speaker cable selection

[Longmanjon]

hi guys,

I have a new system which I getting used to, and wondered if there is a type of speaker cable which suits particular systems better. I am using a Simaudio Moon Neo Ace al in one and a pair of dynaudio contour s3.4 speakers. So far I tried some old chord epic which I found a bit cold and flat, and now trying some tellurium q black which sounds nicer all round.
I suppose I want to understand if there is a type of cable which I should try based on the systems specs below, as im not too technical.

Simaudio Neo Ace
Configuration Stereo
Power Supply Transformer 250VA
Power Supply Capacitance 20,000μF
Class Of Operation – Amplifier Class A/B
Single-ended inputs 2 (RCA) pairs
Mini-jack input 1 (1/8”)
Input Sensitivity 370mV – 3.0V RMS
Input Impedance 22,100Ω
Preamplifier / Subwoofer output 1 (RCA) pair
Headphone output 1 ( 1/4” Stereo TRS)
Output Power @ 8Ω 50 Watts per channel
Output Power @ 4Ω 85 Watts per channel
Gain 37dB
Signal-to-noise Ratio 100dB @ full power
Frequency Response 10Hz - 80kHz +0/-3.0dB
Crosstalk@ 1kHz -100dB
Intermodulation Distortion 0.005%
Total Harmonic Distortion (20Hz-20kHz @ 1W) 0.02%
Total Harmonic Distortion (20Hz-20kHz @ 50W) 0.02%
Remote Control Full-Function (CRM-3)
Display Type OLED
Power Consumption @ idle 44 watts
Power Consumption @ Standby 11 watts

Dynaudio Contour S3.4

Sensitivity: 86 dB (2,83 V/1 m)
IEC Power Handling: 270 W
Impedance: 4 Ohms
Frequency Response: 35 Hz – 25 kHz (± 3 dB)
Box Principle: 2-way bass-reflex
Crossover Frequencies: 2000 Hz

[walpurgis]

The Tellurium Q Black is well liked I believe. Not tried it.

Have you experimented with interconnect cables? They can have as much influence on the sound you get as the speaker cables do. I personally favour pure copper cored leads, but it's all down to preferences.

[Macca]

AFAIK there are no real guidelines as to speaker cable. Sometimes swapping it out makes no difference, sometimes the difference is significant. There must be a technical reason for this but no-one seems to be sure what it is.

What works fine in one system will spoil the sound in a different system. It is very odd.

Some suggest that as a basic rule thicker cable will sound better than thinner cable, if the thinner cable is not adequate for purpose, otherwise it is just trial and error.

[Longmanjon]

thanks Macca,

It is interesting, dynaudio used to recommend using ocos cable with their speakers which was a fairly thick copper cable but now don't advise any specific cables.

the other point which has been made before is about spending 10-15% of the system value on cables, im not sure if this is just marketing bull or good science. I am tempted to invest in some tellurium q black ultra at some point.

[struth]

As Martin says, you just often have to try things. TQB is good stuff and you might find it hard to beat.

A few of us have started using this. https://www.audiovisualonline.co.uk/product/2341/fisual-hollywood-dark-twist-screened-speaker-cable/

Seems nice cable and still on offer. Got some on one of my systems...just add plugs of choice

[Longmanjon]

it is true.

that cable suggestion is interesting, considering the low cost and good reviews. seems a steal, how is?

[Macca]

the other point which has been made before is about spending 10-15% of the system value on cables, im not sure if this is just marketing bull or good science. I am tempted to invest in some tellurium q black ultra at some point.

It is bullshit. I paid £1500 for my system bits but the new cost would be £10K. So do I spend a grand on cables or £150? Or do I just try the stuff I already have lying around until I find the one that matches best?

The latter, clearly.

re the TQ cable it is either loved or loathed. The theory advanced to me is that it is suited to modern speaker designs that can sound a bit 'hot' with some equipment. The TQ 'calms' this down.

If your speakers are an older design, or your system is very well matched and not forward sounding, it will calm it down too much, and you will think it the worst cable ever.

Not my theory and I've not tried any TQ myself (too expensive for me for a bit of wire) but food for thought.

[walpurgis]

Some suggest that as a basic rule thicker cable will sound better than thinner cable.

Funny thing is, after having used fairly substantial speaker cable for many years, I'm now using something relatively thin. Transparent Audio 'Musicord', it looks like hairdryer lead, but is probably the best sounding cable I've come across and it was one of the cheaper options in Transparent range. Very hard to track any down these days.

[Arkless Electronics]

Beware of thin cable, it can have significant resistance and therefore cause big changes to the sound due purely to this... as in "bell wire" or the single strand DNM stuff that used to be around (no idea if it still is). A friend once tried some of this wire and reported big differences but not sure if he liked it.... I came round with a multimeter and measured a loop resistance of over 1 Ohm! No wonder it sounded different!

[Longmanjon]

As Martin says, you just often have to try things. TQB is good stuff and you might find it hard to beat.

A few of us have started using this. https://www.audiovisualonline.co.uk/product/2341/fisual-hollywood-dark-twist-screened-speaker-cable/

Seems nice cable and still on offer. Got some on one of my systems...just add plugs of choice

Struth, which connectors did you get with the fisual Cable? For £20 it's worth a punt

[struth]

i didnt it was £2 a metre for cable. Just put plugs on that I had lying about. dunno if you can buy it with plugs on or not.

[unfairlane]

Beware of thin cable, it can have significant resistance and therefore cause big changes to the sound due purely to this... as in "bell wire" or the single strand DNM stuff that used to be around (no idea if it still is). A friend once tried some of this wire and reported big differences but not sure if he liked it.... I came round with a multimeter and measured a loop resistance of over 1 Ohm! No wonder it sounded different!

True. Most audiophiles seems to have no idea of what speakercables is about. Your amplifiers low-current secondary side will try to "breath" through these thin stranded & often overpriced junk most people uses. Even very small values of resistance here is easily audible for a moore skilled listener. First of all thinner wires kills dynamics and by that the low-end information.

Fun begins around 9awg solid core copper, be aware that the copper will need about one hour of heavy massage to open up.

[southall-1998]

I use VDH CS122 for the garden room system.

S.

[danilo]

Resistance is the Main (often Only) significant attribute of a speaker /power delivery cable of reasonable length...
10 gauge is of large enough capacity to have inconsequential resistance .. for most gear.
Your 50w amp driving 86 db speakers did surprise though.
More efficient speakers could be an upgrade worth considering IMO.

[Longmanjon]

Resistance is the Main (often Only) significant attribute of a speaker /power delivery cable of reasonable length...
10 gauge is of large enough capacity to have inconsequential resistance .. for most gear.
Your 50w amp driving 86 db speakers did surprise though.
More efficient speakers could be an upgrade worth considering IMO.


well it is actually 85w per channel, and they are similar to naim amps where they understate the power. so far even at half volume it pushes out plenty of power so I think im ok, but I get your point. ive always have a soft spot for dynaudios.

[Slawts]

I use VdH CS122 for the bass and 4mm Pirelli twin and earth for the treble. That's with an XTC POW 175 watter and KEF Reference 3.2's.

I tried it the other way round and it sounded slightly rough.

[hifinutt]

i have been using chord oddy and then chord epic for years . its certainly not cold and flat in the many systems i have had . very involving and dynamic in fact . i have just upgraded it to supertwin and epic

[Barry]

As a rule of thumb, the speaker cable loop resistance ought to be no greater than 5% of the nominal speaker impedance, i.e. no more than 0.5Ohm. The loop resistance of the cable will add to the output impedance of the driving amplifier so reducing the damping factor (the ability of the amplifier to absorb the back emf of the speaker - to stop the 'tail wagging the dog').

However the impedance curve of most speakers is far from flat, and the output impedance of the power amplifier will interact with the speaker impedance to modify the response at the speaker terminals. If the amp + speaker cable has a total impedance of 0.1Ohm, the response will be modified with a ripple of 0.1dB (which won't be noticed), if the impedence increases to 0.5Ohm, the ripple is increased to 1dB (again, unlikely to be noticed), but if the impedance becomes 1Ohm, the ripple will be 2dB, which could well be noticed.

To avoid these problems it is necessary to use speaker cables having a loop resistance of less than 0.1Ohm and an inductance of no more than ~3uH, i.e. use thick, twisted multi-strand cable. Suitable and reasonably priced cables are: QED 79-strand (2.5mm2 conductor cross section), and Van Damme 4mm2 or 6mm2.



In my system I use power 'monoblocks' located directly behind each speaker and connected to the speakers with cable < 1metre in length. The power amps themselves are connected back to the preamp using balanced-line interconnects (the preamp has a true balanced inputs and outputs, and the poweramps have balanced line inputs).

[Longmanjon]

thanks Barry, that is interesting and the technical information is very helpful to my question.
currently im using the fisual Hollywood which was suggested, and to me it is on a par with the TQ black and for the money is a bargain.
I did have some old linn k400 in the cupboard which I used when I demoed the Moon and they was surprisingly good, I think because it being a similar cable to the ones you have suggested with its large size.
I have also considered using the NVA LS6 as it also looks a good size cable and has got good reviews.

[icehockeyboy]

Had TQ Black.
Now use Cable Talk 3.1 at a fraction of the price.

Buggered if I can hear a difference.

[RichB]

I personally like NVA speaker cable. Others don't. Very transparent but seems to let the music through sufficiently without that artificial HF lift I find common amongst braided or twisted cables. Again, some like this, and prefer sparkle. I'll happily trade off sparkle for natural.

Choose your poison.

[Gazjam]

Can be hard to give absolute recommendations on speaker cable I think as imo cable can sound better or worse with different speakers.
Amp choice comes into it as well, so I tend to think of what would work with the combination of all three.

In my own case,
tried all sorts over the years, but settled on TQ Black which worked well with my Rega RS3's when I had them.
Change of speakers and the cable sounded a bit gash with my Edingdales, braided Cat5 cable sounding noticably better, more transparent.

The Ultra Black I use now is a different beast altogether, best I've heard in my system by quite a ways.
Might just be my final cable who knows.

But choosing can be a bit of a crapshoot, where do you start?
I'd try and hear as many different cables as you can in your own system, but the forum here can be a good guide and starting point as to what works and what doesn't.
And you don't need to spend a fortune to get good speaker cable...the Pro stuff like Van Damme, Mogami and the like can be very good.

[IslandPink]

I think a few audio components are genuinely superior, not just pros/cons/matching type 'better' and the TQ Ultra-Black is one of them. A lot of money but I have no idea how to DIY something as good after this, after years of using various types of DIY wire on many types of speaker.

[Bigman80]

As Martin says, you just often have to try things. TQB is good stuff and you might find it hard to beat.

A few of us have started using this. https://www.audiovisualonline.co.uk/product/2341/fisual-hollywood-dark-twist-screened-speaker-cable/

Seems nice cable and still on offer. Got some on one of my systems...just add plugs of choice
I have ordered a bit of this to try. Will update. Cheers grant.

Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk

[Longmanjon]

well interestingly enough I am sticking with the Linn k400 (split into single wire), as this is just as if not better than both the TQ black and fisual (both now up for sale) much to my surprise. I think this is in line with previous comments for other around the size of cable for the system I have.
I may try the nva ls6 at some stage as this is also a good size cable.

different strokes for different folks

[karma67]

ive just bought some Fisual Hollywood Dark Twist,it will do as a stop gap until such time as i can afford some NVA LS6.

[wee tee cee]

Ive read that Colin Wonfor has designed a number of new cables along with pre and power amps. Check out EWA =ELSDEN WONFOR AUDIO. He reckons his top of the range cables are better than the TQ Ultra black he designed.

Colins designs are really special bits of audio. I still have TQ BLUE/TQ BLACK running in my other systems. My main system has a TQ claymore at its heart. Ive tried TQ ULTRA black it was outstanding but I could only run to jumper lengths with close coupled mono blocks.

If money was no object.....

[Yomanze]

The Tellurium Q Black is well liked I believe. Not tried it.

Have you experimented with interconnect cables? They can have as much influence on the sound you get as the speaker cables do. I personally favour pure copper cored leads, but it's all down to preferences.

It is also 'well coloured' and can help in balancing a system to sound more natural by virtue of a softening effect & kindness to sibilance at the upper frequencies. Personally I would try some Van Damme 'HiFi' UP-LCOFC as, from what I can see, the ultimate of speaker cable best practice i.e. low capacitance, low resistance, some moderate inductance, and the biggie for some of the more esoteric cable designers & interesting that it's in Van Damme's catalogue: linear crystal 'OCC' methods, extremely low grain boundaries in the copper. I use some with my old late 70s Exposure amp as it fulfils the requirements of this potentially cranky amp.

[karma67]

well the fisual didnt last long! lol
it sounded very thin in my system,ive put the van damme hifi ofc back in :)

[struth]

I made up a set and tested it with some gear upstairs. I sounded quite good to me. Not really tried it since tbh a Ive been using the headphones mostly.

[karma67]

dont get me wrong its not bad,in fact very good for the money its just not as full bodied as the van damme,to me the van damme is more balanced,where as the fisual seems a bit top end bias.

[Bigman80]

well the fisual didnt last long! lol
it sounded very thin in my system,ive put the van damme hifi ofc back in :)
That doesn't bode well for my first trial tomorrow.

Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk

[Roy S]

I keep coming back to Talk 3

[jandl100]

re the TQ cable it is either loved or loathed. The theory advanced to me is that it is suited to modern speaker designs that can sound a bit 'hot' with some equipment. The TQ 'calms' this down.

If your speakers are an older design, or your system is very well matched and not forward sounding, it will calm it down too much, and you will think it the worst cable ever.

That's right, in my experience.

TQ Black is significantly laidback. I found it boring. And the sound is a bit 'manipulated' - it just sounds a bit weirdly wrong to me.
TQ Ultra is better balanced but still a bit on the smooth side. But in my view fell way short of justifying its price.

I've had lots of speaker cables, many excellent, but I use these now and think they are fab. Easily the best I have had. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=332068469747#ht_500wt_1251

They are Western Electric copper cable stripped from a closed telephone exchange! :D - and then decently terminated.

A bit of a fanboy thing, but I agree with their enthusiasm. http://jeffsplace.me/wordpress/?p=7469

I have a couple of audio buddies who put me on to these.
Amazing resolution, but not hyped up. Gorgeous tonal colours, but not 'coloured'. Amazing imaging.

Well, I loiks 'em. :lol:
They are sent from Hong Kong but arrive quickly.

[User211]

He is using Tannoy Westminster Royals though Jerry. Which are shite. According to me. Seriously I have never heard a pair sound good. Other Tannoys yes, but those? Not for me.

I might still order the raw unterminated WE cable though since it is mega cheap.

[jandl100]

He is using Tannoy Westminster Royals though Jerry. Which are shite. According to me. Seriously I have never heard a pair sound good. Other Tannoys yes, but those? Not for me.

I might still order the raw unterminated WE cable though since it is mega cheap.

But Justin, all Tannoys are a bit marmite, we both know that!

Nonetheless very fine speaker cables indeed!

[Nick]

I might still order the raw unterminated WE cable though since it is mega cheap.

You might want to be a little careful. Reading through Jeff Day's article he mentions the sudden proliferation of fake WE cable. The real stuff is pretty rare and more expensive. You could try the Duelund copy of the WE cable that is also rated highly and is pretty reasonably priced. I have some that I intend to press into service over the Xmas break