View Full Version : Interesting news - Tannoy to start (re)making Arden, Cheviot and Eaton
montesquieu
23-02-2017, 00:32
http://www.whathifi.com/news/tannoy-reintroduces-its-legacy-speaker-series-1970s
There was also a bit of buzz a few days back on the Tannoy Yahoo forum about maybe HPD-type (presumably not actual HPDs) also being available for hobbyists but no-one seemed able to stand up a credible source for that.
Very interesting, and great news, but much will depend on the price. I may have missed it, but I didn't see any mention of that... Chances are, Tannoy will be charging some ridiculous 'high-end type' price for them, but we shall see! :cool:
I suspect the best 'SPPV' route will still be obtaining a pair of vintage drivers/crossovers on ebay, and getting the likes of Paul (RFC) to build them into suitable cabinets and modify the crossovers...
Marco.
Quite fancy some Ardens. I bet the pricing is crazy though.
I love the 1970s publicity shot where the Tannoys seem to have gone to a wedding at a country house and are unaccountably milling around outside amongst the leaves on the lawn.
WTF is that all about?
Frazeur1
23-02-2017, 12:26
Quite fancy some Ardens. I bet the pricing is crazy though.
I love the 1970s publicity shot where the Tannoys seem to have gone to a wedding at a country house and are unaccountably milling around outside amongst the leaves on the lawn.
WTF is that all about?
As opposed to a lot of the Hifi ads back then that had nearly-if not naked little tarts casually glancing over blingy gear?
walpurgis
23-02-2017, 12:34
The new speakers shown appear to employ 'tulip waveguide' central tweeters, so may be derived from existing dual magnet designs. Nice enough, but if typical, lacking that last bit of 'see through' transparency that the 'pepperpot' classics have.
This is probably an exercise to cash in on the lasting popularity of the HPD's. They'll sell some, but I suspect real Tannoy fans will not be tempted.
As Marco suggests, I reckon the prices may be interesting!
As opposed to a lot of the Hifi ads back then that had nearly-if not naked little tarts casually glancing over blingy gear?
At least that made sense in an 'On The Buses' sort of way.
I mean why would you invite a collection of Tannoys to your wedding? And even if you did what are they doing outside on the lawn? It's the 'Seventies so they could smoke inside if they wanted to. There isn't even a stereo pair. Epic fail.
montesquieu
23-02-2017, 13:17
Very interesting, and great news, but much will depend on the price. I may have missed it, but I didn't see any mention of that... Chances are, Tannoy will be charging some ridiculous 'high-end type' price for them, but we shall see! :cool:
I suspect the best 'SPPV' route will still be obtaining a pair of vintage drivers/crossovers on ebay, and getting the likes of Paul (RFC) to build them into suitable cabinets and modify the crossovers...
Marco.
Will likely still be the case but the vintage route is not necessarily a cheap option.
Nope, not cheap but likely cheaper than what Tannoy are intending to charge for this new range!
One of the biggest bargains in hi-fi I own, in terms of out-and-out sonic performance, are my Lockwood Majors... The cabs are in near-mint condition, and with 15" MGs and upgraded crossovers inside, they cost me less than £4k.
I've not heard a pair of speakers yet, let alone any modern Tannoys, that I'd swap them for - and some of the speakers in question I've compared them with have cost north of £35k!! :eek:
Marco.
JBL 4365 - although they wouldn't work in your room and they are north of 10K
Yeah, lovely... Are they as cheap as that brand new? If so, I'd say that was a bargain. But as you say, they wouldn't work right in my room.
The point I was making though, which I'm sure you'll agree with is that for the £4k I've spent on them, the Lockies are ridiculously good! :cool:
Marco.
Yeah, lovely... Are they as cheap as that brand new? If so, I'd say that was a bargain. But as you say, they wouldn't work right in my room.
The point I was making though, which I'm sure you'll agree with is that for the £4k I've spent on them, the Lockies are ridiculously good! :cool:
Marco.
They were £10K before Brexit, not sure now. I still think that is expensive, unless it is by comparison to some other high end speakers, at which point you realise JBL are basically giving them away.
15'' inch MG in Lockies for £4K is a stupid bargain, You'll get no argument from me there.
I suspect that they'll possibly use the drivers re-developed for the GR range, where they reverted to AlNiCo, because they thought that's what people wanted and made claims about the "sound" of the magnet. I met with Tannoys Technical Director a few years ago at the Bristol Show and we had a long chat about the new range but also, I wanted to clear some of what I do with them, which they seemed happy to support. I mentioned the popularity of a few heritage models, and it was agreed that whilst the tulip wave-guide in principle has advantages over the pepperpot, people still associate the HPD and MG pepper pot design as the best, whether it is or not, so they were provided within the range (Kensington upwards).
The real reason for the incorrectness of the sound of some the TW drivers isn't due to the principles of the Tulip waveguide itself, but to the time alignment. The older MG and HPD drivers were perfectly time aligned and required no electrical compensation at crossover, plus used well designed notch filters to reduce horn resonance at around 3.3 KHz on the horns. As a result, the clarity, when cabs and crossovers are well sorted, can be amazing. The old drivers still have the edge here because whilst you can add a time delay in the crossover, the one adopted by Tannoy never really seemed to do the trick sonically and that region at crossover to 3.5KHz was always grating with me when listening to the K series, and later tulip waveguide drivers, including the first and second prestige series range of TW 'speakers. It also affected the GRF Memory and other large 80's and 90's designs.
To make this legacy series a success, I'd hope to see these issues properly addressed (and crossover designs) and a time aligned HF horn/magnet arrangement which means getting the correct length of horn/magnet and having the phase correction sorted without the time delay circuits. Consideration of horn resonance/notch filters would also be welcome, but in these days of marketing, profits and overheads, I wouldn't be surprised if crossovers were kept rather simple to cut manufacturing costs. To be fair, they may have considered all of this and designed the things with this in mind. I sincerely hope so.
To manufacture something of the quality of the older units (and they did with the GR series) I would expect the new drivers to be priced somewhere around the £1K to £1.5K each for retail. I would expect the new legacy Cheviots to be sold possibly around the Turnberry SE price. Otherwise, I can't see how they can provide the quality of driver, crossover and cabinet and make their distributor and dealer margins otherwise and still offer a high quality true legacy product.
I do think that going the vintage route and buying a pair for restoration and upgrading will still work out cheaper, a LOT cheaper if retaining the existing Cheviot cabs and having those worked on rather than commissioning new cabs. Tannoy won't be offering anything like the quality of some custom cabs doing the rounds but I'd expect the new ones hopefully to better the older Chevs and this time round, be properly tuned! (the old ones weren't...the port was way too long for the cab volume for a decent response). How the new models compare, we have yet to learn, but I wish Tannoy every success and hope that they do a good job and that their models are well received.
My guess for the Ardens is around £4.5k... My exact guess is £4,995... [emoji14]
walpurgis
23-02-2017, 19:34
My guess for the Ardens is around £4.5k... My exact guess is £4,995... [emoji14]
Higher! :)
Will be very interesting to see if they position these above the Prestige series in price or not...
Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
anubisgrau
23-02-2017, 21:28
Why no Berkeleys? To my ears they performed cleaner than Ardens.
I think Tannoy need to exploit their brand with the BRIC markets where a famous legacy made in the UK product is a prestige item; become like Aston Martin or Ferrari where demand outstrips supply and is kept that way. With that in mind I'd hope they are quality items (even if they are, and have to be, highly priced) and not a cynical cash in on the reputation.We will find out in due course.
I get that... Actually, if some of the proposed prices I've heard are correct (£10k for the Arden), less for the rest, then I consider that reasonable. I suspect that they'll deliver a goodly dose of the performance of Prestige models, for a fraction of the price....
We just need someone with discerning ears to have a listen! :cool:
Marco.
walpurgis
25-02-2017, 10:09
if some of the proposed prices I've heard are correct (£10k for the Arden), less for the rest, then I consider that reasonable.
Marco.
That would make the classic vintage HPD and Monitor Gold models look an even bigger bargain at their current asking prices.
:)
That would make the classic vintage HPD and Monitor Gold models look an even bigger bargain at their current asking prices.
Indeed....which is why the highest 'SPPV route' is still buying a pair of vintage drivers, sorting the crossovers, and having them put into new cabinets :)
Marco.
GRF -£16,988 see Hifipig.com (http://hifipig.com/tannoy-a-private-viewing-of-their-new-legacy-speakers/#more-28588), then perhaps just under £10k for The Ardens ....... er, not for me :(
I note too that crossovers seem to be a re-hash from some of the prestige series, much like the drive units. First and second order crossing (seldom a recipe for great sound unless acoustically matched in slope at crossover and only then if it can be summed to give a smooth response and good driver alignment...something I seldom see with this type of design). A simple step response test would provide some clues, so intrigued as to whether they'll publish such measurements. Would like to hear a pair of Ardens and Cheviots and they do look to be nicely made. Prestige GRFs definitely not for me.
Shame, guess the bean counters have decided to be greedy rather than increasing their audience, and instead expecting the Asian markets to lap them up, which could be a dangerous move.
montesquieu
26-02-2017, 00:19
Well this could be fun ... attending Munich this year so will report in.
Stumbled across this thread as a result of my new Tannoy obsession. I heard the new Cheviots at the Harrogate show a couple of weeks ago and (despite the naughty inclusion of supertweeters and £39k Californian power amps!) I was utterly spellbound. Gotta have some Tannoys - some day, some how.
I have no experience of the old ones - my main Tannoy experience were my old M20s from the early 90s(?) which I remember were pretty nice conventional speakers. The Cheviots to my ears were the stars of the show, outperforming the (exquisite but expensive) fancy horns downstairs with a big, entertaining, full-fat presentation that was just so easy to listen to. The Reiner/Chicago Pictures at an Exhibition just sounded so bloody right, and Kraftwerk (my other current obsession) sounded amazing! I stayed for about half an hour and then went and dragged my friends in for another listen.
Working out if I can fit the Ardens in my room, and then working out where I find £6,400(?) is my current favourite day-dream.
I remember standing in the big Lasky in Tottenham Court Road in the 70's, I wasn't even shopping for speakers, someone else was having a demo and as soon as they switched to the Tannoy's I fell in love, I didn't even know they were Tannoy's it was just on hearing them from across the large room. I went across, listened whilst they went through a few sets of speakers and then turned the Tannoy's on again, and found out what they were (Tannoy Cheviots).
Luckily for me, some of the local Hi-Fi shops in south London near the Tannoy factory in Norwood had a half price sale as I can only guess to mark the 5oth year of Tannoy but also to prepare for the move to Coatbridge, so in the late summer of 76 I became a proud owner of the Cheviots and still own and love them.
And on the rumour there are a pair of second hand Cheviots for sale at a shop in N8 north London for £2,500 and he says on his website about the new ones and how these second hand ones work out at half price.
For me, I haven't heard anything since the B&W Nautilus 801 that has turned my head quite like the new Cheviot. Quite how they compare with the originals is for others to fill in - but I didn't hear any of the glare or brightness that some say the tulip waveguide models have. It may be that Tannoy have this sorted and mature now. They seemed to be everything I hoped for and more.
It's a good job I'm still in love with my 804s or I'd be snookered.
For me, I haven't heard anything since the B&W Nautilus 801 that has turned my head quite like the new Cheviot. Quite how they compare with the originals is for others to fill in - but I didn't hear any of the glare or brightness that some say the tulip waveguide models have. It may be that Tannoy have this sorted and mature now. They seemed to be everything I hoped for and more.
It's a good job I'm still in love with my 804s or I'd be snookered.
That's news to me, if anything I'd describe the TW as polite and laid back-particularly when compared to the pepper-pot. If you run either waveguide type 'hot' they can start to grate. The TW in the Legacy is the same as its always been. In fact the crossover circuit in the new Arden is straight from the System 15 DMT 11-except the DMT used a(more expensive) air core inductor and lacked any energy adjustment.
The TW are identical.
Cheviot driver;
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4471/38217128141_74b4e18f4f_o.jpg
15DMT 3833;
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4509/38217129011_1b860f1c0d.jpg
That's news to me, if anything I'd describe the TW as polite and laid back-particularly when compared to the pepper-pot. If you run either waveguide type 'hot' they can start to grate. The TW in the Legacy is the same as its always been. In fact the crossover circuit in the new Arden is straight from the System 15 DMT 11-except the DMT used a(more expensive) air core inductor and lacked any energy adjustment.
The TW are identical.
Half-remembered stuff I read somewhere (might have been on the Berkeley thread I was reading) - I stand corrected... :)
In any case, I think the new Cheviot is phenomenal.
EDIT: I seem to recall someone was comparing later TW drivers unfavourably against the old HPDs (?) - but, as I say - half-remembered, late night surfing!
walpurgis
06-11-2017, 16:53
In any case, I think the new Cheviot is phenomenal.
You should hear the previous seventies version. And I'm not talking about the HPD equipped Cheviot. I'm referring to the Mk.II with the 3128 driver. It's superb!
You should hear the previous seventies version. And I'm not talking about the HPD equipped Cheviot. I'm referring to the Mk.II with the 3128 driver. It's superb!
How can I tell an HPD from a Mk II? Is there a buyer's guide thread I could read?
walpurgis
06-11-2017, 17:25
This is the Cheviot Mk.I (with 'tired' cone surrounds). The HPD315 driver frame is circular.
http://i68.tinypic.com/2q050gn.jpg
This is the HPD315 drive unit, with long Alnico magnet.
http://i68.tinypic.com/2012dza.jpg
This is the Cheviot Mk.II, with 3128 driver that has a 'quartic' shaped chassis. (mine)
http://i64.tinypic.com/34o9gfo.png
This is the 3128 driver, with shorter ceramic magnet. (mine)
http://i65.tinypic.com/2unxzf6.jpg
The Cheviot Mk.II is pretty rare, having only been in production for a matter of months. To my ears it sounds better than the Cheviot Mk.I and the foregoing Chatsworth model with the 12" Monitor Gold drive unit.
I came across this a while ago ... Tannoy's Paul Mills talking a bit about the history and development of the dual-concentric speaker in the first half of the video, before plugging the (then) new GR range, back in 2013. Apologies if it's been posted previously.
si4Hpm3wboE
Nice one, Peter. I've embedded the YouTube link for you :)
Does anyone know what the valve amp is shown in the bottom R/H corner of the picture at 0.49m in the video (with the Monitor Black), and what the turntable is on top of the R/H side of the table, at 0.53m?
When that show was launched, it must've been a really exciting time for hi-fi! :cool:
Marco.
wee tee cee
24-11-2017, 04:55
Was across at mikie b the other week and heard his refurbed tannoys......I get it!!!!#
They really move some air, if thats them just running in heaven only knows what they will do when loosened up properly!!!!
Heh-heh... If you want music to have genuine scale and gravitas, Tony, you have to SHIFT SOME AIR! :eyebrows:;)
Marco.
Heh-heh... If you want music to have genuine scale and gravitas, Tony, you have to SHIFT SOME AIR! :eyebrows:;)
Marco.
Or ensure that there is minimal phase distortion, especially at the bass end.
Sure, but unless you've got big, high-efficiency drivers, shifting that air, inside large and inert enclosures, you won't experience palpable scale and gravitas, and that HUGE 'effortless' sound, which you *only* get when those ingredients are in the equation! :)
Marco.
Nice one, Peter. I've embedded the YouTube link for you :)
Does anyone know what the valve amp is shown in the bottom R/H corner of the picture at 0.49m in the video (with the Monitor Black), and what the turntable is on top of the R/H side of the table, at 0.53m?
When that show was launched, it must've been a really exciting time for hi-fi! :cool:
Marco.
The amplifier is the Tannoy HF/100/20.L. A 20W amplifier based on the Williamson design. http://www.hilberink.nl/codehans/tannoy64.htm
No idea about the TT and arm, but going by its appearance it doesn't fill me with enthusiasm.
Thanks for that, Barry. Love the look of that amp - reckon it would sound fab! :)
I also like the look of the turntable... Why doesn't it fill you with enthusiasm? I doubt it'd be there, in such illustrious company, if it wasn't any good.
Marco.
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