WTD: Amps for Tannoy HPDs [Archive] - The Art of Sound Forum

View Full Version : WTD: Amps for Tannoy HPDs

JohnJo

26-01-2017, 10:27

walpurgis

26-01-2017, 10:40

I'd suggest trying to get a listen to a Creek Destiny 2 integrated. Bags of grip and power, but very clean and smooth, which suits Tannoys.

http://www.techradar.com/reviews/audio-visual/hi-fi-and-audio/amplifiers/creek-destiny-2-926937/review

http://www.creekaudio.com/old-products/destiny-2-integrated-amplifier/

I've had my eye open for one myself, to drive my Cheviot II speakers.

struth

26-01-2017, 10:44

A krell might be a choice. Plenty power and grip at least.

Infinitely Baffled

26-01-2017, 11:03

I am conscious that there seems to be a big difference in power requirements for Monitor Golds and HPDs. Amps I see people recommending for Golds will NOT work with my speakers (15 watts etc). e.g. I had a loan of a genuine First Watt M2, 25 watter and it was utterly hopeless. 40W Albarry monoblocks no use either. 50W Croft integrated just suffient.

Hello, John. Nice problem to have!
I'm not technical at all, so I'll admit right off to probably talking a load of nonsense, but is it really high watts output that you need? I say this bcause, as I write, I'm sitting here listening to a CD playing through the power section of my back-up amp - a NAD 3020. This little fella musters all of 20 wpc (I think), but more importantly - for the point I am trying to make - is that it has got one of those irritating little LED displays on the front panel showing the power it is putting out in watts. It is currently telling me that, even though I am listening quite loud, its output is occasionally peaking at 1 wpc! I have no idea how accurate the display is. But even if it is out by a factor of 10 and I'm outputting 10 watts, it's still not a lot. Isn't it more likely that the difference you are hearing between various amps when driving your loudspeakers is down more to design choices and implementation, rather than outright watts?
IB

montesquieu

26-01-2017, 11:08

Hello All

I'm looking to upgrade my my PrimaLuna Prologue 5 power amp and passive pre amp which have actually seen off quite a few contenders to date.

Source is Naim CDS 1 and speakers are Lockwood Academy 1, sealed box studio monitors with Tannoy 15" HPD385s and original crossovers.

I am conscious that there seems to be a big difference in power requirements for Monitor Golds and HPDs. Amps I see people recommending for Golds will NOT work with my speakers (15 watts etc). e.g. I had a loan of a genuine First Watt M2, 25 watter and it was utterly hopeless. 40W Albarry monoblocks no use either. 50W Croft integrated just sufficient.

My PL amp with KT120s just sufficient too.

I seem to prefer valves but I'm open minded :)

Looking for pre/power or integrated, don't need phono stage or tape loop.

Budget slightly flexible at around £3K.

Home demo is a must and I'm in Northern Ireland, on the Belfast side of Ballymena.

Anybody got anything?

Thanks a lot.

John

P.S. have a loan of a very nice Tron 7 linestage which will be getting an airing tonight :eyebrows:

Totally agree, HPDs need more power than Golds, full stop. Some people seem to do well enough with a Radford STA-25 (about 35-40w) but I think that would only work well in a smaller room and while good for 12in HPDs probably won't get the best from 15in HPDs. (You don't say which?)

For valve amps I would say that means the sort of thing I generally run: 70w upwards of KT88/KT90/KT120/KT150. The EAR 899 integrated I sold a while back would have been perfect. That's what I'd be looking for, or something a bit older and second hand from C-J or ARC, with rows of tubes in it.

I won't be selling my Radford STA-100 as I've frankly never heard a better amp with HPDs (the ones that ran closest or equal were EAR 534 and Leben 1000p both of which I'd strongly recommend).

Nice pair of Art Concertos in the classifieds at the moment but I think tricky to audition if you are in NI (though I'd put them back to pentode, a KT88 in triode isn't really a KT88 at all).

JohnJo

26-01-2017, 12:49

Hello, John. Nice problem to have!
I'm not technical at all, so I'll admit right off to probably talking a load of nonsense, but is it really high watts output that you need? I say this bcause, as I write, I'm sitting here listening to a CD playing through the power section of my back-up amp - a NAD 3020. This little fella musters all of 20 wpc (I think), but more importantly - for the point I am trying to make - is that it has got one of those irritating little LED displays on the front panel showing the power it is putting out in watts. It is currently telling me that, even though I am listening quite loud, its output is occasionally peaking at 1 wpc! I have no idea how accurate the display is. But even if it is out by a factor of 10 and I'm outputting 10 watts, it's still not a lot. Isn't it more likely that the difference you are hearing between various amps when driving your loudspeakers is down more to design choices and implementation, rather than outright watts?
IB

TBH Gary, I don't know but from past experiences lower powered amps aren't making the speakers sing.

Edit: Yes it is a nice problem in theory but becomes frustrating when there's nothing local to try! Not going to hand out this sort of money without a home demo :)

JohnJo

26-01-2017, 12:51

Totally agree, HPDs need more power than Golds, full stop. Some people seem to do well enough with a Radford STA-25 (about 35-40w) but I think that would only work well in a smaller room and while good for 12in HPDs probably won't get the best from 15in HPDs. (You don't say which?)

For valve amps I would say that means the sort of thing I generally run: 70w upwards of KT88/KT90/KT120/KT150. The EAR 899 integrated I sold a while back would have been perfect. That's what I'd be looking for, or something a bit older and second hand from C-J or ARC, with rows of tubes in it.

I won't be selling my Radford STA-100 as I've frankly never heard a better amp with HPDs (the ones that ran closest or equal were EAR 534 and Leben 1000p both of which I'd strongly recommend).

Nice pair of Art Concertos in the classifieds at the moment but I think tricky to audition if you are in NI (though I'd put them back to pentode, a KT88 in triode isn't really a KT88 at all).

Sorry Tom, not getting you there? Do you mean which version of HPDs? If so they are 15" 385s as per original post.

montesquieu

26-01-2017, 13:35

Sorry Tom, not getting you there? Do you mean which version of HPDs? If so they are 15" 385s as per original post.

Sorry didn't get that. Explains why you need the extra welly. 15in HPDs really do take a bit of driving and controlling.

One thing you could look at - my Radford will be going for a makeover soon to RAdford Revival - new paint job, boards, a ground-up overhaul - and I've been playing with alternatives to use while that is away. I have an NuPrime STA-9 here at the moment, 120w x 2 / whopping 290w monoblocked. Uses a JFET as input which functions much like a triode to give a very nice, valve-like sound, while the Class D element isn't 'classic' class D at all but uses a high switching rate and an analogue approach to generating the waveform, an evolution of the same approach used in the earlier (more musical) Lyngdorf amplifiers and not the peeling wallpaper fully digital Class D of old by any means.

I chose the STA-9 because of the monoblock option, but am swapping it for a single ST-10 at a little more than twice the price (or a shade more than two monoblocks), as I feel with the 12in HPDs I don't need the extra power and the ST-10 has a shade more transparency (I'm told), I think it's a tough call though but a lot of the stuff I listen to is delicate/nuanced lieder and chamber music, if I was a rock fan or into electronica or even big orchestral stuff I might well jump the other way. I've been very impressed I have to say - there is no UK dealer or distributor but perhaps Rene at Dimex in Belgium will let you try out the STA-9 I'm about to send back? If you like it (and I think you might) another one is easily purchased. For 700 Euros it's a no-brainer and I can categorically say that in my system it is better than some £5k valve amps I've had a listen to. Don't be put off by how cheap it is.

I'm hoping to hear either the high-end evolution of this approach either the Reference 20 monoblock or NuPrime's and coming statement product the Reference One which might be listenable in prototype by the time I visit Taiwan in April. £6k+ a pair though!

Nuprime are the split off high-end division of Nuforce, bought out by the brand's founder (the lower end stuff went with Optoma and are now Optomoa Nuforce) and by all accounts streets ahead of the Hypex nCore competition as they aren't focused on mass market module making for others to OEM, but rather only on making high-end finished kit (all in their own factory).

macvisual

26-01-2017, 14:04

Hi John, as an ex guy from Norn Iron myself, might it be possible for you to call with Kronos Hi-Fi in Dungannon (if they're still trading?) and try borrow something...? Only a thought....

Regards;
Peter
Central Scotland

julesd68

26-01-2017, 14:46

I have an NuPrime STA-9 here at the moment, 120w x 2 / whopping 290w monoblocked. Uses a JFET as input which functions much like a triode to give a very nice, valve-like sound, while the Class D element isn't 'classic' class D at all but uses a high switching rate and an analogue approach to generating the waveform, an evolution of the same approach used in the earlier (more musical) Lyngdorf amplifiers and not the peeling wallpaper fully digital Class D of old by any means.

I chose the STA-9 because of the monoblock option, but am swapping it for a single ST-10 at a little more than twice the price (or a shade more than two monoblocks), as I feel with the 12in HPDs I don't need the extra power and the ST-10 has a shade more transparency (I'm told), I think it's a tough call though but a lot of the stuff I listen to is delicate/nuanced lieder and chamber music, if I was a rock fan or into electronica or even big orchestral stuff I might well jump the other way. I've been very impressed I have to say - there is no UK dealer or distributor but perhaps Rene at Dimex in Belgium will let you try out the STA-9 I'm about to send back? If you like it (and I think you might) another one is easily purchased. For 700 Euros it's a no-brainer and I can categorically say that in my system it is better than some £5k valve amps I've had a listen to. Don't be put off by how cheap it is.

Very interesting indeed, thanks for posting this.

Seems very good value - only $649 in the US ... Shame there is no UK dealer as I would fancy trying this with my 12" HPD's for sure!
I take it you were using it with a valve pre as I would be?

montesquieu

26-01-2017, 14:59

JohnJo

26-01-2017, 21:09

Sorry didn't get that. Explains why you need the extra welly. 15in HPDs really do take a bit of driving and controlling.

One thing you could look at - my Radford will be going for a makeover soon to RAdford Revival - new paint job, boards, a ground-up overhaul - and I've been playing with alternatives to use while that is away. I have an NuPrime STA-9 here at the moment, 120w x 2 / whopping 290w monoblocked. Uses a JFET as input which functions much like a triode to give a very nice, valve-like sound, while the Class D element isn't 'classic' class D at all but uses a high switching rate and an analogue approach to generating the waveform, an evolution of the same approach used in the earlier (more musical) Lyngdorf amplifiers and not the peeling wallpaper fully digital Class D of old by any means.

I chose the STA-9 because of the monoblock option, but am swapping it for a single ST-10 at a little more than twice the price (or a shade more than two monoblocks), as I feel with the 12in HPDs I don't need the extra power and the ST-10 has a shade more transparency (I'm told), I think it's a tough call though but a lot of the stuff I listen to is delicate/nuanced lieder and chamber music, if I was a rock fan or into electronica or even big orchestral stuff I might well jump the other way. I've been very impressed I have to say - there is no UK dealer or distributor but perhaps Rene at Dimex in Belgium will let you try out the STA-9 I'm about to send back? If you like it (and I think you might) another one is easily purchased. For 700 Euros it's a no-brainer and I can categorically say that in my system it is better than some £5k valve amps I've had a listen to. Don't be put off by how cheap it is.

I'm hoping to hear either the high-end evolution of this approach either the Reference 20 monoblock or NuPrime's and coming statement product the Reference One which might be listenable in prototype by the time I visit Taiwan in April. £6k+ a pair though!

Nuprime are the split off high-end division of Nuforce, bought out by the brand's founder (the lower end stuff went with Optoma and are now Optomoa Nuforce) and by all accounts streets ahead of the Hypex nCore competition as they aren't focused on mass market module making for others to OEM, but rather only on making high-end finished kit (all in their own factory).

Very interesting. Not what was on my mind at all but look to be well made. Never heard any class D amps (know nothing about them!)

Sherwood

26-01-2017, 22:28

Very interesting indeed, thanks for posting this.

Seems very good value - only $649 in the US ... Shame there is no UK dealer as I would fancy trying this with my 12" HPD's for sure!
I take it you were using it with a valve pre as I would be?

I can endorse the Nuprime STA-9 amp. I have two configured for monoblocks operation. As good as the STA-9 is in stereo mode (it actually drove my Magneplanar 1.7 speakers very well which is no mean feat) it is a very different amp in monoblock mode. Not just louder and with better bass extension and control, but a more etched sound with better detail resolution. The already low noise floor completely disappears in monoblock mode. I also considered the ST-10 integrated which I heard on a trip to the USA just before Christmas but still prefered the two STA-9's which are about the same price. Another advantage I have found with the STA-9s is that they respond well to using XLR balanced interconnects with very short speaker cable runs.

Geoff

JohnJo

03-02-2017, 10:04

Bump. Anything out there?

lewis

04-02-2017, 18:50

PM sent.

anubisgrau

04-02-2017, 18:59

Did Nuforce/Nuprime sort all the DC leaking issues they had in the past?

montesquieu

04-02-2017, 20:52

Did Nuforce/Nuprime sort all the DC leaking issues they had in the past?

I'm in the process of trying to send back the STA-9 ... unfortunately there's no way to listen to the ST-10 in the UK on demo, or to get hold of another STA-9 to try the twin monoblocs, without acutally making a purchase. I'm reluctant to shell out the difference in cash, in the absence of a dealer prepared to put demo kit where their mouth is .... so back to valve amps.

Sad as there's a possibility it might well have been the way forward - the STA-9 remains a bargain for £700, and I stand by what I said about it being better than some £5k valve amps, the musicality and ambience is very good indeed though it lacks ultimate detail which is why I was trying to hear the ST-10. If Nuprime are serious about market development then they need to have dealers with demo kit in the European geography.

Anyway - to be frank - I am sorry for what I posted above, I had no idea the Belgian dealer would play it this way - he doesn't seem to have heard of the EU distance selling regulations, so I'm struggling for a refund. I definitely take back any recommendation!

Ninanina

04-02-2017, 21:04

montesquieu

04-02-2017, 21:09

Trust me, won't do the job at all ... Tannoy 15in DCs (especially the HPDs) need a fair whack of current up them (and a decent damping factor) to control those 15in cones. HPDs in particular have extra mass in the cone that Monitor Golds don't have. Single ended amps (which usually have bugger all damping factor), don't cut it at all, 10w push pull (like the Audio Note) will drive them but sound no better than 'ok'. I would say a minimum of 40w push pull .. the ideal here is a 70w KT88/KT90 amp, anything short of that while it might sound pleaseant enought will NOT cut the mustard with 15in HPDs.

John am I correct in saying that the Tannoy 15" HPD385s are rated at about 92dB?

If so I cannot see how they need so much power... maybe they are a tricky load for the amp for some reason or you have quite a large room..

Otherwise I would have recommended this Audio Note amp which is about 10w: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Audio-Note-P1-Class-A-EL84-Push-Pull-Valve-Tube-Stereo-Power-Amp-GWO-SUPERB-/192090212647?hash=item2cb9780927:g:Uj4AAOSw2xRYjPa m

Ninanina

04-02-2017, 21:15

Trust me, won't do the job at all ... Tannoy 15in DCs (especially the HPDs) need a fair whack of current up them (and a decent damping factor) to control those 15in cones. HPDs in particular have extra mass in the cone that Monitor Golds don't have. Single ended amps (which usually have bugger all damping factor), don't cut it at all, 10w push pull (like the Audio Note) will drive them but sound no better than 'ok'. I would say a minimum of 40w push pull .. the ideal here is a 70w KT88/KT90 amp, anything short of that while it might sound pleaseant enought will NOT cut the mustard with 15in HPDs.

Oky doky... They are obviously more tricky to drive than their 92dB would suggest... I have no idea as I've never owned a set or 15" HPD's ;)

Ninanina

04-02-2017, 21:57

How about the Yaqin MC-100B KT88 ?

It has about 50 watts in Ultra linear mode: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Yaqin-MC-100B-KT88-Vacuum-Tube-Hi-end-Integrated-Power-Amplifier-110v-240v-Gold-/311496143151?_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6368

I had one for a short while and even though I didn't like it in my system it might suit other systems better.. maybe ok with the Tannoy 15" HPD385 ;)

JohnJo

04-02-2017, 22:00

I'm in the process of trying to send back the STA-9 ... unfortunately there's no way to listen to the ST-10 in the UK on demo, or to get hold of another STA-9 to try the twin monoblocs, without acutally making a purchase. I'm reluctant to shell out the difference in cash, in the absence of a dealer prepared to put demo kit where their mouth is .... so back to valve amps.

Sad as there's a possibility it might well have been the way forward - the STA-9 remains a bargain for £700, and I stand by what I said about it being better than some £5k valve amps, the musicality and ambience is very good indeed though it lacks ultimate detail which is why I was trying to hear the ST-10. If Nuprime are serious about market development then they need to have dealers with demo kit in the European geography.

Anyway - to be frank - I am sorry for what I posted above, I had no idea the Belgian dealer would play it this way - he doesn't seem to have heard of the EU distance selling regulations, so I'm struggling for a refund. I definitely take back any recommendation!

That's a pity. Probably tricky if a repair was needed down the line too. Hope you get sorted.

JohnJo

04-02-2017, 22:07

John am I correct in saying that the Tannoy 15" HPD385s are rated at about 92dB?

If so I cannot see why they need so much power... maybe they are a tricky load for the amp for some reason or you have quite a large room..

Otherwise I would have recommended this Audio Note amp which is about 10w: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Audio-Note-P1-Class-A-EL84-Push-Pull-Valve-Tube-Stereo-Power-Amp-GWO-SUPERB-/192090212647?hash=item2cb9780927:g:Uj4AAOSw2xRYjPa m

Hi Nina. Yes, they are supposed to be 92 db but my guess is they are a highly inductive load at the same time which means you need a big current capability to prevent them sounding flat and undynamic. I've seen a few suitable amps but to genuinely better my Primaluna I will probably need to spend a couple of thousand minimum and I'm not handing that out without a demo. If nothing shows up I may take a trip to Britain in the late spring or early summer and try out as many as I can.

Just spent a fair whack of my budget on some nice cables though :doh:

Reckoned I wouldn't be getting the best out of my equipment without them.

Ninanina

04-02-2017, 22:17

Hi Nina. Yes, they are supposed to be 92 db but my guess is they are a highly inductive load at the same time which means you need a big current capability to prevent them sounding flat and undynamic. I've seen a few suitable amps but to genuinely better my Primaluna I will probably need to spend a couple of thousand minimum and I'm not handing that out without a demo. If nothing shows up I may take a trip to Britain in the late spring or early summer and try out as many as I can.

Just spent a fair whack of my budget on some nice cables though :doh:

Reckoned I wouldn't be getting the best out of my equipment without them.

Sounds good to me John ;)

Ninanina

05-02-2017, 01:13

You could maybe try some of the newer Quad amps

I heard the Elite amp and it was very good indeed... however that was not with anything like your Tannoy speakers, but it was very impressive all the same..