1.0mil of early microgroove mono LPs). Earlier 78s used thicker grooves than this. I have some from the early 20s, and quite a few from the 1930s. Essentially I use the size that's quietest in the groove.

[Barry]

Thanks for that Tom.

Between posting my question and receiving your reply, I had a look on Google and came across this specialist site: http://www.charm.rhul.ac.uk/history/p20_4_6.html.

They talk about stylus radii of between 1.8 and 4 thousand of an inch (mil).

[montesquieu]

Thanks for that Tom.

Between posting my question and receiving your reply, I had a look on Google and came across this specialist site: http://www.charm.rhul.ac.uk/history/p20_4_6.html.

They talk about stylus radii of between 1.8 and 4 thousand of an inch (mil).

Yes it seems Americans talk about thousands of an inch (using the term mil) but of course in metric mil means something else entirely!

The designations are from Expert Stylus where I got the styli. Just looking he they are actually marked 3.x CT (!) don't quite know what that means at all.

http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x440/montesquieu61/78styli_zps4plyqvmp.jpg

[montesquieu]

Can see the 11g weight/thick spacer on the headshell - enables the M3D to straight on in place of an SPU and gives me the 5g tracking weight.



Deleted the previous picture as it had left and right channels reversed - this is the correct wiring for one of these in a standard headshell.

http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x440/montesquieu61/SHURE_zpsvntx2ien.jpg