New toy - Hashimoto SUT

[farflungstar]

Well after what seems an eternity stuck in customs my new and first ever SUT is in the house, the Hashimoto HM-X - built by fellow member neskor.

I have to say build quality is superb. Listening to it now and it compliments the Allaerts beautifully but will say more after listening this weekend. Unfortunately had to drop in a crappy interconnect until I pull the trigger on a new loom - but sounding great so far.

I actually bought it to use with the the Miyajima but it developed a problem and am waiting for a replacement from Hugo - top bloke and service.

As an aside - I freakin love my new Truth linestage!

Here's some porn...

http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w483/farflungstar/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20170205_142654_631_zpspgonrvga.jpg

http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w483/farflungstar/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20170205_142631_596_zpsejbdoxiu.jpg

[paulf-2007]

Is that cart a good match for the step up Adrian?

[farflungstar]

The Allaerts or the Miyajima?
Adey

[farflungstar]

The Allaerts likes to see 100ohms and works great straight into the Vida but I have say that through the SUT there is a new fullness to the bottom end that wasn't there. The rest of the frequency response seems unchanged, though until I've listened more I won't commit.

The Miyajima should work beautifully with the Hashimoto - it was my reason for buying it. But I'll have to wait till next weekend to know when I'll have a Shilabe and Kansui to play with.

[neskor]

finally is here :eek:

[farflungstar]

Yes, thank you! Arrived with no damage - looks and sounds great! Will say more after listening over the weekend.

[montesquieu]

Lovely!

[Jimbo]

Very nice and beautifully finished. I expect it will sound rather good.

[carruthersesq]

Looks a lovely piece of kit. Well done that person who put that together. And as you say sounds great also. Great result.

[RothwellAudio]

I have to say build quality is superb.
I don't actually like that style of construction. They look great in photos without any interconnects but having the inputs and outputs on the top plate makes them impractical and ungainly in use. Of course, that's my opinion, and I know some people do like that style of construction - it's just not for me.

[Ammonite Audio]

I find myself often placing SUTs face down, to have easy access to the connectors, so this type of construction would be just the thing for me, mainly since the properly screened interconnects that sound best to me (the old and now sadly defunct Epiphany Atratus III) are relatively stiff and unwieldy, so having them plugged in vertically is helpful.

I have to say that this one looks very smart indeed and, importantly, large enough and presumably stable enough to stay where it's put.

[farflungstar]

Yes Hugo it's very very heavy, very. The main casing looks to be 3mm steel and the walnut surround (darker and richer than the foto) is also heavy. It sits on large rubber isolation feet and is immoveable.

There is only the faintest hum if you press your ear to the speaker.

My initial impressions with the allaerts was the bass - enormously deeper (something the allaerts has always lacked), but the top end was not as refined as im used to (the HMX is flat to 100khz) - but this was on the lower setting (3-7ohm cart internal) and tonight I'll try the highest setting at 12-40ohm. The allaerts is 10ohm.

I also had to use a shit interconnect which I've never used because it is not so clean in the top end and this might be the culprit. Am stuck between ordering new cables, RFC Pluto + mercury, VDH integration, or Townsend Fractal. I hate buying cables blind.

[paulf-2007]

The Allaerts or the Miyajima?
Adey
The Allaerts obviously, that's the one you are using in your report:rolleyes:

[farflungstar]

Ok so I'm listening on the high gain setting... Good news and bad news...

The top end is superb, ultra layered and refined, sweet and spacious. Bass has lessened but not too much.

However, hum is now a problem, between tracks im aware of from the listening position as a subtle background hum. Turning up the volume to higher than I normally listen increases it noticeably. So... How can I lessen it? It's situated well away from anything electrical, has the ground from arm attached as well as a ground running to the phonostage....

Any thoughts....

[flapland]

Have you tired disconnecting the ground from the amp or arm or even just ground the arm on the amp. Also try your interconnects the other way round as some ground one end but not the other.

[Dubster68]

Its like a piece of Art:D

[montesquieu]

Have you tired disconnecting the ground from the amp or arm or even just ground the arm on the amp. Also try your interconnects the other way round as some ground one end but not the other.

Agree with this advice. Generally speaking SUT hum is either a ground loop (which can usually be fixed by wiring changes - disconnecting the earth lead works surprisingy often) or some kind of pickup from a nearby transformer. If you pick the unit up and move it around and the hum level changes then it's the latter - there's usually a sensible place for it. Shielded leads are useful in this case.

[farflungstar]

Solved. I was using DNM Reson between SUT and Vida. Changed for Cardas golden presence - totally gone! Bloody cables a bit short though. But functional!

[flapland]

Glad it was sorted so quickly and easily as hum can a sod.

[farflungstar]

Update - the allaerts prefers the low gain setting, there's a nice depth and texture from mid down and less spotlighting of the extreme top end - just a tad more natural to my ears. Percussion is sublime on the high gain setting but the mid is robbed of a little body.

To be honest I suspect it is happier into the Vida @ 100ohms (100ohms is the makers recommendation) but will swap back tomorrow and compare. The Hashimto was bought for the Miyajima which will be here next week along with its older brother - and I'm confident they will be a perfect match.

[Barry]

What are the two gain settings for the Hashimoto HM-X?

Given the data for the Allaerts MC1B, a x10 gain (20dB) ought to be fine.

[farflungstar]

Turns ratio 15-23db or 30-29db.

[Barry]

Turns ratio 15-23db or 30-29db.

The x15 (29dB) setting will be fine.

x30 is too high and loads the cartridge with 52 Ohm, which is far too low a value. (The Allaerts have a coil resistance of ~ 23 Ohm.)

[farflungstar]

Guess that's why it sounds more natural on the lower gain. Thanks for confirming why.

[RothwellAudio]

... but this was on the lower setting (3-7ohm cart internal) and tonight I'll try the highest setting at 12-40ohm. The allaerts is 10ohm.
According to this page http://users.telenet.be/jallaerts/welcome.htm the coil impedance is 22 ohms.


Generally speaking SUT hum is either a ground loop (which can usually be fixed by wiring changes - disconnecting the earth lead works surprisingy often) or some kind of pickup from a nearby transformer. If you pick the unit up and move it around and the hum level changes then it's the latter - there's usually a sensible place for it. Shielded leads are useful in this case.
Yes, picking up the SUT and moving it around can be very effective. It isn't just the proximity to mains transformers that is the issue, it's also the orientation towards mains transformers. Just turning a SUT through 45 degrees can reduce hum considerably.


Solved. I was using DNM Reson between SUT and Vida. Changed for Cardas golden presence - totally gone!
Screened cable is a must between a SUT and a phonostage.


Update - the allaerts prefers the low gain setting...
To be honest I suspect it is happier into the Vida @ 100ohms (100ohms is the makers recommendation) but will swap back tomorrow and compare. The Hashimto was bought for the Miyajima which will be here next week along with its older brother - and I'm confident they will be a perfect match.
The Allaerts only needs a turns ratio of about 1:10. Any more is unnecessary.
The Miyajima will need more like 1:20.


What are the two gain settings for the Hashimoto HM-X?
Given the data for the Allaerts MC1B, a x10 gain (20dB) ought to be fine.
Yes, I agree, 1:10 ought to be fine. Generally speaking, lower turns ratios give better performance than higher turns ratios, so go go for the lower one if in doubt.


Turns ratio 15-23db or 30-29db.
The lower turns ratio would definitely be my preferred option for the Allaerts.
For Miyajima my recommendation would fall between the two options you have. Best just try them both and see which you prefer.

[farflungstar]

Thanks Andrew.

[farflungstar]

I don't think it looks too bad Andrew, not that ungainly...


http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w483/farflungstar/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20170228_154146_zpsnqmw9jly.jpg

http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w483/farflungstar/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20170228_154136_zpsukpcbcvw.jpg

[struth]

Looks fine to me

[montesquieu]

I don't think it looks too bad Andrew, not that ungainly...


http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w483/farflungstar/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20170228_154146_zpsnqmw9jly.jpg

http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w483/farflungstar/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20170228_154136_zpsukpcbcvw.jpg


Surprised you don't get hum from that power amp so close to the Vida I had to move mine as far as physically possible away from any mains or output transformers.

[farflungstar]

Actually tom I do have a little hum today but not from the Vida, I just put in some Tungsol pre driver tubes (purchased from a member) and there is a very slight hum - they do however sound bloody fantastic! Last night with the old tubes and the Vida where it is there was zero hum.

[RothwellAudio]

I don't think it looks too bad Andrew, not that ungainly...

No, perhaps I was being a bit unkind - it doesn't look bad at all.
However, those power amps look a bit too close for comfort - hum wise - to my eyes.

[Bigman80]

That's is an epic set-up

Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk

[farflungstar]

I thought that Andrew but placing a thick steel sheet between them made no difference, and looked bloody ugly! Once I have my new interconnects I can jiggle things a bit more.

[RothwellAudio]

...but placing a thick steel sheet between them made no difference.
No, a steel sheet wouldn't shield against a magnetic field - the steel would have to completely envelope the thing you're trying to shield.

Yes, longer interconnects will allow you play around with positioning and trial and error is really the only way to go. It looks like simply having the monoblocks on the floor would give you an increase in distance between the power amps and SUT/phonostage, but in reality it might make things worse by having the respective transformers at a worse angle to each other. The only way to be sure is to try it and listen as you move things (if that's possible).

[farflungstar]

Thanks for the advice Andrew - I have only the slightest hum in one channel which is why I was thinking it was the valve. Minimum distance recommended by Vida is 10cm but of course more is better. With longer interconnects I can raise the Vida and SUT higher. Putting the Cary's on the floor is out of the question - my dog would love that!

[farflungstar]

I'd like to give a quick update on how the SUT sounds with the Allaerts - a definite improvement. I have it on the low setting and over the last few days the SUT has blossomed.

FSOL Environments (4 albums) are fantastic for testing a systems basic resolution and transparency - they are densely layered with both digital and traditional instruments, especially percussion. With the SUT the soundstage has increased width and there is more spaciousness around each instrument. More importantly it doesn't seem to have veiled any of the Truths astonishing ability to convey every micro detail in the grooves. If anything the extra 'space' enhances it.

Vocals are a touch more present, bass is better defined and yet more fulsome.

I know someone who heard it compared to the HM7 and thought it was a little dryer - whereas I'd call it transparent. Harmonics are still dense and tactile when present, colours just as rich.

How it will be with Miyajima I'll find out at the weekend.

[montesquieu]

I'd like to give a quick update on how the SUT sounds with the Allaerts - a definite improvement. I have it on the low setting and over the last few days the SUT has blossomed.

FSOL Environments (4 albums) are fantastic for testing a systems basic resolution and transparency - they are densely layered with both digital and traditional instruments, especially percussion. With the SUT the soundstage has increased width and there is more spaciousness around each instrument. More importantly it doesn't seem to have veiled any of the Truths astonishing ability to convey every micro detail in the grooves. If anything the extra 'space' enhances it.

Vocals are a touch more present, bass is better defined and yet more fulsome.

I know someone who heard it compared to the HM7 and thought it was a little dryer - whereas I'd call it transparent. Harmonics are still dense and tactile when present, colours just as rich.

How it will be with Miyajima I'll find out at the weekend.

I don't know how this works and until it happened I was a 'break-in' skeptic (moving stuff like cartridge suspensions yes but transformers?) ... but my HM-7s improved significantly over quite a long period. Out of the box I was actually quite disappointed, to the point where I lent it out on loan and went back to my TX-103s. The improvement over time was not trivial - so not surprised the HM-X is improving as you use it.

[struth]

there is a lot we do not yet understand; and may never.

[RothwellAudio]

... but my HM-7s improved significantly over quite a long period.
Pure guesswork, but I wonder if the transformer cores were partially magnetised and they became demagnetised over the break-in period.

[montesquieu]

Pure guesswork, but I wonder if the transformer cores were partially magnetised and they became demagnetised over the break-in period.

Interesting to identify a possible mechanism. They were delivered to my hotel in Japan and travelled back to Taiwan with me then home in hand luggage.

[farflungstar]

Maybe that was the problem... Mine sounded fine but has certainly improved over the last few days.

[petrat]

Interesting to identify a possible mechanism. They were delivered to my hotel in Japan and travelled back to Taiwan with me then home in hand luggage.

Jet-lag. Takes weeks to properly recover. :trust:

[Barry]

Jet-lag. Takes weeks to properly recover. :trust:

Didn't affect any of the CDs I brought back from Japan. (Or, come to think of it, those from Iran, Vietnam, Cameroon, ..... either.)

[montesquieu]

Didn't affect any of the CDs I brought back from Japan. (Or, come to think of it, those from Iran, Vietnam, Cameroon, ..... either.)

Holiday CDs eh. Generally playing them makes me hungry.

[Barry]

Holiday CDs eh. Generally playing them makes me hungry.

I'm quite a fan of ethnic or 'world' music (awful term!), and when on my travels if I hear performers I like, I will try to buy a copy of their work. The CDs bought in Japan, however were as a result of visiting Tower Records in Tokyo. I was in danger of 'maxing out' my credit card.

[montesquieu]

I'm quite a fan of ethnic or 'world' music (awful term!), and when on my travels if I hear performers I like, I will try to buy a copy of their work. The CDs bought in Japan, however were as a result of visiting Tower Records in Tokyo. I was in danger of 'maxing out' my credit card.

I'm not really a fan of world music particularly, but I find that sometimes when I bring a CD home of music heard somewhere, it evokes the atmosphere of a place ... which immediately connects to the local food which for me is one of the major things of being 'elsewhere'. (I have quite a strong memory for smells and tastes, and it all tends to join up). Of course it could just be a simple Pavlovian reaction ....

[walpurgis]

I'm quite a fan of ethnic or 'world' music (awful term!), and when on my travels if I hear performers I like, I will try to buy a copy of their work. The CDs bought in Japan, however were as a result of visiting Tower Records in Tokyo. I was in danger of 'maxing out' my credit card.

Are you familiar with the 'Wishing Well' album by Richie Havens Barry? It's not 'world music', but has that kind of 'flavour'. It may appeal to you. I have it on CD and think it's very fine. lovely recording too.

[Ammonite Audio]

How it will be with Miyajima I'll find out at the weekend.

Or much sooner, according to UPS tracking :D

[farflungstar]

I'm unpacking the box....

[farflungstar]

Tom, which setting did you prefer the Kansui with the hashimoto, low or high?

[montesquieu]

Tom, which setting did you prefer the Kansui with the hashimoto, low or high?

All the pundits told me low was supposed to be better ... I preferred high. At 16 ohm it's a bit of a toss-up, sitting in the middle ... I just felt there was more energy/musicality in the high setting. Either sounded balanced enough in terms of tone.

Strangely enough the Kansui (on the EAR 912 at least) prefers a 40 ohm setting which must be about 500 ohms (over the 12 ohm setting which you'd think would be closer).

[farflungstar]

Thanks tom - I need to let the Kansui bed in before forming an opinion on it - but switching to high I'd say the low setting has a little more depth but less sparkle - but it's too early to make judgements - it's only played 4 albums!

[montesquieu]

Thanks tom - I need to let the Kansui bed in before forming an opinion on it - but switching to high I'd say the low setting has a little more depth but less sparkle - but it's too early to make judgements - it's only played 4 albums!

It will take a bit of running in .... both of them actually .. best to reserve judgment for a while. Though your conclusion is similar to mine at least as regards sparkle/energy level.

As I mentioned it was literally months before the HM-7s came properly on-song.

[farflungstar]

I have to say that the HM-X really brought something to the Allaerts - balls and dynamics. I wouldn't run it straight into the Vida again. It turned an already superb transducer into a stunning one.

[RothwellAudio]

I wouldn't run it straight into the Vida again.
On this forum step-up transformers are treated as serious pieces of hi-fi but out there in the wider world you might be surprised how many people there are who think step-up transformers are just a cheap stop-gap to get you by if you only have an MM phonostage, and the best approach is get a "proper" phonostage which will do MC as soon as possible. Yet I've often advised people with an MM/MC phonostage to set it to MM and use a step-up transformer - more often than not they don't want to go back to an MC phonostage.

[RothwellAudio]

All the pundits told me low was supposed to be better ... I preferred high. At 16 ohm it's a bit of a toss-up, sitting in the middle ... I just felt there was more energy/musicality in the high setting. Either sounded balanced enough in terms of tone.

Strangely enough the Kansui (on the EAR 912 at least) prefers a 40 ohm setting which must be about 500 ohms (over the 12 ohm setting which you'd think would be closer).

My advice is to take all that ohms stuff with a pinch of salt. If a SUT has an input labelled "40 ohms", what does it actually mean? The answer is almost nothing. It certainly does not mean that the cartridge sees a 40 ohm load. It implies that that input is intended for a 40 ohm source, but that assumes an arbitrarily chosen bandwidth which is hardly ever stated. Do two different SUTs labelled as 40 ohms have the same turns ratio? Who knows?
And the "ohms" labelling completely disregards the output voltage of the cartridge. Take for example a Denon DL304 which has a 40 ohm impedance and a Benz Micro Gullwing with an impedance of 38 ohms (nearly the same). The Denon's output voltage is 0.18mV and and the Benz's output is 0.7mV. Are they equally compatible with a "40 ohm" SUT? Do they need the same turns ratio because they're the same impedance? Or, despite being the same impedance, do they need a different turns ratio because the output voltages are so different?
Personally, I think that labelling a SUT's inputs as "X ohms" is about as much use as a chocolate fireguard. In the absence of any other information the best you can do is suck it and see.