Angle Audiophile Phono Stage

[Dubster68]

I am currently using one of these that sounds pretty good for the price but have a minor issue. When I am not actually playing anything I can here a pulsing in my speakers like a regular thumb every second that gets louder if i turn the volume up. It can't be heard when playing music but must still be there. Also if I touch the tone arm it changes the noise. I never noticed this with my previous Phono Stage anyone any ideas:scratch: ?

[alphaGT]

So is the platter spinning during this time? The motor turning? If not, then it's got to be some kind of ground loop hum. Try a larger ground wire from the table to the pre, and perhaps even be sure the cables from the phono pre are grounded to the main pre? Small humming is not unusual in stereo, power coming in is filthy, differences in ground potentials, and EMF coming in from the sky. Neighboring power lines? Nearby transformers? Unshielded speakers? Electric motors? It can be nerve wracking to find the source.

[jollyfix]

Hi Mick, one of my phono stages is an Angle, no noise issue as you described with it.

[struth]

If it's a valve stage then it's not uncommon to get some very low noises in background Ive had it too. Never found out what it is

[jollyfix]

Not a valve stage Grant, nice phono stage Battery or mains.
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?13317-Review-Angle-Audio-phono-stage

[jollyfix]

Seems like a few people have had issues with them, look at the thread i have linked.

[Firebottle]

If it's a regular 'thump' every second then I guess it's not an earth loop or earthing problem.

Assuming the noise is only coming from the phono stage does it change or disappear when you change from mains (or remove the charger) to battery operation?

[struth]

Not a valve stage Grant, nice phono stage Battery or mains.
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?13317-Review-Angle-Audio-phono-stage

is it just on a battery. If it is, I had that on a bit of kit and it was the battery that was causing it. I changed to a different make and it went. was those battery packs

[walpurgis]

Dodgy capacitor?

[RothwellAudio]

If it's a regular 'thump' every second then I guess it's not an earth loop or earthing problem.

Absolutely! Thicker wires anywhere won't cure this.
My first test would be to disconnect the turntable from the phonostage and insert shorting plugs into the phonostage's input sockets. If the thumping disappears the problem may be with the turntable. Or it may not. But I would try the shorting plugs first to see what happens.
BTW, does the thumping only occur with the turntable spinning?

[brian2957]

Why not contact Chris at Angle Audio via Ebay and ask him to have a look at it . He's a very friendly , helpful guy .

[shire]

Hi, I have one of these a reference 2 very good and quiet as a mouse, Is it the virtual battery model? If it is unplug from mains and run on the battery only, see if that improves, otherwise contact Chris the maker, helpful chap

[Dubster68]

Yeah I am going to contact Chris as it is definitely the Phono Stage. Other stages don't do it and even with the power off to the turntable it still pulses through the speakers. It's like the sound of a deisel generator ticking over. Not buzzing or hiss. Very strange. It stops if I touch the headshell. It only does all this with the Angle. Every other stage is perfect.

[Simon_LDT]

Strange that it goes away when you touch the headshell. I'm not clued up enough to know what that means but I would guess you touching the headshell is maybe helping to ground something and making the pulsing thump go away.

I've got a Ref 2 Angle stage, which has been silent since the day I got it. Mine is a mains only unit though as I did not like the battery unit at all (noisy and had problems with charging). I've since got a Linear PSU which now powers the Ref 2.

Chris is a nice chap to deal with and always responds in good time.

[Arkless Electronics]

Try switching off all wi fi.

[Dubster68]

?

[Arkless Electronics]

?

you know wi-fi... connects up computers. printers, router etc via radio... switch it all off. RF interference.

[Marco]

...and then you won't be able to post on the forum to report any difference ;)

Marco.

[Dubster68]

Turned all wifi off put tin foil on my head and shouted at the dog. Sorry to say nothing has worked. Sent Chris an email as it's beyond me. Old Phono Stage is working like a dream 😳Thanks everyone for the ideas and help👍🏻

[Marco]

Turned all wifi off put tin foil on my head and shouted at the dog. Sorry to say nothing has worked.

Unfortunately it only works on a Tuesday.

Marco.

[Dubster68]

Unfortunately it only works on a Tuesday.

Marco.

:rfl::rfl::rfl::rfl::rfl:

[Arkless Electronics]

If anyone has issues with a ticking/clicking sound with a frequency of about 5 clicks per second ish then wi-fi should be your first suspect;) Especially if very close to a wi-fi source (what a stupid name isn't it!? wi-fi FFS!).

[Dubster68]

If anyone has issues with a ticking/clicking sound with a frequency of about 5 clicks per second ish then wi-fi should be your first suspect;) Especially if very close to a wi-fi source (what a stupid name isn't it!? wi-fi FFS!).
Tried all that Jez. Like I said my other 2 stages work with no problems no matter how much the volume is up.
I will see what Chris from Angle says if he gets back to me.

[Arkless Electronics]

Tried all that Jez. Like I said my other 2 stages work with no problems no matter how much the volume is up.
I will see what Chris from Angle says if he gets back to me.

Some are prone to picking it up and some totally impervious.... Just because two are fine, even ten are fine, doesn't mean this one isn't being effected;) However having re-read earlier in the thread you say it is a single click/thump once a second which doesn't sound like wi fi interference. Interesting...

[alphaGT]

Yeah I am going to contact Chris as it is definitely the Phono Stage. Other stages don't do it and even with the power off to the turntable it still pulses through the speakers. It's like the sound of a deisel generator ticking over. Not buzzing or hiss. Very strange. It stops if I touch the headshell. It only does all this with the Angle. Every other stage is perfect.

Touching the headshell is a real clue, has to be ground related.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Arkless Electronics]

More info on the nature of the noise would be useful.

[Dubster68]

I dont know if this link will work to a video showing the noise. Please ignore the 2 loud pops that was me.


http://vid24.photobucket.com/albums/c25/Mick1B/IMG_4351.mp4

[Arkless Electronics]

I dont know if this link will work to a video showing the noise. Please ignore the 2 loud pops that was me.


https://www.facebook.com/mickmcneilbreckon/videos/10155031046012146/

Not for those who aren't on facebook like myself no....

[Dubster68]

Changed the link Jez see if that one works

http://vid24.photobucket.com/albums/c25/Mick1B/IMG_4351.mp4

[Arkless Electronics]

That worked. Almost certainly wi-fi interference from what I heard there. Maybe not your wi-fi but it generally needs to be pretty close to cause it. Does it still happen with the TT unplugged from the phono stage?

[Dubster68]

if the turntable is plugged in on or off even at the mains the noise is still there. If the phono stage is disconnected from the turntable nothing.

[Arkless Electronics]

if the turntable is plugged in on or off even at the mains the noise is still there. If the phono stage is disconnected from the turntable nothing.

The latter is what I meant yes. Are you sure you turned ALL your wi fi off when checking for this yesterday? Wi fi connected devices will have their own transmitters of course. In cases where I have a phono stage which is prone to this I get exactly the same sound. My wi fi router is about a yard from where I have my TT and phono stage and as expected, switching off the router kills the interference. If I'm using my battery head amp I have to switch the router off or entirely wrap the plastic cased head amp in tinfoil. It seems that in your case the arm lead is acting as an aerial... A neighbour may of course have their router just on the other side of the wall from your TT....

[Dubster68]

The latter is what I meant yes. Are you sure you turned ALL your wi fi off when checking for this yesterday? Wi fi connected devices will have their own transmitters of course. In cases where I have a phono stage which is prone to this I get exactly the same sound. My wi fi router is about a yard from where I have my TT and phono stage and as expected, switching off the router kills the interference. If I'm using my battery head amp I have to switch the router off or entirely wrap the plastic cased head amp in tinfoil. It seems that in your case the arm lead is acting as an aerial... A neighbour may of course have their router just on the other side of the wall from your TT....

Thanks Jez

I have tried everything off/on upside down:scratch: I know my neighbours wifi is very strong in my house nearly a full signal. What I have noticed if the stage is moved around it increases or decreases the pulsing. I think I will give up and use one of my other ones that makes no noise. I am going to try it on my friends turntable later to see if this causes him any issues. The noise is only there when nothing is playing and at pretty high volume. Day to day you probably dont hear it. Its just me fiddling and finding these things:rolleyes:

[Arkless Electronics]

Thanks Jez

I have tried everything off/on upside down:scratch: I know my neighbours wifi is very strong in my house nearly a full signal. What I have noticed if the stage is moved around it increases or decreases the pulsing. I think I will give up and use one of my other ones that makes no noise. I am going to try it on my friends turntable later to see if this causes him any issues. The noise is only there when nothing is playing and at pretty high volume. Day to day you probably dont hear it. Its just me fiddling and finding these things:rolleyes:

I'd expect that.... You could try a large sheet of tinfoil and move that around close to the phono stage and arm leads to give somewhat of a screening effect. It could help to show where it's coming from....

[Dubster68]

I will have a fiddle later and report back.

[RothwellAudio]

...I can here a pulsing in my speakers like a regular thumb every second...

It might have helped if you had described the noise a bit better at the start - that isn't a thump (thumb?) every second, more like ten to fifteen clicks every second.
Is the case of the phonostage metal or plastic? A metal case should be enough to screen it.

[Dubster68]

It might have helped if you had described the noise a bit better at the start - that isn't a thump (thumb?) every second, more like ten to fifteen clicks every second.
Is the case of the phonostage metal or plastic? A metal case should be enough to screen it.Andrew it was hard to put into words initially. Its in a Angle Audio aluminium case as standard.

[RothwellAudio]

I'm surprised that an aluminium case isn't shielding the circuit well enough. Maybe it's RF being picked up in the cartridge and fed into the phonostage's inputs. A slightly more effective RF filter at the inputs may cure it, but I think we're near the limits of what can be done over a forum - I think it probably needs to be looked at by an engineer.

[Dubster68]

I have just reverted back to my other stages that work perfectly no noise through the speakers etc
. I am going to try the Angle one at a friends tomorrow so that should confirm if it is this or something else.

[Arkless Electronics]

I have just reverted back to my other stages that work perfectly no noise through the speakers etc
. I am going to try the Angle one at a friends tomorrow so that should confirm if it is this or something else.

It's this;) Exactly the same sound I get with my plastic case head amp which goes when I switch off the router a yard away.... In my case if I wrap the plastic case in tinfoil it goes. From your description it sounds like it's entering via the phono lead in your case. As Andrew says, this is something that is simpler if you're there...

[RothwellAudio]

[QUOTE=Dubster68;829199I am going to try the Angle one at a friends tomorrow so that should confirm if it is this or something else.[/QUOTE]
No, it won't. If your friend doesn't have a strong source of RF in the vicinity you won't hear any noise. That doesn't prove anything.

[struth]

Well, it might kinda prove the machine is being affected by something in his house

[Dubster68]

That is my point Grant. I have turned everything off at home and still the noise persists. My friend has wifi router closer to his turntable than me so see what happens.

[Dubster68]

Well the phono stage was taken to my friends and as expected worked perfect with out any issues. Apart from selling and moving to something else I don't know what to do. I have switched everything off electrical wifi phones tvs and the noise is still there at home. It does alter as I move the stages location but never truly goes. I can't hear it at all whilst playing and only when the music is silent during higher volumes. Will this be transferring to my music when playing? I know people have had these issues but both my previous stages did not have this issue and worked silently.

[struth]

is there any way you an get it as far away as possible from everything including cables associated for the system. Other possible is an extra metal shield round it.

[Dubster68]

is there any way you an get it as far away as possible from everything including cables associated for the system. Other possible is an extra metal shield round it.

Grant

After dismantling my rack to get the cables out I extended my turntable cable and moved the stage another 4 foot from my turntable and amp and the sound is gone:scratch: Glad the sound is gone but surely this shouldn't have to be done in the first place. Is it down to the poor shielding of the phono stage in the first place ? who knows as like I said my old stages dont have this problem.

[struth]

Was thinking that might be prob. I had it with a test head amp. Shielding on these gain amps can be underdone. Signal and mains cables etc can drive them nuts. Glad you've found answers

[Dubster68]

Was thinking that might be prob. I had it with a test head amp. Shielding on these gain amps can be underdone. Signal and mains cables etc can drive them nuts. Glad you've found answers

Thanks for the support:D

[Firebottle]

I'm guessing the noise might be coming from your Denon amp. Whether it has a switching power supply or it's leakage from the processing engine I don't know.

Move your phono stage closer and around your amp just to prove it, for everyone's future info.

:)

[brian2957]

I have an Angle Audio phono stage and it's sitting right in the middle of my system with no issues .

It's excellent BTW and Chris at Angle Audio is a very helpful chap .

[RothwellAudio]

The fact that the noise (when it was present) could be "cured" by touching the headshell suggests to me that maybe the tonearm and/or the other metal parts of the turntable aren't connected properly to the earth wire which runs back to the phonostage. It would be worth checking.

Another possibility is that the capacitance of the interconnects was just right to tune into the RF noise and that extending the interconnects has added enough extra capacitance to de-tune it.

[Dubster68]

I think I will look at the earth later. My Jelco tone arm is a straight run from cart to the Phono Stage with its own earth. The original Technics was earned also to the pitch fader. I was told you don't need that earth. Should I add an earth from the armboard to the turntable ?

[Dubster68]

I'm guessing the noise might be coming from your Denon amp. Whether it has a switching power supply or it's leakage from the processing engine I don't know.

Move your phono stage closer and around your amp just to prove it, for everyone's future info.

:)
Yeah it' makes more noise if closer to the amp. If I moved it backwards and forwards the intensity changed

[RothwellAudio]

I think I will look at the earth later. My Jelco tone arm is a straight run from cart to the Phono Stage with its own earth. The original Technics was earned also to the pitch fader. I was told you don't need that earth. Should I add an earth from the armboard to the turntable ?
The 4 pins on the back of the cartridge should connect to L+R RCA plugs +ve and -ve. The earth wire back to the phonostage should connect to the tonearm and any other metalwork in the turntable. It should not have any connection to the cartridge at all.

[Dubster68]

Sorry it's the way I tried to explain it. The tone arm terminates as you said at the cartridge and the plug at the bottom of the tone arm is earthed there back to the Phono Stage (Jelco plug)I wasn't meaning it was another earth at the cartridge if that makes sense.

[RothwellAudio]

I would want the turntable's metalwork to connect to that earth wire too. That can be done simply by having the tonearm bolted down, but if the metal parts are anodised or powder coated there may be more work needed to ensure the turntable is earthed properly.

BTW, I don't know a great deal about Technics turntables but aren't they stuffed with electronics? Possibly with quartz oscillators? In that case I would certainly want the turntable connected to the earth wire.

[Dubster68]

Thanks for the advice. This is my job when I get in 👍🏻

[Dubster68]

Well all earths checked everything was fine. When I was reinstalling everything I twisted my Oyaide tone arm cable and the noise stopped:eek:. So after a few tweeks it is all now pulse free(even though I have moved this cable many times). The way I resolved it was to put a loop into the cable before I connected it and all seems ok. If I take the loop out back to a straight cable the noise returns. Not bad for a £250 cable:doh:

Anyway happy now so leaving it. Thanks for all the help. Still cannot understand why my other stages never did this with the same cables.

[RothwellAudio]

A bit more info about the cable might be useful. I've seen more hum/noise problems from expensive cable than I have from cheap cable.

[struth]

Well all earths checked everything was fine. When I was reinstalling everything I twisted my Oyaide tone arm cable and the noise stopped:eek:. So after a few tweeks it is all now pulse free(even though I have moved this cable many times). The way I resolved it was to put a loop into the cable before I connected it and all seems ok. If I take the loop out back to a straight cable the noise returns. Not bad for a £250 cable:doh:

Anyway happy now so leaving it. Thanks for all the help. Still cannot understand why my other stages never did this with the same cables.

Twisting it might have cancelled the hum. Always good when your fixed..

[Dubster68]

Phono Stage to amp is Oyaide PA-2075 RCA to RCA

Tone Arm to Phone Stage Oyaide PA-2075 Straight Din to RCA

Never had an issue with my cables until the Angle Audio Phono Stage.

Very strange

[Arkless Electronics]

It is 100% definitely wi-fi interference. Probably made it a much worse aerial by the loop in the cable...
As I explained (twice I think) just cos even 100 phono stages don't do it doesn't mean another 1 won't. It all depends on their design and on what measures have been taken to prevent such things.

[Dubster68]

If it is wifi interference it isn't mine as I have turned everything off and it was still there. The loop removed the problem so how this making it worse ? Just trying to get to the bottom of it.