Recommend me some Monoblocks

[madscientist]

Hi
I have been searching for a pair of Exposure XVI monos for years now with no success, can anyone recommend other monoblocks that may be suitable for use with an Exposure XIV/IX combo? Must be capable of driving a pair of Neat MFS.
Cheers

[Yomanze]

Pair of Exposure 3010S2 monos. Or some Avondale monos.

[Arkless Electronics]

There is no advantage to monoblocks unless it is to enable them to be lifted.... some monster amps would be too unwieldy and heavy if made in stereo form. Just saying.... carry on....

[Bigman80]

Hi
I have been searching for a pair of Exposure XVI monos for years now with no success, can anyone recommend other monoblocks that may be suitable for use with an Exposure XIV/IX combo? Must be capable of driving a pair of Neat MFS.
Cheers

I'm no expert and generally have no knowledge about compatibility but if Firebottle's new monoblocks would work i can recommend them highly. I have heard them a few times now and they are simply exceptional. In fact, some people are selling their old gear to fund purchases of the mono blocks.

[Barry]

I use monoblocks, as I like the idea of the power amplifier to be as close to the speaker as possible, thereby minimising speaker cable.

The monoblocks I use are no longer made:

Mark Levinson ML-2
Quad 50E
Quad 510
Quad 405-2 that have been extensively modified and 'monoblocked',

however I believe Quad may still make their QMP monoblock designs.

[Yomanze]

There is no advantage to monoblocks unless it is to enable them to be lifted.... some monster amps would be too unwieldy and heavy if made in stereo form. Just saying.... carry on....
...but you would see the benefits in a dual mono amp in one case vs a stereo one?

[MikeMusic]

Belles

I might be biased as I have them and think they are superb

:)

[hifinutt]

i had belles mb100 for several years , it took a very much more expensive power amp to beat them
they are very well built and have a lovely sound

audio emotion have a pair for 3.7k

[Simon_LDT]

I'm no expert and generally have no knowledge about compatibility but if Firebottle's new monoblocks would work i can recommend them highly. I have heard them a few times now and they are simply exceptional. In fact, some people are selling their old gear to fund purchases of the mono blocks.

Are these in production now then? I haven't seen anything in the relevant Firebottle threads.

[Bigman80]

Well, he has a set I've heard and someone on here is selling his Firebottle AIR to buy Firebottle Monoblocks and someone else is having a trial I believe so it looks like he is. Maybe hasn't advertised them yet but they are definitely gaining interest !

Drop him a PM. He might only be doing them to order.

They are exceptional

Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk

[Audio Al]

I have a pair of Albarry M608 mono blocks they do the job rather well and even better if used with the Albarry 1108 pre amp , you can also get the step up transformer Albarry MCA 11 if using a MC cartridge if you are old fashioned and use one of those strange black disc things ;)

[danilo]

I use monoblocks, as I like the idea of the power amplifier to be as close to the speaker as possible, thereby minimising speaker cable.

The monoblocks I use are no longer made:

Mark Levinson ML-2
Quad 50E
Quad 510
Quad 405-2 that have been extensively modified and 'monoblocked',

however I believe Quad may still make their QMP monoblock designs.

That's an 'interesting' dichotomy.. a preference for minimising pretty well impervious/bulletproof Speaker cabling in exchange for extended length, fragile and genuinely tricky signal level cabling ??

[Barry]

That's an 'interesting' dichotomy.. a preference for minimising pretty well impervious/bulletproof Speaker cabling in exchange for extended length, fragile and genuinely tricky signal level cabling ??

The signal cabling is fully balanced, so too is the preamp output as are the inputs to the power amps.

[Clifford.T Ward]

I started out using a single Rotel RB 850 and was pleased with the results but always felt that there was more ....so when cash was avaliable I added a second and used them bridged as mono blocks .....for me that was the Eureka moment , the sound improved several fold . better sound stage tighter bass , no sense of struggling at all......that was 25 years back and I have never looked back ......or course you need a good pre amp to start with ......

[User211]

A pair of vintage Accuphase M-60 monos. Unbelievably good I think. Best solid state amps I've ever had in the house in 40 odd years. And considering that's how old they are...

Should be able to track a pair down for £1500 to £2000.

[Arkless Electronics]

...but you would see the benefits in a dual mono amp in one case vs a stereo one?

It's tenuous... Any advantage in crosstalk performance due either to dual mono or monoblocks is infinitesimal in real terms. A cartridge for example gives a maximum separation of about 30dB whilst even an amp with poor crosstalk will manage 60dB or better... Remember that decibels are logarithmic. 30dB is 31 x whilst 60dB is 1000 x ;)

[Firebottle]

I don't think you listen with enough 'resolution' in your expectation or aural experience Jez.

The figures quoted are I'm sure reasonably representative, but when you have a fabulously detailed soundstage the emotive and spatial feel to the experience is though very low level sounds, certainly ones I have heard that come through better with monoblocks.

This is monoblocks built to an almost identical build as a stereo but as separate mono amplifiers.

:)

[Arkless Electronics]

I don't think you listen with enough 'resolution' in your expectation or aural experience Jez.

The figures quoted are I'm sure reasonably representative, but when you have a fabulously detailed soundstage the emotive and spatial feel to the experience is though very low level sounds, certainly ones I have heard that come through better with monoblocks.

This is monoblocks built to an almost identical build as a stereo but as separate mono amplifiers.

:)

I disagree with you 100% and would disagree more if there were more % available. As to my experience and expectations well they are second to none and I consider that an insult. Personally i would never talk bollocks like "emotive and spatial feel to the experience".... Been reading 6 moons lately?
Nor would I build amps with probably 2% or more distortion, including significant crossover distortion, and dubious damping factor..... Happy xmas :ner:

[Droog]

Blow that trumpet Ark......

As to my experience and expectations well they are second to none.
(Jezzer).

[Firebottle]

Happy Xmas to you too Jez :)
No insult intended (sorry :() but our experiences seem to differ a lot. Hey ho it would be boring if we were all the same.

:cool:

[anthonyTD]

There are advantages [IMHO] to each power amp having its own seperate power supply, and circuit layout, And I am sure Jez, when he is feeling less abrasive, would consider that, and the posible reasoning behind it!!!


The figures quoted are I'm sure reasonably representative, but when you have a fabulously detailed soundstage the emotive and spatial feel to the experience is though very low level sounds, certainly ones I have heard that come through better with monoblocks.

This is monoblocks built to an almost identical build as a stereo but as separate mono amplifiers.

:)

[Arkless Electronics]

There are advantages [IMHO] to each power amp having its own seperate power supply, and circuit layout, And I am sure Jez, when he is feeling less abrasive, would consider that, and the posible reasoning behind it!!!

Two completely separate mono amps in one case are at no disadvantage to two monoblocks! As to the PSU well as I'm sure you are aware, one big supply can have much better regulation than two much smaller ones... The rests down to layout, grounding regime and the PSRR of the topology. In the case of a fully regulated supply it could even be argued that there is no need for more than one supply as the regulation can be close to absolute. This of course opens a whole new can of worms....

We need to be sure we are comparing apples with apples here. Many a manufacturer will save monoblocks for their flagship product (often, as in many things hi fi, to placate public perception of a certain idea being intrinsically better...), and will therefore fit these flagships with a bigger transformer and more smoothing capacitance than a stereo version. There may well also be more output devices fitted also. These things will naturally lead to a better sound from the monoblocks... but not BECAUSE they are monoblocks! If a stereo chassis built to the same spec as the monoblocks would be physically unmanageable due to its size and weight then that is a good reason for going monoblock IMHO.

Having unprovoked veiled insults hurled at you by a fellow trader is likely to result in a degree of abrasiveness, however, I accept Allen's apology and extend my own, in the spirit of the season and forum decorum. Sorry :(

[Droog]

3 of my most memorable mono amps........

Monarchy Audio SM70 pro's.
NVA A70's
Rothwell Audio Mono's.

[Pete The Cat]

Pair of Exposure 3010S2 monos. Or some Avondale monos.

In my man cave I replaced an Exposure Super XVIII with a pair of Avondale M1s monos and I now think I'm happy for life in the amplifier department. I use an Exposure XVII pre and there's a great synergy between them.

Pete

[Arkless Electronics]

As an aside here... a bit of thread drift but relevant, there is a tendency with hi fi (and I'm sure many things), for the non technical especially and understandably, to make "2+2=5" type assumptions... An automotive allegory: " A red Porsche 911 is much faster than a silver Ford Fiesta so that shows that red cars are faster than silver ones"... The 911 probably has heated seats and air conditioning that the Ford doesn't also..... neither of which has anything to do with the 911's greater speed!

[struth]

finished talking down to everyone now ;)

[Macca]

As an aside here... a bit of thread drift but relevant, there is a tendency with hi fi (and I'm sure many things), for the non technical especially and understandably, to make "2+2=5" type assumptions... An automotive allegory: " A red Porsche 911 is much faster than a silver Ford Fiesta so that shows that red cars are faster than silver ones"... The 911 probably has heated seats and air conditioning that the Ford doesn't also..... neither of which has anything to do with the 911's greater speed!

You are suggesting that the perceived benefits of monoblocks are not related to them being monoblocks but to other factors?

[Droog]

Im not sure what he's (Jez) suggesting.

should we paint em.........!!!!!!

[walpurgis]

Can you get away with two left monoblocks, or do they have to be a left and a right? ;)

[Droog]

Dont be daft.......

Monos are ambidextrous.

[walpurgis]

Monos are ambidextrous.

Not necessarily.

http://i65.tinypic.com/i2j9nd.jpg

[Arkless Electronics]

You are suggesting that the perceived benefits of monoblocks are not related to them being monoblocks but to other factors?

I'm suggesting that there is little or no benefit in monoblocks full stop! As I was a few weeks ago that, other than under certain conditions, there is no advantage to a "two box" approach in other amps.... Far too many things in hi fi are "accepted wisdom" without there being a grain of proof to it or any reason for it... and in 90% of cases for "lost in the midst of time" marketing reasons! Personally, I think mistruths and "old wives tales" should be shown up for what they are. There are vested interests though who don't like this... those who own or manufacture two box solutions for example may not like it if someone like myself comes along and points out that there is no technical reason to suppose it better than a single box solution... and unfortunately sometimes take it personally if someone points out the bloke controlling the wizard;)
Being able to convince even 99.99% of people that something is true doesn't mean it actually is true....
At one time most people were conned into believing only one specific Caledonian turntable was up to the job!

[topoxforddoc]

Another UK alternative @ £2995 a pair - TRON Convergence 50 W Class A/B with switchable input sensitivity to suit most speakers and preamplifiers. Should drive your Neats (88 dB/W) to decent levels.

http://www.tron-electric.co.uk/power-amplifiers/convergence-mono-amplifiers/

[anthonyTD]

And I agree!:)
As for the insults, I am not sure where they were,:scratch: but glad you took the time to explain your reasoning behind your thinking, sometimes thats all it takes...:)
Two completely separate mono amps in one case are at no disadvantage to two monoblocks!
Having unprovoked veiled insults hurled at you by a fellow trader is likely to result in a degree of abrasiveness, however, I accept Allen's apology and extend my own, in the spirit of the season and forum decorum. Sorry :(

[Reffc]

I can see both sides of the argument here. FWIW, Jez has made some very valid points, and the most important is to be careful not to compare apples with oranges. One clear advantage of using a monobloc design, or at least one clear example where it may be advantageous, is where you have a difficult loudspeaker load, a complex passive filter network. Even a SS amp with a quadrillion for the DF may be slightly disadvantaged in DF if the cable runs start to exceed a certain length (ok, not as much an impact as the filter but you get the drift). It is advantageous in such circumstances to place the amp closer to the speakers to minimise loop resistance and reactance to try and maximise things like damping factor. Also, I know of several people, fed up with picking up the local taxi firm on their speaker cable "antenna" that moved to monos to reduce RFI pick up. Well shielded signal interconnects are less prone to these RFI problems and despite forum myths, can be run over many metres from a decent pre before things like capacitance become problematical.

Horses for courses. There are practical reasons where one solution may be preferential to the other, but in principle, no reason why a single box can't provide exceptional SQ probably unable to be bettered by it's monobloc equivalent.

I agree with Charlie. If in the market for a really decent set of monos, beautifully made ones too, having heard the TRON Convergence monos in my system, they were exceptionally good, well engineered SS monos which are a clear no-brainer for the money and another UK artisan brand anyone'd be proud to own :)

[anthonyTD]

:)
I can see both sides of the argument here. FWIW, Jez has made some very valid points, and the most important is to be careful not to compare apples with oranges. One clear advantage of using a monobloc design, or at least one clear example where it may be advantageous, is where you have a difficult loudspeaker load, a complex passive filter network. Even a SS amp with a quadrillion for the DF may be slightly disadvantaged in DF if the cable runs start to exceed a certain length (ok, not as much an impact as the filter but you get the drift). It is advantageous in such circumstances to place the amp closer to the speakers to minimise loop resistance and reactance to try and maximise things like damping factor. Also, I know of several people, fed up with picking up the local taxi firm on their speaker cable "antenna" that moved to monos to reduce RFI pick up. Well shielded signal interconnects are less prone to these RFI problems and despite forum myths, can be run over many metres from a decent pre before things like capacitance become problematical.

[Arkless Electronics]

To get back to the thread... Krell. Probably my favourite amp brand if I couldn't use my own creations... followed by Audio research.

[monkey.nut]

I agree with Jez on this one. Meridian have been making 5 power amps in a single box for years e.g 558 and G55. You can use these as a 5 speaker surround amp or for more umph turn it into two bridged and a centre speaker amp. The 559 amp is actually two separate power amps in one box and that makes bridging them a lot easier. Each amp is truly separate with its own xformer and power supply but co-joined by the case so that it fits neatly into a 19" rack.

Therefore mono blocks do not = better sound and are just an alternative approach for reasons already mentioned above.

Crunch,

MN

[Haselsh1]

I fully understand a monoblock power amplifier not having to share a power supply so being fully independent from the other channel in almost every way unless the stereo equivalent is totally and utterly dual mono with dual power supplies but my experience of monoblocks is purely Audiolab mono's. I loved them. Dynamic, forceful bass, excellent midrange with a good degree of tonality and a sharp, crystal clear treble. Why did I sell them on...? Valves...!!

[337alant]

Ive owned a few different amps since the 70s and it was when I built my first stereo amp with a pair of LesW NCC200 amp boards I was quite blown away with the lift in SQ just before this amp I was using a pair of Rotel 960BX power amps and they were pretty good them selves but the NCC200 were significantly better.
I built and still have various versions of amps with the same boards
1, stereo amp with shared power supply
2, Stereo amp with separate supply but shared transformer.
3, Dual mono amp in one case
4, Dual mono with separate power supply for the 1st stage of the amplifier and separate supply for the output of the amplifier.
5, same as above 4 in 2 separate cases (Voyagers) also better quality components used in the actual NCC200 amplifier board themselves. anlong with matching components for both boards

So listening to the progressive builds of the same amplifier its clear to me that as you improve and separate the power supplies to amplifier it does bring subtle and IMO worthwhile improvement's. Also sepating the input stage with a regulated supply from the RAW current hungry output stage does make one of the significant differences :eyebrows:.
Whilst all 5 stages of this amplifier built do hold a similar sonic signature the sound stage grows more 3 dimensional, instruments become clearly separated, and the sound seem more effortless with subtleties that brings a big fat grin to my face anyway :D
The voyager mono blocks are the ones I use every day and £ for £ are an excellent power amplifier IMO of course :rolleyes:

I did do a little comparison of these amps just out of interest and gave them a score
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?33851-DIY-Voyager-power-amp-Build&p=614281#post614281

The Voyager amps
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?33851-DIY-Voyager-power-amp-Build&p=600208#post600208

Alan

[Yomanze]

Without a doubt, seperate power supplies for output stage and driver stage is worthwhile

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

[Arkless Electronics]

Without a doubt, seperate power supplies for output stage and driver stage is worthwhile

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

Yes indeed. This will make a big improvement in most cases. Separate supplies for the rest of the power amp other than the output stage would be a more accurate description of course..

[337alant]

Then there is also class D and the Hypex NC500 are said to be very good

http://www.nordacoustics.co.uk/

Alan

[anthonyTD]

Good post Alan. :)
A...
Ive owned a few different amps since the 70s and it was when I built my first stereo amp with a pair of LesW NCC200 amp boards I was quite blown away with the lift in SQ just before this amp I was using a pair of Rotel 960BX power amps and they were pretty good them selves but the NCC200 were significantly better.
I built and still have various versions of amps with the same boards
1, stereo amp with shared power supply
2, Stereo amp with separate supply but shared transformer.
3, Dual mono amp in one case
4, Dual mono with separate power supply for the 1st stage of the amplifier and separate supply for the output of the amplifier.
5, same as above 4 in 2 separate cases (Voyagers) also better quality components used in the actual NCC200 amplifier board themselves. anlong with matching components for both boards

So listening to the progressive builds of the same amplifier its clear to me that as you improve and separate the power supplies to amplifier it does bring subtle and IMO worthwhile improvement's. Also sepating the input stage with a regulated supply from the RAW current hungry output stage does make one of the significant differences :eyebrows:.
Whilst all 5 stages of this amplifier built do hold a similar sonic signature the sound stage grows more 3 dimensional, instruments become clearly separated, and the sound seem more effortless with subtleties that brings a big fat grin to my face anyway :D
The voyager mono blocks are the ones I use every day and £ for £ are an excellent power amplifier IMO of course :rolleyes:

I did do a little comparison of these amps just out of interest and gave them a score
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?33851-DIY-Voyager-power-amp-Build&p=614281#post614281

The Voyager amps
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?33851-DIY-Voyager-power-amp-Build&p=600208#post600208

Alan

[Sherwood]

I have just bought a pair of Nuprime STA-9 power amps which are a Hybrid Class A/Class D design.

http://www.nuprimeaudio.com/index.php/products/amplifiers-and-preamps/stereo-amps/sta-9.html

I had previously owned a Nuforce amp which was an earlier model from the same design team. Unfortunately it expired when I was working in northern Vietnam and was not cost-effective to repair.

A single amp would be adequate for most speakers but my Magneplanar 1.7 speakers are current thirsty fiends hence the use of two amps in monoblock mode. I am extremely pleased with their performance. In bridged mode they deliver around 300w RMS and are one of the few affordable amps to drive Maggies properly.

They have a valve like quality and compare well with my Art Audio Quintet valve power amp which whilst magnificent with most box speakers just can't provide the current for the Maggies.

Geoff

[Macca]

designed with enhanced even-order harmonic circuitry that mimics the most attractive features of tubed-amp sound without incurring tubes’ drawbacks and limitations

Jez won't be too keen ;). Price seems very reasonable for what you get. IIRC the old Nuforce amps were always criticised for being too clinical, I wonder if this approach is a counter to that?

[Sherwood]

designed with enhanced even-order harmonic circuitry that mimics the most attractive features of tubed-amp sound without incurring tubes’ drawbacks and limitations

Jez won't be too keen ;). Price seems very reasonable for what you get. IIRC the old Nuforce amps were always criticised for being too clinical, I wonder if this approach is a counter to that?

I would not have described my old Nuforce as clinical but there is no doubt that the new Nuprime is more valve like. Whilst being extremely smooth sounding the top end is clearly very extended. I guess even-order is the way to go!

Geoff

[sq225917]

One of the reasons that the ncc sound better as you split the psus is because the psrr of the various sections of the amps is crap.

Find an amp with 90db psrr and psu issues become far less meaningful.

[Arkless Electronics]

designed with enhanced even-order harmonic circuitry that mimics the most attractive features of tubed-amp sound without incurring tubes’ drawbacks and limitations

Jez won't be too keen ;). Price seems very reasonable for what you get. IIRC the old Nuforce amps were always criticised for being too clinical, I wonder if this approach is a counter to that?

Quite correct:D Distortion is distortion no matter what type. We're getting into the realms of guitar amplifiers by actually deliberately adding it....

[Arkless Electronics]

One of the reasons that the ncc sound better as you split the psus is because the psrr of the various sections of the amps is crap.

Find an amp with 90db psrr and psu issues become far less meaningful.

See my post #22....