Mission 774 on a Logic DM 101...advise, possible improvements for the arm ?

[torstoi]

Hi there,
I got pointed towards a Logic DM 101 deck, looked around a bit & could get my hands on a black one about a year ago,
but...without an arm.

So, I looked around what I could pair this 80's kind of physically impressive monster with.
It had to go within the scheme of the not-trying-to-be-beautiful weirdness & 80s ARTARI lettering style.

Tonearm from out of space ?
The Mission 774 came to my mind very soon, due and mainly to reports and comments I've seen around in this place.

I've landed a 774 now and it should arrive this week.
Cartridge shall be a Linn Troika (compliance 10), so from the colourscheme worn-black deck, black arm with red front lettering and red cartridge will be fine.

The question is, will the rest be fine, too ?

I read up about the deck, the arm and the cart a bit.
Some reports of experience are exactly the opposite of others, so trying to find out what might be right was kind of an educated guess up to now.

For the deck some wrote it should not be paired with an arm that is too haevy,
the suspension is quite soft obviously, so this makes sense to me in some way. I don't definitely know it is correct, though.
The Mission fits this perfectly, it is quite a light arm.
Some wrote the Logic DM 101 will not work with a Linn Ittok or Ekos as it is too haevy for the suspension.
Others wrote their best match on the Logic was an SME IV & praised that combination to heaven,
quite interesting to me, as the SME IV is heavier than an Ekos still. (So that's a bit puzzling to me, comments welcome.)
My first goal is to keep the suspension of the 101 happy with the arm choice.

2) Arm quality in total, apart from it's weight.
I also looked at possible alternatives, my mind was set on cool looking outsiders, mainly in black finish.
(From looks alone, a Funk FX with red TA tube would probably be a bomb.)
I took a look at the Logic arms they had by then.. (kind of logic if the pun is allowed..
Some praised them, others said they are....erhh..not so good.
Obviously Manticore continued the arms from Logic at the point where Logic crashed & improved them by another step.
The follower to Logic Datum is said to be the Manticore Musician and/ or Magician.
And also here, you guessed it, some said they are great, while others..

Long story short, I checked out a bit, but I want to remain within the SME mounting scheme my DM 101 has
to make things not more complicated for now.

It was suggested to me to avoid mounting an arm via an adapter, as a directly coupled arm will benefit most from the sonic advantage of the missing armboard,
the Logic's arm is sitting on a huge, massive alloy subchassis, so the direct coupling is very good. (Probably better than LP12 b4 Keel for that part..)
I have little idea how much negative effect an adapter could have, if hair-splitting theory or if it has a negative effect on sound I could hear,
anyway...it seemed to make some sense to me.
Logic Datum and Manticore have both Linn type mount, so for now I won't go for any of this,
but I'm interested in comments about their quality, particularly in comparison to the 774.

3) Last, the Mission shall be paired with Linn's Troika, the 774 w/o damping would not be optimal for that cart, but with damping via paddels
it should be possible to get it pretty much spot on working perfectly.
That's a feature I really rate high on the 774.

And finally I am interested in which way the 774 can be improved and 'tuned' later.
Comments welcome & thx if you had the patience to read so far.. :)

Kind regards, T

[Arkless Electronics]

The Logic DM101 with Mission 774 is one of my favourite ever combinations! Nice:)
The DM101 responds very well to a TT power supply.

[torstoi]

Hi Jez,

well it was you who pointed me to the DM 101.. :)

Missing a tonearm, I haven't yet heard a tone of it,
but at closer inspection I discovered some constructive arrangements that looked rather promising to me.
And quite ahead of their time,,,I do like the non-boasting sleeper style of the deck a lot already.

What kind of power supply are you thinking of ?

Thanks & cheers ! T

[Arkless Electronics]

Hi Jez,

well it was you who pointed me to the DM 101.. :)

Missing a tonearm, I haven't yet heard a tone of it,
but at closer inspection I discovered some constructive arrangements that looked rather promising to me.
And quite ahead of their time,,,I do like the non-boasting sleeper style of the deck a lot already.

What kind of power supply are you thinking of ?

Thanks & cheers ! T

Ah it's that Torsten!:) Hi.

Years ago a friend with a DM101 managed to get a board from Manticore's Doug Hewitt and I built it into a box with mains transformer etc for him. We were both amazed that it could make so much difference to be honest! Any similar unit to generate a clean undistorted 50Hz sine wave and then amplify it up to 240V should work equally well.
However this was many years ago and I'm vaguely recalling another motor being supplied with the bare PCB which I also fitted... and that there was some sort of crude power supply already built into my friends deck which was very unreliable and I fixed the inbuilt supply maybe twice a year for him before the external psu modifications...

[Bigman80]

I don't know too much about the suspension TT but the Mission tonearm is incredibly versatile. It's all be down to viscosity of the damping fluid and paddle size. I'm planning on filling one of my wands with foam after a re-wire.

Should be interesting.

Looking forward to pictures of the combo.

Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk

[walpurgis]

I'm planning on filling one of my wands with foam after a re-wire.

Should be interesting.

Oliver, take a look at the mini expanded poly pellets used in car neck pillows. Could be what you're looking for.

[torstoi]

Ah it's that Torsten!:) Hi.

Years ago a friend with a DM101 managed to get a board from Manticore's Doug Hewitt and I built it into a box with mains transformer etc for him. We were both amazed that it could make so much difference to be honest! Any similar unit to generate a clean undistorted 50Hz sine wave and then amplify it up to 240V should work equally well.
However this was many years ago and I'm vaguely recalling another motor being supplied with the bare PCB which I also fitted... and that there was some sort of crude power supply already built into my friends deck which was very unreliable and I fixed the inbuilt supply maybe twice a year for him before the external psu modifications...

Hi Jez,
yes it's well possible you mentioned the Mission 774 in one line with the DM 101 as being one of your faves.
That got me curious & to AOS in consequence..
My fave anecdote though is when you asked me which speakers I use.
My answer (proud): 'Isobarik, active..'
Jez: 'Yeah, well those are shit. Must be the worst speakers I have heard as yet..'
I spit my coffee against the screen in laughter when I read the answer.. :D
And I thought: As a salesman this guy is totally crazy, but there is VERY little doubt he speaks his mind honestly.. :P
Bottom line, they are gone, killed by 'Somethin' else' through German 3 way passive Braun speakers I got from ebay for 30€.
The Braun showed there is a drummer with a brush holding tact in the background.
The Isobariks showed some strange annoing noise in the background, a bit similar a white noise I could never identify what it was.
Ok, it was the drummer & that was the last piece the Isobarik played: Somethin'else... go figure, they showed foreseing powers in their last moments. :)
Now I have the NS1000, which didn't like my Naim amps (that had before called a similar charming comment from you..) & off went the Naims, too.

Ok, that was a short drift into the topic gravel-bed,,

I've heard the power supply of the 101 goes bust every once and then, and read up about the motor taking itself apart in suicidal manner due some reports.
So I may think about some drive solution here at some point,,,that seems to me the one weak part of the 101.
No idea to how far the rest is up to,,,but I hope to find out soon. :)

PS: You know anything about the Manticore arms if you know Dough Hewitt by person ?
Not relevant for my 101 project the moment, but how capable is for example the Magician compared to the Mission in your view ?

Kind regards, T

[Bigman80]

Oliver, take a look at the mini expanded poly pellets used in car neck pillows. Could be what you're looking for.
Haha that's genius

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[Arkless Electronics]

Hi Jez,
yes it's well possible you mentioned the Mission 774 in one line with the DM 101 as being one of your faves.
That got me curious & to AOS in consequence..
My fave anecdote though is when you asked me which speakers I use.
My answer (proud): 'Isobarik, active..'
Jez: 'Yeah, well those are shit. Must be the worst speakers I have heard as yet..'
I spit my coffee against the screen in laughter when I read the answer.. :D
And I thought: As a salesman this guy is totally crazy, but there is VERY little doubt he speaks his mind honestly.. :P
Bottom line, they are gone, killed by 'Somethin' else' through German 3 way passive Braun speakers I got from ebay for 30€.
The Braun showed there is a drummer with a brush holding tact in the background.
The Isobariks showed some strange annoing noise in the background, a bit similar a white noise I could never identify what it was.
Ok, it was the drummer & that was the last piece the Isobarik played: Somethin'else... go figure, they showed foreseing powers in their last moments. :)
Now I have the NS1000, which didn't like my Naim amps (that had before called a similar charming comment from you..) & off went the Naims, too.

Ok, that was a short drift into the topic gravel-bed,,

I've heard the power supply of the 101 goes bust every once and then, and read up about the motor taking itself apart in suicidal manner due some reports.
So I may think about some drive solution here at some point,,,that seems to me the one weak part of the 101.
No idea to how far the rest is up to,,,but I hope to find out soon. :)

PS: You know anything about the Manticore arms if you know Dough Hewitt by person ?
Not relevant for my 101 project the moment, but how capable is for example the Magician compared to the Mission in your view ?

Kind regards, T

:D Sounds about right.... subtle as a shit on a sheepskin rug... that's me:D Annoying habit of being right though.. most of the time anyway.. Probably due to having been doing this since I was a kid rather than luck;)
I like NS1000's BTW :eyebrows::)

[torstoi]

I don't know too much about the suspension TT but the Mission tonearm is incredibly versatile. It's all be down to viscosity of the damping fluid and paddle size. I'm planning on filling one of my wands with foam after a re-wire.

Should be interesting.

Looking forward to pictures of the combo.

Hi Oliver,
I don't know that much about TAs yet, but from an amateur perspective I'd be worried to shoot over the effective mass goal for some carts when filling standard arm with foam or other material.
As the arm can be damped with fluid more damping is no issue, but using no fluid already, further undamping to make it suit a cart is difficult then ?

I thought about having a second armtube from carbon fibre (keeping the original -as it is- as a spare so it can be reverted to original state),
inspired by Funk with a X architecture inside for damping.
The info at the Funk website regarding this quite impressed me & reports of people having heard a big-bore RB250 modified this way by AK
said his FX arm came pretty damn close to an Aro. ( Which in itself to me is quite a bit of a statement.

So, my thought was that something of this Carbon X technology has to work obviously, otherwise I don't see a 250 pulling up behind an Aro any soon ?
Optically a carbon armtube would not go ideal on a DM 101, but then, with a red sleeve and a white FX lettering and a red Troika
would compensate nicely for the beautiful hammerhead gone.
+ null point justage easier this way as a bonus.

I thought if I'd ask AK if he'd provide me with one of his tubes + X for the 774...at some later point, not now.

And yes,,,pictures will come. :)

[walpurgis]

Haha that's genius

What else would you expect? :lolsign:


If you decide to check that out, be careful. Some of the pillows are just filled with expanded polystyrene beads. It's the softer Polyurethane pellets you want. Last time I saw some of these cushions was in Tesco. Lidl have had them too. The filler may even be available on ebay.

[Bigman80]

Yes, in honesty I have no idea what filling it word do but as I have a spare and as I'm in for another spare I thought I could get away with wrecking one lol. It's a bit of trial and error to learn more about this fabulous arm.

PS , this mission arm in the right hands is pretty much unbeatable for realistic money. IMO.

Walpurgis is the AOS 774 expert. Maybe he can chip in.

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[Bigman80]

What else would you expect? [emoji38]sign:


If you decide to check that out, be careful. Some of the pillows are just filled with expanded polystyrene beads. It's the softer Polyurethane pellets you want. Last time I saw some of these cushions was in Tesco. Lidl have had them too. The filler may even be available on ebay.
What do you think would be the biggest effect to filling the wand ?

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[torstoi]

Hi Geoff,
as my 774 is reported to be on the way to here tomorrow,
I started my thread as suggested by you.

I'm curious how far the 101 can be taken, particularly in view of tweaking the 774.
I have an LP12 with a Sole subchassis & an old Ekos that AO cared for with new inner cable and a bearing fine-tune & an ok-ish Lingo PS.
This LP12 will act as some kind of 'status-quo' to see where I am at with the DM 101, and it will have the same Troika as the 101,
so it'll be a real direct comparison between the Linn+ arm vs. the Logic + 774 w/o the cart as a source of misinterpretations. (as I think is not uncommon as the cart makes up for huge differences

As you are the man for the 774...are there any typical main weak spots in the original and a bit aged/used Mission that result in big sonic progress when treated ?

Kind regards, T

[torstoi]

Ok, you asked for pictures...this is mine coming in non-original, but still very nice packing:

http://prntscr.com/e68wdg

And, while we're here, I shall also go ahead for the silliest picture post in 2017 in quite an early homerun.
Here we go..

http://prntscr.com/e68xii

Show this picture to any arm specialist.
The one who tells you that's a packed 774 is your man.. ;)

[walpurgis]

That first box looks familiar. I have three of them in front of me on the shelf. :D

[torstoi]

I like NS1000's BTW :eyebrows::)

Yeah, well...I took a short cut before catching even more comments of THAT sort.. ;)

[torstoi]

That first box looks familiar. I have three of them in front of me on the shelf. :D

...containing what ?
Please don't say 774's..:drool:

[Bigman80]

Ok, you asked for pictures...this is mine coming in non-original, but still very nice packing:

http://prntscr.com/e68wdg

And, while we're here, I shall also go ahead for the silliest picture post in 2017 in quite an early homerun.
Here we go..

http://prntscr.com/e68xii

Show this picture to any arm specialist.
The one who tells you that's a packed 774 is your man.. ;)
It's beautiful !!!!!! I love this tonearm.

Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk

[walpurgis]

As you are the man for the 774...are there any typical main weak spots in the original and a bit aged/used Mission that result in big sonic progress when treated ?

Kind regards, T

The 774 sounds very fine in standard form, but popular mods are an internal rewire and a new dual coax to the phono stage. If you try any of this, take great care with the mini plug. It comes apart (be gentle with it) for soldering work, but won't stand too much heat. Other changes can be damping the arm tube by covering with heat shrink sleeving or (and?) filling the tube with damping material. I also drilled my head block (headshell) through to use long bolts. Not everybody chooses to do this if they want to retain originality.

[walpurgis]

...containing what ?
Please don't say 774's..:drool:

Yes. I'm afraid so. ;)




Well. That's not absolutely true. One 774 is on one of my decks!

[DiveDeepDog]

Yes. I'm afraid so. ;)

I had 3 at one point, and 775 SM too......sold em all :doh:

[torstoi]

The 774 sounds very fine in standard form, but popular mods are an internal rewire and a new dual coax to the phono stage. If you try any of this, take great care with the mini plug. It comes apart (be gentle with it) for soldering work, but won't stand too much heat. Other changes can be damping the arm tube by covering with heat shrink sleeving or (and?) filling the tube with damping material. I also drilled my head block (headshell) through to use long bolts. Not everybody chooses to do this if they want to retain originality.

Thanks for the pointout, Geoff.
1)Have you ever seen or know any quality small connector to replace this heat-sensible plastic part ?
I think I have seen a very small round DIN similar connector, diameter about 5mm on one short VdH cable that came with some old Clearaudio phono-stage I have bumping around..
Or are most just going through a short pain in soldering & leave it well alone later..?

2) New Dual coax in the sort of, say Klotz MC5000 or the like ? What do you suggest.. ?

3) My Troika should fit ok-ish if the threads in the head are fine, no spot on perfect 0 point justage possible, perhaps..but not sure.
Why did you drill your's...or why you choose to use long bolts instead ?

Are the bearings typically fine if not confronted with abnormous force...after that long time..?

[walpurgis]

I had 3 at one point, and 775 SM too......sold em all :doh:

I'm going to have a serious slim down of record playing gear. Nine turntables and twelve tonearms (I think :scratch:) is a bit over the top.

[torstoi]

I had 3 at one point, and 775 SM too......sold em all :doh:

Hi Mark,,, nice to see you.. :)
..oh my.. :( but, you have one 774 left at least..? or really sold all of them ?

[walpurgis]

Have you ever seen or know any quality small connector to replace this heat-sensible plastic part ?

Stay with the original if you can Torsten, but I think Oliver (Bigman80) knows of a source for replacements. I expect he'll be along to advise soon.

I drilled my head block because the threads were a bit worn.

The arm bearings are normally fine and best left alone unless you suspect a problem.

Do not overtighten the screw on top of the arm clamp. The alloy (white metal) housing can crack. It just has to grip the tube, that's all.

You may need to add a small amount of mass at the head block with the Troika. As I did with my ZYX.

Like this:

https://s30.postimg.org/z5350wtb1/2ry1z10.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/z5350wtb1/)

Click on image for larger view.

[Bigman80]

There is a short supply at British audio IIRC. I paid £15 for the male part only !!! I'd get on now just in case you melt the original. In all honestly I sent mine to J7 to be rewired (spare wand) and now I don't have to worry about anything lol. To be honest my soldering skills are novice at best.

I did a thread on here demonstrating two rewires.

I'll try and find the link to the 4 pin

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[Bigman80]

http://www.soundhifi.com/hadcock.html

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[Bigman80]

I got mine here but looks like they're out !!!!!!!

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[Bigman80]

"Contact Mike at the Moth Group, British Audio online, he should be able to advise/help you"

Mike did have them. He'd be your best bet now.

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[torstoi]

Stay with the original if you can Torsten, but I think Oliver (Bigman80) knows of a source for replacements. I expect he'll be along to advise soon.

I drilled my head block because the threads were a bit worn.

The arm bearings are normally fine and best left alone unless you suspect a problem.

Do not overtighten the screw on top of the arm clamp. The alloy (white metal) housing can crack. It just has to grip the tube, that's all.

You may need to add a small amount of mass at the head block with the Troika. As I did with my ZYX.

Like this:

https://s30.postimg.org/z5350wtb1/2ry1z10.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/z5350wtb1/)

Click on image for larger view.

Thanks for the good advice Geoff, I'll keep in mind to be careful at those specific places.

Your picture is a nice hide-and-seek-playground for vinyl nerds !

Is that a Kenny TA ceramic platter mat I see on the left ?!

Then a very nice Toshiba and the Zyx Yatra, the best cart I had, ever..
Does this go well with the Mission,,,would you prefer it to a Troika there ? :)
The Zyx needed some weigth applied when I used mine, too...the blue tac is a great idea.

[walpurgis]

Like this?

https://ibb.co/kJnyyv

No, the mat is a fake suede covered rubber item.


The Yatra sounded amazing on the 774.

[torstoi]

"Contact Mike at the Moth Group, British Audio online, he should be able to advise/help you"

Mike did have them. He'd be your best bet now.

Very nice of you to look this up for me, I just sent him an email,
we'll see what he comes up with...I'll let you know.

@Geoff: yes, I'll stick with the original part as long as any possible,,,I admit I'm not keen on soldering this,,,

[torstoi]

Like this?

https://ibb.co/kJnyyv

No, the mat is a fake suede covered rubber item.


The Yatra sounded amazing on the 774.

Bingo !!! Exactly like this ! :D
VERY nice system..absolutely stunning in fact.

(the mat must have some similarities to some window-cleaner artificial leather DIY mat trick that's supposed to be quite good in some cases, then. also nice. :)

[Bigman80]

I'll take this opportunity just to add a couple of pics lol

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170208/fd9d20c2f88266feccb48dfdc75f00ab.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170208/d5afbd0cc8b0843ea4664278aaa087f2.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170208/c7ad6bcbd45f87af0dd8e386faca6dfd.jpg

So F#cking pretty and the sound is outrageous

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[walpurgis]

Yes. Oliver has the same turntable as me. So do one or two others here. Damn fine combination!

[walpurgis]

Oh. And the ZYX's sound great with it (as does the Goldring Eroica LX, which is a combination you'd not normally think of).

[Bigman80]

Haha I love it. You guided me well

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[torstoi]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170208/c7ad6bcbd45f87af0dd8e386faca6dfd.jpg



Damn that looks good,,you put the colour scheme to perfection..

You should be banned for offtopic posting such a beauty !! :drool:
I mean,,ppl will fall asleep when I post pics of the DM101 later on after that.
Besides that's not hifi anymore. That's ART!! A double offtopic, quasi.

And the red mat...is...what ? :)
Looks phantastic, if it works on the Logic I shall steal the idea to recover a tiny bit of ground. ;)

[Bigman80]

Damn that looks good,,you put the colour scheme to perfection..

You should be banned for offtopic posting such a beauty !! :drool:
I mean,,ppl will fall asleep when I post pics of the DM101 later on after that.
Besides that's not hifi anymore. That's ART!! A double offtopic, quasi.

And the red mat...is...what ? :)
Looks phantastic, if it works on the Logic I shall steal the idea to recover a tiny bit of ground. ;)
Thanks you and yes, I don't need an excuse to post pictures lol,

The mat is suede which performs better than the acromat I had and the stock rubber mat.

I'm sure you're TT will have just as much beauty.

The colour scheme was an accident but I love it.

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[walpurgis]

I mean,,ppl will fall asleep when I post pics of the DM101 later on after that.

Worry not. The DM101 will surprise you. It's a very fine turntable! :thumbsup:

[Bigman80]

Just been having a look and the DM101 looks like a very good unit. I like the off board PSU and it seems very well made. I agree with Jez, this combo could work really well together.

Visually I like it too, same kind of grey as the toshiba so a red platter mat and you're arm with orange writing will look just fine.

Can't wait to see it set up. Oh, and yes, Klotz MC5000 is a great match. I had it on mine for ages. Very excellent

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[DSJR]

The DM101 was a good deck, but doomed to failure due to the main competition, which was basically a blue-printed beefed up version of the well established and well loved TD150. The DM101 had to hit the ground running and to me, never quite made it through no real fault of its own - in my opinion.

I haven't read all the posts here, but from experience what lets the Mission 774 arm down is the tacky finish of many early castings and also sticky or notchy bearings, which are exposed, so may need cleaning out. the arm is a low mass jobbie, so to me not really up for a Karma or Troika style of groove-mangler.

One arm I reclkon would go very well if you can find one is an SME 309 (LOVED the troika I used with it and far better than an Ittok and early Ekos).....

[Bigman80]

My experience of the 774 is not as described above.

Finish is neat and tidy, bearings are smooth and solid and it's been fantastic with the plethora of cartridges I've put on it. Mass can easily be added too. Fluid damping also can be altered. I dare say there may be other experiences but mine has been one of pure joy. It's seen off rega arms, and a PU-? Arm too. I'd love to compare it with an Alphasson though.

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[walpurgis]

I haven't read all the posts here, but from experience what lets the Mission 774 arm down is the tacky finish of many early castings and also sticky or notchy bearings, which are exposed, so may need cleaning out. the arm is a low mass jobbie, so to me not really up for a Karma or Troika style of groove-mangler.

I have three 774 arms and none have bearing issues. The finish is perfectly adequate, even if it does not have the 'scientific instrument' look of fancy Japanese arms. Yes, it is a low mass arm, but the fluid damping counteracts that, providing a resistance for the cantilever suspension to work against instead of using mass to do this. Although, as Oliver says, mass can be added if desirable. I've had no end of stiff, low compliance cartridges sounding excellent in this arm.

[torstoi]

Just been having a look and the DM101 looks like a very good unit. I like the off board PSU and it seems very well made. I agree with Jez, this combo could work really well together.

Visually I like it too, same kind of grey as the toshiba so a red platter mat and you're arm with orange writing will look just fine.

Can't wait to see it set up. Oh, and yes, Klotz MC5000 is a great match. I had it on mine for ages. Very excellent



Thanks Oliver. :)
Mine has no offboard psu though, there have been various versions & mine is an inboard psu type, though the speeds can be electronicly choosen by 2 push buttons.
It's called 'electronic' or the like...and according to what I read up to now also relatively rare.
For now I'll try to get it running with the Mission as it is and see how that turns out.
Then maybe look for an offboard psu solution, but leave the deck untouched optically.

Can I ask detail about where you got or how you made your red suede mat ?
Did you buy the suede in that colour or is it available in that colour...or is it a finished plattermat product.. ?

I received a tip that a 'Vileda' artificial leather window cleaner cloth, cut to plattersize works great with some platters.
Should be the original Vileda, no cheap copy.
According my source there was quite some technological effort in devellopment & it would be relatively expensive from the material alone,
if it weren't produced in such giant numbers for window cleaning.
How to colour it red is beyond me, but maybe they're available in blue instead ?
You may try it if you like, I think I'll try it with the Logic, too.

[Arkless Electronics]

I seem to recall that the 774 has pre-loaded ABEC 9 rated bearings so as good as it gets on that...
It works wonderfully well on a DM101 as I can state from personal experience over many years of hearing my friends front end.

[torstoi]

The DM101 was a good deck, but doomed to failure due to the main competition, which was basically a blue-printed beefed up version of the well established and well loved TD150. The DM101 had to hit the ground running and to me, never quite made it through no real fault of its own - in my opinion.

I haven't read all the posts here, but from experience what lets the Mission 774 arm down is the tacky finish of many early castings and also sticky or notchy bearings, which are exposed, so may need cleaning out. the arm is a low mass jobbie, so to me not really up for a Karma or Troika style of groove-mangler.

One arm I reclkon would go very well if you can find one is an SME 309 (LOVED the troika I used with it and far better than an Ittok and early Ekos).....

Hi David,
yes well, you're basicly right the Mission is not ideal (if used totally undamped via fluid) for a Troika.

I have to create a certain ballance to A)keep the suspension happy by not fitting an arm that is too heavy & would thus compromise the work of the subchassis.
I have no exact measure what 'too heavy' is, so I can only work with an educated guess.
From this point alone, the Mission is making 10 out of 10.

B) would be to keep the cart happy with the arm & here I can work with the fluid damping to make it fit to work,
a little compromise, but an acceptable one.

I appreciate your tip with the SME and still have them on the radar as a probant for trying at some point later.
Do you know where I can look up the absolute total weight of SME arms ?
Someone already suggested an SME IV to me,,,but this one is heavier than the Ekos still & the Ekos according to some voices is too heavy for the DM101 suspension.
Is the 309 a lighter arm from the weight than the SME IV ?

I appreciate your info..loved the Troika and better than Ekos sounds pretty promising,
I'd like to give the LP12 something to chew on for a while.. :)

[Bigman80]

Richard,

I got my platter mat from eBay and after a quick search it seems they aren't on there currently although there are alternatives. I think mine is 4mm thick but the ones on eBay are only 2mm. That may actually help keep the weight down for you.

Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk

[torstoi]

My experience of the 774 is not as described above.

Finish is neat and tidy, bearings are smooth and solid and it's been fantastic with the plethora of cartridges I've put on it. Mass can easily be added too. Fluid damping also can be altered. I dare say there may be other experiences but mine has been one of pure joy. It's seen off rega arms, and a PU-? Arm too. I'd love to compare it with an Alphasson though.

There's actually no need to argue, I think the perspectives are both valid and correct in their own way.
The SMEs are known for their perfection in finish, there's little doubt in that.
I'm fine with the finish of the 774 and in fact I'm aiming at an 'organic total' in the look of the completed deck.
Here, it has to be said that an optically too perfect arm, shiny and spotless would make the deck itself look more like 'just pulled out from the dump' and create a stark contrast.

The bearings will show in practical use soon..if there's any issue, that'll be dealt with.
My guess is they'll be ok but we'll see.
I also think the many good opinions about the 774 have a reason
& that does not mean those about the SME are wrong.

I'll simply keep this SME idea on my radar, maybe there's a chance of an internal shootout at some point ? :)

[Arkless Electronics]

774 seems to work fine with any cart. I'd be amazed if it did not work well with a Troika.

[torstoi]

I seem to recall that the 774 has pre-loaded ABEC 9 rated bearings so as good as it gets on that...

Hi Jez,
good to know, that sounds rather promising ! :)

[Bigman80]

No arguing, just an opinion mate and as I have realised, many people here have more experience than me so I am always humble with my opinion.

I am sure your enthusiasm will push you to seek out the best combination and I'll be waiting to see how it all develops.

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[karma67]

My experience of the 774 is not as described above.
I'd love to compare it with an Alphasson though.

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mine isn't either,finish was good on the 2 i had and sold,the alphason hr1000 on the other hand is going no where!

[Bigman80]

mine isn't either,finish was good on the 2 i had and sold,the alphason hr1000 on the other hand is going no where!
How good is it Jamie? I am totally besotted with its looks and may consider selling a few bits (maybe even the mission 🤔) to get one.

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[karma67]

How good is it Jamie? I am totally besotted with its looks and may consider selling a few bits (maybe even the mission ��) to get one.

Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk
id say better,not a a huge amount though,price wise you are looking at £500.
i just love mine,although some hate the way it looks.
ive not had a lot of tonearms through my hands,(linn basik plus,ittok,774) but my such ended with the alphason.

[Bigman80]

I knew you'd say that lol, ye I don't think I'll ever sell the mission. I might have to do some saving.

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[torstoi]

I have three 774 arms and none have bearing issues. The finish is perfectly adequate, even if it does not have the 'scientific instrument' look of fancy Japanese arms. Yes, it is a low mass arm, but the fluid damping counteracts that, providing a resistance for the cantilever suspension to work against instead of using mass to do this. Although, as Oliver says, mass can be added if desirable. I've had no end of stiff, low compliance cartridges sounding excellent in this arm.

Yes, well, I'm very confident I'm in for a very positive surprise with the 774.
Besides, I simply LOVE it's looks, optically, to me the DM101 & Mission 774 look like made for another.
So for now, should not anything unexpected happen, I'm set for 744 do not see myself deviding this team any soon.

No reason though to not let the SME 309, or IV remotely on the radar to try this should an opportunity open up to borrow one,
if just to see what happens.
Thus, I'd be still interested in a source for the total mass of the SMEs...to get kind of an educated guess of how they may or not gel in with the 101 suspension.

The absolute mass of TA is not implemented in the data of vinyl engine, and it occurred to me, that for some decks with quite little stiffness in the suspension
like the DM, the absolute mass would be an interesting info for those looking for suitable candidates for suspended decks.
Either way, I will put mine on the scale and put down a comment in the re-view section there so it can be found if s.o. is interested.

Speaking of humble with opinion, my experience is for sure the smallest overall in here,,
so have a little patience should I put out something breathtakingly stupid every once in a while.. :D

@Oliver: I wrote a mail to Mike @ Moth Group, British Online bc of that tiny red plug& socket.
Haven't received any answer yet but I'd like to have spares before I take an attempt on an outter rewire (Klotz) & should that fail and turn out permanently unavailable
I'm interested in some low mass high quality small replacement, suggestions welcome..

[Bigman80]

Yes, well, I'm very confident I'm in for a very positive surprise with the 774.
Besides, I simply LOVE it's looks, optically, to me the DM101 & Mission 774 look like made for another.
So for now, should not anything unexpected happen, I'm set for 744 do not see myself deviding this team any soon.

No reason though to not let the SME 309, or IV remotely on the radar to try this should an opportunity open up to borrow one,
if just to see what happens.
Thus, I'd be still interested in a source for the total mass of the SMEs...to get kind of an educated guess of how they may or not gel in with the 101 suspension.

The absolute mass of TA is not implemented in the data of vinyl engine, and it occurred to me, that for some decks with quite little stiffness in the suspension
like the DM, the absolute mass would be an interesting info for those looking for suitable candidates for suspended decks.
Either way, I will put mine on the scale and put down a comment in the re-view section there so it can be found if s.o. is interested.

Speaking of humble with opinion, my experience is for sure the smallest overall in here,,
so have a little patience should I put out something breathtakingly stupid every once in a while.. :D

@Oliver: I wrote a mail to Mike @ Moth Group, British Online bc of that tiny red plug& socket.
Haven't received any answer yet but I'd like to have spares before I take an attempt on an outter rewire (Klotz) & should that fail and turn out permanently unavailable
I'm interested in some low mass high quality small replacement, suggestions welcome..
I did a lot of digging a bought a few plugs that I thought would do the job but nothing worked. The pins a very thin which seemed to be the main issue.

I'd suggest using a metal vice as a heat sink. They are quite resistant to heat but if a vice is used then you'll be fine. I have no skill and soldered mine myself. Without ruining it. A second option would be to contact J7 at Audio Origami. You could perform a rewire and just send it to get the pin soldered on.

There are a few guys on here too that are wizards with a soldering iron so if you put a request out I'm sure someone will assist.

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[Bigman80]

Could also run the tonearm cable all the way through ? RCA sockets on the back of the TT? Could solder them directly on to there.

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[torstoi]

Could also run the tonearm cable all the way through ? RCA sockets on the back of the TT? Could solder them directly on to there.

Yeah, I had this thought too, but J/ from Audio Origami adviced against it as the inner cable is unshielded, it collects any kind of radio-similar emissions,
so keeping it as short as possible and lead it over into a shielded environment surely has it's advantages
& I think in this repect the creator of the 774 and for that matter pretty much most other designs...uniarms with a similar cable routing
knew what they were doing & also mostly did the same.

I had an idea of well made Mitchell cartridge tags, 4 of them and plug them over a similarily well made arm-connector adapter as it is found in the bottom of most TAs.
Thus you would go into this from the bottom via the standard arm DIN plug,
have the tiny golden pins sticking out at the top.

The hassle to disconect the arm would be just alike the one fitting a cart,
the soldering should be quite less a pain in the ass,
finish is kind of cool & the mass involved is as low as it can get.

The connection of Mitchell tags and a high quality DIN socket from, say Cardas would be excellent too, without a doubt.
Only the earth cable needed some solution which I am not sure about, yet.

[torstoi]

I've found this thread on vinylengine about the rewire topic and others..with a plentora of interesting info XP and thoughts.

I hope it is allowed posting links and you don't mind if I do so..?

https://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?t=71796

[Bigman80]

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftheartofsound%2Enet%2Ff orum%2Fshowthread%2Ephp%3Ft%3D43017&share_tid=43017&share_fid=4177&share_type=t

Mission 774 arm rewire


It's a bit of a long thread but it contains two rewires so could be pretty useful

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[Bigman80]

Yeah, I had this thought too, but J/ from Audio Origami adviced against it as the inner cable is unshielded, it collects any kind of radio-similar emissions,
so keeping it as short as possible and lead it over into a shielded environment surely has it's advantages
& I think in this repect the creator of the 774 and for that matter pretty much most other designs...uniarms with a similar cable routing
knew what they were doing & also mostly did the same.

I had an idea of well made Mitchell cartridge tags, 4 of them and plug them over a similarily well made arm-connector adapter as it is found in the bottom of most TAs.
Thus you would go into this from the bottom via the standard arm DIN plug,
have the tiny golden pins sticking out at the top.

The hassle to disconect the arm would be just alike the one fitting a cart,
the soldering should be quite less a pain in the ass,
finish is kind of cool & the mass involved is as low as it can get.

The connection of Mitchell tags and a high quality DIN socket from, say Cardas would be excellent too, without a doubt.
Only the earth cable needed some solution which I am not sure about, yet.
I like to keep things as original as possible so for me it's worth trying to get hold of the 4 pin. Has he got back to you ?

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[torstoi]

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftheartofsound%2Enet%2Ff orum%2Fshowthread%2Ephp%3Ft%3D43017&share_tid=43017&share_fid=4177&share_type=t

Mission 774 arm rewire


It's a bit of a long thread but it contains two rewires so could be pretty useful

Thank you for the link Oliver,,,read it through completely & it's very helpful, great pictures, too ! :)

[torstoi]

I like to keep things as original as possible so for me it's worth trying to get hold of the 4 pin. Has he got back to you ?

Nope, nothing yet.
I read in a 2010 thread they're not available anymore,,maybe they are bored with people asking for them meanwhile ?

You may give it a try if you know Mike,,I wrote to the 'service' as I didn't want to bother the boss & thought if in doubt, they'll ask him anyway...but, no idea..

[Bigman80]

I emailed mike about three weeks back and he replied swiftly. They are resellers of the Hadcock range which use the same pin connector so they definitely had them. Give mike a direct email. Worked for me !

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[Bigman80]

I've emailed him. See what happens

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[CornishPasty]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MISSION-774-HADCOCK-CONNECTOR-KIT-WITH-NEW-GOLD-PLATED-CONNECTORS-/112152276365?hash=item1a1ccbed8d:m:mkyAPW-8z88U0_ic_HULhog

Does this help?

[walpurgis]

It'll do the job, but it's a bit of a pigs ear.

[CornishPasty]

If you wish you can buy just the connectors and sort the rest out yourself. In fact I might just have some new ones tucked away from my Mission days. The thing with these connectors is the fifth pin to allow proper grounding of the arm tube.

[torstoi]

I've emailed him. See what happens

Thanks that's nice, I'd like some original as a backup to have the option,
even should I use it now to revert it into original state at a later point.

[torstoi]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MISSION-774-HADCOCK-CONNECTOR-KIT-WITH-NEW-GOLD-PLATED-CONNECTORS-/112152276365?hash=item1a1ccbed8d:m:mkyAPW-8z88U0_ic_HULhog

Does this help?

Thank you, this is perhaps even not too bad an idea..
The crucial point with the original as with my idea of using a standard arm insert double pin DIN as i most conventional arms, is the missing 5th pin.
The rely on mass contact via the TA foot & that doesn't seem to work here,,,,or at least perhaps only less ideal.

I was set onto red colour bc of optics, but on the other hand a black one will just optically kind of diasspear on a black deck,
and basicly it's not such an eyecandy to urgently need to highlight it.

From earth routing, technically perhaps the best call yet...thank you for the link ! :)

[Bigman80]

Thank you, this is perhaps even not too bad an idea..
The crucial point with the original as with my idea of using a standard arm insert double pin DIN as i most conventional arms, is the missing 5th pin.
The rely on mass contact via the TA foot & that doesn't seem to work here,,,,or at least perhaps only less ideal.

I was set onto red colour bc of optics, but on the other hand a black one will just optically kind of diasspear on a black deck,
and basicly it's not such an eyecandy to urgently need to highlight it.

From earth routing, technically perhaps the best call yet...thank you for the link ! :)
I haven't had an issue with the earth so far and it is just soldered to the brass pin behind the mission badge. It then runs via the cartridge tags to the L- , no hum or buzz. Even at loud volume. Trust the original design !

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[CornishPasty]

I haven't had an issue with the earth so far and it is just soldered to the brass pin behind the mission badge. It then runs via the cartridge tags to the L- , no hum or buzz. Even at loud volume. Trust the original design !

Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk

Removing the armtube ground wire from the L- and connecting it to the arm pillar ground gives a cleaner sound imo. Rega wired their arms something similar though they grounded the whole arm down the left signal screen. Simply giving a Rega its own separate ground wiring gives 90% of the performance realised by even a fancy rewire, imo of course.

[torstoi]

Removing the armtube ground wire from the L- and connecting it to the arm pillar ground gives a cleaner sound imo. Rega wired their arms something similar though they grounded the whole arm down the left signal screen. Simply giving a Rega its own separate ground wiring gives 90% of the performance realised by even a fancy rewire, imo of course.

Thank you both Oliver and Ralph,
I heard a similar thing regarding the screening effects, particularly from experiments with Regas & those nearly all stated the difference is quite astonishing and not subtle.
So there might be room for improvement in that particular spot & I'm tempted to try that.
That plus the obviously very fine cable from Oliver's rewire-review could well be the ticket with a bit of luck..
As ever, it will be reversable, of course.

[Bigman80]

Thank you both Oliver and Ralph,
I heard a similar thing regarding the screening effects, particularly from experiments with Regas & those nearly all stated the difference is quite astonishing and not subtle.
So there might be room for improvement in that particular spot & I'm tempted to try that.
That plus the obviously very fine cable from Oliver's rewire-review could well be the ticket with a bit of luck..
As ever, it will be reversable, of course.
I've sent you a DM in regards to the red 4 pin connector

[emoji1]

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[uzzy]

The Mission 774 is a classic (the low mass one with silicon damping trough) .. if you are suffering from counterweight sag this can be rectified by applying silicon sealant carefully to the void it adheres to the sorbothane and the metal and does the job a treat .. I have repaired a few counterweights this way .. Performance doesn't degrade doing this and Mission themselves moved to a solid metal counterweight.

[Bigman80]

The Mission 774 is a classic (the low mass one with silicon damping trough) .. if you are suffering from counterweight sag this can be rectified by applying silicon sealant carefully to the void it adheres to the sorbothane and the metal and does the job a treat .. I have repaired a few counterweights this way .. Performance doesn't degrade doing this and Mission themselves moved to a solid metal counterweight.
Agreed, I'd love to get my hands on the solid counterweight. No problems with my soborthane one but for the future I'd love to have one

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[shane]

You might find this interesting. It also shows my 774 fitted with the eBay plug and socket. In fact it has ten pins, not five, using two for each connection and halving contact resistance which is already low due to the gold plating. The five pin configuration also allowed me to wire fully balanced connections to my SUT, significantly reducing him.

http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?49335-Mission-774-counterweight-repair

[torstoi]

I've sent you a DM in regards to the red 4 pin connector

Hi Oliver, pm replied,,many thanks ! :)

[torstoi]

The Mission 774 is a classic (the low mass one with silicon damping trough) .. if you are suffering from counterweight sag this can be rectified by applying silicon sealant carefully to the void it adheres to the sorbothane and the metal and does the job a treat .. I have repaired a few counterweights this way .. Performance doesn't degrade doing this and Mission themselves moved to a solid metal counterweight.

Hi David,
thanks for the heads up.
I've seen Shanes thread about this and already checked it out a bit, in case of a needed repair this will be very helpful.

Personally this sorbothane damping of the cw does seem to make sense to me;
also I personally more and more like the idea to have the arm just in the way John Bicht had it wanted to be.
It's just a thought, but if...say the arm had always had a solid counterweight in masses of numbers produced,
and just a tiny few models with sorbothane in the end of production,
I would not be the least astonished if many people would start to want exactly those sorbothane originals..
Just a thought no criticism.. :)

[torstoi]

You might find this interesting. It also shows my 774 fitted with the eBay plug and socket. In fact it has ten pins, not five, using two for each connection and halving contact resistance which is already low due to the gold plating. The five pin configuration also allowed me to wire fully balanced connections to my SUT, significantly reducing him.

Hi Shane,
that's indeed interesting, thanks !
Is the modification reversible by 100%,,,did you have to modify the hole in the arm's mouting plate to use this 5 pin connection, or did it just fit fine into the hole that is there already ?

[shane]

No modification needed, it just slots straight in. Dead easy!

[walpurgis]

significantly reducing him

Why, what did he do to you? :D

[shane]

You really don't want to know....

[torstoi]

The Mission 774 arrived by post this morning & it looks I could hardly have any more luck.
It's obviously been treated with greatest care for from the time it was bought, its absolutely clean, no dents, no scratches...nothing.
It is complete, even in the bypack all screws and all 3 paddels.
The starte of the sobothane counterweigth astonishingly is like new, not sagged, not loose..I could not tell it apart from a new one.
The headshell is not drilled through & I hope the threads in there are ok, too.
Only the red 'Mission 774' logo on he head seems a bit bleached out, so the once orange is tending much into a yellow tone already.
Apart from that, it's simply amazing.

I was astonished how small it appeared in reality compared to my imagination having seen the pictures.
And then also impressed what authority the small mechanical unit is sending out.
Every single piece of it seems develloped to a point to just and simply do what it's supposed to & nothing more.
And with no compromise or any care given that no other unit designed for the same purpose looks even remotely similar.
That's class.
It is both, light and heavy the same.
I'm impressed,,,pictures will follow later on.

For now I have a few questions & need a bit of help if possible..
I sat the deck on the table when the Mission was unpacked & did a quick check what exactly keeps me from running the deck now.
When I thought of damping fluid, the Zyx quite a few of you are running on the 774 & I had the idea to
fit my Zyx (temporarily) with your 'receipe' instead of the Troika with momentary stepping in the dark.
I may swap to the Troika later on when I am used to the arm a bit,
but for now as a starter, a known working concept ofc would simplify things a lot.. :)

So, can I have a tip, which paddel, which viscosity of silicone damping fluid you use, and ~how much additional weight on the cart incl. silly putty ?

2) The threads in the headshell..
I don't want to destroy them if they are still intact.
Am I correct that's not a metric thread in there ? What is it called the thread..? A British norm I suppose ?

I'd need the total usable depth if I want to order cartridge screws.
The more of the thread in the alloy I use, the less risk will be there to pull the threads out and ruin them.
So for those who have spare 774 tonearms and the correct screws at hands,
could one of you tell me the total usable depth of this thread by putting a screw in and measure ?

Would be very nice,,,by that + the screw section in the Zyx I can get the near-perfect length of screws ordered.

That's it...cart screws, damping fluid, additional weigth, silly putty,
then 4 sunk screws with inbus that fit exactly the TA socket. (will need to take the subchassis out to measure and do this properly)
cut the British mains plug and fit a German version.

Then I should be ready to go... :)

[torstoi]

No modification needed, it just slots straight in. Dead easy!

That's great,,,thanks ! :)

[walpurgis]

Every single piece of it seems develloped to a point to just and simply do what it's supposed to & nothing more.

Exactly right!


Glad you've found yourself a nice one. Have fun with it, it's a great arm :).

Experiment with the fluid damping, if you have thick silicone fluid, you can thin it with silicone oil.

[Bigman80]

The Mission 774 arrived by post this morning & it looks I could hardly have any more luck.
It's obviously been treated with greatest care for from the time it was bought, its absolutely clean, no dents, no scratches...nothing.
It is complete, even in the bypack all screws and all 3 paddels.
The starte of the sobothane counterweigth astonishingly is like new, not sagged, not loose..I could not tell it apart from a new one.
The headshell is not drilled through & I hope the threads in there are ok, too.
Only the red 'Mission 774' logo on he head seems a bit bleached out, so the once orange is tending much into a yellow tone already.
Apart from that, it's simply amazing.

I was astonished how small it appeared in reality compared to my imagination having seen the pictures.
And then also impressed what authority the small mechanical unit is sending out.
Every single piece of it seems develloped to a point to just and simply do what it's supposed to & nothing more.
And with no compromise or any care given that no other unit designed for the same purpose looks even remotely similar.
That's class.
It is both, light and heavy the same.
I'm impressed,,,pictures will follow later on.

For now I have a few questions & need a bit of help if possible..
I sat the deck on the table when the Mission was unpacked & did a quick check what exactly keeps me from running the deck now.
When I thought of damping fluid, the Zyx quite a few of you are running on the 774 & I had the idea to
fit my Zyx (temporarily) with your 'receipe' instead of the Troika with momentary stepping in the dark.
I may swap to the Troika later on when I am used to the arm a bit,
but for now as a starter, a known working concept ofc would simplify things a lot.. :)

So, can I have a tip, which paddel, which viscosity of silicone damping fluid you use, and ~how much additional weight on the cart incl. silly putty ?

2) The threads in the headshell..
I don't want to destroy them if they are still intact.
Am I correct that's not a metric thread in there ? What is it called the thread..? A British norm I suppose ?

I'd need the total usable depth if I want to order cartridge screws.
The more of the thread in the alloy I use, the less risk will be there to pull the threads out and ruin them.
So for those who have spare 774 tonearms and the correct screws at hands,
could one of you tell me the total usable depth of this thread by putting a screw in and measure ?

Would be very nice,,,by that + the screw section in the Zyx I can get the near-perfect length of screws ordered.

That's it...cart screws, damping fluid, additional weigth, silly putty,
then 4 sunk screws with inbus that fit exactly the TA socket. (will need to take the subchassis out to measure and do this properly)
cut the British mains plug and fit a German version.

Then I should be ready to go... :)
It's not metric, that is correct but with a bit of care I've found most threads fit. If in doubt use some oil. Very light oil and only the smallest amount. Try a few different ones without the cartridge for testing.

I don't know the total depth of the thread but I do have some I will use when my new wand arrives. I'll measure them when I fit the ZYX and let you know. I think it's 7mm total thread.

Again, it's trial and error with the damping fluid too. Go for the medium paddle first and swap them around. Usually I think most of is have the paddle just touching the top of the silicone rather than being submerged.

Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk

[torstoi]

Thank you both.

I have just managed to test-fit the Zyx and found typically 2 kinds of cart screws, of which 1 type fits and one does not.
The kind that does not fit often came supplied with Japanese carts, is shiny and has a very fine screwdriver slot in the top.
The same kind of thread is also to be found in inbus kind of screws, and optically in fact there are hard to tell apart.
The thread itself in those looks less steep and a tad finer than metric...very carefully attempting to get those in after like not even a milimeter, the arm gave a clear: NO.

The one that fit spot on are what I believe to be M2,5 so far.
Those went in exactly by 3mm each side, and the inside of my arm (in the threads) looks the same spotless black coat like outside,
so it seems there has not been fooled around with wrong norms in there, yet...that's great.

No guarantee, yet, but I think it's M2,5. (I found 2 screws fitting perfectly, but will have to order a few M2,5 screws still different lengths now to confirm it's them.)

So, in the arm 3mm thread length, the Zyx mounting length was exactly 5mm.
So you come out at a total of 8mm, add some small soft cart screw nylon washers & you should be spot on there.

https://online-schrauben.de/shop/Schrauben/Innensechskantschrauben/DIN-912-Zylinderkopfschrauben-mit-Innensechskant-aehnl.-ISO-4762/Edelstahl-Rostfrei-A1-A2/M-2,5-Gewinde-M-metrisches-Gewinde

That's a link to a German online shop, the DIN appears to be DIN 912, but as said, I have yet to confirm those are really the ones I used.

As it turns out, I had 2 perfect black ones soming with the loose screw bypack package, I did not know what they were for, with the Logic DM101.
Lost one of them, probably eaten by my vac cleaner meanwhile,,,tuns out the second one was spot on what I'd need for the Zyx...8mm length,,,damn. :(

The screws will have to be black I think,,,the kind of lightly washed out black of the originals would be awesome..

So far for now,,,cheers..

[Bigman80]

Once you get the right fixings, damping and setup you will be rewarded with great sound.

Pictures !!!! We need pics !!!!

Lol

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[torstoi]

1) A total with it's upcoming rival lurking in the background...you'll notice the total thickness of the Logic's platter in comparison to the LP12's.
The potential of speed continuity from mass on the outter areal of the platter is on the Logic's side I'd say...if the electronics allow it,,,that is.. :)

http://prntscr.com/e8y4m8

2) A total from above reveals the massive alloy subchassis, 18mm thick, so nearly 2cm,
my whole deck appears to be coated with somthing similar to a car stone-hit protection, doesn't look very elegant but from damping alone is not even silly perhaps.
The tiny arrow shows how I had to hang the outter ta cable over the chair to have the suspension happy, having it hang free killed any vertical movement and thus the suspension absolutely.
The LP12 HAS to have at least one leg in the pic, or my house is gonna burn.. ;)

http://prntscr.com/e8y73b

3) Zyx Yatra on Mission 774 with a loose arrangement of cable salad..or so a gourmet temple would put this..
...and yes...as my cut of the pic illustrates,,I know it's not... :)

http://prntscr.com/e8yafd

4) Armbase...detail:

http://prntscr.com/e8ycor

5) Armdetail base from right side...suspension fine & level with most mass of the outter cable held by a chair:

http://prntscr.com/e8yduc

6) Detail Commando Central of the Logic Enterprise...a really bewildering crowd of knobs..

http://prntscr.com/e8yexk

7) Detail right suspension setting,,yes I'll have sunk screws in the final version..

http://prntscr.com/e8ygpe

8) ...same as 7) only I took the outter TA cable from the chair and let it hand down freely,,,effect, subchassis goes to the ground, suspension effectively dead.
This is the most sensible suspension I have come across as yet...swings forever once touched when in balance.
Doesn't mean it doesn't work, noor it has to sound bad,,,we'll see..

http://prntscr.com/e8yhpg

9) same situation, view from below. Spectaculary free hanging TA outter cable. Not a good idea on this deck..

http://prntscr.com/e8yj43

That's it for now,, nowhere near cosmetic condition or presentation status quo as your really outstandingly beautiful Toshiba's,
but gives quite a realistic impression of the Logic's kind of massive physical presence, particularly in contrast to the smaller appearance with a light tendency of appearing a bit lost
at first view.
Longer handling and watching it kind or re-calibrates this impression of being lost, esp. bc the handling of the Mission has a very physical presence and self-confidence that cannot be caugth in a picture.
The better optical balance overall remains with the Toshibas, though.
In case of the Logic and Mission, nearly nothing is normal, conventional or even tries to impress with an impression of balance,
so seen this way, my combination somehow goes within the scheme in total.. :)

Thx for watching, if you like more perspectives or closeups I left out,,or just wanna express that is by far the ugliest deck you have seen in your life ever,,
just let me know.. :)

P.S.: A view of the hanging TA cable will perhaps, despite the cable is not blue, for some in the know have recognise the hand writing of J7 of Audio Origami
from the charismatic attachment of the earth lead by heatshrink.
And that's correct, the seller had the deck inspected and repaired by J7 before sending it to me.
It didn't work properly and J7 repaired the electronics by changing capacitors and obviously also cared for the worn centre bearing by putting in a new precise insert (bush?)
As I don't know the state before, I just wanna say a big thanks for this & it's nice knowing it has been cared for properly by an expert, so no unpleasant surprises are to expect from these spots
any soon. Big thx to Alex and J7 for this ! :)
...and to Jez, without whom recommending the Logic to me, it would never even have appeared on my radar.
3 very good pointouts up to now, if the Logic turns out a winner, it looks I owe you another pint, mate.. :pub:

[Bigman80]

1) A total with it's upcoming rival lurking in the background...you'll notice the total thickness of the Logic's platter in comparison to the LP12's.
The potential of speed continuity from mass on the outter areal of the platter is on the Logic's side I'd say...if the electronics allow it,,,that is.. :)

http://prntscr.com/e8y4m8

2) A total from above reveals the massive alloy subchassis, 18mm thick, so nearly 2cm,
my whole deck appears to be coated with somthing similar to a car stone-hit protection, doesn't look very elegant but from damping alone is not even silly perhaps.
The tiny arrow shows how I had to hang the outter ta cable over the chair to have the suspension happy, having it hang free killed any vertical movement and thus the suspension absolutely.
The LP12 HAS to have at least one leg in the pic, or my house is gonna burn.. ;)

http://prntscr.com/e8y73b

3) Zyx Yatra on Mission 774 with a loose arrangement of cable salad..or so a gourmet temple would put this..
...and yes...as my cut of the pic illustrates,,I know it's not... :)

http://prntscr.com/e8yafd

4) Armbase...detail:

http://prntscr.com/e8ycor

5) Armdetail base from right side...suspension fine & level with most mass of the outter cable held by a chair:

http://prntscr.com/e8yduc

6) Detail Commando Central of the Logic Enterprise...a really bewildering crowd of knobs..

http://prntscr.com/e8yexk
That looks lovely !

You mentioned your orange writing had faded, well it hasn't. There were two versions of wand. From what I have been able to find out on the net and my own personal tonearm is that one (orange writing) is entirely metal in construction including headshell. The other (gold writing) is a couple of mm longer and has a graphite/carbon headshell. Not sure which.

The orange one came with the tonearm but the gold one was sold separately.

I haven't been able to find anything else out about it. I was thinking of trying to contact John Bicht if he's still around and get as much detail as possible.

I'm sure the LP12 will be gathering dust for a while now you have this.

Try the Mission with a Toshiba SR370 if one ever comes up for sale. It's remarkable.

Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk

[torstoi]

That looks lovely !

You mentioned your orange writing had faded, well it hasn't. There were two versions of wand. From what I have been able to find out on the net and my own personal tonearm is that one (orange writing) is entirely metal in construction including headshell. The other (gold writing) is a couple of mm longer and has a graphite/carbon headshell. Not sure which.

The orange one came with the tonearm but the gold one was sold separately.

I haven't been able to find anything else out about it. I was thinking of trying to contact John Bicht if he's still around and get as much detail as possible.

I'm sure the LP12 will be gathering dust for a while now you have this.

Try the Mission with a Toshiba SR370 if one ever comes up for sale. It's remarkable.

Thanks for the nice comment and info Oliver..

It could be I did more of a lucky shot than I supposed to, even ? ...whow,,,that'll be amazing..
Graphite / carbon,,sounds pretty much Formula 1 already.

For now I'm pretty happy anyway,,and yes, from the massiveness of the plinth and maybe the density of the material used, there could be similarities with the Logic and the Toshiba
that go down with the Mission very well.
I do not doubt this is good and am sure from the drive aspect alone, the stability of the Toshiba will be hard to match.

We'll see....in the long perspective I am lurking after a competent direct too,
but for the moment I'm quite happy and have a bit of task in front of me, still.

The LP12 will always be sitting next and act as a competition. It has a few features that quite puts it apart from the classic standard 'fruit box',
but...from some specific features I saw on the Logic and Mission too, alike an unholy sound of distant thunder I sense it's well possible
it could be wise to keep some handkerchiefs handy for the LP12 when the contest begins...who knows,,,we'll see.. :)

[Bigman80]

Thanks for the nice comment and info Oliver..

It could be I did more of a lucky shot than I supposed to, even ? ...whow,,,that'll be amazing..
Graphite / carbon,,sounds pretty much Formula 1 already.

For now I'm pretty happy anyway,,and yes, from the massiveness of the plinth and maybe the density of the material used, there could be similarities with the Logic and the Toshiba
that go down with the Mission very well.
I do not doubt this is good and am sure from the drive aspect alone, the stability of the Toshiba will be hard to match.

We'll see....in the long perspective I am lurking after a competent direct too,
but for the moment I'm quite happy and have a bit of task in front of me, still.

The LP12 will always be sitting next and act as a competition. It has a few features that quite puts it apart from the classic standard 'fruit box',
but...from some specific features I saw on the Logic and Mission too, alike an unholy sound of distant thunder I sense it's well possible
it cold be wise to keep some handkerchiefs handy for the LP12 when the contest begins...who knows,,,we'll see.. :)
Haha, yes tissues for the LP12 could be needed.

I'm not sure whether the graphite/carbon was an upgrade or just an option but it does well on my TT so I'm happy.

There's nothing like the power of a good Direct Driver unit. Thunderous Bass is one of its many perks !!

The logic looks great and the Mission adds a "space age of the 80's" look. Very nice indeed.

Let us know how it sounds.

Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk

[Patrick Dixon]

I'll take this opportunity just to add a couple of pics lol

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170208/fd9d20c2f88266feccb48dfdc75f00ab.jpg



Looking at your photo, I reckon you should check that that the anti-skating cord is correctly running on the two pulleys, as I'd expect the anti-skate weight to be more horizontal than you have it.

The cord should run around the horizontally pulley at the bottom of the arm base and around the vertical pulley on the arm with the weight(s), but it often seems to run out of the groove if you are not careful.

[Bigman80]

Looking at your photo, I reckon you should check that that the anti-skating cord is correctly running on the two pulleys, as I'd expect the anti-skate weight to be more horizontal than you have it.

The cord should run around the horizontally pulley at the bottom of the arm base and around the vertical pulley on the arm with the weight(s), but it often seems to run out of the groove if you are not careful.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170319/697a1a77674f33923a7298b304c8c934.jpg

Thanks for your observation but its bob on !! It does hang low though so I can see why you thought that.

I spent ages setting it all up to withing an inch of its life !!!!

I want one of those Dr Feikhart tools to see if there was any adjustments needed.

Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk

[Patrick Dixon]

It's hard to see from that photo but are you sure it's in the grove of the horizontal pulley? You won't be able to set a Mission 774 up with a 'proper' tool because the geometry is all wrong. The headshell angle of 21.5 deg doesn't really work for anything shorter than a 10" arm.

[Bigman80]

100% sure. I am at work now or id take another better pic. I know they are a shit to set up right but i have no doubt mine is a close to "right" as i will ever get it.

[CornishPasty]

Torstoi, correct dressing of the external arm cable is extremely important on any suspended sub chassis turntable. The cable should always be regarded as part of the suspension system. Correct dressing not only allows free movement of the sub chassis but can also be used to limit unwanted movement too. I'm sure you're aware of this but I still think it's important to mention it.

[torstoi]

Torstoi, correct dressing of the external arm cable is extremely important on any suspended sub chassis turntable. The cable should always be regarded as part of the suspension system. Correct dressing not only allows free movement of the sub chassis but can also be used to limit unwanted movement too. I'm sure you're aware of this but I still think it's important to mention it.

Hi Ralph,

yes, well, I'm aware of the theory that the arm cable is considered as part of the suspension by some.
Particularly I think that's part of the classic Linn philosophy regarding the LP12 as far as I know it.
I have a different theory about this & I think the ideal state of suspension would be with no cable attached at all.
I'll try to come up with a solution to this that's as clse as any possible to the subchassis 'seeing' nearly no cable mass or limitation in move by cable.

I don't know if I'm right or not & will report about result, even if I find it being a failure.
I expect the DM101 be even more crtical in this respect than the LP12, so it is hence an even more ideal platform for putting my theory to test.

I received a light blowback already as I ordered the same nice record clamp as those
beautiful Toshiba's show incl. level bubble.

This level gauge clamp sent my suspension to the ground like a knocked out boxer straight.. :P

Lesson learnt: The DM101 is not a Toshiba.

So a lighter, minimalistic acryl gauge is on the wishlist now,
then maybe a mat will add onto that, up to now I made good results with certain cork granulate mats with the LP12, or with alloy platters, we'll see.

Then the arm + clamp + mat + average LP will give a certain inballance on the suspension
& I'll have to have an altered (probably lighter) add-on counterweigth on the bottom left side of the subchassis.
The current CW is a screw-on steel affair & changing that to something a bit lighter is no big deal,
ultimately the thing has to be in an equally weigth loaded ballance sitting straight and level.
(all w/o any cable attached)

Has to move nicely...and only then comes the cable.
We'll see how this works out.. :)

Cheers, T

[CornishPasty]

Hello Torstoi, I'm interested to see how you get on with your DM101 turntable. I didn't realise it was so long ago when I last played with one of these. I never owned one but I spent a few evenings with a couple of friends who had this same turntable but always seemed to have suspension problems. I believe the later decks were modified to cure this but I never had the pleasure of one of those. I have several nice turntables but I think I can feel an itch to add another ;)

[torstoi]

Hi Ralph,
yes, well, it's quite common my projects are not finsihed in an absolute speedy manner, as I have phases with more spare time available & then pases where I get caugth up by daily task buiz.
But I'm getting ahead step by step & should show sonic results anytime soon I think.
I'm no expert with the DM101 of course, but a common sense view from the top to the subchassis gives an idea that this particular deck has a VERY sensible suspension
& hence my thought is, it will react quite sensible to changes in the weigth positioning in relation to the respective 3 suspension points.
So different arms (not too heavy if possible as far as I understoof up to now), platter mat and possible clamps will demand particular attention
in the sense of ballancing out the whole suspension system to the working point that had been aimed on by it's designers.
Otherwise, I think results will not nearly show what the deck is capable of.

From the plain constructive aspects, I already said this looks quite promissing, as for example the chassis as such has constructive attributes
in a way that problematic zones that are calling for some attention with the LP12 for instance - are not even existant.

I said I'll compare this to the LP12 & Ekos 1 with the identical type of MC cart and also phono stage,
you may wait for the result I get if you like.

These decks are not really common, but if you want one, they do come up from time to time,
so I wouldn't consider it a huge issue to get one for a fair price.

As said I have no sonic results up to now as I don't want to listen to an unballanced deck until it's really properly set up,
but my expectation from what I perceive in attributes at hand suggests it could have potential to excellent vfm,
particularly in relation to LP12 perhaps.

Either way, if you're interested...all I can say up to now is that it's a very nice project to adapt your thougths to,
and if you pay respect and understanding to what the deck 'wants' in terms of TA choice and mass applied,
it may well be capable of delivering astonishing results, particularly within the class of what it typically costs s/h,
and maybe even beyond that.

If you pull the trigger on one, be invited to join in here with your results & build, or make an own thread if you wish.. :)

Kind regards, T