Synology NAS/Apple TV2/Beresford Bushmaster 2

[Duffy]

Morning!

please be gentle with me here as I'm occasionally a bit 'hard of thinking' on these things!

I've formed a cunning plan to drag my system into the 21st Century using the above kit.

I've a Synology DS415+ that I keep all of my AV files along with a backup of my normal Itunes directory (which resides in my PC), I use Plex to access this normally and the DNLA side of it is brilliant.

I have an Apple TV 2, I'm quite happy doing the whole Airplay thing into it and my intention is now to use the optical output from this, into the Beresford and then into my Anthem MRX310 which goes into my Linn Espekts/Ekwal/Sekrit set up.

Are there any obvious boo boo's to avoid, any recommendations on streaming rates/formats etc etc or alternatives that I should be doing?

Maximum sound quality is my only objective!

Thanks

:)

[AlfaGTV]

Hi Duffy
I would personally avoid the Apple TV as it presents the audio stream as an 48khz sample rate digital signal to the DAC. I am pretty sure that the audiostream is also delivered as an AAC-compressed stream rather than the losslessly compressed ALAC when the endpoint is an Airport Express.

And while the Airplay method works beautifully, you wont be able to send DLNA/UPnP streams from the NAS to the Airport thingy.

If you would like both options, i'd recommend trying a Raspberry Pi with something like Hifiberry Digi+ I2S output.
Load it up with a fresh image of moOde (or Rune or Volumio etc) and you will have a media bridge which will sound even better than any Airplay based endpoint, even if the differences wont flip your world upside down!

[Light Dependant Resistor]

Morning!

please be gentle with me here as I'm occasionally a bit 'hard of thinking' on these things!

I've formed a cunning plan to drag my system into the 21st Century using the above kit.

I've a Synology DS415+ that I keep all of my AV files along with a backup of my normal Itunes directory (which resides in my PC), I use Plex to access this normally and the DNLA side of it is brilliant.

I have an Apple TV 2, I'm quite happy doing the whole Airplay thing into it and my intention is now to use the optical output from this, into the Beresford and then into my Anthem MRX310 which goes into my Linn Espekts/Ekwal/Sekrit set up.

Are there any obvious boo boo's to avoid, any recommendations on streaming rates/formats etc etc or alternatives that I should be doing?

Maximum sound quality is my only objective! :)

Thanks

Hi Derek
Try not to do more than one digital connection from one piece of equipment to the next
You may need to carefully check that you can output a digital signal if using two such pieces of
equipment, as you may run across what is called serial copy protection.

There are ways ( but very expensive ) around this like using a DBX Quantum that has ability to
turn serial copy off, and add some much needed audio benefits as well. You may need to assess a few
mastering processors, as this is where the tools ( not seen in usual commercial equipment ) for making
digital behave really are.

My advice would be to also study the library section in the forum, and ask questions in the DIY section
to get a good understanding of electronics. I quote Roland Moreno inventor of the
smart card " Digital is easy... Analog .. that's professional "

Cheers / Chris

[Duffy]

Thanks for the advice guys.

Does the airport express have a good sound quality?

The Apple TV2 is already there hence it seemed a sensible shout to give it a go, however I'm not losing anything by not using it.

Would a SONOS or similar be a good purchase?

Regards

[Light Dependant Resistor]

Hi Derek
Try not to get stuck in proprietary file types, that only Apple for instance offer
Study all the music available operating systems that have Flac here
http://distrowatch.com, and read every word here: https://xiph.org/flac/

I would be asking for instance will Airport Express which is a WiFi piece of hardware
will it, or is it even capable of playing Flac files ? Probably not because it is Apple
and not free or open source. Yes the world of music files is heavily political, but
it does not have to be if you choose not to pander or get sucked in / locked in to proprietary systems

Generally Flac and Wav - that uses a lot more file space, are at the top of the tree
as regards music file types. Almost everything other than them is a concession to
sound quality. Appears Sonos may do Flac but read everything including reviews.
Linn are heavily supporting Flac, and as you have some of their gear already, why not
send them an email asking about their Flac enabled gear.
Cheers / Chris

[Duffy]

Hi Chris

I hear what you are saying but due to family politics I'm stuck with a large Itunes media folder, which is regularly accessed by all of us.

The alternative would be to create a seperate folder with a different file type which would allow me best sound quality, however there's the the whole spur of the moment "I want to listen to this now!" occasion that having the music accessible either by DS Audio or straight from Itunes caters for.

Ideally I'd like a setup that can cater for both of these scenarios.

I'll read your links with interest and hopefully that will push my thinking along.

These scenarios are new territory for me I'm afraid

:)

[Light Dependant Resistor]

Hi Chris

I hear what you are saying but due to family politics I'm stuck with a large Itunes media folder, which is regularly accessed by all of us.

The alternative would be to create a seperate folder with a different file type which would allow me best sound quality, however there's the the whole spur of the moment "I want to listen to this now!" occasion that having the music accessible either by DS Audio or straight from Itunes caters for.

Ideally I'd like a setup that can cater for both of these scenarios.

I'll read your links with interest and hopefully that will push my thinking along.

These scenarios are new territory for me I'm afraid

:)

Hi Derek
A portable hard drive then with Flac files is the way to go. I was just posting when you replied, so
see what Linn offer - at least you won't be locked in to one file type or hardware type.
And they are a great firm with solid history in providing hi fi,

As example I have two Mac G5's downstairs both with power supply issues, they serve now as speaker stands
where they serve that purpose really well. :D
But generally were a pain to use, being a proprietary operating system. I did manage to get Linux Mint on them
momentarily- just as an example of boat anchors that can occur. For me I will never use proprietary operating systems again.

[Werner Berghofer]

Mike,

I am pretty sure that the audiostream is also delivered as an AAC-compressed stream rather than the losslessly compressed ALAC when the endpoint is an Airport Express.
the Apple Airplay protocol uses exclusively ALAC (Apple Lossless Audio Codec) for audio streaming, regardless what kind of device is used as endpoint. May I ask why you’re “pretty sure” that compressed AAC is used instead?

[…] no matter what format your music is in, it gets converted by OS X – not by iTunes – to Apple Lossless, to ensure the highest quality. So lossless files will be streamed as lossless, as will AAC or MP3 files.

Source (among others): How Apple’s AirPlay Streams Audio | Kirkville (http://www.mcelhearn.com/how-apples-airplay-streams-audio/)

When you establish a connection between an AirPlay source and AirPlay speakers, the encoding for the transmission is basically the same as the system used to encode Apple Lossless. The stream is capable of supporting a 44.1kHz (lossless audio) sampling rate. This means that AirPlay is capable of supporting a CD quality signal as well as compressed material.

Source: Airplay | Cambridge Audio (http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/de/blog/airplay)

Werner.

[AlfaGTV]

Hi Werner, nice to hear from you!
I base my musing on some white papers from Apple that have become unobtainable since a couple of years. That, and Apples great sense of how to make things simply work! ;)
But, seriously, an Airport Express demands an audio stream in 16/44.1 Apple Lossless, thats a bandwidth of about 700kbps.
To deliver 6channel audio in this bandwidht simultaneously with video would demand too great a bandwidth for reliability... (This is my assumption thoughh!)

And Derek, an Airport Express sounds notably better than an Apple TV when streaming CD format audio. If its the resampling or AAC compression i cant say.
The Apple Airplay audio protocol works absolutely best when wired though, either with an ATV or AE!

Edit:
I also sometimes use AirServer on on of my MacMinis for sending Airplay streams to it, and the outputting through a nice DAC.
They have recently added a feature called AirServer EX, which is an AirportExpress emulator:
http://support.airserver.com/customer/portal/articles/1465561-add-a-lossless-quality-audio-receiver

[Werner Berghofer]

Mike,

But, seriously, an Airport Express demands an audio stream in 16/44.1 Apple Lossless, thats a bandwidth of about 700kbps. To deliver 6channel audio in this bandwidht simultaneously with video would demand too great a bandwidth for reliability... (This is my assumption thoughh!)
your assumption sounds quite plausible, but I think we’re talking about straight two channel stereo here. I’m not sure if a Beresford Bushmaster 2 DAC as used by Duffy/Derek is able to properly handle six channel digital audio surround.

I agree with you that Airplay audio works best when used via wired Ethernet instead of WiFi, which makes the name “Airplay” a little questionable and bizarre, doesn’t it? ;-)

Werner.

[Duffy]

Mike,

your assumption sounds quite plausible, but I think we’re talking about straight two channel stereo here. I’m not sure if a Beresford Bushmaster 2 DAC as used by Duffy/Derek is able to properly handle six channel digital audio surround.

I agree with you that Airplay audio works best when used via wired Ethernet instead of WiFi, which makes the name “Airplay” a little questionable and bizarre, doesn’t it? ;-)

Werner.

Yes, sorry should have made that clear, my main demand is that it's great at playing old skool stereo music.

Anything 5.1 will be coming from my blue ray straight into the Anthem.

:)

[AlfaGTV]

I actually dont think Airplay cares what content is streamed, have a look at this page:
http://support.airserver.com/customer/portal/articles/1465561-add-a-lossless-quality-audio-receiver
Atb Mike

[Werner Berghofer]

Derek,

Yes, sorry should have made that clear, my main demand is that it's great at playing old skool stereo music.
then you don’t have to worry about Airplay unintentionally deteriorating the audio quality, as long as your audio files do not exceed the the Redbook specifications.

Werner.

[Werner Berghofer]

Mike,

I actually dont think Airplay cares what content is streamed, have a look at this page:
http://support.airserver.com/customer/portal/articles/1465561-add-a-lossless-quality-audio-receiver
hm, if I have a look at the page you linked, I *do* have the impression that Airplay actually distinguishes between stereo audio and the multi-channel audio part of digital video. However, I have no personal experience with streaming anything else but plain vanilla two channel stereo music to Airport Express destinations.

Werner.

[Duffy]

Mike,

hm, if I have a look at the page you linked, I *do* have the impression that Airplay actually distinguishes between stereo audio and the multi-channel audio part of digital video. However, I have no personal experience with streaming anything else but plain vanilla two channel stereo music to Airport Express destinations.

Werner.


Airport Express sound like a sensible shout then, anything apple gets past 'er indoors without any great issue

Thank you

:)

[AlfaGTV]

Mike,

hm, if I have a look at the page you linked, I *do* have the impression that Airplay actually distinguishes between stereo audio and the multi-channel audio part of digital video. However, I have no personal experience with streaming anything else but plain vanilla two channel stereo music to Airport Express destinations.

Werner.

Ahem.. Yes, i was being extremely unclear! :)
My text referred to the audio stream being sent to an AppleTV, which i believe will AAC-compress whatever you are sending, whether it is 5.1 DD or 2 channel stereo.

If you, on the other hand, direct a stream to an Airport Express i believe it will be converted into Apple Lossless @ 16bit/44.1khz.

Based on the now extinct White Paper from Apple and other statements from various sources including this one:

Streaming to the audio-only part of AirServer also forces the iOS device to send audio in lossless quality as opposed to AAC compressed audio.

But, like you guys, i dont have any experience with streaming multi channel audio through either of my Apple devices.
(Well, iTunesMovies, Netflix and other apps on the AppleTV of course sends Dolby Digital over both HDMI and Toslink..)