Who Likes Aircraft?

[walpurgis]

I love aircraft and found this YouTube video of a gorgeous Grumman F7F Tigercat being put through its paces. Wonderful stuff. Put it on full screen and turn the volume up for this one, it sounds incredible.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1IM6nXsdQc

The Tigercat was one of the fastest prop powered planes ever built.



Feel free to add other videos or photos. I'll bung more on.

[CageyH]

What is not to like about this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-I4hZah_Pc

[walpurgis]

:scratch:

[CageyH]

:scratch:

:scratch:

[struth]

https://youtu.be/WiOIhks1WWY


https://youtu.be/zC89uDi8mEg

[narabdela]

What is not to like about this?




Now you're talking. :thumbsup:

[CageyH]

https://youtu.be/r-YYIgWnlbg

[struth]

https://youtu.be/awfbE0KxEjE

scary one

[walpurgis]

Yeah. Saw a Mosquito at North Weald about 25 years ago. It was the only flying example at the time I believe. Sounded superb.

I also saw the Tigercat in the first video there one year, when the Grumman Ironworks display was there. Awesome plane

[walpurgis]

Sukhoi SU-30. Stunning vectored thrust manouverabilty.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUI7QcF1rqg

[shane]

Lovely, especially the Mosquito, but for me the pinnacle came 29 years later when Concorde 001 took to the air for the first time. I always knew she was clever, but I didn't really understand what an extraordinary achievement she was until I found what must be the best thread about anything on any forum anywhere. It's now reached a hundred pages, and contributors include flight deck and cabin crew, maintenance engineers and some of the guys who designed and developed her. There's a lot of intricate technical detail, but it's worth persevering to get a real insight into one of the greatest engineering achievements ever. And I it all starts with an obscure technical question from a geek like me. If you're a geek like me, be prepared to be immersed for the next six hours or so!

http://www.pprune.org/tech-log/423988-concorde-question.html

[walpurgis]

Living only a couple of miles from Heathrow and often under the take off path (depending runway used), I used to see Concorde all the time. Noisy, but not as noisy as the VC10 was.

[walpurgis]

Reno Air Races. Grumman Bearcat 'Rare Bear' qualifying laps. This thing is just beautiful and very fast. Turn the wick up, it sounds awesome! The fast bit is the second half of the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CQLpByAbns

Rare Bear has held the piston engined aircraft world speed record for many years, at 528 mph!

[CageyH]

https://youtu.be/4iOoiEbtf2w

[southall-1998]

This is awesome! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1e-aw3aJpBc&t=367s

S.

[Ian7633]

This was always one of my favourites, spent many happy hours together.

http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g345/ian7633/stan_zpstkibtkri.jpg (http://s1097.photobucket.com/user/ian7633/media/stan_zpstkibtkri.jpg.html)



Sorry, couldn't resist.....

[walpurgis]

This was always one of my favourites, spent many happy hours together.

http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g345/ian7633/stan_zpstkibtkri.jpg (http://s1097.photobucket.com/user/ian7633/media/stan_zpstkibtkri.jpg.html)



Sorry, couldn't resist.....

Hmm. :rolleyes:



:lolsign:

[Gazjam]

Naa...


V1AXLydZrbE

[walpurgis]

The real thing is better.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsVAO_U78Qg

The French hardly need the Typhoon Eurofighter when they have THIS!

[Firebottle]

Reno Air Races. Grumman Bearcat 'Rare Bear' qualifying laps. This thing is just beautiful and very fast. Turn the wick up, it sounds awesome! The fast bit is the second half of the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CQLpByAbns

Rare Bear has held the piston engined aircraft world speed record for many years, at 528 mph!

That is one stonkingly big prop on that plane, amazing.

[Audio Al]

Yes I have several of these
http://www.flinn-garlick-saws.co.uk/acatalog/Clifton-Bench-Plane-no.-7-191.html#SID=454

And these
http://www.axminster.co.uk/veritas-low-angle-jack-planes-ax932288

;)

[walpurgis]

That is one stonkingly big prop on that plane, amazing.

That's why planes like this have nose up, tailwheel undercarriage. The big prop would dig into the ground otherwise.

[walpurgis]

Here's one for today. The Russian 'Spitfire'! WW2 Yakovlev Yak-3M. It's not well known that the Russians made some very fine aircraft during the second world war. This is lovely and sounds fantastic with that big V12 engine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhizELx4fng

[ReggieB]

https://dqzrr9k4bjpzk.cloudfront.net/images/1560347/469204493.jpg (http://scottmeekwoodworks.com/shop/#!/Jack-Plane/p/15638898/category=3684719)

[Old boy]

I love aircraft and found this YouTube video of a gorgeous Grumman F7F Tigercat being put through its paces. Wonderful stuff. Put it on full screen and turn the volume up for this one, it sounds incredible.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1IM6nXsdQc

The Tigercat was one of the fastest prop powered planes ever built.



Feel free to add other videos or photos. I'll bung more on.


Both my youngest daughter and I have always been huge plane fans both vintage and modern birds.
falling out of love with hi end audio early last year has lead me to rekindle that particular hobby.
Duxford and RIAT 2017 is a must attend for all enthusiasts at some point,personally I'm really looking forward too my long overdue treat of a flight in a 2 seater Spit later this summer.

[struth]

Both my youngest daughter and I have always been huge plane fans both vintage and modern birds.
falling out of love with hi end audio early last year has lead me to rekindle that particular hobby.
Duxford and RIAT 2017 is a must attend for all enthusiasts at some point,personally I'm really looking forward too my long overdue treat of a flight in a 2 seater Spit later this summer.

That will be awsome Kev. Would have enjoyed that myself. That and a trip in my fav..the english electric.

[Audio Al]

https://dqzrr9k4bjpzk.cloudfront.net/images/1560347/469204493.jpg (http://scottmeekwoodworks.com/shop/#!/Jack-Plane/p/15638898/category=3684719)

:eyebrows: nice

[nthall]

I'll probably die trying something like this someday.

https://youtu.be/iqqhMMtXFoE

Sent from my Z981 using Tapatalk

[Parkie37]

https://youtu.be/awfbE0KxEjE

scary one

Those boys are crazy!

[Parkie37]

Here is the bird that I fly....19304

[Parkie37]

19305

Just this morning we announced the new paint scheme for the entire fleet at our airline.....

[Audio Al]

Woo , Are you the pilot or crew ,

[Parkie37]

Woo , Are you the pilot or crew ,

I'm one of the pilots onboard. There will be as many as four of us as the flights are up to 16 hours long.

Don

[Audio Al]

I'm one of the pilots onboard. There will be as many as four of us as the flights are up to 16 hours long.

Don


:wow: Much respect :respect:

[Landloper]

I have a soft spot for the Avro Anson (probably because it was the first Airfix kit I managed to complete)

19307

[shane]

My other all time favourite is that other brilliant example of British engineering, the Harrier. Not least because my late brother-in-law was Senoir Engineering Officer for two squadrons of them.

http://www.thepippin.plus.com/Misc/IMG_3608.JPG


http://www.thepippin.plus.com/Misc/IMG_3609.JPG

[walpurgis]

I have a soft spot for the Avro Anson (probably because it was the first Airfix kit I managed to complete)

19307

They based a few of those at RAF Northolt in the fifties and sixties. I saw loads of them. And regularly saw Armstrong Whitworth Argosy, Fairchild C-82 Packet, Douglas C47 Dakota, Avro Shackleton, Lockheed P-2 Neptune, Fairy Gannet, Super Constellation, C-130 Hercules, Bristol Brittania, Vampires, Meteors, Canberras, Comets, Javelins, Hunters, Vickers Varsity & Valetta, Percival Pembrokes, De Havilland Devon, Blackburn Beverley, Handley Page Hastings, (flew in the last four from there). There were loads more that I've not recalled.

They filmed The Battle of Britain movie there, so I saw loads of ex Spanish air force Heinkel HE111 bombers and ME109 fighters, all sporting Merlin engines. Plus all the WW2 British fighters doing dogfight simulations.

The Harrier was tested there too.

[Ninanina]

I was brought up around planes as my father worked for Hawker Siddeley/de Havilland at Hatfield which means we went free to all the yearly air displays at Hatfield

I guess it was inevitable that I would go on to be a pilot. Firstly gliders and later on hang gliders. I owned my own glider, an Astir like this

http://i.imgur.com/jJUnbxN.jpg (http://imgur.com/jJUnbxN)

And then an Elan hang glider like this

http://i.imgur.com/v8hbtKT.jpg (http://imgur.com/v8hbtKT)

I love everything and anything to do with planes

It's a real shame that the Vulcan is now grounded as I always loved the 'howl' of all those Olympus engines but I did support the Vulcan financially as much as I could

[struth]

always fancied being in a glider. no noise just the air rush... Dunno about the landing mind lol

[Ninanina]

There is nothing to beat a glider Grant..

I tried powered but hated it because of the noise and in my opinion 'little skill'

[Parkie37]

:wow: Much respect :respect:

Thank you, that's kind of you to say. I do get over to London about a dozen and a half times per year. Here is a pic of me standing in front of one of the engines on the B777. Each engine has 115,000 Lbs of thrust, which is approximately 100,000 horsepower :stalks:

19315

[Parkie37]

They based a few of those at RAF Northolt in the fifties and sixties. I saw loads of them. And regularly saw Armstrong Whitworth Argosy, Fairchild C-82 Packet, Douglas C47 Dakota, Avro Shackleton, Lockheed P-2 Neptune, Fairy Gannet, Super Constellation, C-130 Hercules, Bristol Brittania, Vampires, Meteors, Canberras, Comets, Javelins, Hunters, Vickers Varsity & Valetta, Percival Pembrokes, De Havilland Devon, Blackburn Beverley, Handley Page Hastings, (flew in the last four from there). There were loads more that I've not recalled.

They filmed The Battle of Britain movie there, so I saw loads of ex Spanish air force Heinkel HE111 bombers and ME109 fighters, all sporting Merlin engines. Plus all the WW2 British fighters doing dogfight simulations.

The Harrier was tested there too.

I love all of this discussion of the old aircraft. I grew up loving movies like Battle Of Britain and Tora, Tora, Tora. It is hard to wrap your mind around the incredible loss of life though. My Uncle Keith was an instructor on a Cessna Crane in the prairies of Canada for the first half of the war (he signed up at the beginning and made it until one month or so before the end of the war) and then was a Skipper on the Halifax, on countless bombing runs into Germany. Sadly, right before the end of the war he and another bomber collided over Hannover. My wife and I went to see his grave there and I have immense respect for how nicely the Germans have maintained the war graves of their former enemies. Here is a picture or two of him back in the day....

He is the fellow on the right. This is their flight school graduation photo:
19316

Here he is with some rare time off between missions:
19317

[Parkie37]

I don't want to overdo the photos of my uncle, so here are the last three. First one is learning to fly in the Tiger Moth and the second is in the aforementioned Anson. The last photo is of the entire Halifax crew. These are scans from the photo album that he put together during the war. Hope you like them :)

19318

19319

19320

[Firebottle]

A captain too, that's where the ultimate respect is due Don IMO, I salute your Uncle's memory and bravery in troubled times past.

Thanks for posting :respect:

[Landloper]

Thanks, Walpurgis, I happened to pick up a copy of the Imperial War Museum's DVD of 'Ferry Pilots' recently. Super WW2 footage of, among others, an Armstrong Whiworth Whitley [interior as well as exterior] as well as an Avro Anson [ditto] in the hands of RAF ATA pilots .

[Landloper]

'I don't want to overdo the photos of my uncle...'

Please post as many as you have, Parkie37. What a superb generation they were.

[Oddball]

Super stuff Parkie !!!
My friend crews for a local chap that has a Yak , and I believe he has just bought the Avro Anson from Classic Flight at Bagington Coventry , where I used to do a bit of plane scrapping!
The Anson is the only one still flying , that was in RAF service during the war I believe

[struth]

Thank you, that's kind of you to say. I do get over to London about a dozen and a half times per year. Here is a pic of me standing in front of one of the engines on the B777. Each engine has 115,000 Lbs of thrust, which is approximately 100,000 horsepower :stalks:

19315

Thats a big engine Don. Not keen on flying have to say. Prefer the sea. I swim better than I fly lol

[walpurgis]

I've still got the old man's WW2 flight log. Mainly routine and transit flights, but also operational flights over German occupied Europe doing radar research and tests, some during bombing missions. Some interesting aircraft and pilot names in there. Dad was the RAF military side head of radar research at the Cranwell radar development station.

[Oddball]

One of the best - The great Vulcan at RAF Yeovilton:eek:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Djd1pPQZ_LE

[Haselsh1]

From being born in 1959 until the end of flying in 1988 I lived on the outskirts of Grimsby just ten miles from RAF Binbrook. For most of those years I remember with some fondness the English Electric Lightning. I remember seeing my first ever above the house in 1965 and the last ever around 1987. I have hundreds of slides of that aircraft at Binbrook along with some other quite rare visiting aircraft. Those truly were the days.

[Oddball]

From being born in 1959 until the end of flying in 1988 I lived on the outskirts of Grimsby just ten miles from RAF Binbrook. For most of those years I remember with some fondness the English Electric Lightning. I remember seeing my first ever above the house in 1965 and the last ever around 1987. I have hundreds of slides of that aircraft at Binbrook along with some other quite rare visiting aircraft. Those truly were the days.
The 'Frightening' as she was sometimes known was next best thing to a rocket !!
The Hawker Hunter is a particular favorite of mine and she should be remembered for being Sydney Camms lovely creation (he designed the Hawker Hurricane before) and not as the plane that caused the Shoreham tragedy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rchC7XBngyI

[Haselsh1]

Yeah, I saw Hawker Hunters many times at RAF Binbrook along with Buccaneers, Phantoms, Starfighters, Drakens, Alpha Jets, the list just goes on. I once saw a Hunter do a simulated chemical weapons attack over the airfield spraying water from underwing tanks over the technical site. What a way to spend endless summers during the eighties.

[walpurgis]

Today's offering. Chance-Vought Corsair. Great plane!

I've seen several of these at displays and they fly superbly, fast too. They make distinct a howling noise as they dive under acceleration.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7lqMWUOyD0

[walpurgis]

Here's one for Sunday. A bit of fun, a largish transport plane being chucked about something silly! :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTn6JiU2J6U

[walpurgis]

Here's something a bit special for plane fans. Very rare WW2 Focke Wulf 190 giving a display.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkWnHma45fk

[Firebottle]

I'm wading my way through the PPRuNe thread on Concorde at the moment, a page or two every day. Only up to page 21 but it is truly fascinating.

Her is one of the best quotes so far from one of the stewardesses:

'On landing in Toronto after a very gusty approach, the skipper put her down a bit sharpish.

A senior royal gentleman to the skipper on leaving the aircraft,"Wonderful flight, thank you. And if the company want to know where the undercarriage is, it's up my a**e."

True to form. (Touches nose. No names. )'

Brilliant, can't think which HRH it might be :rolleyes:

Can really ............

[Vinyl turner]

Ladies & gentlemen may I indulge in something I hope you appreciate ....

You may have seen this clip before but hopefully not. Please bear with the intro - and keep watching.
I have read your various posts with interest as planes and hifi are high up amongst my passions.
I recall one book (nothing to do with the youtube clip attached) written by a pilot from WWII who mainly flew Spitfires and his last story concerned his squadron being posted to Burma after the war in Europe finished. They were RAF pilots and had bee issued/converted to the Griffon engined Spits (is that the MkXIV) and were assigned to an invasion force that were due to undertake a sea assault. Fortuntely they never had to attack as the war ended but they were on board a Naval aircraft carrier and he recalled the first practice flight.
It sounded horrendous as the engine was so powerful that the torque pulled the nose of the aircraft in the direction of the prop rotation. The problem being that the Merlin engines spun anti-clockwise, whereas the Griffon spun clockwise: this was not only unusual and not what they were used to but when they were lined up on the flight deck it was in the direction where all the superstructure of the ship stood. The whole group of them were frightened to death as they had to run the engines up to full power to gain speed for take off, then release the brakes and fight against the torque that was pulling them straight towards the superstructure. They all managed it but it was a hell of a struggle , especially against such a powerful engine.
Anyway, hope you like the star of this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itsNH_Pmfck

[Dynamics]

Im an aviation nut too, was in the CCF at a school and flew chimpmunks at marshalls in Cambridge. I started making model radio control aeroplanes from chipmunks, to piper cubs and a 1/4 scale flair tiger moth which was my biggest - 90 inch wingspan with a 30cc engine. During this time I also joined a gliding club. Learnt to fly k13s, and then flew k6s, astirs at wormingford in colchester. Flew at lasham a few times on holiday, but stopped gliding a while back due to a stressful job and bad health but would like to return to it. Also did half a pilots license on a robin hr200 at earls colne, near colchester, going solo many times. Still mess around with model aeroplanes and electric model gliders in the summer (have a 3 metre multiplex cularis), always go to airshows and sadly was at the shoreham show when the hunter went down. I really hope he doesn't get vilified and criminalised for that accident as it was really just an accident and Andy Hill is a very competent pilot.

[Oddball]

Im an aviation nut too, was in the CCF at a school and flew chimpmunks at marshalls in Cambridge. I started making model radio control aeroplanes from chipmunks, to piper cubs and a 1/4 scale flair tiger moth which was my biggest - 90 inch wingspan with a 30cc engine. During this time I also joined a gliding club. Learnt to fly k13s, and then flew k6s, astirs at wormingford in colchester. Flew at lasham a few times on holiday, but stopped gliding a while back due to a stressful job and bad health but would like to return to it. Also did half a pilots license on a robin hr200 at earls colne, near colchester, going solo many times. Still mess around with model aeroplanes and electric model gliders in the summer (have a 3 metre multiplex cularis), always go to airshows and sadly was at the shoreham show when the hunter went down. I really hope he doesn't get vilified and criminalised for that accident as it was really just an accident and Andy Hill is a very competent pilot.
I hope so , but I cant seem to wonder if he will be made responsible !! All airshows have suffered too after such an awful accident , what with insurance hiked to unmanagable proportions !!
But sadly ,loss of life is a serious thing , and what will drive the way thinks will be ,from now on :(

[Oddball]

Im an aviation nut too, was in the CCF at a school and flew chimpmunks at marshalls in Cambridge. I started making model radio control aeroplanes from chipmunks, to piper cubs and a 1/4 scale flair tiger moth which was my biggest - 90 inch wingspan with a 30cc engine. During this time I also joined a gliding club. Learnt to fly k13s, and then flew k6s, astirs at wormingford in colchester. Flew at lasham a few times on holiday, but stopped gliding a while back due to a stressful job and bad health but would like to return to it. Also did half a pilots license on a robin hr200 at earls colne, near colchester, going solo many times. Still mess around with model aeroplanes and electric model gliders in the summer (have a 3 metre multiplex cularis), always go to airshows and sadly was at the shoreham show when the hunter went down. I really hope he doesn't get vilified and criminalised for that accident as it was really just an accident and Andy Hill is a very competent pilot.
I hope so , but I cant seem to wonder if he will be made responsible !! All airshows have suffered too after such an awful accident , what with insurance hiked to unmanagable proportions !!
But sadly ,loss of life is a serious thing , and what will drive the way thinks will be ,from now on :(

[Dynamics]

I hope so , but I cant seem to wonder if he will be made responsible !! All airshows have suffered too after such an awful accident , what with insurance hiked to unmanagable proportions !!
But sadly ,loss of life is a serious thing , and what will drive the way thinks will be ,from now on :(


The final AAIB report which came out last week and can be read on the AAIB website is very interesting, but I can't help thinking they are somewhat scapegoating him for not abandoning the loop at the apex. I don't quite understand it because the report commented that flying tests of other hunters had revealed he could have recovered from the apex in 2600 feet and radar returns has him at 2700 feet agl (above ground level) therefore recovery was potentially possible. No comments on effects of warm day and effect on lift of wing in report, it was a very warm Indian summer day. i witnessed it and he went into the first part at 185 feet to apex at 2700 feet quicker than the rotation out of the loop from the apex to the accident. That's just doesn't make sense or wasn't explained. He may not have had a margin clearly but that doesn't mean the accident was primarily that fault, I suspect weather did play a part as it's known the lift coefficient of an aircraft wing is dependant upon air temperature and when he came near the ground I think that played its part with warmer circulating air near ground.I think too the aircraft may have had an engine problem , which the AAIB could not rule out, on the downward part and it's known many hunters have had such unexplained power loss problems as alluded by AAIB. He can't remember a thing from the accident as he was in a coma, but here is one theory . Not reaching his gate height of 3500 feet (the AAIB stated height he needs to complete the bottom part of loop with a 500 feet exit to level flight margin - his display authorisation only allowed display 500 feet above ground) , he had an engine issue not allowing him to reach a greater height. So he pulled out of the apex trying to sort the engine with the knowledge he had the airfield to ditch in, so performed a rolling loop. It just seems inconceivable that an experienced pilot would not reach gate height to give himself a margin. They said he looked down at the instruments from the cockpit camera to suggest he was conscious, but how can they know that from a rear camera of back of his helmet. I think he may have blacked out too which they hypothesised wouldn't be possible, but I'm not so sure. A ex pilot flying limited time in a serious machine compared to his Air Force career.

[walpurgis]

http://i65.tinypic.com/15s50kz.jpg

[Vinyl turner]

Way back when I joined this forum I was building a plinth for my Thorens TD124. I used as the basis for it, 3 layers of 1" MDF which I initially sealed in white paint and then began deciding upon final colour. The colour would be hidden by the outer plinth construction but by turning it upside down reveals the hidden mass of the plinth in its resplendent finished colour.
I began to formulate the idea for the colour from the body of an old Revox reel to reel tape player, which is moulded in similar fashion the 124 and finished in a nice olive green finish.
I had a eureka moment one day following a visit to the Elvington Air Museum. If you go on-line you can take an internal tour of their Halifax bomber - (take a look it is marvellous): the colour for my plinth was obvious. It is the colour the RAF used for all aircraft internal finishing.
The shade is not identical to the Revox but I prefer it anyhow and it has the RAF aircraft association.

13/03/2017 - revised to include photo & reference:

The Revox I mentioned above is the e36 as shown in this photo. I don't own one but felt the curves of the body/chasis were contemporary with those of the TD124. I took a liking to the colour and as stated above, opted for the RAF equivalent to spray my chassis.
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/17/d1/ac/17d1ac1303389ed811bfb84324e9cad7.jpg

[walpurgis]

http://i63.tinypic.com/14se61g.jpg

[Vinyl turner]

The final AAIB report which came out last week and can be read on the AAIB website is very interesting, but I can't help thinking they are somewhat scapegoating him for not abandoning the loop at the apex. I don't quite understand it because the report commented that flying tests of other hunters had revealed he could have recovered from the apex in 2600 feet and radar returns has him at 2700 feet agl (above ground level) therefore recovery was potentially possible. No comments on effects of warm day and effect on lift of wing in report, it was a very warm Indian summer day. i witnessed it and he went into the first part at 185 feet to apex at 2700 feet quicker than the rotation out of the loop from the apex to the accident. That's just doesn't make sense or wasn't explained. He may not have had a margin clearly but that doesn't mean the accident was primarily that fault, I suspect weather did play a part as it's known the lift coefficient of an aircraft wing is dependant upon air temperature and when he came near the ground I think that played its part with warmer circulating air near ground.I think too the aircraft may have had an engine problem , which the AAIB could not rule out, on the downward part and it's known many hunters have had such unexplained power loss problems as alluded by AAIB. He can't remember a thing from the accident as he was in a coma, but here is one theory . Not reaching his gate height of 3500 feet (the AAIB stated height he needs to complete the bottom part of loop with a 500 feet exit to level flight margin - his display authorisation only allowed display 500 feet above ground) , he had an engine issue not allowing him to reach a greater height. So he pulled out of the apex trying to sort the engine with the knowledge he had the airfield to ditch in, so performed a rolling loop. It just seems inconceivable that an experienced pilot would not reach gate height to give himself a margin. They said he looked down at the instruments from the cockpit camera to suggest he was conscious, but how can they know that from a rear camera of back of his helmet. I think he may have blacked out too which they hypothesised wouldn't be possible, but I'm not so sure. A ex pilot flying limited time in a serious machine compared to his Air Force career.
It was a bad year for accidents and I don't think the earlier crash involving the Folland Gnat helped the cause of air shows.
But while on the subject of Gnats (tenuous link intended) I, like others here, grew up in the 60s and many of my memories are of such aircraft. Cast your eye over this and see if you find it a prettier aircraft than the Hawk. Not forgetting of course that it was the Red Arrows workhorse for a good many years.

http://www.tangmere-museum.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Gnat-2.jpg

[walpurgis]

Cast your eye over this and see if you find it a prettier aircraft than the Hawk. Not forgetting of course that it was the Red Arrows workhorse for a good many years.

Dunno about the Hawk or Gnat, but this Northrop T-38 Talon is prettier than either:

http://i65.tinypic.com/f435z5.jpg

[CageyH]

I prefer the T45, as I have worked on it.

[Oddball]

The Folland Gnat was a beautiful little plane . Designed by Petter who became a monk later on in life (or so my recall of Douglas Baders 'Tribute to The Raf ' soundtrack remembered him!!)
I used to frequent the Boulton Paul Society at Wolverhampton ,for some time , about ten yrs ago , and there was a chap who's second name escapes me , but Don to us all , who took a Gnat trainer cockpit to airshows all over till he died a few yrs ago.
He was telling me (as I sat in it) how it was beneficial to be a slight person to fly the Gnat , because should you need the ejector seat , it was possible to get kneecapped as you banged your way out of the tight confines , catching the rim of the front hood !!:rolleyes:

[struth]

Aye he did in France, with a sort of commune. He was an odd character, but very clever. Had some input on the Spitfire too i seem to recall.

[Oddball]

http://i63.tinypic.com/14se61g.jpg

Did the Americans design that after capturing a Dornier Pfeil (Arrow );)

[walpurgis]

The Dornier was 'push pull', the Douglas XB-42 being a 'pusher' only to start with. I believe additional wing mounted jet motors were experimented with later. There have been many pusher type planes dating back to before WW1.

[Vinyl turner]

The Folland Gnat was a beautiful little plane . Designed by Petter who became a monk later on in life (or so my recall of Douglas Baders 'Tribute to The Raf ' soundtrack remembered him!!)


Aye, I have that LP and I was going to mention it on here as it is relevant to this thread. I must have had a copy since the late 60s/early 70s.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Salute-Sound-Anniversary-R-F/dp/B004AWZSKG

[Oddball]

Aye, I have that LP and I was going to mention it on here as it is relevant to this thread. I must have had a copy since the late 60s/early 70s.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Salute-Sound-Anniversary-R-F/dp/B004AWZSKG
Ha Ha , If you had it on CD like I did , nearly wore the part out on Merlin start ups ,wih the sound turned up to full !! :D And the bit where Bader recalls the Meteor 'trundling down the runway -like an old lorry!!! ) or where he tells of the Ligtening making this 'Frightful Noise' :eyebrows:
Me and my mate used to have it on time and time and again on our way to Coventry cutting up some Short 360's a few yrs ago , as they gave it out on CD ,with a copy of Flypast at one time !!
Those were the days !

[Vinyl turner]

Well, if that does it for you - this may just be what you need.
I never new what to make of Guy Martin, I rated him somewhere between indifferent and a bit of a t*s$**. After seeing a couple of these youtube clips and realising what his passion(s) are, I changed my mind.
He now gets my vote.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wkxrQOkNdc

[walpurgis]

I still think he's an annoying dick!

[Vinyl turner]

Are you sure you're just not prejudice against wolverines :D

[Oddball]

Well, if that does it for you - this may just be what you need.
I never new what to make of Guy Martin, I rated him somewhere between indifferent and a bit of a t*s$**. After seeing a couple of these youtube clips and realising what his passion(s) are, I changed my mind.
He now gets my vote.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wkxrQOkNdc
Very good entertainment Vt !! :) Yes , he is a real passionista !!
My friend runs an Alvis Leonaides engine on a trailer and I have had the pleasure of being stopman on a few occasions . Peter Grieves was next to us with his Merlin and the guy with the Griffon out of a Shackleton .
And latterly the guy with a Hercules engine , that was out of a Hastings (same as Halifax engine ) Heaven:stalks:

[Manicatel]

Well I worked for a very large British airline for 38 years, firstly as an aircraft engineer & then as cabin crew/ trolley-dolley.
Yes really.
After they finally found a way of getting rid of me, I'm now thoroughly enjoying my semi-retirement.
However, I do volunteer at Duxford IWM in the control tower, so I still have a strong connection with flying things.
Strictly For fun though, not to pay the bills.

[walpurgis]

A little treat for fans of WW2 fighters. Messerschmitt BF109 G10 doing the business. Beautiful plane! Turn the wick up, it sounds gorgeous.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnpC_BcK7xY

That's phenomenal sound from such a small aircraft.

[Oddball]

Nice !!!!

Heres another , just watch her do a low pass :eek:

http://www.warhistoryonline.com/guest-bloggers/newly-restored-messerschmitt-bf109g-flies-test-pilot-shares-experience.html

[walpurgis]

Grumman Bearcat! Amazing!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XcI1RCXXJU

Still the fastest piston engined plane ever. Just watch the power!

[ReggieB]

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/22/37/9f/22379f21d1c3eda7cad65179fb517402.jpg

[walpurgis]

Nonsense?

I know about the planes of the mind!

[walpurgis]

Next. Douglas A-26B Invader. One of the swiftest prop bombers and more aerobatic than any bomber is expected to be. Fast, mega powerful and beautiful!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iayVNS20rc

[ReggieB]

https://youtu.be/GMbuGQDBpxo

[walpurgis]

This thread was called 'Who Likes Planes?', but I felt obliged to change the name in order to deter jokers from arsing about with it!! :D

[CageyH]

A different era, but these are normally parked next to my office:

https://airwaysmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/a350-1000-ff-3.jpg

http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/Bynrl5lQOmc/maxresdefault.jpg

https://flyawaysimulation.com/media/images8/images/airbus-a380-landing.jpg

http://iccjet.iccjet.netdna-cdn.com/images/stories/aircraft_for_sale/airbus/a340-600/images/AIRBUS_A340-600_FOR_SALE_PHOTO_2.jpg

http://iccjet.iccjet.netdna-cdn.com/images/stories/aircraft_for_sale/airbus/a340-300/images/AIRBUS_A340-300_FOR_SALE_PHOTO_3.jpg

http://www.airbus.com/typo3temp/pics/81efc5ab0e.jpg

http://australianaviation.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/A320-NEO.jpg

http://cdn.airplane-pictures.net/images/uploaded-images/2016/10/3/787933.jpg

http://www.airbus.com/typo3temp/_processed_/csm_AD_08_c3c930ed97.jpg

Can you guess where I work? :eyebrows:

[Vinyl turner]

You may have guessed by the Star Wars trailer (edited version) - that I have a thing for the Vulcan.

If you like a howling engine (well four actually) try this turned up ......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNV4yv8N4mA

There are plenty of other more professionally filmed sequences but this captures the 'moment' nicely.

[Stryder5]

Everything from the Shuttleworth Collection.

http://www.shuttleworth.org/

[walpurgis]

One for the WW2 fighter aficionado's. A very pretty and rare Bell P-63 Kingcobra. Lovely sounding engine! It's an unusual design. The V12 engine sits behind and below the pilot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUuhLD6pQFA

[ReggieB]

This thread was called 'Who Likes Planes?', but I felt obliged to change the name in order to deter jokers from arsing about with it!! :D

I feel abandoned. However, it could be worse. I hear in Spain, in mainly rains on the aircraft.

[Oddball]

Grumman Bearcat! Amazing!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XcI1RCXXJU

Still the fastest piston engined plane ever. Just watch the power!
Sounds nice . Mind you , I always loved the Napier Sabre in the Typhoon

[Old boy]

Grumman Bearcat! Amazing!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XcI1RCXXJU

Still the fastest piston engined plane ever. Just watch the power!

The "Joker" produced a stunning flying display in a lovely Navy Bearcat at the Flying legends weekend Duxford last year or was the year before,anyway it was a great way to sign off a display

[walpurgis]

The Bearcat's monstrously powerful big brother, the Tigercat is incredibly aerobatic for a 'biggun'. Sounds sublime too!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIKBzeXUXLQ

I've seen just about all the well known WW2 and early fifties warplanes at shows at one time or another. Just love it.

Early jets are great too. The little Vampire is a treat to see flying.

[pgarrish]

You may have guessed by the Star Wars trailer (edited version) - that I have a thing for the Vulcan.

If you like a howling engine (well four actually) try this turned up ......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNV4yv8N4mA

There are plenty of other more professionally filmed sequences but this captures the 'moment' nicely.

That is epic, I was lucky enough to see the one of the last flights it did at Southport Airshow last year.
However I was also very lucky in that I worked at Warton for 4 years during Typhoon development, including watching him practice for the first Aerobatic display at Farnborough.. This little party trick is pretty cool:


https://youtu.be/EzkT0Y6Hdsk

[CageyH]

I was at Warton and Samlesbury sites during that time.

[struth]

Was thinking today after watching a TVs prog about what are the biggest gamechanger planes of all time and decided on Concorde and sr71 blackbird. Both I think are still best at what they did

[shane]

Was thinking today after watching a TVs prog about what are the biggest gamechanger planes of all time and decided on Concorde and sr71 blackbird. Both I think are still best at what they did

Both were astonishing feats of engineering and I still marvel at the enormity of both achievements, but I don't think either of them changed the aviation industry significantly. Sadly, the Boeing 747 was infinitely more influential than either.

Ask yourself how many people you know have been on a wide-body jet this year, gthen ask how many have ever gone supersonic!

[Old boy]

The Bearcat's monstrously powerful big brother, the Tigercat is incredibly aerobatic for a 'biggun'. Sounds sublime too!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIKBzeXUXLQ

I've seen just about all the well known WW2 and early fifties warplanes at shows at one time or another. Just love it.

Early jets are great too. The little Vampire is a treat to see flying.

I drive past this Vampire most mornings on my way to work

XK625 D.H.115 Vampire T.11
http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j398/quad57/7987421C-AD00-4167-A309-D8ED5EABE8E7.png
Would love to see some wealthy warbird nut restore this ship to her former glory.

[Dynamics]

Parkie, can you explain to me why it is that when an airliner comes into land you often see of videos from behind that the elevators pulse up in a pumping motion. So when Concorde used to land it's Elevons would repetitively and continually pump up. Are the pilots inputting these pumping inputs or are the computers doing it to the extent that whatever position they hold the yoke or side stick, the computers will pump the elevators etc to give the right amounts of holding the tail in position in the flare. In lighter non fly by wire aircraft , control inputs are obviously proportional, but maybe this isn't the case in airliners where due to weights involved pumping is the only way to maintain the moment arc and keeping the aircraft in the flare before touch down.

[walpurgis]

THIS is great! I want one.

http://mashable.com/2017/04/20/flying-cars-hit-the-skies/#pAe8I1XIAmqf

[struth]

Cool gadget

[JohnJo]

Was thinking today after watching a TVs prog about what are the biggest gamechanger planes of all time and decided on Concorde and sr71 blackbird. Both I think are still best at what they did

Im not particularly into planes but have to admit I was a bit taken with the SR71 Blackbird in the air and space museum in Washington DC (was traveling with work at the time).

Here's a couple of photos. I'm the one in the white T-shirt (a lot skinnier here than now mind!).

http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee462/castle48/Planes/F01D6947-8603-447C-ABAD-2E1E0319AAF7.jpg (http://s1229.photobucket.com/user/castle48/media/Planes/F01D6947-8603-447C-ABAD-2E1E0319AAF7.jpg.html)

http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee462/castle48/Planes/0F88E3FA-9F44-4FAB-9E71-22986BDB378C.jpg (http://s1229.photobucket.com/user/castle48/media/Planes/0F88E3FA-9F44-4FAB-9E71-22986BDB378C.jpg.html)

Interesting story here, nice average speed!
http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee462/castle48/Planes/578B6289-8E47-4074-9147-F895CE8535DB.jpg (http://s1229.photobucket.com/user/castle48/media/Planes/578B6289-8E47-4074-9147-F895CE8535DB.jpg.html)

Only bettered by this bad boy in orbit
http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee462/castle48/Planes/B351C285-2825-40AD-AF0D-09EB7FDDBDB6.jpg (http://s1229.photobucket.com/user/castle48/media/Planes/B351C285-2825-40AD-AF0D-09EB7FDDBDB6.jpg.html)
http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee462/castle48/Planes/C390831B-1EF8-4ADA-A8DD-D27B1D2D434B.jpg (http://s1229.photobucket.com/user/castle48/media/Planes/C390831B-1EF8-4ADA-A8DD-D27B1D2D434B.jpg.html)

[JohnJo]

THIS is great! I want one.

http://mashable.com/2017/04/20/flying-cars-hit-the-skies/#pAe8I1XIAmqf

That IS pretty cool :D

[struth]

Great pictures John. its quite a machine considering its vintage.

[walpurgis]

Im not particularly into planes but have to admit I was a bit taken with the SR71 Blackbird

The Blackbird was unofficially flown to speeds approaching 3000 mph. Still not as quick as the amazing X-15 though. That was capable of over 4500 mph, but that used pure rocket power, not jets.

http://i64.tinypic.com/294114w.jpg

Just noticed this picture is a mirror image. The logo on the tail should say NASA!

[Haselsh1]

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab240/Haselsh1/Lightning%20F3%20with%20vapour_zpslulxkuem.jpg (http://s867.photobucket.com/user/Haselsh1/media/Lightning%20F3%20with%20vapour_zpslulxkuem.jpg.htm l)


One of my best shots from the early eighties at RAF Binbrook. English Electric Lightning F3 undergoing aerobatics over the airfield on a beautiful summers day. Can't really tell the squadron marking but I think it is an LTF aircraft. We were prepared for this as we had a radio with us and listened to the conversations. Beautiful days long ago now.

[Haselsh1]

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab240/Haselsh1/T5%20Lightning%20at%20RAF%20Binbrook_zps0ritbwix.j pg (http://s867.photobucket.com/user/Haselsh1/media/T5%20Lightning%20at%20RAF%20Binbrook_zps0ritbwix.j pg.html)

T5 trainer Lightning at RAF Binbrook around 1985 shot using a Bronica ETRS with 75mm lens

[JohnJo]

Great pictures John. its quite a machine considering its vintage.

Agreed. The engineering is phenomenal, especially given its radar dodging capabilities. Mind you I think it could outrun a missile anyway. I think they even had to develop a new fuel for it. Such an aggressive looking thing too, it looks like it performs. This is what you get thinking outside the box and an appropriate budget. Here's another couple of pics.
http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee462/castle48/Planes/7126E900-ECC4-40D9-A002-49D5EFAA5085.jpg (http://s1229.photobucket.com/user/castle48/media/Planes/7126E900-ECC4-40D9-A002-49D5EFAA5085.jpg.html)
http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee462/castle48/Planes/6567BD93-D5C4-4463-A0A7-7E917C8B1FEA.jpg (http://s1229.photobucket.com/user/castle48/media/Planes/6567BD93-D5C4-4463-A0A7-7E917C8B1FEA.jpg.html)

[JohnJo]

The Blackbird was unofficially flown to speeds approaching 3000 mph. Still not as quick as the amazing X-15 though. That was capable of over 4500 mph, but that used pure rocket power, not jets.

http://i64.tinypic.com/294114w.jpg

Just noticed this picture is a mirror image. The logo on the tail should say NASA!

Very interesting Geoff. Just read the Wikipedia page. Had an ejector seat you could use at Mach 4! All the best with that:eek:

[Dynamics]

Concorde and interesting stuff.

There is a video on you tube interviewing ex Concorde captain John Hutchinson. I watched it and learnt some new stuff about Concorde adding to my own knowledge as an aviation enthusiast myself, which I think is fascinating.

Firstly when Concorde got up to mach 1 the shock wave created by breaking the sound barrier pushed the centre of lift back down the wing. Quite how that happens by the shock wave I'm not sure, but it's probably due to the physical force it exerts on the normal point on the wing where the lift is generated, which is what the centre of lift is. Much akin to being able to blow the force of bass out of a speaker if you have a powerful fan. Lift is of course generated by the static pressure differences exerted on the upper and lower sections of the wing by Bernoulli's principle. This is basically because of the shape of a wing or aerofoil. As the top surface is curved, air moves faster and it exerts a lower static pressure relative to the lower surface where the static pressure is relatively higher. This difference in pressure creates upwards lift from a wing. Static pressure is the force on a surface by molecules in air, so if you hold a piece of paper out in front of you and blow on its top surface you effectively reduce the chance of those molecules having a static pressure effect because they are moved away. The paper will move up. Bernoullis principle in action.

But back to Concorde because this shock wave, which is often seen as condensed air separating around the nose of a supersonic aircraft and forming a ring, meant fuel has to be pumped backwards at supersonic speeds. The centre of lift was, according to Hutchinson around 8 feet rearward of its normal position at supersonic speeds. Because the centre of lift is rearward, but centre of gravity remains at the same more forward point, the fuel in concordes front tanks had to be pumped rearward to stop the aircraft pitching down as nose heavy weight is not balanced with the centre of lift moving back. When Concorde got to sub sonic speeds the fuel had to be pumped back forward, but of course as the aircraft went from Mach 1 to Mach 2 (about 1350mph) more and more fuel would be pumped back.

Also interesting is that concordes wing which uses elevons (ailerons and elevators in one) managed to create lift on landing by its high angle of attack relative to the airflow. So when we used to watch it come in with its nose high (that's why it needed the drop nose incidentally) it was this high angle of attack creating lift. In landing at high angles of attack, air on the upper surface of concordes wing was slowed because of its high angle presentation to the airflow, meaning air has to travel a longer distance up and around the top surface, compared to under it. But not only that but the wing was designed to set up swirling vortices on its upper surface at this high angle of attack which further created lower pressure and slowed air on the top surface. According to Hutchinson this was finely balanced in Concorde on landing and it was only just about sufficient lift to enable it to land safely, but speeds no doubt would have really been rightly controllled on landing to prevent a stall. But concordes wing could not generate lift coming in flat to land like a conventional airliner and also on take off the same principle that the wing was not at an angle to the airflow, apparently meant that concordes speed on the ground could be exceptionally high and it would not take off by itself like a 737/747 etc could and some other light aircraft. Only on adding in up elevator (or elevon) during the take off role and by presenting the wing to the airflow at an angle of attack would Concorde take off. But at much higher speeds it could fly flat due to the speeds involved.

But the way Concorde used its engine ramp intakes is even more interesting as it enabled this aircraft to slow down the air into a conventional jet engine from 1350mph to around 300-400 mph in around 8 feet. A conventional Olympus jet engine which Concorde used cannot process supersonic air, so these double ramps on the intakes set up another shock wave to slow this air down. That's fascinating too, as if concordes ramps did not do this, the Concorde project would have been over. It's ability too to not need afterburner or reheats (pumping neat fuel into the engine nozzles and letting them effectively act like a rocket) past Mach 1, meant it could do what's called 'super cruise' i.e. Fly supersonic without burning reheat fuel. This added to concordes range as it would have been limited with using huge amounts of fuel by reheat, in excess of Mach 1. But apparently there is no jet fighter aircraft that actually can fly past Mach 1 without reheat, even when you consider latest aircraft made. And Concorde was a 1960's project not even designed on computers.

The other thing I didn't know was Concorde used rollers under its floor to aid the expansion of the aircraft as it reached supersonic speeds.

I can understand the commercial pressure that stopped this aircraft flying and airbus stopping support for it, which basically meant nobody could service it, but haven't we gone back in time taking it out of service. It's now 14 years since it last flew. I just can't believe that we have taken a backwards step for aviation when you consider also the airframes were all young in landing cycle terms. Bring it back!

[Firebottle]

As the top surface is curved, air moves faster ....

The air does NOT move faster on the top surface of an aerofoil wing.
This is a total fallacy that has been promulgated by its re-telling.

There is absolutely no reason that the air must recombine at the trailing edge at the same time.

[Dynamics]

Air has the same fluid motion as water around an aero foil in water. How do you account the differences in static pressure that account lift. Newtons laws is the only other explanation. But how do you reach your view ?

[struth]

The air does NOT move faster on the top surface of an aerofoil wing.
This is a total fallacy that has been promulgated by its re-telling.

There is absolutely no reason that the air must recombine at the trailing edge at the same time.

True... Think its to do with low pressure atop and higher pressure below and its the curved shape that causes it

[Dynamics]

But with respect that misses the issue of the effects of static pressure and Bernoullis principle which equally applies to water and air. Bernoulli theory remember is that the faster a body of air over a surface the less static pressure that can be applied or exerted . That's what made Concorde so good because the pressure differences were applied by high angle of attack.

[struth]

Dont think it always does. Yes there are more than one way of looking at things re him and newton

[walpurgis]

I was going to go on about venturi effects, but I can't be bothered.

[Firebottle]

But how do you reach your view ?

It's been proven by wind tunnel tests, with very clear diagrammatic evidence.
If I could remember where I saw I would post a link. :scratch:

[CageyH]

I can understand the commercial pressure that stopped this aircraft flying and airbus stopping support for it, which basically meant nobody could service it, but haven't we gone back in time taking it out of service. It's now 14 years since it last flew. I just can't believe that we have taken a backwards step for aviation when you consider also the airframes were all young in landing cycle terms. Bring it back!

In the current era, it is all about reducing costs and the ecological impact of aircraft.
Having something powered by four Olympus engines travelling at Mach 2 just does not fit not this way of thinking.
Keeping the older technology going with the amount of obsolescence would also be a significant challenge.

[Dynamics]

All the wind tunnel tests I've watched show smoked air going around a wing, and you can clearly see it's faster on the top surface. Breaking up as the wing angle of attack becomes excessive, which is what the stall is, and why you get stall buffet when flying light aircraft. The air hits the tailplane and causes this buffet.

I respect others views and am not putting people down, but would love to understand how you think Bernoulli is wrong or 'venturi' effects cause the effects.

Bernoullis principle also not only explains lift over a wing but the effects of high and low pressure on either side of a control surface. So when the right aileron goes up, the static pressure is increased by virtue of the aieleron slowing the air over the top surface by moving up. The opposite on the left wing, with the left aileron going down, causes the differential lift and hence banking to the right. The same happens with the elevators and rudder in the pitching and yawing planes. Also Bernoulli accounts why if air hits the tail plane and moves the tailplane to the right, it's right surface has a higher static pressure because the big keel surface of the tail plane presented to the air flow, slows the air down. The pressure difference to the left side of the tailplane means the tailplane moves back in line. The same thing happens with the elevators and a dihedral wing, but concorde had a anhedral wing and no elevators or horizontal stabiliser.

https://youtu.be/q_eMQvDoDWk

[Haselsh1]

A wing is curved on the top surface thus giving the air over that surface further to travel. This makes that air slower and so decreases the pressure atop the wing creating a partial vacuum. This is the cause of the lift experienced by that aerofoil.

[Dynamics]

A wing is curved on the top surface thus giving the air over that surface further to travel. This makes that air slower and so decreases the pressure atop the wing creating a partial vacuum. This is the cause of the lift experienced by that aerofoil.

I think though it has to be explained by the effect on a surface doesn't it?, which is what is said when referring to static pressure ie the pressure on a surface. Air can't have a different static pressure by virtue of moving slower or faster, it can have different energy, since static pressure does refer to the effect on a surface.

Also you can have a symmetrical aerofoil (curved equally on top to bottom) generate lift by its incidence to the fuselage. This is what aerobatic aircraft like extras and sukhois use but I agree with the sentiment of your point which is effectively to do this in a different way using incidence. That's what Concorde was effectively doing when landing. However the air actually moves faster over the top surface whisking away away those air molecules to exert a pressure on the wing upper surface hence reducing static pressure on the upper wing surface.

[Haselsh1]

The air on the top of a wing cannot move faster than that below as it has farther to travel. This is what results in the low pressure that results in lift. This is basic GCSE physics.

[CageyH]

I don't think you remember you GCSE very well, and I do not agree with you.

http://www.explainthatstuff.com/howplaneswork.html

[struth]

I don't think you remember you GCSE very well, and I do not agree with you.

http://www.explainthatstuff.com/howplaneswork.html

Hey, i was right lol

[Dynamics]

Hey, i was right lol

Yes because the curved top surface is longer than the flater under surface, so the air is accelerated. When the airstream meets the wing leading edge some of it goes over the top and the rest under the wing, but it must meet at the trailing edge at the same point - this is part of fluid or air dynamics. As the top surface is longer the air must have travelled faster for the same time it got from the leading edge to trailing edge for air going under the wing.

But if it's to do with wing incidence in a aerobatic aerofoil which often has a symmetrical wing (same curve on top as on bottom), the wing must be angled up at the airflow where it's fitted to the fuselage, to create the acceleration of air over the top. If it wasn't angled up the air over the top and bottom would travel the same speed, there would be no static pressure differences, and the wing would not generate lift.

[Ali Tait]

No, the air is not accelerated. It is forced downwards towards the trailing edge of the aerofoil, creating a lower pressure, due to the angle of attack of the wing, this also means the air is compressed below the wing, giving higher pressure. This is what creates lift, NOT faster airflow over the top of the wing.

[Dynamics]

No, the air is not accelerated. It is forced downwards towards the trailing edge of the aerofoil, creating a lower pressure, due to the angle of attack of the wing, this also means the air is compressed below the wing, giving higher pressure. This is what creates lift, NOT faster airflow over the top of the wing.


It is accelerated because it must get to to same point at the trailing edge as the air going underneath. It's forced downwards yes, as the aerofoil surface angles away downwards on the top of the wing.

A conventional aerofoil wing shape doesn't have to be at an angle of attack to the airflow to create lift though. Angle of attack is simply the angle of the wing to the airflow. If the wing is flat with the airflow, lift will happen as airflow speed increases, otherwise an aircraft with a wing with limited incidence to the fuselage would not generate lift. I've made radio control model aeroplanes with no wing incidence (to create an angle of attack in level fligh) but they fly with the throttle in the same position and maintain height. This is just lift over the wing at a certain speed with the wing at no angle of attack to the airflow.

Compression of air doesn't explain static pressure acting on a surface and by bernoullis theory that the faster it travels the less static pressure can occur. My point is it's this differential between static pressure on the upper and lower surfaces which creates an upward lifting force.

[Dynamics]

No, the air is not accelerated. It is forced downwards towards the trailing edge of the aerofoil, creating a lower pressure, due to the angle of attack of the wing, this also means the air is compressed below the wing, giving higher pressure. This is what creates lift, NOT faster airflow over the top of the wing.


It is accelerated because it must get to to same point at the trailing edge as the air going underneath. It's forced downwards yes, as the aerofoil surface angles away downwards on the top of the wing.

A conventional aerofoil wing shape doesn't have to be at an angle of attack to the airflow to create lift though. Angle of attack is simply the angle of the wing to the airflow. If the wing is flat with the airflow, lift will happen as airflow speed increases, otherwise an aircraft with a wing with limited incidence to the fuselage would not generate lift. I've made radio control model aeroplanes with no wing incidence (to create an angle of attack in level fligh) but they fly with the throttle in the same position and maintain height. This is just lift over the wing at a certain speed with the wing at no angle of attack to the airflow.

Compression of air doesn't explain static pressure acting on a surface and by bernoullis theory that the faster it travels the less static pressure can occur. My point is it's this differential between static pressure on the upper and lower surfaces which creates an upward lifting force.

[CageyH]

It's all based on this - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernoulli's_principle

A lower pressure exists above the wing (due to the increased velocity of the air passing over the top skin) which is what creates lift.
When more lift is required, the effective curvature is increased with the addition of slats, flaps and other high lift devices.

[Dynamics]

Yes I totally agree on that with slats and flaps etc, but also lift relative to speed etc. but the reason why Bernoulli found faster air or water has less pressure, is because of its effect on a surface. Without any effect on a surface and just saying fast air has less pressure doesn't explain it, since fast air cannot exert a pressure if there is no surface. This is called static pressure,ie pressure of air molecules acting on a surface. Think of it as the amount of air molecules that can bounce on and off a surface exerting pressure affected by how quickly or not they are moved away. The more moved away by faster air the less static pressure. He also referred to it as Venturi effects ie passing water and air through a wide and narrow pipe which is the same thing.

As already said it's because the air around a surface is whisked away it can have less static pressure on a surface. What's happening when you have a shower and the curtain gets sucked to your body is because the fast shower water and air it moves is creating low pressure on one side of the curtain. The air is being whisked away from one side of the curtain by the fast flowing water, so the static pressure is less relative to the other side of the curtain, where the air is not whisked away relatively as much. So the static pressure is greater on the outside surface. Hence you have two pressure differences acting on both sides of the shower curtain.

I've understood this from reading my pooleys aeroplane technical manual and as a hobby pilot myself (mainly gliders). It's very interesting and I'll take some pics of the relevant pages. It's interesting how the proper explanation of how wings work is not often explained online etc by static pressure differences

[walpurgis]

Wicked Bearcat!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XcI1RCXXJU

[Vinyl turner]

The LP that forms my avatar is one of the first records I remember hearing. It was one of my fathers and when he passed away a few years ago I inherited his small collection of vinyl.

It wasn't until recently acquiring a Croft Vitale pre-amp that I began going through albums I haven't listened to for a long time and seeing as though I use this one on here I thought it was due a spin.

It is mostly pishanto !! but the recording quality is good on some tracks and there is a decent rendition of 633 Squadron. I think it was this track (which I'd forgotten about) that attracted me to the LP in the first place. Anyway it brought back happy memories of when that was one of my favourite films and reminded me just how much I like Mosquitos.

It also demonstrates yet again that link between music and aircraft, tenuous though it may be. A combination that provides a time machine.

PS - isn't the cover an image of 'Concorde' going through the sound barrier ??

[Manicatel]

Anyway it brought back happy memories of when that was one of my favourite films and reminded me just how much I like Mosquitos.

Another Mosquito lover here.
If you haven't read it, the book "The walls came tumbling down" by Jack Fishman, about the raid on the jail at Amiens is a very good read.
The raid flew from Hunsdon airfield, which is very close to where I now live. Its now a micro-light flying club. There is a (to my mind) fairly insignificant memorial to the crew of the raid there.
It amazes me, how many people drive past there without knowing anything about the history of that airfield. But then I guess you could say that about a lot of WW2 airfields that have gone back to being farmers fields.
Matt.

[Vinyl turner]

.......
The raid flew from Hunsdon airfield, which is very close to where I now live. Its now a micro-light flying club. There is a (to my mind) fairly insignificant memorial to the crew of the raid there.
It amazes me, how many people drive past there without knowing anything about the history of that airfield. But then I guess you could say that about a lot of WW2 airfields that have gone back to being farmers fields.
Matt.
I agree - for years I'd driven up & down the A1 and knew the Black Cat roundabout and the signposted village of Tempsford nearby. I then read a book about the SOE and the Lysander pilots who dropped them off across occupied Europe, most of which (if not all) flew from what was then RAF Tempsford.

Likewise, further north is the strangely named Woolfox (Depot) which was a missile site in the early days of the Cold War, but had previously been a night-fighter base.

[Haselsh1]

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab240/Haselsh1/Gibraltar%20Farm%202016_zpszthdnqcw.jpg (http://s867.photobucket.com/user/Haselsh1/media/Gibraltar%20Farm%202016_zpszthdnqcw.jpg.html)


Gibraltar Farm, the code name for RAF Tempsford and a shot of the famous barn. The last place in England these glorious people saw before being parachuted into enemy France.
There is an amazing tribute in the centre of the village to those who never made it home.

[Oddball]

Great stories Men !!! keep it up.!!
The Mosquito was a real beauty . I very often used to see the one from RAF Hawarden in North Wales come to Whixall Moss by us ,and spent 15 mins or so doing acrobatics . She was the one that crashed a few yrs later (cant remember her serial):(
Truthfully ,it was almost as good as sex , watching her roll and dive , and a thing I will never forget !

[walpurgis]

The English Electric Canberra was a great plane. Fast for its time and very agile. Noisy bugger though.

Here's a nice clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ER4tfH2Szoc

[Vinyl turner]

Great stories Men !!! keep it up.!!
The Mosquito was a real beauty . I very often used to see the one from RAF Hawarden in North Wales come to Whixall Moss by us ,and spent 15 mins or so doing acrobatics . She was the one that crashed a few yrs later (cant remember her serial):(
Truthfully ,it was almost as good as sex , watching her roll and dive , and a thing I will never forget !

You were a lucky guy to see that, I never did sees flying one. There is a static Mossy in the Yorkshire Air Museum at Elvington and there was a great website from a guy building one from scratch in New Zealand which I think is now living in N America.

I have a book somewhere called Mosquito Racer, which is by and about a Canadian pilot who flew in the air ferry service during WWII and in later years entered the air races in N America where planes such as Mustangs were prominent. He decided that what he needed to take those guys on was an agile plane and decided two RR Merlin engines would do nicely ..... The rest of the story is all about getting set up and entering the races with a Mossy.
An unusual story and very interesting. I seem to recall a few of the people involved were quite frightened by this thing as it took a bit of handling !!

.........Don't get me started !

[Vinyl turner]

The English Electric Canberra was a great plane. Fast for its time and very agile. Noisy bugger though.

Here's a nice clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ER4tfH2Szoc

Very nice too. I remember as a kid having a double treat if we had a day out to Blackpool (or that NW coast) as my Dad always drove from W Yorkshire towards Preston and went past the EE factory (which I think) was at Wharton. There always seemed to be Lightenings & Canberras lined up parallel to the road near the hangers.
Come to think of it, I preferred seeing them to the rest of the day at the coast !

In the mid 70s I was in the ATC and spent a summer camp at RAF Wyton, so it was Canberras all week. Especially remember the weird looking ones flown by the ECM Squadron/development team.

What great times to have lived.

[walpurgis]

The Mosquito was a real beauty . I very often used to see the one from RAF Hawarden in North Wales come to Whixall Moss by us ,and spent 15 mins or so doing acrobatics . She was the one that crashed a few yrs later (cant remember her serial):(
Truthfully ,it was almost as good as sex , watching her roll and dive , and a thing I will never forget !

I saw that Mosquito at the North Weald 'Fighter Meet' over twenty years ago. Sounded like a cross between a Lancaster and Spitfire (naturally enough :)). Lovely plane!


I also saw the Grumman Tiger Cat there and it was even more spectacular for a twin prop piston job. Amazingly powerful and acrobatic. Later generation of plane though.

One here. Incredible plane. And the speed and sound................ :eek: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1uTPNsA9mg

[CageyH]

Very nice too. I remember as a kid having a double treat if we had a day out to Blackpool (or that NW coast) as my Dad always drove from W Yorkshire towards Preston and went past the EE factory (which I think) was at Wharton. There always seemed to be Lightenings & Canberras lined up parallel to the road near the hangers.
Come to think of it, I preferred seeing them to the rest of the day at the coast !

In the mid 70s I was in the ATC and spent a summer camp at RAF Wyton, so it was Canberras all week. Especially remember the weird looking ones flown by the ECM Squadron/development team.

What great times to have lived.

There are Lightning and Canberra gate guardians at Warton and Samlesbury, so you can still see them.

[struth]

I saw that Mosquito at the North Weald 'Fighter Meet' over twenty years ago. Sounded like a cross between a Lancaster and Spitfire (naturally enough :)). Lovely plane!


I also saw the Grumman Tiger Cat there and it was even more spectacular for a twin prop piston job. Amazingly powerful and acrobatic. Later generation of plane though.

One here. Incredible plane. And the speed and sound................ :eek: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1uTPNsA9mg

The tiger cat was nearly the skyrocket until it blew up

http://www.arcair.com/Fea1/001-100/Fea019-Skyrocket-Dalton/19_7.jpg

[walpurgis]

The tiger cat was nearly the skyrocket until it blew up

The Skyrocket was a similar but older concept. The Tigercat has nearly twice the power.

[Vinyl turner]

The nose & cockpit of the Skyrocket (never heard of this one before) is quite reminiscent of the Bristol Beaufighter.
It doesn't look very aero-dynamic, but an interesting design.

[walpurgis]

Gloster Gladiator!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hD60aJ9I9LI

[walpurgis]

Ridiculous! It will crash. Torsional effects from the mass of the two fuselages will tear the central wing apart. It's the only thing holding them together.

http://www.oregonlive.com/today/index.ssf/2017/06/paul_allen_unveils_worlds_bigg.html

[struth]

must be April :scratch: dont fancy trying it

[walpurgis]

Hawker Sea Fury display. Beautiful prop fighter. Great power & speed!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kJh47BMTRo

[walpurgis]

Dassault Rafale display. Tremendous pilot skills here. Entire display on afterburners.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsVAO_U78Qg

[hifilover]

Dassault Rafale display. Tremendous pilot skills here. Entire display on afterburners.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsVAO_U78Qg

Absolutely superb!

[hifilover]

I remember (albeit I was very young) these flying around Preston after being made at Samlesbury

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTr2UvLqfkQ&t=1s

I was at it's last/one of the last displays, I was 8 when it flew at Middenhall IIRC

That and the SR71... Ooph; they get me wet :D :lol:

[walpurgis]

North Weald 'Fly In' next weekend. This is usually pretty good, with many classic warplanes displaying. Dead easy to get to from the south east, round M25 to M11 and turn right about a mile up. Quite a cheap day out too.

http://i65.tinypic.com/suu994.png

[walpurgis]

F22 Raptor, doing things that are just not normal!! :eek:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4J7D9AGarE

[CageyH]

This week I have started working on a new project.

http://pre07.deviantart.net/1f32/th/pre/f/2017/124/6/c/airbus_beluga_xl_by_emigepa-db82fro.jpg

It's going to be an interesting time for the next few months.

[walpurgis]

Hmmm. Yers. :)

[struth]

https://youtu.be/-rRR5prazcM

[narabdela]

For all the Spitfire fans.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ie3SrjLlcUY

[Spectral Morn]

Great pictures John. its quite a machine considering its vintage.

Question is what do they have now that hasn't been revealed yet. SR71 60s Tech, Stealth Fighter late 60s Tech, stealth Bomber 70s Tech. So since then what have they been building and testing at Groom Lake ?

Those revelations will be very interesting.

[Spectral Morn]

https://youtu.be/-rRR5prazcM

Wow. Nice model. One of my favourite jet fighters, along side the ME 262.

[JohnJo]

https://youtu.be/-rRR5prazcM

That was seriously cool!

[Spectral Morn]

That was seriously cool!

I wonder how easy the model is to fly, because the real thing required skill as the design wasn't the most stable thing in the air.

[struth]

for the seriously experienced as far as I know. There were others including a big chopper, but like Neil I liked the starfighter. Was a fast and stable plane mostly although they had a lot of engine problems

[walpurgis]

Sorry. Couldn't resist posting another Tigercat video. This is my favourite prop plane. Just sensational performance, so agile for a big job too. Sounds incredible!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1uTPNsA9mg

[Haselsh1]

Oh wow, absolutely loved the Starfighter and used to watch them on exchange at RAF Binbrook in Lincolnshire back in the early eighties.

[struth]

https://youtu.be/y_dJfq8u1aE

[walpurgis]

I thought I'd revitalise this thread with something good. Convair B-36, early cold war era bomber. Amazing thing!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sM1CZdppWrU

I only ever saw one once, flying over at a fair altitude when I was in my teens.

[struth]

ah, yes.. I vaguely remember those beasts... they had six piston engines and four jets on them.lol and dwarfed a b52.

[walpurgis]

I don't suppose a low pass filter would work here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tz1hhx8yxyU

[andyrlb]

My ex neighbour was a pilot whom owned an acrobatic plane , he invited me out for a pleasure flight out of Cranfield airport one beautiful May morning, my god never ever am I doing that again !! I literally turned green .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Firebottle]

I don't suppose a low pass filter would work here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tz1hhx8yxyU

Lowpass filter - lol.
2:40 takes the biscuit.

[hifilover]

Lowpass filter - lol.
2:40 takes the biscuit.

Great innit... :D Mad Russians haha

I've been to the Mach Loop once; was a great day (cold and crisp)

Having worked at BAE for a few years back in early 2000s; got to see some daft flying above Warton and remember as a kid watching the planes fly stupid runs around Samlesbury too. Always knew when a Lightning was up in the air ;)

[walpurgis]

Always knew when a Lightning was up in the air ;)

I saw and heard (obviously) a Lightning break the sound barrier about three hundred feet above me and turn up into a vertical power climb. Spectacular stuff!!

That was at Leuchars very many years ago. The main fighter based there at the time was Gloster Javelins saw loads of those bombing about.

Lightning: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTr2UvLqfkQ

[hifilover]

I saw and heard (obviously) a Lightning break the sound barrier about three hundred feet above me and turn up into a vertical power climb. Spectacular stuff!!

That was at Leuchars very many years ago. The main fighter based there at the time was Gloster Javelins saw loads of those bombing about.

TBH the nosiest and daftest flyers I remember as a kid in the early 80s were the Jaguars and Tornado Panavia ones... Fruit loops!

[walpurgis]

Noisiest plane I ever heard was the VC10. Even louder than Concorde and the Vulcan. People forget how fast the VC10 was, it had amazing performance.

[hifilover]

Noisiest plane I ever heard was the VC10. Even louder than Concorde and the Vulcan. People forget how fast the VC10 was, it had amazing performance.

Marmite looks too; still cool though!

Fastest I saw was the SR71; now that scared the hell outta me! It was 'pootling' as they said; took from RAF Valley to nearly Paris to slow down enough to turn around on a 'training' run...!

Don't think they had Nectar points then for fuel :D

[struth]

I was doing 70 in the car today. [emoji23]

[hifilover]

I was doing 70 in the car today. [emoji23]

Bless... :D

[Lawrence001]

I grew up in northern Lincolnshire and occasionally saw the Lightnings flying over en route from RAF Binbrook, which was I think the last base they operated from. But, other than a Tornado flying over me and crashing a few hundred meters away at disused RAF Manby (the crew fortunately ejecting shortly before impact after guiding it towards that safe place), the memory that sticks with me the most was the deep grumble of the A10s firing their chain guns at targets at RAF Donna Nook about 10 miles away, I heard them most weeks for several years while at school.

Sent from my BLN-L21 using Tapatalk

[walpurgis]

Here's a treat, Hawker Sea Fury doing the business. Possibly the greatest pre-jet fighter. That engine sounds incredible, some real power and speed. Magnificent!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPsujZ6994g

[ReggieB]

I'm building a Lancaster at the moment. It was given to me as a Christmas Present a couple of years ago and has been sitting in my study lurking in a suspicious manner. And as my wife has been on at me to tidy the study, I thought I should build it, then I can chuck it out (I may be weird, but as a lad I loved building models, but once built I lost interest - seems some things don't change). Any way building it while listening to some albums is a very relaxing way to spend an afternoon.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/ujO5JxqhpWl4bTdlYdbhkePbKHtVKqzY7_nIG1fh9HKCgLACAQ b1APc1ImZffL0CNF3sVMXCJs6M7EuUhnHWq9FP0uNN0eB2ApEG _aT_C7YWEd8EQfihicx1dIjPFTHCnewHQlyzSvfMoTy61IUUuw yyVMOJffcz7a8e_QBiqMlMpcRLfE0k5lSetinW-Z_syPEGPdAKr1oo5eo9slloWQ8HXQ6Wflqd-M4I0CvQGeGCuXNAZurJ4trf4tQ87ninmCVeMxfuBT-96V1sQ8ZTk6dU9AjJfeG6pjg6-MWI3YrJ6wqfZHJQvXSgiQYi5YXsjkpVas8bPi38JvMuATl8k0l fFtfkwGBi8n5idwGaY3ZrOaRqoyJxiVhL0K_xSjA9yaf6olVvF _RN2jjZFJTMvpZkjmAcyO68uOvuvzUAjHNqeVJuGNJ-jXIPbdbYBuW3dWfPP2XmEmPg06qiW5gB3_OQYJGAwpGYRadJq8 MImL3uobV8dEaS8s-Pg0KTRoIy0W4A9Pa0MSkTT977KLhpqH2LQCY7GWY5vVn6xlgeq G7BAQldTC0CzAph8Kv-MQ_IiMdnuegelOFdvN9riMh_L4Kmx2E44drxnintj6LX4UYn_b BGalFBdi_u4BagYjx_I2PYyTlWjzEF-qThSfekXF5Sfk5z_e4kNG297ZU9ZNelZsnzTfnKdlqh=w434-h770-no

[Lawrence001]

Does it have the H2S radome on the bottom?

Sent from my BLN-L21 using Tapatalk

[ReggieB]

No.

[shane]

Well-known SR-71 story:


https://youtu.be/Lg73GKm7GgI

[walpurgis]

Big old beast from the Korea War era. Douglas Skyraider, very nice! Not seen at airshows very often.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvkW9u_PaWE

[walpurgis]

This really shouldn't be possible!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26s1fDrdoXA

[Stryder5]

Go to Old Warden and stand behind any old planes with rotary engines, bath in the noise and castor oil.

Oh and wear old clothes.....

Gary

[Oddball]

Go to Old Warden and stand behind any old planes with rotary engines, bath in the noise and castor oil.

Oh and wear old clothes.....

Gary

A few years ago ,I went to Fairford with a mate who volunteered at Classic Flight ,Baginton , Coventry.
We flew from there to Fairford and back to Coventry later in the day.
One of the passengers in the Dakota , was sitting behind us and alongside the wing , and he asked my mate why all the black oil was streaming along the top of the wing surface?

Mate told him not to worry unless it caught fire :lol: He looked frightened to death poor lad !!!:)

[walpurgis]

We got the F35, it would have been nice if they'd chosen the F22 instead.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_DN7Ky_CUg

[Oddball]

Here's a treat, Hawker Sea Fury doing the business. Possibly the greatest pre-jet fighter. That engine sounds incredible, some real power and speed. Magnificent!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPsujZ6994g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wauve72wQNs Heres one with the proper engine in it ;) Bristol Centaurus - wooooooo

[walpurgis]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wauve72wQNs Heres one with the proper engine in it ;) Bristol Centaurus - wooooooo

Sounds awsome! Thought the Centaurus was standard fitment.

[graham67]

There was a nice display by a centaurus sea fury at Bournemouth which I caught twice. Sounded mean but not as sonorous as a Merlin!