WTD: Your best MM cart /suggestions for £ 100'ish [Archive]

Idlewithnodrive

31-12-2016, 11:10

Hello chaps,your help needed

As experts in the obscure, esoteric, giant beating cart arena, this should be right up your street :)

I've been looking for quite a while now for a DL-160 cart, with no joy, so maybe time to consider something else.

So, I'm looking for a DL-160 type MM cart for about £ 100 or so.

What I like about the DL-160 -

Tracks well
Very even handed, not harsh / bright
More 'musical' than 'hi-fi' but still fairly detailed
Kind to second hand LP's

So has anybody got or happy to suggest anything suitable ? It's getting a bit critical now, as I recently wrecked my main DL-160 and am now using my mid mileage spare.

If you guys can't suggest something special for the money, nobody can :D

Bigman80

31-12-2016, 11:13

If you can stretch to a Goldring 2100 (just over £100) you won't be disappointed. It's a phenomenal cartridge and the best MM I've heard. Also there as a technics mm on here recently. I believe that will be tough to beat.

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walpurgis

31-12-2016, 11:20

If you like the DL-160 (as I do), you would probably enjoy a vintage Grado. They have a simliar degree of 'musicality' and are a little easier to come by.

I have a Grado F1+ that I use now and then. It's a lovely sounding cartridge.

gerlando

31-12-2016, 11:34

Denon DL110;
Nagaoka MP-110.

Geoff101

31-12-2016, 11:37

Hi Mike,
Was it you that I previously offered a couple from my collection to?

Idlewithnodrive

31-12-2016, 12:00

Hi Geoff,

No, that was speakers and at the time I couldn't get over to pick them up, due to silly work commitments :(

Geoff101

31-12-2016, 12:27

OK - in that case I have the following:

Arcam (A&R) P77 Mg - this is effectively new having played only a few sides on the original stylus - £100.

I've got a box full of old Grados without stylus. They have various markings but I think are basically all the same and equivalent to the current entry level Prestige. I don't think these are worth a lot.

Shure M44-7, M55E, M75ED, M91ED, M95ED - various Stylus, some original NOS, some used, some new aftermarket.

Ortofon VMS20 - used stylus which I need to clean and check.

AT91, AT105 - both used stylus but cleaned up and look ok under 100x

Technics EPC-290C - new aftermarket stylus.

mad-moon

31-12-2016, 12:50

+1...I'm using a Grado prestige series, on one of my shells......very nice cart...

If you like the DL-160 (as I do), you would probably enjoy a vintage Grado. They have a simliar degree of 'musicality' and are a little easier to come by.

I have a Grado F1+ that I use now and then. It's a lovely sounding cartridge.

Idlewithnodrive

31-12-2016, 13:09

Thanks for that Geoff.

I must admit to not being a great Shure fan; I've not owned one that I really like yet and they are too confusing / too many derivatives.

struth

31-12-2016, 13:17

M55 with an original stylus is pretty good

Idlewithnodrive

31-12-2016, 13:33

Anybody know anything about ADC carts ?

Anything decent in budget'ish ?

Geoff101

31-12-2016, 14:07

I've also got an ADC phase series IV spare but will need to check the stylus on that.

Wakefield Turntables

31-12-2016, 14:07

SHURE M55E+JICO basic replacement stylus and Snakewood body. All can be had for <£100 is you shop around. You'll need to spend £500 to beat this setup.

walpurgis

31-12-2016, 15:12

The best ADC cartridges can sound superb. Good examples with original styli are becoming harder to find though, but worth tracking down.

I have owned several XLM III cartridges and they sound extremely good. Currently, I have two ADC 10E Mk.II and two ADC 10E Mk.IV, plus a 550XE. These are 'Classic' models and have as good or better sound as the XLM series. The rare ZLM is also very sought after, I've not tried that one.

The sound quality is as good or better than many MC cartridges.

Don't entertain the 'holy grail' 25, 26, 27 models unless you have an ultra lightweight tonearm. Their compliance is mega high and they simply will not function in the average arm.

narabdela

31-12-2016, 15:48

Don't entertain the 'holy grail' 25, 26, 27 models unless you have an ultra lightweight tonearm. Their compliance is mega high and they simply will not function in the average arm.

Neither will the ZLM. It really needed to be used in the fixed headshell SME II improved back in the day.

Idlewithnodrive

31-12-2016, 15:50

SHURE M55E+JICO basic replacement stylus and Snakewood body. All can be had for <£100 is you shop around. You'll need to spend £500 to beat this setup.

I like the sound of this; something a bit leftfield.

Idlewithnodrive

31-12-2016, 15:52

Idlewithnodrive

31-12-2016, 16:03

I've also got an ADC phase series IV spare but will need to check the stylus on that.

Can't find anything on the Series IV Geoff, how would it compare to a 10E ?

Thanks

no1livz4ever

31-12-2016, 16:05

Nagaoka MP110

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walpurgis

31-12-2016, 16:07

So, the ADC 10E's are worth looking out for too.

The 10E Mk.IV is my favourite.

I've used one alongside a Decca London Blue and a Denon DL-103R and in some ways, the ADC bettered them.

dantheman91

31-12-2016, 16:12

Ortofon OM Super 10....

Currently Using One....Very good Value for Money ;)

Geoff101

31-12-2016, 16:20

Can't find anything on the Series IV Geoff, how would it compare to a 10E ?

Thanks

The phase series were one of the later models. I don't know if they came after the xlm or at the same time.
The series IV was the top model of these and had the same spec tip as the XLM III.
One benefit of this model is that you can still get NOS stylus from LP Gear in the states. I use one on my XLM III.

I've just had this one under the microscope and it looks very good indeed. It came to me used but the cantilever and tip are extremely clean suggesting it's had little use. No wear or damage that I can see.

The VMS20 stylus doesn't look great by the way so I wouldn't bother with that.

Geoff101

31-12-2016, 16:22

Neither will the ZLM. It really needed to be used in the fixed headshell SME II improved back in the day.

Just to briefly hijack this: Would these work in:

SME III
ADC LMF-2

walpurgis

31-12-2016, 16:32

The VMS20 stylus doesn't look great by the way so I wouldn't bother with that.

I've found the Ortofon M series, VMS series and FF series a bit lacking in weight and body in comparison to the ADCs, which to me at least have a presentation with greater authority.

Idlewithnodrive

31-12-2016, 16:36

The phase series were one of the later models. I don't know if they came after the xlm or at the same time.
The series IV was the top model of these and had the same spec tip as the XLM III.
One benefit of this model is that you can still get NOS stylus from LP Gear in the states. I use one on my XLM III.

I've just had this one under the microscope and it looks very good indeed. It came to me used but the cantilever and tip are extremely clean suggesting it's had little use. No wear or damage that I can see.

The VMS20 stylus doesn't look great by the way so I wouldn't bother with that.

Thanks Geoff. Would the Series IV work in an RB250 arm ?

Idlewithnodrive

31-12-2016, 16:41

Ortofon OM Super 10....

Currently Using One....Very good Value for Money ;)

Your Empire still for sale Dan ?

Geoff101

31-12-2016, 17:47

Thanks Geoff. Would the Series IV work in an RB250 arm ?

It tracks at 1.2g and is fairly high compliance. I would have thought that means a Rega arm might be a bit heavy for it but would welcome expert opinion.

Idlewithnodrive

31-12-2016, 18:26

It tracks at 1.2g and is fairly high compliance. I would have thought that means a Rega arm might be a bit heavy for it but would welcome expert opinion.

So would I :)

Arkless Electronics

31-12-2016, 18:50

+1...I'm using a Grado prestige series, on one of my shells......very nice cart...

and for an opposite view... I briefly tried a Prestige Black many years ago. It lasted about half an hour before I removed it for resale... one of the worst cartridges I've ever heard..... Lets just say there was no possibility of anything sounding harsh :lol:

Vintage Grado's are MUCH better.

walpurgis

31-12-2016, 18:53

It tracks at 1.2g and is fairly high compliance. I would have thought that means a Rega arm might be a bit heavy for it but would welcome expert opinion.

Strangely enough my ADC 10E Mk.IV worked OK in an RB300 at 1 gram.

(well, I say OK, but I didn't like the sound much. I just don't enjoy Rega arms. To me they dull the sound and it becomes more two dimensional)

Idlewithnodrive

31-12-2016, 19:11

Strangely enough my ADC 10E Mk.IV worked OK in an RB300 at 1 gram.

(well, I say OK, but I didn't like the sound much. I just don't enjoy Rega arms. To me they dull the sound and it becomes more two dimensional)

Strange that because, I believe that my systems biggest strength is it's ability to re-create a believable 3D soundstage with very good solid imaging within.

farflungstar

31-12-2016, 19:17

If you can find someone nice enough to sell you one at a good price how about Grado Reference Master wood bodied. Extraordinarily musical.
Adey

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Idlewithnodrive

31-12-2016, 19:33

If you can find someone nice enough to sell you one at a good price how about Grado Reference Master wood bodied. Extraordinarily musical.
Adey

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Never heard one but I've just done some reading up on that Adey and that seems like another very good suggestion :)

Thanks

walpurgis

31-12-2016, 19:34

Strange that because, I believe that my systems biggest strength is it's ability to re-create a believable 3D soundstage with very good solid imaging within.

It's a fact. For over thirty years I've used a Mission 774 as my regular arm and during this time I've tried Rega arms, upgraded and standard. If I use a Rega, I get accustomed to the sound, if not exactly satisfied. Then I switch back the the Mission 774 and the sound just opens right up. I've not found another arm that suits me better all round. I got rid of my Ittok 'cos it just didn't sound as good.

If it's 3D soundstage you want you should hear what my Mission does on my Toshiba SR-370 with a ZYX Yatra mounted. That's 3D!

Idlewithnodrive

31-12-2016, 19:40

J
It's a fact. For over thirty years I've used a Mission 774 as my regular arm and during this time I've tried Rega arms, upgraded and standard. If I use a Rega, I get accustomed to the sound, if not exactly satisfied. Then I switch back the the Mission 774 and the sound just opens right up. I've not found another arm that suits me better all round. I got rid of my Ittok 'cos it just didn't sound as good.

If it's 3D soundstage you want you should hear what my Mission does on my Toshiba SR-370 with a ZYX Yatra mounted. That's 3D!

Quite fancy trying and been actively looking for an SR-370 myself, but they don't come up very often :(

Bigman80

31-12-2016, 19:59

I bought a SR370 for the plinth recently. Motor was knackered but made my money back on the SME 3009 that came with it. They do come up but they seem to get snapped up quickly.

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walpurgis

31-12-2016, 20:01

J

Quite fancy trying and been actively looking for an SR-370 myself, but they don't come up very often :(

Well. You never know. You might get lucky.

I have two of them and three 774 arms. Could be I'll be having a 'thin down' before too long.

Idlewithnodrive

31-12-2016, 20:05

Well. You never know. You might get lucky.

I have two of them and three 774 arms. Could be I'll be having a 'thin down' before too long.

Well, if you do, I'd appreciate first refusal :)

Arkless Electronics

31-12-2016, 20:12

It's a fact. For over thirty years I've used a Mission 774 as my regular arm and during this time I've tried Rega arms, upgraded and standard. If I use a Rega, I get accustomed to the sound, if not exactly satisfied. Then I switch back the the Mission 774 and the sound just opens right up. I've not found another arm that suits me better all round. I got rid of my Ittok 'cos it just didn't sound as good.

If it's 3D soundstage you want you should hear what my Mission does on my Toshiba SR-370 with a ZYX Yatra mounted. That's 3D!

Shush... They're total shite these arms :D

Bigman80

31-12-2016, 20:15

The 774 seem to pop up on USA eBay, problem is that Geoff owns them all in the UK lol

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Bigman80

31-12-2016, 20:18

Bigman80

31-12-2016, 20:18

Bit over the odds but you'd make a few Bob back of the spare TT

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walpurgis

31-12-2016, 20:23

The 774 seem to pop up on USA eBay, problem is that Geoff owns them all in the UK lol

Happy to swap one for an Aleph 3 amp. :eek:

farflungstar

31-12-2016, 20:25

I've always wondered what the fuss was about with the mission arm - I never got to hear one back in the day. Am I missing something?
Adey

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walpurgis

31-12-2016, 20:29

I've always wondered what the fuss was about with the mission arm - I never got to hear one back in the day. Am I missing something?
Adey

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It just sounds great. Sure it's not the best arm in the world. What is? But nothing I've ever used comes close for the money. It's really very musical and open sounding. It is also unusual in the fact it will work with any normal cartridge, high or low compliance.

dantheman91

31-12-2016, 20:32

Your Empire still for sale Dan ?

Hi Mike

Yes It is still for sale.....

Thanks
Dan

Bigman80

31-12-2016, 20:38

I've always wondered what the fuss was about with the mission arm - I never got to hear one back in the day. Am I missing something?
Adey

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I've had -

RB250 (cardas rewire)
RB300 (modded, rewired, spring removed)
Sony Pu (?) carbon fibre tonearm (Litz)
SME 3009 S2 unimproved

The Mission is easily the best. Not even close.

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Idlewithnodrive

31-12-2016, 21:40

Hi Mike

Yes It is still for sale.....

Thanks
Dan

Cheers Dan.

Can't find any info on the 2000X, only the highly rated 2000E's. Anybody know or used the X ?

Thanks

walpurgis

31-12-2016, 21:54

Cheers Dan.

Can't find any info on the 2000X, only the highly rated 2000E's. Anybody know or used the X ?

Thanks

I had a couple of 2000E III Empires. They were pleasant, but I didn't find them remarkable.

farflungstar

31-12-2016, 22:17

I too had the 2000E III. I then bought a Grace F9 thinking it would better it - it didn't. The Grace was sold within a few days - the empire a month or so later when a Grado Reference Master came into the house.

Adey

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Idlewithnodrive

31-12-2016, 22:29

OK, so, sort of narrowing it down to an ADC10E, Empire 2000E or SHURE M55E+JICO stylus with Snakewood body.

Exactly the sort of info / answer I was hoping for. Now, anybody got any of these spare ? :D

Geoff101

01-01-2017, 08:33

I've got an M55E. It's got an original stylus on it but the cantilever is bent so needs replacing. Cartridge is in excellent condition.
£30 plus delivery.

Edit: If you don't want it, please let me know as another member does.

Gromit

01-01-2017, 10:23

Mike - if you can wait a week or so I may have my low-mileage (2 months old) DL110 for sale. Now I've got a Dynavector P75 am hopefully moving on to a low output MC.

Bigman80

01-01-2017, 13:01

There a grado reference in the private exhibitions part.

Idlewithnodrive

01-01-2017, 13:07

https://www.gumtree.com/p/record-players-turntables/thorens-td-160-b-mk2-with-mission-original-774-tonearm-and-new-at95e-cartridge.-excellent-condition./1204150940

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A long way away, an awful lot of effort, a deck to try and sell on and still no cartridge:)

Bigman80

01-01-2017, 13:12

A long way away, an awful lot of effort, a deck to try and sell on and still no cartridge:)
Worth it though

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Idlewithnodrive

01-01-2017, 13:28

There a grado reference in the private exhibitions part.

Thanks for pointing that out Oliver.

Shame about the 'modification', otherwise would definitely have been worth considering.

Idlewithnodrive

01-01-2017, 13:30