View Full Version : Heybrook TT2 sub platter issue?
Hi all,
New to the forum and vintage hi-fi too. Bear with me as i don't really know what i'm talking about.
I recently purchased a Heybrook TT2 and the platter is catching on the plinth. The problem seems to be caused by the central bearing being off center but if you try and center it with the three adjusting bolts they seem to have little effect. If any one that has experience of this type of deck, what is the likely cause of the issue, could it be the spring is out of alignment or something as simple as the M6 nut that holds the spring bushes in place needs tightening so as to lift the platter away from the plinth as at the moment there is also not the required 5mm gap between the platter and the plinth,.....
Is is this something an amateur can sort or does it need an expert and if it can be sorted by an amateur any suggestions/ hints on how to tackle this as i do not want to damage anything by just blundering in.
Thanks,
Bob
http://i.imgur.com/0UBSWwk.jpg
Bigman80
10-01-2017, 09:06
Put your platter on a flat surface to check it isn't warped. I've had that before now.
Plenty of people on here with excellent knowledge so I'm sure you'll get it fixed.
Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk
The TT2 used straight aluminium for their platters as I recall. They were superbly turned and didn't appear to warp either, unlike Linn and similar Mazak types if not 'rested' long enough between turning operations.
The sub-chassis should float centrally with the bearing centred in the top plate 'hole.' The springs should sit properly in their grommet bushings and usually, the suspension was easily levelled vertically from the top, the lack of 'twist' in the springs and the specially shaped bottom washers (from distant memory) keeping the adjusting nuts in place as the bolt is twisted. Hopefully a TT2 owner can confirm as it's nearly thirty years since I last set one up - eek!!! Lovely decks if you get 'em right.
I almost bid on this one myself! You got a good deal there, I reckon.
It sound as though the suspension is out of adjustment, which is dead easy to sort out if that's all it is. Does the platter wobble up and down as it rotates? If not, does it always touch the plinth at the same point? If so, whereabouts?
Just to put you in the picture, I designed the TT2, and probably assembled this one.
Bigman80
10-01-2017, 09:59
Lol, that's what I'm talking about. Knowledge.
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One othe point. The EBay listing mentioned the problem, but it's fairly obvious that the tested it without an arm installed. That will throw out the levelling as the weight of the arm has been taken away. Have you put an arm on?
Ok, I'm not paying attention. Your photo shows the turntable without the arm fitted. That's what is causing the problem. If you press down the arm board with your finger next to the arm mounting holes, you,ll see the opposite side of the platter lift up as the chassis levels out.
walpurgis
10-01-2017, 11:01
Why not put a suitable weight on the armboard at the arm mounting point and try it then?
Thanks everyone. Good to have an expert on the case Shane. Were these initialled at all when being assembled?
The platter is true so I think that can be ruled out.
Sadly I don't have a tonearm but even applying the smallest amount of pressure on the armboard causes the platter to bind more. The white / grey areas in the picture show where it is catching and scuffing. Same spot every time.
Tonearms - I'm again completely lost. Have read on here that a Jelco 750d could be a good fit for the TT2. As a newb would this be a complete waste on me and i should start off with something cheaper?
Don't worry, I'm sure it's not a problem. Without the weight of the arm and the correct dressing of the arm lead, the suspension's going to be all over the place, so you really can't make any meaningful assessment of the adjustment. It's extremely unlikely that anything is bent or warped. The chassis is made from 2x1x1/8 steel tube normally used for farm gates and such like, and the platter is a hefty aluminium casting that simply doesn't warp. As a quick check, put the transit bolt in and tighten it up, which clamps the chassis to the bottom of the plinth top plate (if you didn't get a transit bolt with the turntable, it's just an m5x30 bolt with a penny washer on it). With the bolt tight, the platter should sit flat and level, about 8 to 10 mm above the plinth, and should rotate evenly with no rise and fall, although you may find that the belt falls off like this, in which case just put it in the 45rpm position. If that's as it should be, then your TT2 is in good condition, and just needs setting up properly. Did you get the instruction book with it?
Have taken the back off and all the springs were disconnected from the bolts but that may have been me trying to adjust them last night. One spring was definitely out of alignment.
I have just reconnected all the bolts lining up the original red paint marks on the springs and it now seems ok although I am unsure what the clearance between the platter and plinth should be.
I don't have an original manual but I've just downloaded a PDF. Thank god for the internet.
The platter is now floating as it should be and there is no wobble plus its running totally silent so the motor seems in good order. What oil should be used on the sub platter spindle as i think its been off and on a few times and seems to act like a piston so may need a little topping up?
Thanks for all your help.
Is this worth it?
http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/Jelco-SA-750D-tonearm-/122298596777?hash=item1c79907da9%3Ag%3AIrQAAOSwImR YbUBR&_trkparms=pageci%253A05036771-d730-11e6-b561-74dbd1a064d2%257Cparentrq%253A88581a321590a6a8cc0a 8b92ffbafa79%257Ciid%253A1
Subject to more authorised experience, I'd say EP80 or chainsaw oil should be fine for the main bearing as the sleeve is brass as are Regas and there should be little risk of fouling sintered bushings as the TT2 doesn't use them from memory. The chainsaw oil idea comes from the Vinyl Engine Dual forum, where the rather wonderful Renotac oil Dual used in their bearings is no longer available unless you buy a barrel-ful. The chainsaw oil seems to be the same reddish hue and feels similarly tacky by all accounts and appears to do exactly the same job.
I'd set the platter at around 1/8" to 1/4" above the top plate. Turn the outer platter upside down, replace on the bub, start up and watch what the belt is doing when running. It should run pretty centrally on the motor pulley from memory (LP12 pulleys and belts are slightly different here and the LP12 pulley is lightly tapered around the running ridge to allow for fine speed adjustment).
That all makes sense, although again, you won't be able to set the platter height without an arm. Once the arm is in place, the top of the arm board should be level with the side of the plinth. Everything else will then be correct if the plinth and platter are both level.
Never tried the Jelco myself, but there's a lot of love for it round here and it's reported to be a good match for the TT2, especially for cartridges like the Denon 103 that like a bit of mass. It's also beautifully made, and would bolt straight on to your Linn fit arm board. Not sure how much they are new so I can't comment on the price of the one in your link but it looks to be in good nick on a cursory viewing. FWIW, I use a Mission 774 with mine. What cartridge are you thinking of using? Come to that, what's the rest of the system, and what are your musical tastes?
Oh yes, oil. A light machine oil as used for sewing machines and such like is best. I wouldn't use motor or gearbox oil because of the additives, and definitely not 3 in 1! Don't overfill it, otherwise it'll take hours for the platter to settle and the oil will end up all over the chassis and base!
I can't remember what oil was used originally, although someone either here or on the WAD forum actually either designed the thing, or built a goodly few of them for a while - I can't bloody remember.
Back in the day, the Rega RB arms sounded better on this deck than the scrappy in comparison LVX/Basik Plus, so please don't discount one of the superior current models, as Rega have worked darned hard on them I understand (NK has measured the improvements), the details making a positive audible difference and the three-screw fixing probably working even better with wooden mounting boards for all I know.
I'm not ignoring the Jelco either and rather wish I'd got the TD125 back now (my Dual 701 motor electronics aren't reliable any more sadly) as I was intending to try a 10" Jelco 750 when funds permitted - effin' money!!!!! :(
Regarding arms if the pivot is at the centre of the fixing hole then the spindle to pivot length is approx 212mm the hole is approx 31mm with six smaller holes around it.
Ideally I'm after something I can just drop in. Would the RBs or Missions fit the bill?
More info on the TT, it's an an early one as it has the iron subframe. Serial number 476. Could this be one of yours Shane?
Cartridge may be a Denon dl103. It'll be going through an A&R A60 and using a pair of Heybrook HB2's to mostly play rock and (some) electronica.
Thanks for all this excellent info!
someone either here or on the WAD forum actually either designed the thing, or built a goodly few of them for a while - I can't bloody remember.
Pay attention at the back there!
Bob, the arm board you have is cut for Linn arms, and will not fit Rega or SME pattern arms. It's not hard to make a replacement board, but if you're thinking of using the Jelco, that has the Linn pattern mount and will drop straight on without modification. It would also be an excellent match for the Denon (far better than any Linn arm), so I'd probably go for that in your position.
With the A60 and the HB2s you'll have a nice well balanced system. It's not ideal for heavy metal at mind bending levels, but for old prog rockers like me it would extract the atmosphere beautifully. Does your A60 have a moving coil preamp fitted? You'll need one for the Denon. If not I may be able to help you with that. One thing to bear in mind, your A60 will be at least 30 years old by now and would benefit from a good service, including replacing the reservoir capacitors.
bob i may have a board i made for my heybrook when i bought it,let me know if you'd like it,it will need staining black or painted though as its plywood.
Argh you're right, there's no moving coil preamp. What can I do about that?
Is there anyone you would recommend to service the A60?
Jamie, thanks for the offer that would be great. I'll PM you.
Thanks again all!
Do you know the serial number of your A60? I have an A&R MC60 moving coil module and the associated cartridge loading module which can be fitted to any A60 after s/no 13250 knocking around somewhere. I'd be happy to come to a suitable arrangement. Dead easy to fit, just unplug a jumper inside thevA60 and plug in the module.
Living a I do in Darkest Devon I'm not sure who to recommend for servicing. The only bloke I know and trust in the south-east is John Caswell in Wokingham. A quick google search will find his contact details.
Serial is 12729.
From the manual it seems I need an A&R HA10. Turning into an expensive hobby already :)
Thanks for John's name.
HA10s are few and far between, and whilst perfectly adequate, there are plenty of other options. For example, a nice little Lentek sold on eBay a couple of weeks ago for about £60 which would have been ideal. Put a wanted on the forum and see if anyone has something suitable.
Going back to the Jelco on eBay, I noticed that the seller is selling the arm lead separately. The one he's selling will be no good for the TT2 as it is a vertical entry type. You'll need one with a right angle plug which brings the lead in horizontally.
Mikeandvan
12-01-2017, 11:32
Going back to the Jelco on eBay, I noticed that the seller is selling the arm lead separately. The one he's selling will be no good for the TT2 as it is a vertical entry type. You'll need one with a right angle plug which brings the lead in horizontally.
Hi Shane, curious what you said about tonearm cable, I use an Origin Live silver tonearm on my TT2 (later model than the OPs), it has the 'vertical entry' tonearm cable you mention above, as my cart broke a few months ago I don't think I've actually used it yet, also previously there was a dealer fitted RB300 on the TT2 which was fine, I don't see the difference between the RB300 and a tonearm cable of vertical entry type. Could you explain please? I also use a Jelco 750D on my 1210, where the tonearm cable looks like it is to the side of the plug rather than coming out directly underneath. Added a couple of pics. Thanks, Mike.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/145505522@N02/31422660734/in/dateposted-public/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/145505522@N02/32264078685/in/dateposted-public/
The armlead in question is a fairly hefty Van Damme item which doesn't look all that flexible, although I may be being unfair on it. It would probably work ok, but clearance to the bottom board could be a bit tight and if Bob's a complete novice to setting up tts, a horizontal lead would probably be easier to set up. This is the lead in question: http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/Van-Damme-Tonearm-Cable-/122303448003?hash=item1c79da83c3%3Ag%3AogUAAOSwa%7 EBYcnWL&_trkparms=pageci%253Ac241a7ea-d8bd-11e6-9ca5-74dbd1800a2d%257Cparentrq%253A9286b9f01590a2a1a1ed cd94ffc0ae44%257Ciid%253A2
i notice that the arm has now been sold. I wonder if Bob bought it?
Mikeandvan
12-01-2017, 13:25
The armlead in question is a fairly hefty Van Damme item which doesn't look all that flexible, although I may be being unfair on it. It would probably work ok, but clearance to the bottom board could be a bit tight and if Bob's a complete novice to setting up tts, a horizontal lead would probably be easier to set up. This is the lead in question: http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/Van-Damme-Tonearm-Cable-/122303448003?hash=item1c79da83c3%3Ag%3AogUAAOSwa%7 EBYcnWL&_trkparms=pageci%253Ac241a7ea-d8bd-11e6-9ca5-74dbd1800a2d%257Cparentrq%253A9286b9f01590a2a1a1ed cd94ffc0ae44%257Ciid%253A2
i notice that the arm has now been sold. I wonder if Bob bought it?
On my TT2 there is a small plastic bracket which the RB300 cable was attached to the wooden body, not sure if my current cable is gonna be too big for this or not, it is pretty hefty too. Didn't realise the importance of these minor adjustments to set up.
Do you have a copy of the manual? It's all explained in there. You can download a PDF here, but you'll need ho register for the Vinyl Engine forum, which isn't a bad idea anyway.
https://www.vinylengine.com/library/heybrook/tt2.shtml
if you look at this, the cable should run forward to the P-clip on the chassis, then back to the clip on the plinth. This ensures that the flexing part of the cable is more or less straight. P-clips should be as tight as possible. If you don't have the P-clips, I think they're still available from RS. The bolts securing them are bog standard M4x20 socket/head cap screws with washers.
http://www.thepippin.plus.com/TT2/15%20under%20armboard%202.jpg
Mikeandvan
12-01-2017, 15:32
Thanks Shane, there are 2 p clips, there, on my TT2 there is one, does the cable need to go through both? Sorry if this sounds dense.
Yes, forward from the arm to the clip on the chassis, then back to the clip on the back of the plinth. The manual tells all, with diagrams!
Mikeandvan
12-01-2017, 19:29
Yes, forward from the arm to the clip on the chassis, then back to the clip on the back of the plinth. The manual tells all, with diagrams!
I think I have a manual somewhere, but its forums like these that jog me into action, thanks a lot. I need to get my Ortofon rondo red fixed, looking forward to trying it with the new arm, the OL silver.
I missed out on the arm, someone beat me to it.
The tonearm search continues!
Pity! Don't limit your search to Linn- mount arms. Making a new arm board is simply a matter of cuttting two bits of 9mm ply, drilling a few holes, glueing them together and painting it black. I've got all the dimensions somewhere.
Any luck with an arm yet, Bob?
Developer_dave
07-03-2017, 11:19
Not wishing to hijack but I have a similar question on my TT2 which I am in the process of rediscovering (it is a lovely turntable). On the first picture in the thread, the bearing well is off centre. Mine is also off centre and not sure if this makes a difference or not - presumably it changes the belt distance? When I centre the well manually, after I play a record and check it reverts to being close to the motor pulley as though the tension in the belt is pulling it over? I have taken the baseboard off and the springs were not in line with the red marks, they are now (although one had one red mark on the spring and 2 on the turntable) and the plinth and platter are level spinning about 3-4mm above the platter and the armboard is also level. One thing I was not sure about on the springs is how many turns to put on the bolts when initially compressing the springs, I guess they are down the bolt about 1 cm before turning back over and tweaking the levels. The platter bounces nicely, about 10 seconds when tested and with no twisting. The only lateral movement is when starting up the turntable for a second or so - maybe this is causing the chasis to move in the plinth? Any suggestions most welcome!!
Firstly, to state the obvious, if the bearing is not in the centre of the hole that means that the whole bearing/chassis/armboard assembly is out of position, as this is a rigid assembly. The next obvious thing to state is that if you can see that the bearing isn't in the middle of the hole, then you haven't got the platter on, and two kilos of aluminium aren't compressing the springs into their normal operating position, so nothing's going to be in the right place, and the position of the chassis without the platter on is not important. What is important is what happens when the deck is fully assembled on a level surface. If the armboard is level with the edge of the plinth and sitting centrally in its opening, then everything is where it should be, and if you then get a good pistonic bounce with no rock or rotation, you've cracked it.
There are three factors that affect the way the chassis sits on its suspension, assuming that the springs and their rubber seats are in good condition. They are 1) belt tension, 2) spring position and 3) arm cable dressing. It's unlikely that the belt will have stretched much. It's quite a stiff belt under very little tension. Howeve, I have come across replacement belts that were the wrong length. That cocks things up completely, but assuming your belt is original, it's unlikely to cause any problems. The springs also are quite lightly loaded and are unlikely to have deteriorated, but their position is important. If you compress a coil spring it tends to lean over, and the red marks are positioned to take account of this. I'm at a bit of a disadvantage here because I cannot for the life of me remember why one spring on the alloy chassis had two marks, but it doesn't take too long to try that spring in both positions. By far the most like cause of problems is the arm lead. I don't know what arm you have but if it has thick inflexible leads (like most Linn arms for example) you will need to follow the setup instructions carefully. If yo don't have them you can download a copy from Vinyl Asylum. Good luck!
Developer_dave
07-03-2017, 16:51
Thanks Shane that is very informative. I will look again at the marks on the spring. It was late last night so I may have missed the second mark. The arm is a Linn basik plus. It only has one P clip and the cable is looped with a twisted cable tie/wire. It was set up like his by Creative Audio in Shrewsbury a long time ago... I will see if I can get a replacement p-clip because the manual shows 2, and dress it as per the manual although it does not appear to foul the arm board/plinth.
Other than that it bounces nicely is level and sounds wonderful, so I am not overly concerned and like you say once the platter is on it may we'll move back towards the middle anyway, Cant believe I didn't check that!!
If it ain't broke, don't fix it! Although it contradicts the manual, there are many ways of setting up a TT2, or any other turntable. Before he set up Creative Audio, Dave Poole was the Heybrook rep (and a thoroughly good bloke) for the first three years of the TT2's life. He's probably worked out his own way of setting them up, so if it's working ok and bouncing nicely I'd leave it alone, sit back and enjoy the music.
Going back to your original post by the way, a bit of lateral movement as the platter spins up on switch-on is normal.
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