View Full Version : Have I gone over to the Dark Side?
In the last week or so I have gone over to.....errr....not sure what you would call it...Streaming?
I bought a Chromecast Audio, which is operated with a PLEX music server download and ripped CD's being (streamed?) wirelessly to the hifi. How does it sound? IMO brilliant! No moving parts.....how do they do that:eek:
Audio Al
17-12-2016, 23:55
In the last week or so I have gone over to.....errr....not sure what you would call it...Streaming?
I bought a Chromecast Audio, which is operated with a PLEX music server download and ripped CD's being (streamed?) wirelessly to the hifi. How does it sound? IMO brilliant! No moving parts.....how do they do that:eek:
All hope is lost , :(
walpurgis
17-12-2016, 23:59
Oh dear.
Audio Al
18-12-2016, 02:02
One advantage is = you pay for all you equipment and get nothing when you buy music :hmm:
jandl100
18-12-2016, 07:33
Yay - music streaming from t'internet rules.
For a tenner a month I get an incomparably large music collection at my beck and call.
Every music session is a voyage of discovery. :thumbsup:
I have to confess that I don't see the point of ripping CDs - I just get 'em off the streaming service.
Well to my buggered ears it sounds great:D I have some CD's ripped and a lot is streamed off t'internet. Those that I have ripped from CD I have used Switch Audio File Converter which enables up to 320kbps.
Rothchild
18-12-2016, 08:59
Well to my buggered ears it sounds great:D I have some CD's ripped and a lot is streamed off t'internet. Those that I have ripped from CD I have used Switch Audio File Converter which enables up to 320kbps.
I'd advise ripping the cds to FLAC as it's a lossless codec, so you're making a full scale backup at the same time. Most home streaming solutions have some sort of option to downscale your rips to something lesser (ie 320k or less) on the fly, should you need to conserve bandwidth for whatever reason.
One disadvantage:
you never know or have total control over what you get. I stream music now but my LP and CD collection still rule for me. Try obtaining the RCA "Living Stereo" or Decca 50th Anniversary recordings in all their glory via a streaming service. Good luck with that. I find it more useful for discovering music. I then research the best recordings (mainly for classical) and if they can't be downloaded, I buy the CD.
As with most hifi stuff, a balance between the two is the best option.
I'm streaming Tidal as well as my own library, a good mix.
Well to my buggered ears it sounds great:D I have some CD's ripped and a lot is streamed off t'internet. Those that I have ripped from CD I have used Switch Audio File Converter which enables up to 320kbps.
..........and you can't tell the difference between 320kb/s and a CD? (A serious inquiry, not 'having a go'). Whenever I've done any tests I don't like less than CD quality. Very flat, 1 dimensional sound, no depth to it. This has always put me off streaming.
Are there any of the main services which provide CD quality or above?
Jim.
montesquieu
18-12-2016, 18:10
I've trialled a few streaming services but most seem pretty thin in the Classical area if your tastes are focused as opposed to broad (I must have more than 30 recordings of Schubert's Winterreise for example, where your average streaming service might be happy with 3-4 max). I have no interest in big orchestral stuff which seems to be there in abundance, but the sort of rare renaissance and baroque stuff I like to track down on both vinyl and CD (specialist labels most of the time) was conspicuous by its absence.
Also, for me, digital just fails to satisfy the 'touch it/feel it/read it/listen to it/own it' need that I have. I do have a RPi (two actually one in the main system the other in the study) with the equivalent of maybe 500 CDs ripped on a NAS server tucked away in the study. But I find the experience of using streamed media deeply unsatisfying - not enough ceremony, mental preparation, physical engagement, whatever you want to call it - at least, for anything other than background music.
Indeed quite a few people I know who at the beginning loudly embraced streaming with words of wonder and astonishment have sheepishly gone back over the months and years to physical media, precisely because the human needs around interaction with physical objects involved are not met.
Tidal streams 16/44 Flac, cd quality.
montesquieu
18-12-2016, 19:24
Tidal streams 16/44 Flac, cd quality.
... and a quick poke around suggest MUCH better for classical than I've seen in my previous forways. Hmmm.
But the rest of what I said still stands.
..........and you can't tell the difference between 320kb/s and a CD? (A serious inquiry, not 'having a go'). Whenever I've done any tests I don't like less than CD quality. Very flat, 1 dimensional sound, no depth to it. This has always put me off streaming.
Are there any of the main services which provide CD quality or above?
Jim.
Hi Jim, very much in agreement, I have a few 320kb/s and FLAC duplicates, mp3 is obviously flat in comparison...
So if one's taking the time to rip a CD, do it to FLAC :)
Indeed quite a few people I know who at the beginning loudly embraced streaming with words of wonder and astonishment have sheepishly gone back over the months and years to physical media, precisely because the human needs around interaction with physical objects involved are not met.
This is a strange need. I think of it as a complete pain in the buttress.
When track/album selection by thought becomes a reality I will be first in the queue with a fistful of notes to pay for it.
If I were starting out now I'd go with streaming. I have a couple of thousand albums, a sort of medium sized collection compared to quite a number of people. I only buy about an album a month now, streaming isn't for me at this stage of my musical life.
jandl100
21-12-2016, 07:42
I've trialled a few streaming services but most seem pretty thin in the Classical area if your tastes are focused as opposed to broad (I must have more than 30 recordings of Schubert's Winterreise for example, where your average streaming service might be happy with 3-4 max)
I've just checked on my beloved Spotify - I got bored with counting Winterreise(s/n) when I got to 118 and stopped counting.
Sure, some of those are doubles of the same recording, but the vast majority aren't.
I've got a month's sub (again (http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?1236-New-speakers-and-amps&p=814526#post814526)) with Tidal at the moment (I'll be letting it lapse at the end as I prefer Spotify Premium) - and that has about 70 Winterreisen.
Indeed quite a few people I know who at the beginning loudly embraced streaming with words of wonder and astonishment have sheepishly gone back over the months and years to physical media, precisely because the human needs around interaction with physical objects involved are not met.
Not me, guv.
If I felt secure in dumping all of my LPs and CDs I would do so! ... OK, I'll keep the few in my collection that aren't available on Spotify.
I just love the virtual feel of internet streaming, its easy accessibility and the ease with which the search facilities present new music to try.
It's like having CD shelves half a mile long. It has literally transformed my listening habits and pleasure (for the better!).
My hifi boxswapping has gradually declined to an all-time low since Justin nagged me into trying streaming - there's no time now for hifi shenanigans when there is so much new music to discover. :)
...........So if one's taking the time to rip a CD, do it to FLAC..............
Do you prefer FLAC over WAV?
There seems to be more DATA in a WAV File (comparing the two File sizes) so I am assuming more Music DATA? The difference cannot just be the Meta DATA?
Jim
Ali Tait
21-12-2016, 08:44
Both are lossless, FLAC takes up less space though.
montesquieu
07-01-2017, 20:46
Err guys .. large portion of humble pie coming up .. but I've been looking at Tidal since this discussion and it has to be worth a trial at least.
What would be the best device to stream Tidal from that would provide SPDIF to my DAC? Is there an option from RPi? (as I have one of those). I have a spare Macbook kicking around that could be pressed into service if necessary, but I'm probably happiest with a widget of some kind ... the ideal would be a device controlled by my iPhone/iPad as well as a web browser.
Resistance is futile.
I'm not sure the chipset in your DAC will allow TIDAL's MQA to shine, Tom. Isn't it some esoteric old school chip that Peter thinks sounds great but doesn't support 24/96 and above?
Also, is the SPDIF input optical or hardwired (I suspect the later)?
montesquieu
07-01-2017, 21:34
Resistance is futile.
I'm not sure the chipset in your DAC will allow TIDAL's MQA to shine, Tom. Isn't it some esoteric old school chip that Peter thinks sounds great but doesn't support 24/96 and above?
Also, is the SPDIF input optical or hardwired (I suspect the later)?
It's a very much upgraded AN kit Dac 2.1x, upgraded to more or less 4.1 spec ... it has the same balanced output transformers and I/V transformers as the 4.1x, it's stuffed with Black Gates and (unusally for an AN) has four digital inputs - AN transformer-coupled AES-EBU (XLR), AN transformer-coupled SPDIF (RCA), a JFET buffered SPDIF input (also RCA) and a board that gives Asynchronous USB input that I've had working with PCs but doesn't like Macs for some reason. No optical.
The DAC does 24/96 which is all my ears can really handle anyway ... the little RPi wtih HifiBerry Digi+board sounds really quite good into the RCA inputs.
If that is a newish MacBook doesn't it have a USB-C port?
Just trying to help but TBH I haven't really got any top suggestions based on practical usage. I use a pretty odd setup myself.
I used to use an MF VLINK but I can't recommend one. Always had sync issues with it and the DAC - another MF product LOL.
montesquieu
07-01-2017, 22:13
Macbook is an old one, 2009 but 8GB ram and it's had the CD drive removed and replaced with a 256gb SSD drive, the internal is now a 1Tb drive so a decent amount of space and excellent performance for a machine of this vintage.
Is there no streaming appliance that outputs SPDIF - Apple Music or whatever? - that speaks to Tidal?
There are loads of generic products that will do what you want i.e. not specifically aimed at TIDAL. So what is the output on the Mac - Firewire or USB-B? Need to know what needs to be connected to what, and the fact that you said the MacBook didn't work with the DAC's USB input is confusing without further info.
What OS is the MacBook using and will TIDAL even run on it is another question?
montesquieu
07-01-2017, 22:26
There are loads of generic products that will do what you want i.e. not specifically aimed at TIDAL. So what is the output on the Mac - Firewire or USB-B? Need to know what needs to be connected to what, and the fact that you said the MacBook didn't work with the DAC's USB input is confusing without further info.
It's an older Mac with everythiing - USB, Firewire etc, the problem is there is no Mac driver for the board that was fitted in my DAC, it works fine with a PC laptop. But I'd rather not have a Mac permanently plugged in I'd rather use an appliance of some kind that's why I was asking if there's a cheap appliance that could stream Tidal that I could control from my phone or a web browser.
Not sure if you can use tidal on a pc and control it from a ipad.you can on spotify but I was told, perhaps wrongly that it didnt work with tidal. That would be a big offput for me as I need that.
ps i think there is a 2 month trial going at moment
Is there no streaming appliance that outputs SPDIF - Apple Music or whatever? - that speaks to Tidal?
Yes, you already have a RPi with a Digi+ for SPDIF, so just add an Android phone or cheap Android tablet running Bubble UPNP which will stream Tidal to your Pi. Done.
You can also run Bubble on a Mac or PC, apparently. I think that's more complicated: http://www.hifizine.com/2016/06/how-to-stream-tidal-to-the-raspberry-pi/
I tried Bubble uPnP with my Android phone and tried to get it to stream TIDAL. It didn't work well. There are some YouTube videos showing how, It wouldn't stream phone stored content (the TIDAL phone app offline mode - as opposed to a live stream). It is also a hassle.
You can stream TIDAL to a Bluetooth receiver as they recently allowed it but you lose SQ that way.
You could read this: http://www.hifizine.com/2016/06/how-to-stream-tidal-to-the-raspberry-pi/ and try the Lumin option?
I tried Bubble uPnP with my Android phone and tried to get it to stream TIDAL. It didn't work well.
I've streamed Qobuz from a tablet that way without any problems but I haven't tried Tidal yet.
I've streamed Qobuz from a tablet that way without any problems but I haven't tried Tidal yet.
You lose the TIDAL GUI too, which I didn't like. You have to play via Bubble uPnP as far as I remember.
I really think the best way is a dedicated laptop and a USB to SPDIF converter for Tom. Using things like uPnP apps and interfacing with an R-Pi probably isn't what Tom wants to get involved with. Tom just pick up a USB to SPDIF converter off ebay and find a PC or use your MacBook provided you can find a driver for the converter and a version of TIDAL that will run on it. Try and download TIDAL onto it to see if it at least runs?
At least just to try it that would be the easiest option. Spend more later if smitten.
Err guys .. large portion of humble pie coming up .. but I've been looking at Tidal since this discussion and it has to be worth a trial at least.
What would be the best device to stream Tidal from that would provide SPDIF to my DAC? Is there an option from RPi? (as I have one of those). I have a spare Macbook kicking around that could be pressed into service if necessary, but I'm probably happiest with a widget of some kind ... the ideal would be a device controlled by my iPhone/iPad as well as a web browser.
Pity you don't not have an android device as Bubble uPnP can control Tidal and your Pi using either of the softwares will work fine.
Don't think there is a an app that can send Tidal to the Pi on iOS.
Unless you use a Roon Ready software install on the Pi and buy Roon which uses Tidal as its streaming service.
If you already have a MacBook I'd just use that to send Tidal music to your DAC via usb, that should at least give you an idea as to whether to go the whole hog.
I'm sending usb 10 meters on a cable from laptop to my dac, and its fine. repeater cables are not expensive. might be an option.
Err guys .. large portion of humble pie coming up .. but I've been looking at Tidal since this discussion and it has to be worth a trial at least.
What would be the best device to stream Tidal from that would provide SPDIF to my DAC? Is there an option from RPi? (as I have one of those). I have a spare Macbook kicking around that could be pressed into service if necessary, but I'm probably happiest with a widget of some kind ... the ideal would be a device controlled by my iPhone/iPad as well as a web browser.
Tom,
Buy Roon, can be run on a mac.
Its an endgame product and does exactly what you need.
RE: Tidal, best UI experience accessing Tidal I've seen is via Roon.
The Developers have thought in advance all the things you might want to browse your music by, seriously....what you wish they have already thought of!
Audio Al
08-01-2017, 01:09
Err guys .. large portion of humble pie coming up .. but I've been looking at Tidal since this discussion and it has to be worth a trial at least.
What would be the best device to stream Tidal from that would provide SPDIF to my DAC? Is there an option from RPi? (as I have one of those). I have a spare Macbook kicking around that could be pressed into service if necessary, but I'm probably happiest with a widget of some kind ... the ideal would be a device controlled by my iPhone/iPad as well as a web browser.
What ! :doh: DOH ! :eek: With all that lovely kit you have :scratch:
A man has to do what a man has to do ;)
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