MC v MM Cartridges is one better than the other by design?

[Paul-H]

Hi all

Excuse the probably stupid question but looking to get a new cartridge and it got me thinking

Apart from the obvious that is MC has a lower output voltage to MM and requires the correct Phono Stage are there any real practical differences between MM & MC

My amp supports both MM & MC but what else should I be considerin. It used to be suggested that MC was better than MM but going by the number of high quality MM cartridges around now I suspect that is no longer true, if it ever was.

So for a given price point say 2 to 3 hundred pounds would one be better over the other.

Thanks for any input on this

Paul

[Bigman80]

Hi Paul,

I've used a lot of budget MM carts and never really had any issue with sound quality until I got my hands on an Ortofon Vivo Red. This really opened my eyes in terms of quality. Everything sounded so much better. The best MM cart I owned was a Goldring 2100 which cost me £130 new. The Ortofon cost £150 used.

I then got hold of a Denon DL304 (?) Which is bar far the best cartridge I've personally heard. That cost the equivalent of £250 (I swapped a tonearm for it)

I'd say in me experience, go for the best used (low hours of course) MC you can afford.

The difference in my timeline has been surprising.

Those on here that have hi-end MM may have seen less of a difference between MM & MC. I'm sure they'll chime in.

Oliver.

Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk

[Arkless Electronics]

MC carts are superior to MM without doubt in my opinion, and that of the majority of enthusiasts.... Some say the Decca MM's will give them a good run for their money but they can be awkward to use and tracking can be marginal.
MC's generally have wider, flatter frequency response and are far less critical on loading than MM's. The main plus points to MM's being that they can, in some cases, have better tracking than MC's and they have removable stylus assemblies so new stylus time can be cheaper and easier.

MC's generally sound better in pretty much every area but especially in terms of "life" and dynamic contrast of the music, overall transparency and they seem to have a wider palette of tonal colours....

[Scooby]

I much prefer MCs. I still haven't heard an MM I'd be happy with. That said, I haven't heard the likes of the Technics EPC205 which gets a very good rep here and elsewhere. Quite a few MCs I've lived happily with though. One thing to bear in mind is the quality of the phono stage. MC is a much smaller signal so there's often more cost and skill in getting a good MC stage.

[Bigman80]

I much prefer MCs. I still haven't heard an MM I'd be happy with. That said, I haven't heard the likes of the Technics EPC205 which gets a very good rep here and elsewhere. Quite a few MCs I've lived happily with though. One thing to bear in mind is the quality of the phono stage. MC is a much smaller signal so there's often more cost and skill in getting a good MC stage.
The MC stage is a good point. I was also happy with my MC stage in the Sony TA730ES and then I bought a SUT from Walpurgis and now I wouldn't go back lol. It's an expensive passion this analogue business.

Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk

[Arkless Electronics]

I much prefer MCs. I still haven't heard an MM I'd be happy with. That said, I haven't heard the likes of the Technics EPC205 which gets a very good rep here and elsewhere. Quite a few MCs I've lived happily with though. One thing to bear in mind is the quality of the phono stage. MC is a much smaller signal so there's often more cost and skill in getting a good MC stage.

A good point yes! It's considerably easier and cheaper to make a MM phono stage to a certain standard than a MC one... Not that it would effect my choice of cart.

Personally, I would say that if you are really serious about good sound from vinyl then you WILL be using a MC cartridge. MM's are ok for budget systems and DJ'ing...

[struth]

Dont think the necessary outcome is just as simple as which is better designed but more what suits your system and your tastes. Maybe pocket too lol. I like a decent mm tbh, and think it does enough right to keep me happy, without too many costs and setup troubles.

[Firebottle]

...... are there any real practical differences between MM & MC

The nature of an MC cartridge has less 'moving mass' internally, so can respond better and more quickly to the mechanical movements of the stylus/cantilever.

[Bigman80]

I have to say, every time I've "upgraded" a part in my setup, it has improved the sou d considerably. I am sure that as you reach a certain point the difference becomes negligible.

I'm never gonna have room or money for £20k speakers etc

I'm Trying to optimise the system for the space and budget I have.

just try to get the best equipment you can afford (best value as price doesn't pertain to performance) and the most suitable equipment for the listening space.

Can't go far wrong with that mantra surely ?



Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk

[walpurgis]

You need a pair of Tannoys mate :D.

Buy Bev's System 800's. You like those! :thumbsup:

[Bigman80]

Are they the horizontal jobbies ?

Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk

[walpurgis]

No. Use them any way up.

Here's my last pair (I've had several).

http://i64.tinypic.com/f8dif.jpg

Damn good speakers!

[Bigman80]

No. Use them any way up.

Here's my last pair (I've had several).

http://i64.tinypic.com/f8dif.jpg

Damn good speakers!
I like them, however at £325 collect only from Portsmouth I don't think they'll end up in my front room any time soon lol

I haven't even recieved the missions yet and you've got me looking at different speakers lol



Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk

[danilo]

IMO :-) MM are quite good, certainly better imo, than they used to be when Vinyl was in it's heyday.
MC are better sounding. No arguement whatsoever.. usually under ideal conditions ;)
There Are issues though. Firstly being the cost of the cart, And it's extreme fragility. Typically one needs pay Large for a retip alone.
then the Required quality of All the gear following. Can't soar like an eagle when in a flock of Turkeys.
Is there needs mention of the typically worn pressed piece of Plastic that all the sounds are on ??
My view is that for vinyl one runs into practical constraints fairly early on.
Not much joy in reducing one's Vinyl collection into mostly unsatisfactory... wasn't for me.

[Bigman80]

IMO :-) MM are quite good, certainly better imo, than they used to be when Vinyl was in it's heyday.
MC are better sounding. No arguement whatsoever.. usually under ideal conditions ;)
There Are issues though. Firstly being the cost of the cart, And it's extreme fragility. Typically one needs pay Large for a retip alone.
then the Required quality of All the gear following. Can't soar like an eagle when in a flock of Turkeys.
Is there needs mention of the typically worn pressed piece of Plastic that all the sounds are on ??
My view is that for vinyl one runs into practical constraints fairly early on.
Not much joy in reducing one's Vinyl collection into mostly unsatisfactory... wasn't for me.
Agreed that the sound quality can be impaired by the vinyl itself but I would imagine people who are spending big on equipment wouldn't be playing worn out records ?

How many people here have overpaid for a proper MiNT condition vinyl ? I know i have.

MC does force you to push on and upgrade but if you're not trying to extract the best sound from it what not just go for CD or FLAC ?

It's a very rewarding experience IMO.

Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk

[Wakefield Turntables]

I would say that I like certain cartridges from certain cartridge designs. My favourites are :-

Moving Coil - Ortofon Cadenza black / Silver Meister SPU
Moving Magnet - Shure M55E with JICO SAS stylus and Snakewood body
Moving Iron - Decca Maroon

It's horses for courses and I select a cartridge depending upon my mood.

[Clive]

My take is:

MCs are generally more expensive than MMs Compare simarly priced MCs an MMs.

How much of the difference is down to tip profile of the usually more pricey MC?

As a generalisation I'd say MMs do bass better but MCs do aireyness better.

[helma]

Experiencing great tracking and sound with fancy profiles in MM cartridges, hearing an MC cartridge with a bonded elliptical stylus beat the pants of them all was a bit of a revelation. I realized what I always thought was "vinyl sound" was MM sound. There's a couple sins most (but not all) MM cartridges fall prey to, and being so picky about loading doesn't help. I find it a bit ironic generally the people fussing most about loading are MC users, while in truth MM cartridges are a lot more sensitive to it, and not only to resistive but also capacitive loading.

I'm using a tonearm with changeable headshells, so I have an MC cartridge I really like (well actually several but you know how it goes) and which I use most of the time, then when playing records in more questionable condition I switch to a heavy tracking MM cartridge for which I have several styli I bought for a good price. I don't like to be that picky about my records, part of the fun for me is the ability to buy very cheap records in shitty condition and actually play them without worrying about equipment. That MM cart is also an excellent performer by it's own right and can do justice to good sounding records.

All that said, doing it all over again, I might be tempted to stop on the very first MM cartridge I ever heard, and one that just happened to be a very even handed performer... enter the AT91, or AT3600 as it was known as back then. Actually I think it was rebranded as Pioneer but anyway... thinking of all the money I could've saved... :doh:

[walpurgis]

If you haven't before. Find yourself a circa 1970 ADC 10E Mk.IV and then you may revise your opinions about magnetic types. They compete capably against very decent MCs for neutrality and transparency.They also have extended bass without 'bloat'. Colourations are low too.

[Clive]

Not exactly an MM....but you'd struggle to prise my London Reference from my whilst there's breath in my body.

[CageyH]

The Technics EPC-U205 certainly gives my (budget) MC cartridges a good run for their money.
I think that the MCs are probably just a whisker ahead, but as the law of diminishing returns kicks in, how much do I have to spend to get better?

The AT33PTG/II is a good example of an inexpensive MC cartridge (as long as you shop around) which compares on price and sound quality to the likes of the 2M Black, and in my opinion is better.