View Full Version : Mains blocks, power strips (or whatever you want to call them) of the Schuko type.
I am currently using one of these http://www.apc.com/shop/uk/en/products/APC-Performance-SurgeArrest-8-outlets-with-Phone-Coax-Network-Protection-230V-UK/P-PF8VNT3-UK to connect my components to the power. Having read that the noise filter can kill the dynamics, I am looking at something more suitable.
One of these looks like a good idea to me - http://www.brennenstuhl.com/index.php?module=products&index[products][action]=details&index[products][category]=94&index[products][data][products_id]=1433 It's gpoing to cost me €36 delivered.
The question is, is it worth spending more on something like a Supra LoRad block, a Silver plated version of the Brennenstuhl block, getting Mark Grant or Wychwood Audionics to make me up a Schuko block?
It is going to be connected to my AG1500, so I have no need of noise filters or surge/spike protection.
The Brennenstuhl will likely offer the highest SPPV, Kev. It all depends on your budget and how 'serious' you are about this stuff.
However, if you want as close to the best as possible, to do it *right* and box it off as 'job done', then get Mark to build you a Schuko version of one of his blocks, as the attention to detail he puts in with soldering and star-earthing, etc, pays dividends.
Then if you combine that with one of his mains filters (for your digital components), see here: https://markgrant.co.uk/mains-filters/318-tube-distinctions-mains-power-filter-schuko.html then short of hard-wiring from the incoming mains supply, you'll have the ultimate solution.
Honestly, it really makes a difference separating your digital gear (all the 'noisy' bits) from your analogue stuff, rather than plugging everything into the one block, and you'll easily hear the results. If you can't stretch to the cost of the filter, then I'd recommend that you go for two mains blocks (perhaps a 4 and a 2-way), and separate it out that way.
Anyway, good luck and if I can advise you further, let me know :cool:
Marco.
Marco, thanks for the response.
The only mains powered digital component is my CD player, which rarely ever gets turned on. I could plug this directly into the wall in a spare socket.
I'll need 5 analogue sockets...
Ah ok, so you don't have anything else that uses a switch-mode power supply? Any AV/TV stuff, or anything of that nature, which is used in line with your hi-fi system, is just as noisy as a CDP....
Essentially, ALL you want plugged into your 'audiophile mains block' is the stuff you value the sound of most. Everything else should be relegated to wall sockets and/or separate blocks :)
Marco.
The HiFi runs off a Power Inspired AG1500. On the same mains circuit I do have a TV and satellite box etc.
I never get any clicks or pops from mains interference through the speakers.
It's not about clicks or pops, mate; it's about how those types of things chuck noise into the main supply, generating distortion that superimposes itself on the music - and you can't hear it until you get rid of it! ;)
Marco.
Won't the regenerator get rid of this?
Sherwood
19-02-2017, 10:57
I have a question. I am looking for a good mains distribution block for my monoblock power amps. I am not looking for any fancy filtering or surge suppression. However, it would be helpful if I could get one with a remote control to power off as the monoblocks themselves are somewhat inaccessible. Are there units available which do no affect sound quality when in use. Belkin used to do a UK unit but seem to have discontinued production
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Belkin-Energy-Saving-8-Outlet-Protector/dp/B003WK62XO
Geoff
I have a question. I am looking for a good mains distribution block for my monoblock power amps. I am not looking for any fancy filtering or surge suppression. However, it would be helpful if I could get one with a remote control to power off as the monoblocks themselves are somewhat inaccessible. Are there units available which do no affect sound quality when in use. Belkin used to do a UK unit but seem to have discontinued production
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Belkin-Energy-Saving-8-Outlet-Protector/dp/B003WK62XO
Geoff
Best really not too use mainsblock for power amps, they are best plugged into mains socket and in the case of monoblocks each with a good power cable preferably 4mm.
Won't the regenerator get rid of this?
Ive a big Belkin filter and distribution box after my regen to remove anything. Seems to be the right combo as its improved the sound
Sherwood
19-02-2017, 11:12
Best really not too use mainsblock for power amps, they are best plugged into mains socket and in the case of monoblocks each with a good power cable preferably 4mm.
That would be the ideal but at present I have to perform extreme yoga to reach the hidden sockets on either side of the room. Not easy with my spinal injury. They have been powered on continuously for the last month!:scratch:
That would be the ideal but at present I have to perform extreme yoga to reach the hidden sockets on either side of the room. Not easy with my spinal injury. They have been powered on continuously for the last month!:scratch:
Sorry to hear that it's difficult for you Geoff. I did my back in some time back so I know how tricky it can be unplugging stuff etc. Then maybe a really good mains block dedicated to the power amps would be best option as suggested by Marco, or two mains blocks. One for the power amps and one for the rest of your gear
I have done quite a bit of experimenting myself recently after using monoblocks and found that they certainly did not sound great with one plugged into a mains block and the other plugged into a wall socket. I put some more sockets in and a dedicated mains cable to each amp and the difference was not insignificant!
That would be the ideal but at present I have to perform extreme yoga to reach the hidden sockets on either side of the room. Not easy with my spinal injury. They have been powered on continuously for the last month!:scratch:
Something like this may help? https://www.amazon.co.uk/Brennenstuhl-1159453616-Eco-Line-extension-antracite/dp/B00HW07EFA/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1487504722&sr=8-7&keywords=extension+socket+with+switch
If not, you can get a remote controlled block - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Energenie-Trailing-Controlled-Protected-Sockets/dp/B003JT088S/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1487504922&sr=8-4&keywords=remote+control+extension or individual sockets - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Energenie-Remote-Control-Sockets-Pack/dp/B004A7XGH8/ref=pd_bxgy_23_2?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=ME4A1KEEMFPQZFTJ5C32
Won't the regenerator get rid of this?
Ah soz, didn't realise you had a regen unit. In that case ok, although the filter I linked to earlier would do a better job of sorting out the noisiest stuff. Just to clarify then, so I know exactly what you're using, could you list all your kit, which you intend to plug into the new block(s)...
Also, how many sockets does your regen unit have - and do you have any sockets connected to a dedicated mains spur? Once I know that, I'll advise you on what I'd buy and how I'd connect it all up :)
Marco.
Ok, I have six sockets on a radial circuit dedicated to home entertainment. I can easily add another two.
On one double socket (the first in the circuit) I have a time switch running a battery charger for my Anker battery that powers my Caiman DAC (this comes on from 1am until 9am everyday, and is deliberately set outside of normal listening hours).
The other socket powers my AG1500. This currently has an IEC power lead directly connected to my power amp (but this will have to change next week, as there will be two Firebottle monoblock amps here). The Schuko socket then feeds the power strip, which contains connections for the Firebottle KIN pre-amp, Graham Slee headphone amp run from a PSU1, Long Dog Audio PSU for the Techie, MJ Acoustics Pro 50 subwoofer, and finally my Pioneer PD-S703 CD player.
All of the HiFi is run through the regenerator, as I like the convenience of being able to power it all down easily, plus it gives me a consistent power feed, and has stopped the humming toroidals in the power amps.
At the moment, it is fed through standard Schuko kettle leads, but I have an aftermarket lead arriving next week, which I was planning to try on the regenerator or pre-amp.
The double socket next to the HiFi one is empty.
The last double socket has a Sony 32" LCD TV and a ZGemma H2S satellite receiver plugged into it.
Sherwood
19-02-2017, 20:22
Sorry to hear that it's difficult for you Geoff. I did my back in some time back so I know how tricky it can be unplugging stuff etc. Then maybe a really good mains block dedicated to the power amps would be best option as suggested by Marco, or two mains blocks. One for the power amps and one for the rest of your gear
I have done quite a bit of experimenting myself recently after using monoblocks and found that they certainly did not sound great with one plugged into a mains block and the other plugged into a wall socket. I put some more sockets in and a dedicated mains cable to each amp and the difference was not insignificant!
Yes, my house is new build so I can certainly dedicate one or more socketa to the power amps. The problem is that my Maggies are quite large panels and it is difficult to reach around them the the power sockets. I have some Bye Bye Standby Energy Saving Sockets with programmable remotes that I use for uplighters and the like. Would these compromise the performance of mu power amps?
Yes, my house is new build so I can certainly dedicate one or more socketa to the power amps. The problem is that my Maggies are quite large panels and it is difficult to reach around them the the power sockets. I have some Bye Bye Standby Energy Saving Sockets with programmable remotes that I use for uplighters and the like. Would these compromise the performance of mu power amps?
I am not sure I would plug my amps into those as they could compromise performance, best to go for unswitched sockets.
Ok, I have six sockets on a radial circuit dedicated to home entertainment. I can easily add another two.
On one double socket (the first in the circuit) I have a time switch running a battery charger for my Anker battery that powers my Caiman DAC (this comes on from 1am until 9am everyday, and is deliberately set outside of normal listening hours).
The other socket powers my AG1500. This currently has an IEC power lead directly connected to my power amp (but this will have to change next week, as there will be two Firebottle monoblock amps here). The Schuko socket then feeds the power strip, which contains connections for the Firebottle KIN pre-amp, Graham Slee headphone amp run from a PSU1, Long Dog Audio PSU for the Techie, MJ Acoustics Pro 50 subwoofer, and finally my Pioneer PD-S703 CD player.
All of the HiFi is run through the regenerator, as I like the convenience of being able to power it all down easily, plus it gives me a consistent power feed, and has stopped the humming toroidals in the power amps.
At the moment, it is fed through standard Schuko kettle leads, but I have an aftermarket lead arriving next week, which I was planning to try on the regenerator or pre-amp.
The double socket next to the HiFi one is empty.
The last double socket has a Sony 32" LCD TV and a ZGemma H2S satellite receiver plugged into it.
Hi Kev, I have just been experimenting with power sockets etc for my Croft monoblocks and to be honest they were best plugged into the same double unswitched socket. Also maybe try some beefed up 4mm power cables for you monoblocks.I had one mono amp on a block which also fed other stuff and one into the wall and they sounded slightly unbalanced to me, mind you it also had a kettle cable on it at the time. As with all my equipment I have gone for screened mains cables and tried to keep them as cleanly fed as possible. Adding another spur socket at the weekend with a nice silver plated double socket has helped even more.
Marcos suggestion of sockets etc is good but also consider the possibility of cooker sockets wired on a board with its own fuse box which is then wired back to you CU. No fuses to worry about.
Yes, my house is new build so I can certainly dedicate one or more socketa to the power amps. The problem is that my Maggies are quite large panels and it is difficult to reach around them the the power sockets. I have some Bye Bye Standby Energy Saving Sockets with programmable remotes that I use for uplighters and the like. Would these compromise the performance of mu power amps?
Have a look at the extension block with remote switch I linked to in post 13. This is probably less of a compromise than the remote controlled plugs.
Sherwood
19-02-2017, 20:45
Thanks for the suggestions. Will check out the options. However, I am hoping to return to long term overseas work soon so do not want to invest in any house rewiring options.
Geoff
Ah soz, didn't realise you had a regen unit. In that case ok, although the filter I linked to earlier would do a better job of sorting out the noisiest stuff. Just to clarify then, so I know exactly what you're using, could you list all your kit, which you intend to plug into the new block(s)...
Also, how many sockets does your regen unit have - and do you have any sockets connected to a dedicated mains spur? Once I know that, I'll advise you on what I'd buy and how I'd connect it all up :)
Marco.
:wave:
337alant
22-02-2017, 14:05
I think the Olsun mains blocks are very good industrial quality very good heavy duty sockets
They are not that expensive and come up on ebay cheap
http://www.olson.co.uk/13amp_slim.htm
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Olson-10-Way-Mains-Plug-Board-With-Ceeform-Mains-Distribution-/292009072979
Alan
:wave:
We shall chat later, amigo :cool:
Marco.
blackstar
22-02-2017, 15:36
I think the Olsun mains blocks are very good industrial quality very good heavy duty sockets
They are not that expensive and come up on ebay cheap
http://www.olson.co.uk/13amp_slim.htm
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Olson-10-Way-Mains-Plug-Board-With-Ceeform-Mains-Distribution-/292009072979
Alan
Exactly the type I am using.
We shall chat later, amigo :cool:
Marco.
It was good to finally have a chat.
Thanks for sharing several ideas with me. It has given me food for thought.
You're welcome, mate. Good to have chatted at last :)
Keep me posted of developments! :cool:
Marco.
Best really not too use mainsblock for power amps, they are best plugged into mains socket and in the case of monoblocks each with a good power cable preferably 4mm.
4mm? What kind of plugs you using to accommodate that James?
4mm seems a bit of overkill (36amp). A 30amp ring main only uses 2.5mm cable and even a 1.5mm single lead is good for 19.5amps. Measured my system today and the whole thing draws less than 1 amp when used under normal/reasonably loud listening and doesn't spike much higher on sequenced start up. That's with a 7 channel power amp, active crossover, the TT and its air pump, Phono stage, Pre amp, Dac, and CD Transport.
I normally use a 2.5mm(27amp) extension to the distribution block and 1.5mm for each lead to the gear. Even that is more than what's needed. If you buy ready made IEC power leads, they are 1mm wire(15amp) as the IEC connectors are only rated at 10amps max and the three pin UK safety plug is rated at 13amp so its "adequate".
These are ratings for electrical safety and points at which things start to get warm. I have often wondered if extra copper has audible benefits and is the reason for me beefing up a bit, but I have never seen anything stating this as a fact. :)
Pieoftheday
23-02-2017, 21:19
Is it worth getting a decent mains block if the rest of your leads are OE? I recent ly bought an audio friendly Mains block ,mainly because the cheap ones I had I felt were so cheap ,were they safe? Any hoo this audio friendly job weren't too pricey 30 sovs and seems good quality,hard to say as yet if it improves anything. Also,am I right that the thinking is, best to plug your amp into wall socket and everything else into block? Jim
4mm? What kind of plugs you using to accommodate that James?
4mm seems a bit of overkill (36amp). A 30amp ring main only uses 2.5mm cable and even a 1.5mm single lead is good for 19.5amps. Measured my system today and the whole thing draws less than 1 amp when used under normal/reasonably loud listening and doesn't spike much higher on sequenced start up. That's with a 7 channel power amp, active crossover, the TT and its air pump, Phono stage, Pre amp, Dac, and CD Transport.
I normally use a 2.5mm(27amp) extension to the distribution block and 1.5mm for each lead to the gear. Even that is more than what's needed. If you buy ready made IEC power leads, they are 1mm wire(15amp) as the IEC connectors are only rated at 10amps max and the three pin UK safety plug is rated at 13amp so its "adequate".
These are ratings for electrical safety and points at which things start to get warm. I have often wondered if extra copper has audible benefits and is the reason for me beefing up a bit, but I have never seen anything stating this as a fact. :)
Hi Ken, something like this with normal MK plug and furutech connector.
http://www.mains-cables-r-us.co.uk/diy-componants/657-mcru-audiophile-4mm-mains-cable-per-metre.html
Is it worth getting a decent mains block if the rest of your leads are OE? I recent ly bought an audio friendly Mains block ,mainly because the cheap ones I had I felt were so cheap ,were they safe? Any hoo this audio friendly job weren't too pricey 30 sovs and seems good quality,hard to say as yet if it improves anything. Also,am I right that the thinking is, best to plug your amp into wall socket and everything else into block? Jim
This is how I have connected my system up for quite sometime. Power amps into separate wall sockets and preamp and TT from Mains block. The mains block is unswitched and very high quality.
Hi Ken, something like this with normal MK plug and furutech connector.
http://www.mains-cables-r-us.co.uk/diy-componants/657-mcru-audiophile-4mm-mains-cable-per-metre.html
Hi James, I have a few meters of that cable, been sat in a cupboard for a while now. It's industrial cable used in factories etc for fixed installations, picked it up off the bay for considerably less money. The reason I've not used it, is it won't fit any of my plugs, the entry holes are too small and the cable cleat wont fit, I find 10mm OD is about the maximum that you can use and some plugs wont take that. I won't pay exotic prices for plugs so it has to be something readily available. Having said that, the Chinese have latched on to this lucrative market and are starting to copy items. I saw such a copy recently on the bay, a copy of an £80 plug for £4.50 including postage from China, you probably know the type, IEC mains input plug with a transparent Blue nose and Black body.
From memory I think this cable is getting on for 14mm OD, my MIG welder uses thinner stuff. :D
What's the thinking behind the 4mm square copper?
Always willing to here a good case argued.
My kettle draws eight times more current than my whole music system put together and that runs on 1mm square, so I'm interested if you have any information that has convinced you its worth while beefing up the leads to this extent.
"Power amps into separate wall sockets and preamp and TT from Mains block."
I think I understand your reasoning in this approach, but it does go against what would be recommended to avoid ground loop issues, so may not work for everyone. Suck it and see situation.
You going to NEBO this time round?
Hi James, I have a few meters of that cable, been sat in a cupboard for a while now. It's industrial cable used in factories etc for fixed installations, picked it up off the bay for considerably less money. The reason I've not used it, is it won't fit any of my plugs, the entry holes are too small and the cable cleat wont fit, I find 10mm OD is about the maximum that you can use and some plugs wont take that. I won't pay exotic prices for plugs so it has to be something readily available. Having said that, the Chinese have latched on to this lucrative market and are starting to copy items. I saw such a copy recently on the bay, a copy of an £80 plug for £4.50 including postage from China, you probably know the type, IEC mains input plug with a transparent Blue nose and Black body.
From memory I think this cable is getting on for 14mm OD, my MIG welder uses thinner stuff. :D
What's the thinking behind the 4mm square copper?
Always willing to here a good case argued.
My kettle draws eight times more current than my whole music system put together and that runs on 1mm square, so I'm interested if you have any information that has convinced you its worth while beefing up the leads to this extent.
"Power amps into separate wall sockets and preamp and TT from Mains block."
I think I understand your reasoning in this approach, but it does go against what would be recommended to avoid ground loop issues, so may not work for everyone. Suck it and see situation.
You going to NEBO this time round?
Hi Ken,
I am not sure of the technical reasoning behind the large 4mm copper cable but in listening tests between this cable and a standard kettle cable I get a much better depth of bass and the amp sounds more open. The cable is fitted into a furutech IEC connector and a standard MK plug. I am just trying another one on my preamp and this is now plugged into its own power socket. It is sounding very good indeed. I am only using the block connector for my Turntable but if I get another longer cable this may go into its own wall socket.
Can you let me know what is recommended to avoid ground loop issues- thanks?
Unfortunately can't make the next NEBO but will be at the following one I hope.
Can you let me know what is recommended to avoid ground loop issues- thanks?
Unfortunately can't make the next NEBO but will be at the following one I hope.
Ground loop effects can be a complex subject, but in the most simple terms, you are trying to avoid a loop between two or more pieces of equipment. If the items are plugged into separate wall sockets, the power leads and the ring main between them form three sides of a square through the safety earth wire, if the two pieces of equipment have connected grounds through a shielded lead etc, it finishes the fourth side of the square and you have a loop circuit. This can lead to a serious mains hum through the equipment. I think you can have loops that don't include the ring main but still induce hum through the grounding paths (earth wires/chassis/shields) of the equipment forming a loop. The trick is to break any loops that exist. I'm no expert at understanding or explaining it, google it and there are lots of articles and pictures explaining the phenomenon. I've never had a problem myself, I would probably know more about it If I'd had to solve an issue.
Pity you can't make NEBO, hope you get to the next one.
Are you doing the Wigwam Show?
Myself and Gordon (halfway tree) are exhibiting there this year, sharing a larger room (Syndicate 3), maybe see you there?
Ground loop effects can be a complex subject, but in the most simple terms, you are trying to avoid a loop between two or more pieces of equipment. If the items are plugged into separate wall sockets, the power leads and the ring main between them form three sides of a square through the safety earth wire, if the two pieces of equipment have connected grounds through a shielded lead etc, it finishes the fourth side of the square and you have a loop circuit. This can lead to a serious mains hum through the equipment. I think you can have loops that don't include the ring main but still induce hum through the grounding paths (earth wires/chassis/shields) of the equipment forming a loop. The trick is to break any loops that exist. I'm no expert at understanding or explaining it, google it and there are lots of articles and pictures explaining the phenomenon. I've never had a problem myself, I would probably know more about it If I'd had to solve an issue.
Pity you can't make NEBO, hope you get to the next one.
Are you doing the Wigwam Show?
Myself and Gordon (halfway tree) are exhibiting there this year, sharing a larger room (Syndicate 3), maybe see you there?
Thanks for the explanation Ken. i definitely have no hum, just silence or a bit of tube rush when I turn up my amps.
Not going to Wigwam show as I am on hols that weekend.
Catch up with you at next NEBO, maybe in the Autumn?
As a minor update to this thread, I have a Brennenstuhl mains block arriving next week. I should also have a Furutech e-TP60E arriving.
It will be interesting to see if I can hear a difference between the two, with the Brennenstuhl costing more than ten times less than the Furutech.
As a minor update to this thread, I have a Brennenstuhl mains block arriving next week. I should also have a Furutech e-TP60E arriving.
It will be interesting to see if I can hear a difference between the two, with the Brennenstuhl costing more than ten times less than the Furutech.
The Furutech looks rather good,their stuff is so well made. Have you sorted all your mains cables now Kev?
The Furutech was discovered during some idle browsing at a price I could not refuse.
I am slowly working my way through the mains cables. I have two, with a third one on the way. Another two, and I think I will be done...
The Furutech was discovered during some idle browsing at a price I could not refuse.
I am slowly working my way through the mains cables. I have two, with a third one on the way. Another two, and I think I will be done...
I found that the mains cable I use for my power amp did not work so well with my preamp so maybe something to bear in mind. The larger gauge mains cable took away some of the finesse and nuances from the preamp and made it sound a tad muddy?
brian2957
02-07-2017, 17:58
Which cable was it you used on the preamp again James ? I've forgotten again :mental:
Which cable was it you used on the preamp again James ? I've forgotten again :mental:
It was a version of this Brian from MCRU
https://www.mains-cables-r-us.co.uk/mains-cables-/12-mains-cables-r-us-no-11-power-lead.html
brian2957
02-07-2017, 18:26
Thanks James .:)
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