A new tweak.

[Jimbo]

I have not really done much with my system this year other than play with alternative cartridges but last night I did a small tweak to my system which was as a result of having to raise my speakers slightly.

I have just had a new sofa which in itself changed the acoustic characteristics of my room slightly but the biggest effect was to raise my lug holes slightly higher than they were before and thus the ideal listening level with the tweeters in my speakers was compromised. I did not realise how key this aspect was to perceiving a number of elements my speakers did including detail, soundstage and positioning of instruments and vocals.

In order to bring my speakers tweeters up to a level with my ears I decided therefore to use some special laminate material which I use under my turntable. This stuff is very dense and heavy, a bit like granite in weight but in actual fact it is made by laminating a number of materials together to form a very hard substance which is used throughout the construction industry for partitioning. It works fabulously under my turntable but I had never tried it under speakers. I had two ideal pieces which were pre cut to size that would do the job so I put the speaker plus stands which are spiked normally through my carpet into concrete onto them.

This immediately and noticeably not only bought the tweeters up to perfect listening position but also tightened up the whole imaging of the speakers. Quite amazing really as I had not expected this aspect, I just though I would get the same sound as I had before but this material worked much better than spiking the stands into concrete. Definition and precision of instruments and vocals in particular were improved to a point where some lyrics I had not been aware of came out of the mix with much greater coherence.

Need to do some more listening but I feel it is definitely worth experimenting with not only with different speaker stands but the actually substrate they are standing on as it can have quite a marked influence how speakers perform. I know there is an obvious difference between wood suspended floors and concrete but I can now see that there is also quite a difference between lots of other materials on which speakers stand.

Definitely worth more investigation?

[farflungstar]

Spiked into concrete has never worked for me, unless the spikes are glued into pre drilled locators the speakers will move during excursion, thus smearing things. How are the new platforms 'grounded'? Spikes?

Adey

Sent from my Aquaris E4.5 using Tapatalk

[Jimbo]

Spiked into concrete has never worked for me, unless the spikes are glued into pre drilled locators the speakers will move during excursion, thus smearing things. How are the new platforms 'grounded'? Spikes?

Adey

Sent from my Aquaris E4.5 using Tapatalk

The new platforms are not spiked, just sitting on carpet.

[farflungstar]

If it was me I'd drill the concrete and screw the platform's into place. I'd then either spike the speakers into the platform's or use 3 dollops of blu- tac.

All good fun.
Adey

Sent from my Aquaris E4.5 using Tapatalk

[danilo]

A few years back it was a fairly common Bodge to mass weight the bottoms of one's Speaker boxes.
Usually floor standers, pouring in a couple of inches of:
Lead shot ( if Flush ),
Aquarium glass sand/gravel or even River Rock gravel if not.
Dunno if any still do this, but it was claimed as genuinely useful.

[farflungstar]

The problem with filling the bottom of an enclosure is you lose litres and hence change the low end response - this may partially account for the 'tighter' bass after filling. Unless the enclosures are very very heavy cone excursion will create a force on the enclosure and it will move, even subtle shifts can smear sound stage and blur bass. An enclosure must be rigid and unable to move if the driver is going to do its job well. IMO

Adey

Sent from my Aquaris E4.5 using Tapatalk

[Jimbo]

Stands used are heavy Steel filled half way with sand. I could drill and install spikes into the laminate material and then spike this into the concrete,however I feel the gains I have made already just standing the speakers on these blocks is good enough. They are very inert and have the same weight as slabs of slate or granite.

I believe this laminate material is the key as it somehow absorbs vibration and stops the speaker bouncing it back up through the spikes. The material I use is made into roller shelves and which are used to sound isolate equipment.

[brian2957]

Excellent James . I would leave well alone until upgraditis strikes again :D

Got a link to this stuff at all ?

[brian2957]

[QUOTE=brian2957;816416]Excellent James . I would leave well alone until upgraditis strikes again :D


Got a link to this stuff at all ?

[Jimbo]

Further experimentation with speaker isolation and vibration control resulted in the laminate material now sandwiched between stand and base of speaker.
http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k424/Spendorsp2/image_zpsbvipwur9.jpeg (http://s326.photobucket.com/user/Spendorsp2/media/image_zpsbvipwur9.jpeg.html)

This works much more effectively than standing the stand and speaker on the laminate. I have used a tiny bit of blu tack between laminate and stand but not between speaker and laminate.


http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k424/Spendorsp2/image_zpsk2gbtcf6.jpeg (http://s326.photobucket.com/user/Spendorsp2/media/image_zpsk2gbtcf6.jpeg.html)

Stands are half filled with sand and spiked through to concrete floor with 6mm spikes.

Immediately there was a large improvement in definition and stability to the sound. It was almost as if the speaker cabinets previously vibrated in an uncontrolled manner and blurred the image of the music as it were. Now I am getting more focus on vocals and instruments. Spacial definition especially deep into the mix is improved and extends further. It is as if the whole sonic picture has been stabilised and cleaned up. Very impressed and will be keeping this tweek in situ permanently as it has had quite a profound effect.

Now here is the interesting bit. Over Christmas I was looking at one of my favourite sites Analogue Planet and Michael Fremer did a post on Wilson Audio speakers. He posted up a video tour of the Wilson factory including a chat with one of the Wilson techies and remarkably during the interview he had a piece of laminate material not too dissimilar to what I have used, slightly different construction but the same idea. They are looking and may well be using it in their speaker construction!?

[Jimbo]

Further experimentation with speaker isolation and vibration control resulted in the laminate material now sandwiched between stand and base of speaker.
http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k424/Spendorsp2/image_zpsbvipwur9.jpeg (http://s326.photobucket.com/user/Spendorsp2/media/image_zpsbvipwur9.jpeg.html)

This works much more effectively than standing the stand and speaker on the laminate. I have used a tiny bit of blu tack between laminate and stand but not between speaker and laminate.


http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k424/Spendorsp2/image_zpsk2gbtcf6.jpeg (http://s326.photobucket.com/user/Spendorsp2/media/image_zpsk2gbtcf6.jpeg.html)

Stands are half filled with sand and spiked through to concrete floor with 6mm spikes.

Immediately there was a large improvement in definition and stability to the sound. It was almost as if the speaker cabinets previously vibrated in an uncontrolled manner and blurred the image of the music as it were. Now I am getting more focus on vocals and instruments. Spacial definition especially deep into the mix is improved and extends further. It is as if the whole sonic picture has been stabilised and cleaned up. Very impressed and will be keeping this tweek in situ permanently as it has had quite a profound effect.

Now here is the interesting bit. Over Christmas I was looking at one of my favourite sites Analogue Planet and Michael Fremer did a post on Wilson Audio speakers. He posted up a video tour of the Wilson factory including a chat with one of the Wilson techies and remarkably during the interview he had a piece of laminate material not too dissimilar to what I have used, slightly different construction but the same idea. They are looking and may well be using it in their speaker construction!?

[Macca]

The problem with filling the bottom of an enclosure is you lose litres and hence change the low end response - this may partially account for the 'tighter' bass after filling. Unless the enclosures are very very heavy cone excursion will create a force on the enclosure and it will move, even subtle shifts can smear sound stage and blur bass. An enclosure must be rigid and unable to move if the driver is going to do its job well. IMO

Adey

Sent from my Aquaris E4.5 using Tapatalk

Mass loading the cabs will change the resonant frequency of the whole, this is more likely to be where the improvement lies. A drive unit moving doesn't generate enough force to actually move the speaker cabinet, unless it is made of cardboard or something.

[killie99]

What's the name of the laminate you're using?

[Jimbo]

What's the name of the laminate you're using?

I don't know as I got it from a friend. I will enquirer a let you know however I must warn you it is not easy to cut. I needed to have mine cut on a table saw with a 2kw motor!

[farflungstar]

The reason speakers are rigidly coupled to stands or floors is precisely to stop them from moving due to excursion - otherwise we could have them suspended by cables from the ceiling - something I tried about 20 years ago and was surprised by the movement generated. Lesson learnt.
Adey

Sent from my Aquaris E4.5 using Tapatalk

[killie99]

I don't know as I got it from a friend. I will enquirer a let you know however I must warn you it is not easy to cut. I needed to have mine cut on a table saw with a 2kw motor!
Sounds like it's panzerholz although from your pic it doesn't look like it

[Macca]

The reason speakers are rigidly coupled to stands or floors is precisely to stop them from moving due to excursion - otherwise we could have them suspended by cables from the ceiling - something I tried about 20 years ago and was surprised by the movement generated. Lesson learnt.
Adey

Sent from my Aquaris E4.5 using Tapatalk

I can see how that would happen if the speakers were not rigidly suspended. But sat on a floor or stand the friction and inertia will be way too much for drive unit excursion to actually make them move. Vibrate, maybe, but no amount of coupling to a floor or stand will stop that and if the speaker is adequately built that shouldn't happen anyway.

[Firebottle]

Ahh ... that's what the pieces were for.

Glad it has made an improvement :D

[Jimbo]

Ahh ... that's what the pieces were for.

Glad it has made an improvement :D

As you heard on a massive scale and saw what this material was under I think you will have to agree there is some substance in me pursuing this materials ability and properties.:)

[Bourneendboy]

What's the name of the laminate you're using?

Looks like Compact Laminate to me, 16 or 20mm thick?