The start of my DL103 journey

[Haselsh1]

OK so today arrived my new Denon DL103. After forty minutes of fiddling to fit the damn thing due to its excessive weight I finally got it installed. Alignment was a piece of piss due to its shape and the general flatness all round so, the first disc...? The one I have slaughtered almost every week since Christmas. Quantic's 'The 5th Exotic'. Being mainly back beats and samples with some great percussion I thought I'd start here.

High frequencies.
Most other cartridges I have used over a forty year period have had a slight edge to vocals rendering them slightly unnatural. Not so now. The treble of this cartridge is just so damn natural. Because of this, percussion and drums have a fabulous texture to them with a good dry percussive hit. Really love this sound. Cymbals are highly realistic if slightly grainy when compared to the real thing, can't really compare this album to the real thing though.

Midband.
Vocals are just so natural with no hint of a slight metallic edge. These vocals are truly believable as is the sound of a Gibson ES339. No complaints at all, stunning.

Bass.
OK so it is certainly there on this album and yes it can be felt through the sofa and so it is with this cartridge. Lovely low frequency shimmer that just emerges and rolls across the floor. Not as forceful as CD but then this is not CD is it, thankfully, and if I wanted powerful forceful bass I would play the CD version. This cartridge is the most laid back analogue sound I think I have ever heard in around forty years of owning Hi-Fi.

Is it worth it...? At 165 quid you bloody bet it is.

[blackstar]

I have one with 100 hours on it, and am seriously contemplating nuding it to see what all the fuss is.

[Yomanze]

Basically if you want more detail, you nude the cartridge, perhaps on 2mm thick brass plate using Araldite to fix it like I did. If you want more 'body' then *ahem* a wood body is a good idea.

[Jimbo]

Basically if you want more detail, you nude the cartridge, perhaps on 2mm thick brass plate using Araldite to fix it like I did. If you want more 'body' then *ahem* a wood body is a good idea.

Would you mind posting a pic of that 103 Neil

[Jimbo]

OK so today arrived my new Denon DL103. After forty minutes of fiddling to fit the damn thing due to its excessive weight I finally got it installed. Alignment was a piece of piss due to its shape and the general flatness all round so, the first disc...? The one I have slaughtered almost every week since Christmas. Quantic's 'The 5th Exotic'. Being mainly back beats and samples with some great percussion I thought I'd start here.

High frequencies.
Most other cartridges I have used over a forty year period have had a slight edge to vocals rendering them slightly unnatural. Not so now. The treble of this cartridge is just so damn natural. Because of this, percussion and drums have a fabulous texture to them with a good dry percussive hit. Really love this sound. Cymbals are highly realistic if slightly grainy when compared to the real thing, can't really compare this album to the real thing though.

Midband.
Vocals are just so natural with no hint of a slight metallic edge. These vocals are truly believable as is the sound of a Gibson ES339. No complaints at all, stunning.

Bass.
OK so it is certainly there on this album and yes it can be felt through the sofa and so it is with this cartridge. Lovely low frequency shimmer that just emerges and rolls across the floor. Not as forceful as CD but then this is not CD is it, thankfully, and if I wanted powerful forceful bass I would play the CD version. This cartridge is the most laid back analogue sound I think I have ever heard in around forty years of owning Hi-Fi.

Is it worth it...? At 165 quid you bloody bet it is.

Shaun the 103 has been on my radar for a longtime, mainly out of curiosity. Your review had wetted my appetite even more!

[Yomanze]

Would you mind posting a pic of that 103 Neil

Here you go: http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u225/decisively_unsure/dl103under.jpg

...this is the only pic I have, note that the mounting screw holes should've been aligned differently, and not to use 4mm plate. ;)

[Jimbo]

Here you go: http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u225/decisively_unsure/dl103under.jpg

...this is the only pic I have, note that the mounting screw holes should've been aligned differently, and not to use 4mm plate. ;)

Thanks very much. Can I just ask why you used brass plate? I might go down this route myself if it lifts top end a tad.

[Yomanze]

Thanks very much. Can I just ask why you used brass plate? I might go down this route myself if it lifts top end a tad.
Non magnetic, easy to machine and quite dense.

[Yomanze]

Back on topic indeed I am also a fan of the natural musicality of the DL103, and also a fan of the price!

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

[Haselsh1]

Well, was loading it with 100 Ohms and then thought I would try 1000 Ohms. OMG, what a bloody difference...! Absolutely transformed into a fabulous sound...!!

The only problem now is because of the cheap phono stage, hum is becoming a problem.

[Firebottle]

I must try that :scratch:

[paulf-2007]

Well, was loading it with 100 Ohms and then thought I would try 1000 Ohms. OMG, what a bloody difference...! Absolutely transformed into a fabulous sound...!!

The only problem now is because of the cheap phono stage, hum is becoming a problem.
and you don't think that's due to the loading?

[CageyH]

Thanks very much. Can I just ask why you used brass plate? I might go down this route myself if it lifts top end a tad.

There are some nice bodies available to drop a nuded DL103 into. My 27g brass Audio-Techne is probably a bit excessive but lighter versions are available.

[blackstar]

Sorry to hijack but I'm interested to understand which are the best for fit and which material is preferable; I like the idea of wood but aluminium is also an option.

[Haselsh1]

Right then, now got the Rothwell MC headamp installed and running for three hours last night playing various music from Damon Albarn to Mr Scruff. There is the most amazing realism now that wasn't there before with the widest stereo image I have ever heard from vinyl in any of my systems. One problem though is that now I am suffering some RF breakthrough that I have just ordered some ferrite rings for. To sum up the Rothwell over the Pro-Ject, the Rothwell is massively better with shovel loads more information and a very high level of realism. Compared to the Pro-Ject it should be, it cost a helluva lot more.

[Haselsh1]

and you don't think that's due to the loading?

How is that...? The hum was there anyway due to high gain through a cheap phono stage...!!

[RothwellAudio]

One problem though is that now I am suffering some RF breakthrough that I have just ordered some ferrite rings for. To sum up the Rothwell over the Pro-Ject, the Rothwell is massively better with shovel loads more information and a very high level of realism. Compared to the Pro-Ject it should be, it cost a helluva lot more.
Glad to hear you like the sound of the Headspace but it's a shame there are RF problems. Can you describe the symptoms? Is it an occasional click or a continuous noise? Is the tonearm cable normal or something fancy?
The earth wire from the turntable should go to the binding post on the Headspace with no need for any other earthing arrangement. However, it would be worth trying it with the earth wire going to the phonostage instead, or with a linking earth wire between headamp and phonostage.
Also, can I ask what the phonostage is?
I'll go everything I can to help you solve this problem.

[Barry]

Well, was loading it with 100 Ohms and then thought I would try 1000 Ohms. OMG, what a bloody difference...! Absolutely transformed into a fabulous sound...!!

The only problem now is because of the cheap phono stage, hum is becoming a problem.

Yes, with a source impedance of 40 Ohm, the load impedance should be not less than 400 Ohm. 1000 Ohm is ideal.

[Haselsh1]

Yes, with a source impedance of 40 Ohm, the load impedance should be not less than 400 Ohm. 1000 Ohm is ideal.

Thank you for the confirmation Barry.

[Haselsh1]

Glad to hear you like the sound of the Headspace but it's a shame there are RF problems. Can you describe the symptoms? Is it an occasional click or a continuous noise? Is the tonearm cable normal or something fancy?
The earth wire from the turntable should go to the binding post on the Headspace with no need for any other earthing arrangement. However, it would be worth trying it with the earth wire going to the phonostage instead, or with a linking earth wire between headamp and phonostage.
Also, can I ask what the phonostage is?
I'll go everything I can to help you solve this problem.

OK, thank you for your help. Because of the nature of the deck it has an internal earthing arrangement so there is no connection to the outside other than the signal. I could switch off the internal earth and connect up a wire to the headamp and then to the phono stage which is itself built in to the preamp. The RF breakthrough is a constant high frequency noise pretty much sounding like a radio transmission.

[paulf-2007]

How is that...? The hum was there anyway due to high gain through a cheap phono stage...!!
Ok I didn't think you said it was already there.

[RothwellAudio]

Because of the nature of the deck it has an internal earthing arrangement so there is no connection to the outside other than the signal.
Ideally the four pins on the back of the cartridge should connect to the L/R output RCA plugs and all the metal parts of the turntable should be connected to a wire we'll call "the earth wire", though it does not need to be connected to mains earth. The earth wire should not have any connection to any of the wires coming from the cartridge and the two -ve wires from the cartridge should not be connected to each other. The earth wire should go back to the binding post on the headamp.

If the earth wire connects to the signal wires from the cartridge within the turntable you can end up with problems.

[Haselsh1]

Yes, I checked a short while ago and there is only an internal earth within the turntable. There is also no separate earth on the preamp even though it has an inbuilt phono stage. I knew I should have bought a proper turntable LOL.

[CornishPasty]

Removing the body from the cartridge and glueing it to a flat plate seriously exposes the cartridge and I can pretty much guarantee you'll end up ripping the cantilever off at some point. Far better to put it in an aluminium or wood housing if you wish to go down this road. I've done both and prefer the clarity of the aluminium housing but you really need to try it for yourself as we all hear things differently. I found a semi setting adhesive to fix the cart in the housing is good as it gives the housing some damping and allows removal of the cart if required.

[RothwellAudio]

Yes, I checked a short while ago and there is only an internal earth within the turntable. There is also no separate earth on the preamp even though it has an inbuilt phono stage. I knew I should have bought a proper turntable LOL.

Is it the Stanton ST150? It looks like quite a complicated thing and separating the earth from the signal might not be trivial job, though I have no experience of that turntable. If you're not confident of undertaking the job yourself it might be possible that a local technician could look at it for you.
When you checked, what exactly did you find?

[Haselsh1]

Is it the Stanton ST150? It looks like quite a complicated thing and separating the earth from the signal might not be trivial job, though I have no experience of that turntable. If you're not confident of undertaking the job yourself it might be possible that a local technician could look at it for you.
When you checked, what exactly did you find?

There is a switch on the rear to either earth or not to earth. With earth there is considerable hum without earth there is very little hum. There is no binding post to attach anything to earth.

It would appear I have no way of attaching anything to the Rothwell Headamp for earthing purposes.

[RothwellAudio]

There is a switch on the rear to either earth or not to earth. With earth there is considerable hum without earth there is very little hum. There is no binding post to attach anything to earth.

It would appear I have no way of attaching anything to the Rothwell Headamp for earthing purposes.

That's interesting. When you have the earth connected and there is considerable hum, does the RF disappear? The hum sounds like a ground loop because the pre-amp is earthed and the turntable is earthed. Is the pre-amp a Prima Luna with onboard phonostage? If so, you could try an experiment. Some people will say this is dangerous, but it should be safe enough for quick test: disconnect the earth wire within the mains plug of the turntable, or within the mains plug of the Prima Luna pre-amp. You should find that there's no hum in either position of the turntable's earth switch but one position will be quieter in terms of RF noise.
The test may not be possible if both products have moulded mains plugs. In any case, it's only a test and you shouldn't leave the mains earth wire permanently disconnected. The test will just tell you want the problem is and point towards a long term solution.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Here's my 103M, a rare beast. Lots of stuff on the net. But a little extra weight and dampening under the cartridge works well. This photo shows mine on a Orsonic headshell with Mpingo wood dampening and additional 3g weight.

19310

Hope this helps with your journey!

[Haselsh1]

OK, the latest to the thread. I have relocated the Prima Luna preamp well away from the Rothwell Headamp and removed just about every trace of hum. There is still a small level of hiss which is still being modulated by RF breakthrough though. Ferrite clips arrived this morning so I just need to try them out and report back later.

[RothwellAudio]

Everything hisses - even a resistor just lying on the bench. It's called Johnson noise and it's never going to go away. It's the signal-to-noise ratio which really counts. If the hiss is only audible with the volume maxed out - where the music would be deafening - that's probably ok. However, hiss being modulated by RF breakthrough sounds very strange. I don't understand that.
The best solution is for the turntable to be wired correctly. I doubt that ferrite rings will do anything at all, but you may be lucky.

[Haselsh1]

Right then, with two ferrite clips per cable from the turntable to the headamp, one at each end, all I have now is what I would refer to as residual hiss. This has however shown a slight flutter from one of my preamp valves which is now audible close up to the tweeter.

I have also rejigged the DIP settings in the headamp so that there is now 360 Ohm loading in place of 1,500. This in itself has lowered the overall hiss from the tweeter considerably. It has also improved the sound quality considerably from what was overly bright and glassy to something quite mellow and relaxed. The bright glassy sound was initially impressive but grew very tiring over time.

This whole thing is quite a learning thing for me. I remember many years back experiencing RF breakthrough when using a low output moving coil and even way back then I had to use ferrite rings/clips. I now have a situation whereupon there is only a very acceptable background hiss and a little bit of valve flutter on the left channel which after swapping around the preamp valves is not coming from the preamp. That only leaves the 12AU7's on the power amp.

Comparing Damon Albarn's 'Everyday Robots' on vinyl and CD there are clear differences with the Denon DL103. The stereo effect is much more pronounced on the vinyl and the whole sound has much more clarity to it. There is a level of detail that is much more obvious than the CD. The detail is there on the CD but is clearly masked and nowhere near as obvious.

So far so good.

[Haselsh1]

Also, lowering the loading on the cartridge has removed a little bit of sibilance on S's that was obvious on some recordings. OK, so I need to wait for the new stylus to bed in and become more 'loose' but that will come with time. I am now happy with the level of noise in the background which is no longer audible from the seating position. I just have to contend with the valve flutter...!

[RothwellAudio]

Right then, with two ferrite clips per cable from the turntable to the headamp, one at each end, all I have now is what I would refer to as residual hiss.

Well, looks like you were right after all :lol:
That's a lesson learned for me.

[petrat]

... and also shows the importance of having loading options on a mc phonostage ;)

[uzzy]

And when it comes time for a retip send it to Expert for a paratrace stylus to be fitted and then have a cartridge that is better than the 103R .. it is amazing you can still get the 103 for £165 new .. total sonic bargain for the price and the upgrade path when time for a retip

[shane]

Thanks Shaun, this thread was just what I needed to tip me over the edge. I can't believe you can get something this good for £165!

http://www.thepippin.plus.com/774/103

[blackstar]

It's very good and just gets better up the 103 chain.