View Full Version : Is it a box of coal?????
RothwellAudio
19-01-2017, 10:09
Just stumbled across this on ebay:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Aucharm-Audio-Grounding-Box-with-Crocodile-lip-Ground-Wire-/322387741958?hash=item4b0fce8d06:g:DOEAAOSwXeJYLbl 6
It's sold as "grounding box" but looks like a box of coal with a wire attached to the coal. Eh?
I'm gob-smacked!
Michael loves music
19-01-2017, 10:16
Total rubbish should be on a Bon fire some mug will buy it
Lawrence001
19-01-2017, 10:20
They are called "Aucharm" audio its an interesting name. It's not coal it's Tourmaline, see this link for its "grounding" properties. Apparently it grounds "between earth and the human spirit" but it does also seem to have electrical properties which may have caused people to create this link to mystical properties, so I wouldn't entirely write it off.
https://www.crystalvaults.com/crystal-encyclopedia/black-tourmaline
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walpurgis
19-01-2017, 10:24
It doesn't 'ground' to anything. Nonsense in my opinion.
The wife was into her crystals. Ive still got hundreds here. Some tourmaline as well. She was a spiritualist. Only crystal i like is my whisky decanter :lol:
hifi_dave
19-01-2017, 11:22
Looks very much like an Entreq device but at 10% of the price. So, if you believe in such things, it's good value.
Lawrence001
19-01-2017, 11:35
Yes £6200 for a box of minerals does seem excessive
http://www.lotushifi.co.uk/portfolio-items/entreq-grounding-boxes/
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Trouble is that although crystals do, or are supposed to absorb energy, they required washing and recharging ;) so that box of tricks will need replacing regularly to continue to work :eek: its a goldmine and i may start making them..
Audio Al
19-01-2017, 11:59
Is the coal loving dipped in hi grade snake oil by virgins :)
The Entreq box was measured and was found to pick up RFI. Some people seem to find this improves the sound. I guess this does the same.
Yes, I know. Bit it's a big world and room enough for everyone.
hifi_dave
19-01-2017, 13:22
Some of these things do make a 'difference', not necessarily an improvement but it's the stupid prices which trouble me.
I did see on't internet, an Entreq box opened up, showing the workings inside but not sure where.
Some of these things do make a 'difference', not necessarily an improvement but it's the stupid prices which trouble me.
I did see on't internet, an Entreq box opened up, showing the workings inside but not sure where.
There was but there is some doubt as to whether it is a real one or something someone mocked up as a piss-take. They are just wooden boxes with some wire in them, though, so as you say the prices asked are a nonsense.
Looks very much like an Entreq device but at 10% of the price. So, if you believe in such things, it's good value.
Yes, but probably bette made... Sad to say but Entreq is really lowering the perception of Swedish quality...
But dudes, unless you have heard what some Entreq boxes can do to the sound quality, i wouldn't be so quick to dismiss their effect.
hifi_dave
19-01-2017, 13:58
I have heard an Entreq which did make a small 'difference'. It's the prices which I find difficult to swallow.
Yes, but probably bette made... Sad to say but Entreq is really lowering the perception of Swedish quality...
But dudes, unless you have heard what some Entreq boxes can do to the sound quality, i wouldn't be so quick to dismiss their effect.
The only thing it does is make it easier for the attached system to pick up RFI. You could do that with a coat hanger. I'm not saying that RFI can't make a system sound subjectively better, it is the nature of subjectivism that any effect, whether technically deleterious or not, can have a positive effect. Why anyone would pay thousands of pounds for it is a different matter.
We are in full understanding regarding the prices! Thats why i only use one Minimus in my system! :)
hifi_dave
19-01-2017, 15:32
The only thing it does is make it easier for the attached system to pick up RFI. You could do that with a coat hanger. I'm not saying that RFI can't make a system sound subjectively better, it is the nature of subjectivism that any effect, whether technically deleterious or not, can have a positive effect. Why anyone would pay thousands of pounds for it is a different matter.
Just took a look at some prices, such as £60 for an earth wire. That's a wire !!!
I particularly like the "nuts", the Everest and K2! :)
Not for the common(sense) man!
RothwellAudio
19-01-2017, 16:27
I was gob-smacked by the box of coal (which turned out not to be coal) but the Entreq stuff takes it on to a whole new level!
:sofa::uhho:I'm not getting involved
We are in full understanding regarding the prices! Thats why i only use one Minimus in my system! :)
How would you describe the effect of the Minimus on the sound, Mike?
Just took a look at some prices, such as £60 for an earth wire. That's a wire !!!
Some people are paying £90 for a fuse. ;)
Some people are paying £90 for a fuse. ;)
ha ha nice one barry!
How would you describe the effect of the Minimus on the sound, Mike?
First of all, the effect in my system is subtle but obvious when used to the sound. I have the Minimus connected (via a custom made solid core copper wire) to the ground connector on my phono stage.
Perhaps its placebo, but my impression is that it actually lessens background hash, the tiny details are more easily heard and music is more soothing. I have not had any obvious effects elsewhere in my rig.
First of all, the effect in my system is subtle but obvious when used to the sound. I have the Minimus connected (via a custom made solid core copper wire) to the ground connector on my phono stage.
Perhaps its placebo, but my impression is that it actually lessens background hash, the tiny details are more easily heard and music is more soothing. I have not had any obvious effects elsewhere in my rig.
I'm happy to rule out placebo and agree that it is having a real effect. I suspect the makers of these boxes don't have a clue how it works either even though they claim they do. That's the part I don't get on with.
09mike69
21-01-2017, 20:59
how do you use them?
cyclopse
23-01-2017, 20:26
Some people are paying £90 for a fuse. ;)
Bit different to paying up to £6K for a box like this;-
http://http://www.monoandstereo.com/2015/12/entreq-tellus-passive-ground-system.html (http://www.monoandstereo.com/2015/12/entreq-tellus-passive-ground-system.html)
walpurgis
23-01-2017, 20:48
Bit different to paying up to £6K for a box like this;-
http://http://www.monoandstereo.com/2015/12/entreq-tellus-passive-ground-system.html (http://www.monoandstereo.com/2015/12/entreq-tellus-passive-ground-system.html)
Go on. You know you want one. :D
hifi_dave
26-01-2017, 15:42
I can't work out if that is an expose of an Entreq box or a DIY article on building your own for a couple of Quid ?
They are the pics that some have claimed are not real. Sadly, I suspect they are.
If they were asking a couple of hundred and holding their hands up and saying 'we don't know why it works it just does, and it may well be degrading the sound in a subjectively pleasant way but who cares? So give it a go' I'd have no problem. It's the fact they are asking 6 large and giving it all the bullshit science that does me in.
Firebottle
26-01-2017, 18:37
Well I think that stands for everyone Martin :eek:
hifi_dave
27-01-2017, 16:51
They are the pics that some have claimed are not real. Sadly, I suspect they are.
If they were asking a couple of hundred and holding their hands up and saying 'we don't know why it works it just does, and it may well be degrading the sound in a subjectively pleasant way but who cares? So give it a go' I'd have no problem. It's the fact they are asking 6 large and giving it all the bullshit science that does me in.
Yep, I go along with that.
The construction looks a touch 'scruffy' to my eyes. I'm no cabinet maker but could do a neater job than that. Paul at RFC could knock these up, immaculately and in his sleep. Might be a nice sideline for him.
BilliumB
28-01-2017, 20:10
If they do something, any thoughts on how they might? I know that elsewhere on the web some people swear by them (in a good way)!
I know the Entreq adverts talk about "physics and magnetic field technology", suggesting the box "... present[s] itself as an attractive destination for high frequency noise, stray voltages and the various issues induced by magnetic field effects."
Cheers. Bill
It's not just Entreq, lots of other companies are looking into similar products. CAD among others if i didnt misinterpret the latest Hifi+?
If im not totally wrong, you could measure some form of electrical properties in the grund boxes, such as impedance, capacitance, resistance or what'have'you..
Entreq have been at it for decades with cables with grounding, and the Tellus,Minimus,Olympus build on that idea suggesting that the box'o'dirt can, and will, be a better alternative than the already polluted power network ground. Or you could just take your sledgehammer and pound a meter of iron down in your back yard. Then attach your electronics using extremely low resistance cables to this ground post!
I am, seriously, positive that most of you would find your setup sounding better! :)
dimkasta
28-01-2017, 23:35
Mike, Entreq devices are not an alternative to protective earth grounding. They stress this in the manual. And thank God for that because it is very dangerous and illegal to defeat the mains earth grounding on any device.
On their home page, they claim that these work as some sort of grounding for noise. To quote their site
When you connect your system to one of our groundboxes you offer this high frequence stay voltages a ground point where they can find peace instead of flowing arround in the system.
There seems to be much confusion about how earth connection works. People confuse its operation with how thunder works. But earth is not just a black hole for all electricity.
The reason protective earth grounding works is because the electrical company references the mains voltages to earth before sending them to us. That way earth itself can become part of the return loop when accidents happen.
This is also the reason why isolation transformers can work as protection. Because there is no earth reference on the secondary.
For noise or whatever to have an attractive destination, there has to be an "attractive" electrical potential difference and a loop.
With just one wire going to those boxes, nothing can flow in or out from them, unless it creates a loop somehow.
And the only way this can happen is by parasitic coupling with whatever happens to be nearby. Could be electromagnetic coupling, capacitive or whatnot. And by the way, this road goes both ways... Probably why there have been reports of extra noise.
And you certainly cannot measure any parameters like capacitance or noise or whatnot with just one connection.
Now people will think of thunder. No loop there and thunder moves to ground.
Ok, but this is a different situation. These are static charges. Earth builds a positive charge and clouds build a negative charge, allowing the two to eliminate each other when the potential difference is enough to break the air's resistance.
How do these boxes create a charge in the first place?
And if they do, how do they create a charge that is opposite, equal and of the same frequency and phase with the noise of our system? Because if they do not, guess what. They just introduce new noise.
Would you expect the static charge on your vinyl to eliminate the noise in your phono?
If there is a difference to be heard, it is completely random, and it is because of parasitic coupling with whatever happens to be nearby.
Some investigation of the Entreq here:
http://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/entreq-signal-grounding-preliminary-measurements.476/
walpurgis
28-01-2017, 23:45
Some investigation of the Entreq here:
http://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/entreq-signal-grounding-preliminary-measurements.476/
He says nothing about using a screened cable, which may have kept noise down. But neither does the maker, as far as I know. None of the results show anything encouraging though.
dimkasta
29-01-2017, 00:53
Some investigation of the Entreq here:
http://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/entreq-signal-grounding-preliminary-measurements.476/
No surprises there... It just adds noise that it picks up from its surroundings.
He says nothing about using a screened cable, which may have kept noise down. But neither does the maker, as far as I know. None of the results show anything encouraging though.
A screened cable would make little difference. The box is unshielded and the metal plates inside it probably pick up more noise.
Not to mention the hilarity of the fact that it cannot even eliminate the noise it picks up from its unconnected surroundings...
Dimmy, please note that not one of these products offer any form of "protective grounding"
They are all built to connect to signal ground of a suitable component.
And i'm pretty sure very few audio products have common ground for signal and power.
Why they work? I have no idea... Even if they add noise, it is a pleasant effect with the ones ive tried connected. The effect varies depending on your environment and electronics.
And no, a closed circuit is not necessary for a component to affect signal i'd say... (But please don't ask me to elaborate! ;))
dimkasta
29-01-2017, 21:02
Dimmy, please note that not one of these products offer any form of "protective grounding".
They are all built to connect to signal ground of a suitable component.
Yep that is what I said above because you mentioned a separate earth rod as an alternative. These are different things but might create confusion. That is why I wrote the long post.
And i'm pretty sure very few audio products have common ground for signal and power.
If by common ground you mean the logical 0V point, then you are wrong. Signal and power do need the same reference point. That is 0V or Ground as it is usually referred to (to confuse people because it is not the protective earth). If you mean the protective earth connection, then again that 0V point mentioned above is connected to earth, both for practical reasons (to avoid them floating on different references) and for protection in case of an accident. To avoid loops, something like a thermistor can be used.
Why they work? I have no idea... Even if they add noise, it is a pleasant effect with the ones I've tried connected. The effect varies depending on your environment and electronics.
And no, a closed circuit is not necessary for a component to affect signal i'd say... (But please don't ask me to elaborate! ;))
I agree it is not necessary. For example on an antenna or on a probe. But those work to receive randoms stuff and are very noisy. They act as high impedance entry points.
About the pleasant effect, I have no argument. I am one of those that do hear a difference between different resistors, capacitors, cables, sockets etc, and I do spend a lot of money on those.
If you are ok with buying a product that does not do what it claims, but still you feel that the change is positive, I have no argument with that.
If I had to rationalize the effect on the sound, I would say that it probably has a similar effect to what dithering does.
IF I bought one of these and the wife found out she would (and with some justification) stab me.
why not just spend the cash on better kit.....or music????
FISH.
mad-moon
17-02-2017, 12:06
:lol:..good post...yeah...buy some cheap pine...stones and a binding post...pinch the copper wire off your lasses iron and off you go.....
I can't work out if that is an expose of an Entreq box or a DIY article on building your own for a couple of Quid ?
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