Profiting from forum sales

[Lawrence001]

Ive noticed one or two people who seem to consistently make a 30-50% (->100%!) markup on things sold on this and other forums. They buy them on ebay or other forums and move them on within weeks for a significant premium. They claim to be inveterate box swappers but they make a nice little earner from the forums.

This really winds me up as I think on the forums we should be sharing our good fortune for getting gear at a reasonable price if it doesn't work out for us. Don't get me wrong I've made money before but I sell them on ebay or gumtree as I don't see the same expectation of being a community on there.

I was wondering if I'm being overly sensitive and the classifieds are just a free market free for all,or if people agree with me on this?


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[Spectral Morn]

Ive noticed one or two people who seem to consistently make a 30-50% (->100%!) markup on things sold on this and other forums. They buy them on ebay or other forums and move them on within weeks for a significant premium. They claim to be inveterate box swappers but they make a nice little earner from the forums.

This really winds me up as I think on the forums we should be sharing our good fortune for getting gear at a reasonable price if it doesn't work out for us. Don't get me wrong I've made money before but I sell them on ebay or gumtree as I don't see the same expectation of being a community on there.

I was wondering if I'm being overly sensitive and the classifieds are just a free market free for all,or if people agree with me on this?


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Lawrence if you have evidence to prove that anyone on here is basically running a covert business, buying to sell not to keep and try, then not like and sell on then please forward the evidence to Marco or one of the mods. This evidence must include links to the Ebay auction, and the ads on here or elsewhere.

I would think that anyone found to be running a used HiFi business covertly will be asked to register as trade in order to sell here in future.

[Lawrence001]

I don't know if it's enough to justify that description. One or two items every month or two isn't really going to be a business proposition. It's more just the way they consistently make money on every item at the expense of other forum members, I'm trying to get a feel for if the majority think that's fair game or not in the spirit of the forum.


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[Spectral Morn]

I don't know if it's enough to justify that description. One or two items every month or two isn't really going to be a business proposition. It's more just the way they consistently make money on every item at the expense of other forum members, I'm trying to get a feel for if the majority think that's fair game or not in the spirit of the forum.


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That quantity every month would I feel start to slide it into being a business, maybe drip feeding stock into for sales ads on forums to avoid looking like trade. Who knows what stock they have built up in order to sell on via that model.

As I say any evidence regarding members doing that pass it on to Marco or a Mod and we will look at the evidence and assess if a trade status is required.

[Yomanze]

It certainly goes against the spirit of HiFI member sales, but there's always someone out there who's willing to throw ethics out of the window to make a quick buck.

[struth]

Its certainly not in the spirit or the aims of private exhibitions. Its for members to sell to each other there gear without fees in a gentlemanly manner. Obviously buying stuff cheap to sell here at a profit will be frowned on. Again, if its just the occasional bit thats different,... the usual markdown is about 25% or so as thats what you pay in fees elsewhere.

[Lawrence001]

Actually I did send a list of sales and ebay links to a mod about a year ago and was told they were aware so I guess it didn't qualify as a business and then it went a bit quiet for a while. I've just noticed it's picking up slightly again but not anything that qualifies as trade. If it grows I'll send an update to the mods.


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[Spectral Morn]

Actually I did send a list of sales and ebay links to a mod about a year ago and was told they were aware so I guess it didn't qualify as a business and then it went a bit quiet for a while. I've just noticed it's picking up slightly again but not anything that qualifies as trade. If it grows I'll send an update to the mods.


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Present the new evidence and refresh re the old and Marco and the Mods will have another look.

[walpurgis]

There are other things to consider.

Nobody is forced to pay the asking prices and if these prices are too high, items are less likely to sell.

Also, some folks do like to 'box swap' regularly as part of their enjoyment of what is after all, a hobby.

I think that profits are inevitable, but so are losses. I experience both on the modest amount of gear I move on.

[Audio Al]

I have noticed 2 suspects , I contacted Marco re one , Nothing done about it

[Wakefield Turntables]

Hmmm tricky one. I've sold and bought things from here. I've made money and lost money (usually the case). What happens when something becomes flavour of the month? The old law and supply and demand kicks in and prices go up. Garrard 301 decks and LS5/a speakers being good examples. I hate seeing new members suddenly advertising lots of kit for sale month in and month out (I have seen a few like this), agreed people can have large collections but sometimes it takes the wee wee.

[Macca]

I bought a couple of SL1200s on here a few years ago. I paid £200 each. They are now probably worth £300 each. If I were to sell one is it morally wrong for me to ask £300 and make £100 profit?

I don't personally think so. I probably wouldn't sell them for more than I paid but then I don't need the money. If I was short of cash then I probably would, so I wouldn't castigate anyone else for doing that either.

If someone is regularly doing this, i.e it is a consistent earner for them, we would expect them to pay for Trade status. As Geoff says, no-one is forced to buy anything, and most items sold here sell for less than market value. There is Radford amplifier that is being advertised at way below the market rate right now, for example, and no-one has bought it yet. So it cuts both ways.

[struth]

Dont think thats a good comparison. Were talking about buy and a few weeks later double the price. I mean jamie did right thing when he landed the cheap speakers. Found out a bit anout them and now is making a big profit on ebay. Didnt insult forum even though he didnt buy here it was a member who tipped him. Thats fine...hell were not commies ffs

[Haselsh1]

Ya see that's where I fall flat on my face because all of my hi-fi tit and tat I just give away to anyone prepared to cover the cost of postage. In some cases, people won't even pay the postage so it goes in the bin.

[Lawrence001]

Actually thinking about it I have no issue with selling them on the forums at a profit if you put a link to the original sale and say I've done really well on these but then I got them cheap. What drives me mad is long descriptions about how they are great but no longer fit in with the system/the other half has decided they're not the right style/it's time for a change etc but no mention that they were only bought a few weeks before for a fraction of the price. While carefully worded not to say they've been owned for years there is an implication that they've been in the seller's possession for some time. To me this smacks of dishonesty.


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[Macca]

Yes, there is no problem buying cheap here and selling on eBay or Gumtree for a profit. The other way around is a bit dodgy, ethically. This site could be run for profit but it isn't, because once you try to monetise something like this you ruin it.

If you want to make some money selling here, pay for a trade account and do it openly, and if you don't want to do that then go and get a proper job.

[Lawrence001]

This site could be run for profit but it isn't, because once you try to monetise something like this you ruin it.


X2 - look at the wam now.


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[walpurgis]

Big profits are there, intentionally or not. If I'd bought a couple of pairs of Tannoy Berkeleys ten years ago, I'd probably have laid out £500 or £600, they were cheap then. Now I'd likely get £2500 for them.

[karma67]

Dont think thats a good comparison. Were talking about buy and a few weeks later double the price. I mean jamie did right thing when he landed the cheap speakers. Found out a bit anout them and now is making a big profit on ebay. Didnt insult forum even though he didnt buy here it was a member who tipped him. Thats fine...hell were not commies ffs

They are not sold yet grant, turns out the guy who bought them lives in Northumberland, it clearly states collection only in my add and he's being a dick and wants to cancel the sale saying I didn't realise they were that big!

[Lodgesound]

I have 4 SL1210 MK 2 turntables brand new boxed up with zero hours on them - been sitting on them for 5 years now.

They were originally bought as spares for a DJ'ing operation but never ended up being used.

Will be interesting to see what happens to the value of these in another 5 years or so - will quite happily sit on them for that time.

[struth]

They are not sold yet grant, turns out the guy who bought them lives in Northumberland, it clearly states collection only in my add and he's being a dick and wants to cancel the sale saying I didn't realise they were that big!

Sure they will eventually go. Quite rare things, and worth keeping if you cannot get price you want.

[Bigman80]

I have bought and sold a few items on here and have not made any profit out of anyone when I've sold something. I have had a lot of advice and spent wisely and think I've always paid a fair price. What I like about the forum is the trust. I don't doubt anyone I buy from on here. There is no doubt in my mind it will be as described and will arrive. It would be a shame if someone created a doubt about that aspect

In relation to sales on eBay: are you taking the cost of the sale ie eBay fees and PayPal fees when you quote a 30-50% profit ?

If people are taking advantage of low sale prices on here and deliberately selling them on at a profit then that's a business.

The spirit of the forum should be honoured in my humble opinion.

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[Lawrence001]

It's things bought on ebay and sold on here for more, so no fees payable.


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[Bigman80]

It's things bought on ebay and sold on here for more, so no fees payable.


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Ah, i see. Yes I've re read it. I am currently struck down with man flu so you'll have to forgive me.

Still my sentiment on protecting the integrity of the forum is valid.

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[RichB]

Aye, I reckon there's a few on here picking up bargains then punting them on fleabay for a margin. I don't like it but if the seller here is happy to take the money offered and it shifts the kit then so be it.

I'd be really surprised at people being able to make a buck by buying on fleabay and flogging here though. Most here are reasonably savvy punters as well as tight gits so you'd be doing well to make any money that way. Not a business I'd want to be in as it's hard enough moving decent kit at forum friendly prices nevermind trying to get a margin.

[Lawrence001]

Repeated in error

[dantheman91]

Surely if something was bought from eBay should it not be at current market value thus no profit to be made anywhere?

Their a bargains out their depending on what your looking for in anything from Cars / Antiques anything. I guess the thing is to know your market chaps so say the Dali speakers i have listed currently normaly go in the region of £130 to 50 on ebay but i have marked them @ £100 here. I cant sell decent kit and the moment pretty much anyone on the forum can vouch in the same experience.

The same goes for gumtree say the SL-1210 i missed earlier in the year @ £55 the seller is still trying to selling it at £450 on gumtree and eBay.

I love this forum for the selling side and everything else i no longer use the Wam because of fees

[Scooby]

Ebay seems to be the place where things sell for top dollar. Forums tend to be a place where you get bargains from enthusiasts who don't want the hassle and fees of EBay. Anyone making a big profit from buying on EBay and selling here would appear to swimming against a strong tide IMO. Good luck making a business out of it.

[Ali Tait]

If I sell stuff here that I bought here, it goes for the same or less. Not really bothered if some make a few quid here or there - it's caveat emptor, caveat venditor - but if folk are regularly taking the piss, that's another matter IMO.

[RichB]

Ah, i see. Yes I've re read it. I am currently struck down with man flu so you'll have to forgive me.

Still my sentiment on protecting the integrity of the forum is valid.

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I know there's a post limit to put off Johnny come lately buyers and sellers just signing up to take advantage but maybe there's a case for increasing the number of posts they need to have made to qualify, or a credibility score of some kind.

[Audio Al]

Surely if something was bought from eBay should it not be at current market value thus no profit to be made anywhere?

Their a bargains out their depending on what your looking for in anything from Cars / Antiques anything. I guess the thing is to know your market chaps so say the Dali speakers i have listed currently normaly go in the region of £130 to 50 on ebay but i have marked them @ £100 here. I cant sell decent kit and the moment pretty much anyone on the forum can vouch in the same experience.

The same goes for gumtree say the SL-1210 i missed earlier in the year @ £55 the seller is still trying to selling it at £450 on gumtree and eBay.

I love this forum for the selling side and everything else i no longer use the Wam because of fees

I use the Wam for the community and have no objections to paying a fee , It help with the forum running costs , Yes I paid £25 and would do the same here if the time ever came ,

[karma67]

Sure they will eventually go. Quite rare things, and worth keeping if you cannot get price you want.
yes,im not to bothered although i could have done with the cash at xmas.
i would like to recap them just to see if they improve more.

[kenworthy100]

Ive noticed one or two people who seem to consistently make a 30-50% (->100%!) markup on things sold on this and other forums. They buy them on ebay or other forums and move them on within weeks for a significant premium. They claim to be inveterate box swappers but they make a nice little earner from the forums.

This really winds me up as I think on the forums we should be sharing our good fortune for getting gear at a reasonable price if it doesn't work out for us. Don't get me wrong I've made money before but I sell them on ebay or gumtree as I don't see the same expectation of being a community on there.

I was wondering if I'm being overly sensitive and the classifieds are just a free market free for all,or if people agree with me on this?


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I completely agree, this goes against the whole ethos of the forum and is just wrong.

[martian sunrise]

+1

[Cotlake]

Hmmmm, remember this sorry thread?

http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?46405-NVA-TSS-Power-Amp-%A375-Spares-Or-Repair&highlight=sale

Now look at this.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NVA-TSS-Power-Amplifier-/302123743474?hash=item4657fa78f2:g:3h8AAOSwkd5YFf5 n

£295 profit on a £75 item sold here (and don't forget the additional £50 postage).

:steam::steam:

[southall-1998]

No harm in making a little profit, IMO.

This year, I bought a Sugden A21a for £450 and sold it for £500. No guilt feelings about it!

S.

[martian sunrise]

There's no harm in profit, but I'm pretty sure most people on here would rather someone that's a part of the community benefits from shifting gear on, rather than the (relative) bargains are swept up and sold on for a buck or two. I'm relatively new here, but have been the benefactor of the goodwill that the forum generates on a number of occasions because the person selling stuff is an enthusiast rather than a trader.

I'm a member of another forum (classic bikes - don't ask) where there was a 'dealer' that aggressively hoovered up the parts and bikes to the point that there was no advantage to selling through the forum.

It not like that here, and I am exaggerating to make a point, but I definitely understand the concern.

[Ninanina]

Hmmmm, remember this sorry thread?

http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?46405-NVA-TSS-Power-Amp-%A375-Spares-Or-Repair&highlight=sale

Now look at this.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NVA-TSS-Power-Amplifier-/302123743474?hash=item4657fa78f2:g:3h8AAOSwkd5YFf5 n

£295 profit on a £75 item sold here (and don't forget the additional £50 postage).

:steam::steam:

Greg you are right an AoS member did buy it for £75 and apparently sold it for a huge profit but both myself and Colin are not upset about it

However if it's working the other way round and AoS members are buying cheap elsewhere and consistently selling on here for a big profit then that seems completely against the spirit of this forum and I think it's a real shame if this is going on

I would much rather buy from someone on here than an eBay seller as I feel happier that people on here are more honest about what they are selling, and we have a nice Feedback Section as well

[Barry]

Hmmmm, remember this sorry thread?

http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?46405-NVA-TSS-Power-Amp-%A375-Spares-Or-Repair&highlight=sale

Now look at this.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NVA-TSS-Power-Amplifier-/302123743474?hash=item4657fa78f2:g:3h8AAOSwkd5YFf5 n

£295 profit on a £75 item sold here (and don't forget the additional £50 postage).

:steam::steam:

So it didn't sell here (for understandable reasons). The seller then tried eBay, where it did sell for a profit - what is so wrong with that? A full and accurate description was given: the item wasn't working properly and was being sold for spares and repair. Any prospective and interested buyer would have presumably done some research on this item and have been satisfied the item was worth buying.

[walpurgis]

So it didn't sell here (for understandable reasons). The seller then tried eBay, where it did sell for a profit - what is so wrong with that? A full and accurate description was given: the item wasn't working properly and was being sold for spares and repair. Any prospective and interested buyer would have presumably done some research on this item and have been satisfied the item was worth buying.

I agree. The buyer may well have bought this to sell on, but it was taking a bit of a chance. As far as I'm aware, the defects if any, had not been identified and presumably the design spec was unknown too.

[eddieedwards]

if I buy on a forum for a price, I would only then advertise again on the forums at the same price. On occasions, if struggling to sell on the forums, I've also advertised on fee pay with a reserve of the same price as paid on the forum and ended up making a little profit. Ultimately, I only wanted back what I'd paid.

The real issue here, is the reason for the purchase in the first place. Was it originally bought with the intention to keep it and, for whatever reason, didn't work for the buyer, or was it bought solely with profiteering in mind?

To intentionally attempt to profit, in a community that helps one another, is plain wrong in my eyes.

[Wakefield Turntables]

You also have to ask yourself the question how much stress is an extra £50 profit on an item worth? Do you really want some whinging git complaining that the parcel was delivered 2 minutes late or getting reports that piece of equipment which worked perfectly only yesterday now skips and refuses to play, meaning you have to refund, then pay for the postage and then pick it up again et al, et al, et al. In short no, I trust people on here and do 95% of my buying on this forum and maybe the other 5% on ebay / other hifi forums.

[ianlenco]

Well put Matthew. A while back I bought a nice Sony deck. Although I did some minor work including a new lid in the end I sold it here for what I paid - I bought from the WAM but sold it here given that forums in general are a community. However, I recently bought a pair of pretty knackered LS3/5a speakers from here knowing that if I invested some money and time in them I won't lose out if I eventually sell. I did it part for a fun project and part for making a little profit at a later date but given the amount of work required I'm not going to feel guilty about that.

[Macca]

If you add value to something then I think it is fair to ask for more than you paid on re-sale.

[mikeyb]

I'm not fussed where anything comes from, if the price is right I'll buy it.

[eddieedwards]

If you add value to something then I think it is fair to ask for more than you paid on re-sale.

Yes, of course, that's a different matter and it is now more valuable due to the outlay.

If using eBay, I suppose I would add a value on to cover fees so that I "nett out" somewhere close to my original outlay. TBH, a loss is usual and acceptable. No hobby is free.

[Lawrence001]

A mixed bag of responses then so I'll have a think about it and keep an eye on the sales forum.


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[struth]

http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?48126-Phono-Stage/page2 so I'll have a think about it and keep an eye on the sales forum.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]

I wouldnt have said that. Mostly in agreement i,d have thought.

[karma67]

Hmmmm, remember this sorry thread?

http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?46405-NVA-TSS-Power-Amp-%A375-Spares-Or-Repair&highlight=sale

Now look at this.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NVA-TSS-Power-Amplifier-/302123743474?hash=item4657fa78f2:g:3h8AAOSwkd5YFf5 n

£295 profit on a £75 item sold here (and don't forget the additional £50 postage).

:steam::steam:
yep and despite it being shown as working it (as predicted) blew up again!

[Macca]

That's a problem for whoever bought it off ebay. IIRC it was clearly described as faulty.

As regards this subject in general we are not in the business of compelling people to act morally, and what is considered to be moral, or not, is going to vary to an extent from individual to individual. Ultimately the onus is on people to act according to their own conscience and do the right thing because they want to, not because they are compelled to.

[karma67]

not on the original sales thread on this forum it wasnt,there was even a video posted showing it working,that whole thread stunk in my opinion and the forum owner agreed with me in a pm.

[MikeMusic]

I use Ebay and others to work out what the price ought to be.
If there is an Ebay price I advertise for less - and deliver more where I can.

[Macca]

not on the original sales thread on this forum it wasnt,there was even a video posted showing it working,that whole thread stunk in my opinion and the forum owner agreed with me in a pm.

That was dealt with at the time. We were talking about the eBay listing I thought.

[karma67]

ah,very confusing lol.

[Macca]

Tell me about it. :)

[eddieedwards]

I understand that the art of sound itself is in a tricky position, however, I do find it odd that a forum that prides itself on "ethos" is not concerned about the "business of compelling people to act morally".

Potential calculated profiteering is considered acceptable, yet if good people fail to add a picture to their advert, they're publicly castigated. Seems contradictory to me.

[Macca]

I'm not sure that I follow your logic. The pictures rule is nothing to do with compelling people to act morally.

In any case it is the 'compelling' side of things I was emphasising. This isn't a moral training academy, so we only really want members who already know how to act decently. If anyone is confused about what that entails then this isn't the place to come and learn.

As far as posing as a private seller to profiteer is concerned, if anyone has good reason to think this is happening, PM one of the mods. We very rarely get any complaints about the sales section, and it is very busy. So such instances are pretty rare. But if noticed they will be dealt with according to all the circumstances.

[Ninanina]

not on the original sales thread on this forum it wasnt,there was even a video posted showing it working,that whole thread stunk in my opinion and the forum owner agreed with me in a pm.

Jamie I take offense to that. The original thread CLEARLY stated it was for spares or repairs....and it sold for a measly £75... I really can't see how anyone can say that the thread 'stunk' as you put it. I don't know why people keep bringing this very old thread up

[RichB]

Jamie I take offense to that. The original thread CLEARLY stated it was for spares or repairs....and it sold for a measly £75... I really can't see how anyone can say that the thread 'stunk' as you put it. I don't know why people keep bringing this very old thread up

This guys obviously on a wind up Bev. Fukim.

[Ninanina]

This guys obviously on a wind up Bev. Fukim.

You are probably right Rich however if he's trying to wind me up then he's barking up the wrong tree as that will never happen... I have much more important things to worry about :)

[mikeyb]

I think we should start a list of sellers who bought their hifi gear prior to the recession, lets say we go back through prices to 1970 and ban all the ones who sold something for more than they paid for it, the profiteering so and so's.

AVForums, one of the bigger ones on the net used to have a no profiteering rule, it has now been dropped.

If anyone manages to buy something from anywhere and sell it here for a profit then good luck to them, it is surely only worth what the buyer is willing to pay.

All this thread is going to do is open up a whole can of worms, cause friction and get people slapped wrists.

If you know someone is selling something for more than they paid for it, YOU DON'T HAVE TO BUY IT;)

Now where's that Garrard 301 TT my granpappy bought for 10 shillings, I really must get it on the sale pages, I better not ask more than 50p, can I add postage to that I wonder?

[brian2957]

I think we should start a list of sellers who bought their hifi gear prior to the recession, lets say we go back through prices to 1970 and ban all the ones who sold something for more than they paid for it, the profiteering so and so's.

AVForums, one of the bigger ones on the net used to have a no profiteering rule, it has now been dropped.



Now where's that Garrard 301 TT my granpappy bought for 10 shillings, I really must get it on the sale pages, I better not ask more than 50p, can I add postage to that I wonder?

:D

[hughandella]

I've no idea if I am on Lawrence's 'watch list' but am conscious I've bought and sold a fair bit of kit over last year or so ---- this is mainly because I have not been working and so have had a fair amount of time to get to hear and play with hifi that I've always enjoyed -- I've made on some and lost on others as is usual, I tend to agree with the view that there is a fair/right price for most items and most members on here and savvy but perhaps more importantly do not have the time or inclination to sit on eBay and look for 'cheapies' --- if someone does and then sells them on here for an ok price that no one is forced to buy then I think the majority benefit but not sure it would be a 'business model' likely to survive longterm (!) ..... I confess I might be feeling paranoid as I bought some speakers recently and have them for sale on here at a 'higher' price if you believe the sold price on ebay ---- in this example there was some other gear involved too but both parties (i.e. me too!) objects to eBay fees so chat direct on that ... where I do have some sympathy though is if someone is consistently buying on here aiming only to make a profit ( and not offering item back on here at a lower price aswell ) but again it suits many to have the ease of just getting the funds they want for some gear they no longer need without all the hassle of eBay et al ...... as ever its a grey area imho unless its incredibly blatant but there are box swappers out there ( I'm one for sure although trying to temper it a bit ) and personally I have really enjoyed hearing lots of kit in a relatively short space of time, I've discovered Croft as a result and other brands and got to hear a lot of tube gear I wouldn't have ..... tbh i find the idea that 'activity' is being monitored by other members a bit creepy if i'm honest -- I've had time on my hands but not that much time ---- but one thing I have learnt to my cost is that there are lots of ongoing and past issues and disagreements I was blissfully unaware of, and I for one, preferred not knowing ! :)

[mikeyb]

Aye you've been fingered as we used to say in the Fire Service, and the reply was always "lucky lucky bastard'

Lol 😁

Edit: don't worry I certainly don't think the op refers to you, and I don't really care it's a none issue as far as I'm concerned

[alcarmichael]

I've just stumbled upon this thread and had to read all of it to see if I appeared. Of course, it was inevitable. I bought the NVA TSS out of curiosity, it's a stunning looking piece of equipment. I did not realise what I was getting myself into initially but I soon discovered that the creator of this amplifier is one of the most disgusting human beings I've ever met in the audio community.

If you want to read more about this you'll find the thread I'm involved in on his forum with ease.

I acted extremely fairly, I don't really see how anyone could've been any fairer in my situation. However it transpired that he is an enormous bell end. Hence when the amp blew up (I later learnt that this was my fault when I also blew the fuse on my Croft series 7) I listed the NVA on eBay with the hope that it would annoy him, seemingly this worked a treat.

The sizeable profit I made was an added bonus but not something I expected at all. I'm still a little bemused why anyone would pay such a large amount for a broken amplifier. I wouldn't have paid the £75 for it I paid if it was broken when I collected it.

I could go on but I needn't, my conscience is clear.

I've sold equipment to several people in this very thread, I'm certain they're happy and I most certainly didn't make any profit.

Merry 27th of December

[Sovereign]

I've just stumbled upon this thread and had to read all of it to see if I appeared. Of course, it was inevitable. I bought the NVA TSS out of curiosity, it's a stunning looking piece of equipment. I did not realise what I was getting myself into initially but I soon discovered that the creator of this amplifier is one of the most disgusting human beings I've ever met in the audio community.

If you want to read more about this you'll find the thread I'm involved in on his forum with ease.

I acted extremely fairly, I don't really see how anyone could've been any fairer in my situation. However it transpired that he is an enormous bell end. Hence when the amp blew up (I later learnt that this was my fault when I also blew the fuse on my Croft series 7) I listed the NVA on eBay with the hope that it would annoy him, seemingly this worked a treat.

The sizeable profit I made was an added bonus but not something I expected at all. I'm still a little bemused why anyone would pay such a large amount for a broken amplifier. I wouldn't have paid the £75 for it I paid if it was broken when I collected it.

I could go on but I needn't, my conscience is clear.

I've sold equipment to several people in this very thread, I'm certain they're happy and I most certainly didn't make any profit.

Merry 27th of December
Even though the amp wasn't mine I was somehow involved in the sale, Alex is a good man indeed, but I'm still waiting for my back hand slice of the profits :stalks:

[Marco]

I did not realise what I was getting myself into initially but I soon discovered that the creator of this amplifier is one of the most disgusting human beings I've ever met in the audio community.


Your succinct assessment of the human character is commendable :)

Marco.

[alcarmichael]

Even though the amp wasn't mine I was somehow involved in the sale, Alex is a good man indeed, but I'm still waiting for my back hand slice of the profits :stalks:

The cheque was enclosed in your Christmas card mate :lol:

[Marco]

I have noticed 2 suspects , I contacted Marco re one , Nothing done about it

Sorry, Al, I don't remember anything about this. Perhaps you could refresh my memory? :)

As a point in general, people should remember that my life doesn't revolve around every posting or PM directed at me on AoS. These days, my visits to the forum are more fleeting, as I have many other things that occupy my time, especially as this place gets bigger and bigger, so please bear that in mind.

Also bear in mind that on average I can receive 35-40 PMs per day and many more emails, so if I forget to answer some or simply don't have the time to reply, then forgive me as I'm only human ;) There simply aren't enough hours in the day for me to respond to every single PM or post.

That, however, doesn't mean I don't care about whatever has been written or asked of me (far from it), or that necessary action needs taken. So instead of reacting negatively to matters, feel free to REMIND ME that you think something needs my attention, or that you've sent me a PM you consider hasn't been dealt with, via whatever means is necessary, and I promise that I will attend to it at my earliest convenience.

Cheers, folks! :cool:

Marco.

[DSJR]

I've just stumbled upon this thread and had to read all of it to see if I appeared. Of course, it was inevitable. I bought the NVA TSS out of curiosity, it's a stunning looking piece of equipment. I did not realise what I was getting myself into initially but I soon discovered that the creator of this amplifier is one of the most disgusting human beings I've ever met in the audio community.

If you want to read more about this you'll find the thread I'm involved in on his forum with ease.

I acted extremely fairly, I don't really see how anyone could've been any fairer in my situation. However it transpired that he is an enormous bell end. Hence when the amp blew up (I later learnt that this was my fault when I also blew the fuse on my Croft series 7) I listed the NVA on eBay with the hope that it would annoy him, seemingly this worked a treat.

The sizeable profit I made was an added bonus but not something I expected at all. I'm still a little bemused why anyone would pay such a large amount for a broken amplifier. I wouldn't have paid the £75 for it I paid if it was broken when I collected it.

I could go on but I needn't, my conscience is clear.

I've sold equipment to several people in this very thread, I'm certain they're happy and I most certainly didn't make any profit.

Merry 27th of December

Oh come on ;) You knew EXACTLY what you were buying as you discussed it well enough before making the journey to collect it and at the time, I believe you were offered the same amount in friendly terms to pass it back to the maker, so that he could put it out of its misery (I'd have had it myself but just don't have the funds to spare (I had enough amps as it was)). You carried on, confirmed it was well blown, botched in a kind-of 'repair' as shown in the pics you provided and ended up selling it to someone? on eBay, who may well try to cannibalise another amp for parts in the hope of getting it to work again after a fashion.

NOBODY's nose is clean on this one imo, but I honestly don't think you were ignorant of the history of this unit when you bought it.

[karma67]

yep,i pm'd him before he bought it to say dont bother its going to go bang.
might be best now to let it rest.

[Scooby]

Oh come on ;) You knew EXACTLY what you were buying as you discussed it well enough before making the journey to collect it and at the time, I believe you were offered the same amount in friendly terms to pass it back to the maker, so that he could put it out of its misery (I'd have had it myself but just don't have the funds to spare (I had enough amps as it was)). You carried on, confirmed it was well blown, botched in a kind-of 'repair' as shown in the pics you provided and ended up selling it to someone? on eBay, who may well try to cannibalise another amp for parts in the hope of getting it to work again after a fashion.

NOBODY's nose is clean on this one imo, but I honestly don't think you were ignorant of the history of this unit when you bought it.

I read Alcarmichael's post differently. Surely it wasn't the condition of the amp but the personality of the maker he was referring to. This is evidenced by his sentence: "I did not realise what I was getting myself into initially, but I soon discovered that the creator of the amplifier is one of the most disgusting human beings I've ever met in the Audio community".

Also why was it not ok for Alex to buy this amp, yet it would have been OK for DSJR to do so if he had the funds or space?

[struth]

Yup, this sale is not really anything to do with this thread ime. As i remember it was discussed and as it was clearly sold as spares repairs, it was ok. If someone then resold it on ebay, then such is life.

[TheMooN]

It was my understanding that whilst discussion of NVA equipment is quite acceptable under the AUP ! However it was also my understanding that any and all reference or comment upon the proprietor of that company would not be tolerated and deleted forthwith. I would like to inquire why the rather unpleasant and unnecessary Ad Hominem comments made in post #65 have been allowed to remain ?

For my part I care not one fig about that particular company nor its proprietor , however I am uncomfortable being a member of a forum where it's AUP and friendly ethos are selectively disregarded where and when it suits personal agenda.

[SteveTheShadow]

Yes, I was wondering about that too.
Seems like we have one rule for.....
The whole episode with the TSS seems like gigantic wind-up, and no doubt it will resurface, when the wind-up merchants want to have another pop at RD.
Anyway I bear no one on here any ill feeling but its time for a parting of the ways.

[Marco]

It was my understanding that whilst discussion of NVA equipment is quite acceptable under the AUP ! However it was also my understanding that any and all reference or comment upon the proprietor of that company would not be tolerated and deleted forthwith. I would like to inquire why the rather unpleasant and unnecessary Ad Hominem comments made in post #65 have been allowed to remain ?

For my part I care not one fig about that particular company nor its proprietor , however I am uncomfortable being a member of a forum where it's AUP and friendly ethos are selectively disregarded where and when it suits personal agenda.

Hi Roger,

Thanks for your comments. A couple of things.... Firstly, we don't have an AUP, but rather an ethos [please see here for details: http://theartofsound.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?18-Our-Ethos], so there are no 'black and white' rules here as such, other than on special occasions. Therefore, apart from where something is clearly stated as a rule, it's more about the standards of behaviour we adhere to here as members.

Alan did not refer to the banned person in question directly by his name, but simply as "the creator of this amplifier", therefore as such he was not breaking any rules. It would be different if he had named him as "RD" or "Richard Dunn", both of which would have resulted in the post being removed under the rules you're referring to. Non-specific/and or indirect/oblique references to such are allowed for those who may understand and appreciate them.

It should also be noted (and I've stated this many times before, and is IMPORTANT) that due to the nature of the personal abuse I have to endure on an almost daily basis from the person in question and/or his cronies on his 'forum', I reserve the right, when an appropriate opportunity arises, to have a pop back (largely because I find it cathartic), which is what I did, on post #67, after Alan made his comments.

This only happens *very occasionally*, and indeed, unlike on said forum in question, we don't have a dedicated section of AoS that personally insults and abuses everyone we don't like or who don't conform to our 'world view', therefore we can hardly be accused of instigating any unpleasantness.

So, you either accept that or you don't. It's entirely your decision whether you wish to continue contributing here under those conditions, but until the person in question ceases his unjustified campaign of harassment and abuse, and lets bygones be bygones, I will *occasionally* respond here in the way I see fit.

The same also applies to Steve, and Steve you would do well to look at the contents of the thread 'elsewhere' where you've been critical of AoS, and ask yourself who the main aggressor is in all of this and who is repeatedly continuing the ill-feeling, before making accusations of "bullying" or apportioning blame to people here, as if we were the only ones guilty of creating unpleasantness.

I've said on many occasions before that I would end all this stuff now, between the owner of NVA and I/AoS, if a certain thread elsewhere were deleted and no further derogatory remarks were made by him towards AoS and me, but said person is not remotely interested in that, and instead is adamant in continuing his stupid 'war', so consider that before you apportion blame to anyone for the existence of this situation.

I have far better things to do with my time than continue perpetrating ill-feeling, based on age-old grudges over stuff that happened YEARS ago, but it appears he doesn't! The same also applies to the serial 'banees' from AoS and elsewhere, who populate said 'banned from being mentioned forum', and refuse to STFU, move on and GET A LIFE :wanker:

However, something else I would say before I lock this thread, as it has now served its purpose, is that it would be nice if people refrained from concerning themselves with forum politics and that which has nothing whatsoever to do with them [i.e. disagreements with individuals and forums elsewhere], and concentrate instead on posting SOLELY about hi-fi, music and permitted off-topic subjects, as becoming embroiled in the former is only liable at some point to end badly, especially for those who are determined to be continually critical of our decisions.

Ok, should anyone wish to discuss matters further, or comment on anything I have written, you are welcome to do so via PM, either to myself or one of the mods. Cheers :cool:

Marco.