What does "well made" mean to you? [Archive]

Arkless Electronics

30-11-2016, 16:10

Stryder5

30-11-2016, 16:30

It must sound great, and be aesthetically pleasing.

Unfortunately both of these are subjective!

Gordon Steadman

30-11-2016, 16:36

Yup,

Sounds good and looks good but also, feels good to use. The quality of the controls, whilst they may be irrelevant to the sound, really add to the experience of using the equipment. Some of the good japanese amps just feel fantastic as the volume control is silky smooth yet well weighted and the switches are positive and smooth.

The first two are definitely subjective but hopefully, the quality feel will be appreciated by all. What's inside bothers me not at all - that's your job:)

rigger67

30-11-2016, 16:50

I remember being 14 or 15 and buying an Aiwa ghettoblaster because the opening mechanism of the cassette deck was dampened and therefore nice and smooth, soft and slow as silk ..

That was quality to me back then, rather than the flimsy "boing" you'd get on some other models as it spat out your tape.

I've got a tank of a Trio integrated in my PC system that weighs a ton, has a brushed steel front and really chunky knobs and dials and it OOZES quality.
Compare that to the Audiolab pre-amp I bought on eBay a couple of years ago only to send it back because one of the channels was iffy and the balance control came off in my hand.

I've owned a pair of Mission 780is for about 24 years and they still sound superb and look amazing. Not a single blemish anywhere on them.
They're quality.
The JBL Control Ones I've got in my kitchen system could be strapped to the outside of the Space Shuttle and they'd still play the Star-Spangled Banner at full blast on re-entry because they're quality.

It's the difference between anything that's built to last and something that's built down to a price.

Pieoftheday

30-11-2016, 16:52

I had a marantz pm8003 amp, built like a battleship,lovely to use controls,silky smooth volume knob,nice to use remote too,lovely chunky bit of kit, I didn't like it .

Macca

30-11-2016, 16:53

Well made for me should mean well made inside and out. Nothing to do with sound. I hate crappy cheap plasticky switches, that does my head in. This Krell amp I have now is built like a tank, but the power on/off button could have been taken off a child's 'speak and spell' machine. I've had worse, don't get me wrong, but you touch the power switch every time you use it, and for a high end item it just isn't sufficiently solid and chunky.

I also have a Linn LK100 amp, now that has a quality on/off button.

rigger67

30-11-2016, 16:55

Simplicity of design is important too.

It's the same with speech : I'd rather spend time with someone who didn't talk that much but when they did open their mouth, it was for good reason.

In hi-fi terms, something like the Tisbury Passive Pre-Amp* would be that taciturn but valuable friend :eyebrows:

*(I really want one if anyone's selling ?)

Firebottle

30-11-2016, 17:04

walpurgis

30-11-2016, 17:05

I like my women well put together! :eyebrows:

(not sure if that's thread drift or not :scratch: ;))

struth

30-11-2016, 17:10

As opposed to flung together but goes well?

IHP

30-11-2016, 17:14

Functional, classic, lineage, well defined, guaranteed future life. Quad !

struth

30-11-2016, 17:14

Personally i do like something well put together and looking engineered. It obviously helps if its ACTUALLY NICELY MADE INSIDE AS WELL. But great bulid quality(and by that im not talking bling)will help an average unit become a desirable product. A pioneer sa8100 will make more than a lot of better amps coz it looks great

Gordon Steadman

30-11-2016, 17:19

Haselsh1

30-11-2016, 17:22

I'm only interested in quality so any item should exude quality in bucketloads.

Gordon Steadman

30-11-2016, 17:27

Functional, classic, lineage, well defined, guaranteed future life. Quad !

Classic Quad agreed. I wonder if it's still true for the Chinese stuff!

Arkless Electronics

30-11-2016, 17:28

That's a good question Jez, with many possible answers.

I'd go along with the feel of the controls as being part of it.
Fit and finish of all external factors must rate highly in the scheme of things.
Personally I don't like to see what I consider as 'bog standard' control knobs.

If there are any photos of internals, or access is need for valve swapping for instance, then a tidy layout is always a sign of care and consideration with the build, though not necessarily an indication that it is going to sound good :eyebrows:

A certain feel of robustness can infer a good build quality, much subjective view of course though.

:)

"many possible answers" yep.... Sometimes different if from an engineers perspective and an end users as well! It should be interesting to see the range of answers given....

Example. One often sees something like "the internal layout is very neat with all components well spaced and parallel and very neat wire looms which smacks of quality...." etc but in fact it can be a bad idea to build something in this manner from an engineering POV as it means longer wire runs, more inductance, greater capacitive crosstalk between the loomed together wires etc.

Controls... Japanese makers were masters of making often bog standard cheap controls have a quality feel to them, by a variety of means.... but some genuinely top quality and very expensive controls can have a cheap "feel" to their operation, a bit of backlash in a source selector switch for example, even though it is built to far outlast the cheap but nice feeling one.... which one is the more "well made"?

Infinitely Baffled

30-11-2016, 17:37

To me, "well made" means well-assembled using fit-for-purpose materials. It doesn't imply "well designed", so well-made could still sound mediocre or even poor. It doesn't imply "well styled" either, so it could still have a disagreeable appearance even though well-made (though not if the disagreeable appearance is the result of poor workmanship). I don't think it even implies quality components (you know, the nicely weighted volume controls, smoothly-operating switches etc that we all love), though badly operating controls would militate against the "well-made" tag. Summary: components and materials of good, fit-for-purpose quality, allied to high quality assembly. Think Croft.

Of course "well-built" is desirable, but just by itself doesn't guarantee that you would want to buy or own the item. What we want is "well-built" combined with great electronic design, quality (sober) styling, fantastic sound, long guarantee, reasonable price etc. etc. Not much to ask, is it ...?
IB

Pieoftheday

30-11-2016, 17:41

Functional, classic, lineage, well defined, guaranteed future life. Quad !

Agreed, my little 306 ,after a tickle from Jez ,is as good as new, and works great,as for the way it looks,im 50/50

Scooby

30-11-2016, 17:52

I'd say it's important first and foremost that an item arrives well finished and not coming apart in transit. Some "cottage industry bits over the years have failed in this respect, looking like the hifi equivalent of a bad DIY-er's work. I'm all for small manufacturers but when selling a new product it can't be poorly finished or falling apart.

I'd also expect components to be at leat up to the job and preferably over-specified. Of course, I rely on people like Jez to keep me right on that, as I have limited knowledge. I read his thoughts on a TA-F730ES recently and store it away in the memory banks.

Joe

30-11-2016, 17:58

As long as it sounds good and isn't going to fall apart after a couple of years, it's 'well made' to me. Looks don't matter much, as long as the casework is black. I couldn't give a monkey's about the innards, because I'm never going to see them.

Macca

30-11-2016, 18:02

I find the 'inside' comments interesting.

How do you know? Do you actually have the top off equipment before you buy?

1. Sound
2. Appearance
3. Feel.

My top three. The only time I would see the inside is if it goes wrong.

Amps and cd players you can almost always find a topless photo on line, speakers you can often find a cut-away diagram showing how they are put together. Or if they are vintage there are usually pics on line where someone has had them apart. I figure if the resource is there, why not use it?

The Black Adder

30-11-2016, 18:05

Designed well, not forced.

Sometimes design over function can be one of those 'feature creep' things that happen when an original design is exactly right and the final release is an over complicated, forced product.

In respect of things like neat internals is nice but can be misleading in regards to sonic integrity. So, sometimes well made kit can be a bit messy inside because of it's optimised design, 'every corner can be straight' but then there are rats nests of builds that can simply be awful and over complicated and where it's obvious that the original design has been gone to pot and so it gets optimised over time without spending money changing the original layout to suit.

A long time ago I used to think neat (in it's most clinical respect, eg. Naim) = quality but I've been proven wrong plenty of times over the years.

A quality build should show the passion and an attention to detail of the designer, every area from internal wiring, it's components being the best that can be (which can be updated) to fascia layout and the casing quality.

Quality to me also includes the designer. They should be approachable, offer constructive support, fault diagnosis and should be open to fix or update the unit regardless of it's age or condition.

southall-1998

30-11-2016, 18:05

The small bruiser power-amps, like the Linn Klout and Monarchy SM-70 Pro. Both have exceptional build quality and feel heavy!

Edit: Another vote for Quad.... 306/303/405 etc.

S.

Pieoftheday

30-11-2016, 18:23

Had a pair of Chinese made Castle Knight speakers,very attractive,i thought,lovely cabinets and sounded great,drivers on both speaker's failed twice ,so they were both well made and not at the same time

loveoscar

30-11-2016, 18:28

Being a newbie here I'll get my 2 cents worth in. Well made to me means RELIABILITY. Its nothing to do with materials, design, sound quality and looks although all these things do mostly go in tandem.

Firebottle

30-11-2016, 18:35

Quality to me also includes the designer. They should be approachable, offer constructive support, fault diagnosis and should be open to fix or update the unit regardless of it's age or condition.

+1

User211

30-11-2016, 18:52

I've only owned a few things I consider to be well built.

Best is my custom built Apogee Duetta Interstella. One because I was deeply involved in how they were made, and that leads to a good sense of pride. Two because the structural integrity is extreme for a planar - I know of no planar that comes close in terms of strength and rigidity apart from Apogee Advance 7s and maybe some other Graz efforts. Three because to my eye the finish on the speakers and stands is fantastic. It is a visually stunning design, too, which always helps towards appreciating something.

Basically it is usually hand built, fully hardwired stuff that makes the grade for me for things like valve amps. The thought of someone sitting there with a soldering iron putting those sort of things together is a lot more appealing that an automated circuit board stuffer.

Quality materials and components all help. But that touch of crazy design and "hand builtness" makes things like ElectronLuv gear really stick out as top of the field.

Gordon Steadman

30-11-2016, 18:54

Amps and cd players you can almost always find a topless photo on line, speakers you can often find a cut-away diagram showing how they are put together. Or if they are vintage there are usually pics on line where someone has had them apart. I figure if the resource is there, why not use it?

I wouldn't bother as it's not on my list:)

petrat

30-11-2016, 19:17

Japanese. Their attention to detail and construction .... Leben, Shindo, high-end Sony, Luxman, Accuphase, Marantz, etc. There is such a clear pride in the workmanship. Whoever designed and built it actually cared. TBH, I can't really have any pride in owning something that has been 'value engineered' into mediocrity. As Clarkson said, when reviewing a shoddy yank-tank "Five thousand parts, all supplied by the lowest bidders".

sumday

30-11-2016, 20:39

1970s Yamaha kit seems to have a certain undateable style...great build too.
I guess they finally realised this about 5 years back with the AS range.....pity the controls are plastic though.

NIGE.

AlfaGTV

30-11-2016, 21:51

To me "well made" is easily recognized upon first contact. Its almost all about the tactile feel of the material, controls and functions.
Prime example of well made:
SME V, IV and 3XX tonearms.
iPhone since 4 and up to my latest 6, yes i know some of you wont agree...
Luxman amps from the mid 80's from their more expensive series, like the 5XX-series.

Examples of not so well made:
Luxman amps of the early 90's regardless of series.
McIntosh amps. Nice but so horribly let down by a bastard remote from China.
MSB stuff. You pay dearly for a lot of sound quality, like the McIntosh stuff. But how can you live with two completely different displays on the transport and DAC? Looks like somebody dove into the spare parts bin and found some leftovers. And yes, some horrid universal remote from China is used here too...

Gazjam

30-11-2016, 23:02

+1

+2

Arkless Electronics

01-12-2016, 01:00

And I'll +3 that :)

Yomanze

01-12-2016, 08:56

I guess that in hi fi as in other areas of manufacturing it could mean different things to different people....

Technically proficient? measurements etc?

Expensive components? "Boutique" components?

Appearance and styling?

Neatness of internal layout?

Being built to withstand considerable physical abuse without malfunctioning?

"it's an appearance thing, that look of "camera finish" which exudes class" (maybe even if it's done by the innards being nowt special to keep the price down?)

None of the above? All of the above?

Other stuff?

I thought it could make for an interesting discussion:)

For me, it's pretty much entirely what's inside the box.

Having a bling case, with off-the-shelf circuits & space inside, is nothing to do with it. Richard @ LFD puts it in a good way, to paraphrase: 'why produce great boxes and average chocolates, when with a bit of thought, you can produce the reverse?'

Also, I think "well made" in HiFi should equate to two things: durability / reliability and good sound.

struth

01-12-2016, 09:35

Na, its all about the box;)

RothwellAudio

01-12-2016, 10:00

'why produce great boxes and average chocolates, when with a bit of thought, you can produce the reverse?'

Probably because it's the box which the potential customer sees first and first impressions count. Also, average chocolates instead of great chocolates result in more profit.
It's easy for engineers to get wrapped-up in clever circuit design but the end user probably has no comprehension of circuit subtleties but they can recognise posh/heavy casework when they see it. Unfortunately for small manufacturers, a classy look at an affordable price is a lot easier if you have the economy of scale that Yamaha/Technics/Rotel/whoever enjoy. Achieving the same effect in small quantities makes the price sky rocket.

There is an alternative viewpoint which used to be widely held in a niche within the hi-fi market and seems to be gaining some ground in the guitar effects market, and that is "it looks so terrible it must be the work of a mad genius and sound fantastic". However, I don't think that making things which look terrible gets you very in the hi-fi market these days.

Firebottle

01-12-2016, 10:54

"it looks so terrible it must be the work of a mad genius and sound fantastic".

:lol:

Audio Al

01-12-2016, 10:58

Something made by a reputable company Who appreciate their customers and treat them with respect ,
Produce a product built from quality components at a affordable price ,
Deliver on time and deal with problems straight away :)

walpurgis

01-12-2016, 10:59

Something made by a reputable company Who treat their customers with respect ,
Produce a product built from quality components at a affordable price ,
Deliver on time and deal with problems straight away :)

Must be Quad then. :)

prestonchipfryer

01-12-2016, 12:12

Quad does it for me. 33, 34, 405, FM3. All beautifully put together and so easy to keep running for many, many years. :)

sq225917

01-12-2016, 19:22

'Well made' to me combines many things, and has different meanings for different markets. For hifi I'd expect the circuit to be elegant, the layout; hardwired, pcb or even dead bugged to be neat as well as functionally sound. I'd expect to see engineered fixings, no hot-glue, no sticky pads other than for cable ties, in fact no glue of any kind. I expect the soldering to be tidy, shiny and restrained in size. I expect the case work to be up to the task of being handled without showing signs of wear. I don't expect or accept product that looks like a prototype- unless it is. Anything else beyond that is a bonus. Visual appeal has to be commensurate with price, the more you charge the better it has to look.

People buy with their eyes, first and foremost, doesn't matter if its socks, multi-thousand pound bicycles or hifi. The function seldom if ever trumps appearance, its the primary barrier to entry.

Stratmangler

01-12-2016, 19:26

I thought quality was all to do with having a nice knob to fondle :eek:

Arkless Electronics

01-12-2016, 20:22

Probably because it's the box which the potential customer sees first and first impressions count. Also, average chocolates instead of great chocolates result in more profit.
It's easy for engineers to get wrapped-up in clever circuit design but the end user probably has no comprehension of circuit subtleties but they can recognise posh/heavy casework when they see it. Unfortunately for small manufacturers, a classy look at an affordable price is a lot easier if you have the economy of scale that Yamaha/Technics/Rotel/whoever enjoy. Achieving the same effect in small quantities makes the price sky rocket.

There is an alternative viewpoint which used to be widely held in a niche within the hi-fi market and seems to be gaining some ground in the guitar effects market, and that is "it looks so terrible it must be the work of a mad genius and sound fantastic". However, I don't think that making things which look terrible gets you very in the hi-fi market these days.

All very true.. my own limited "market research" into whether people would go for gear of hi end sound quality and circuit design but kept down to a more mid range price by using cheap utilitarian casework and finish was a no from most people... which surprised me at the time! I thought people would jump at the prospect of lets say an amp with £3k sonics and circuitry for £700... but it looks a bit shite :scratch: At least it was informative to know how high a priority aesthetics, WAF and "pride of ownership" (visually) are to most folks... all part of the learning curve:)

Yomanze

01-12-2016, 20:40

Certainly the hairshirt styled amps have a more limited audience, but they still do have one. Maybe sometimes it's done on purpose and definitely was during early Naim / Exposure days as a statement. On the bench, small scale, losing the bling can also helpfully limit demand, and get a different non mass-market audience.

danilo

01-12-2016, 20:40

All very true.. my own limited "market research" into whether people would go for gear of hi end sound quality and circuit design but kept down to a more mid range price by using cheap utilitarian casework and finish was a no from most people... which surprised me at the time! I thought people would jump at the prospect of lets say an amp with £3k sonics and circuitry for £700... but it looks a bit shite :scratch: At least it was informative to know how high a priority aesthetics, WAF and "pride of ownership" (visually) are to most folks... all part of the learning curve:)

Genuine Shame that.. Appearance trumps. Our Social Conditioning and sheer ignorance at work
That said... I've always had a hard time coming to grips with how a Pretty woman can also be an Imbecile .

rigger67

01-12-2016, 20:53

Quality service is always nice, whether from a multinational or a cottage industry.

I rate Celestion highly in this regard.
A few years ago, I was running an independent record shop here in Southampton (Essential Music on East for anyone who remembers ?) and we had a fat Denon integrated running two pairs of speakers for the in-store system and they were matching Celestions - I can't remember which model.
One of the bass units blew one day so I emailed them and asked whether I could source a replacement for it.
The next morning I received one by courier completely gratis with "Compliments from Celestion" on a hand-written headed slip.

Now, that's good service ... and also the reason I made my next speaker purchase Celestion.

Marco

01-12-2016, 20:54

"Well made", to me, means well-built/constructed, internally and externally... It's a physical thing. However, 'well-designed' is a rather different matter, and doesn't always necessarily occupy the same context! ;)

Marco.

Marco

01-12-2016, 20:59

People buy with their eyes, first and foremost, doesn't matter if its socks, multi-thousand pound bicycles or hifi.

The general public might do, Simon (or audiophile snobs), but when it comes to hi-fi, proper enthusiasts/purists, speakers aside, *ultimately* [and there's a reason why I'm highlighting that word] buy on sonic performance. At least I certainly do. I abhor, with a passion, any form of 'audiophile jewellery'!

Hi-fi equipment is to be listened to, not wanked over.... :exactly:

Marco.

struth

01-12-2016, 21:13

The general public might do, Simon (or audiophile snobs), but when it comes to hi-fi, proper enthusiasts/purists, speakers aside, *ultimately* [and there's a reason why I'm highlighting that word] buy on sonic performance. At least I certainly do. I abhor, with a passion, any form of 'audiophile jewellery'!

Hi-fi equipment is to be listened to, not wanked over....

Marco.

not a matter of jewelry tbh, but looking good is ultimately important, nay extremely important to vast majority of folk. Gone are the days when you had room to yourself where you could just stick things, no matter how they look. Most folk are married with kids and small house etc. it has to look decent in the livingroom o its not gonna be there. Its not wife ruling the roost either, its being fair to others imo. The nicer the better, without being blingy too. If you look at a nicely fettled TT and then one put together by a mad scientist you will see my point :) ..maybe :scratch:
:D

Marco

01-12-2016, 21:21

Gone are the days when you had room to yourself where you could just stick things, no matter how they look.

Are they? Not here they're not! :ner:;)

I know where you're coming from and agree, but with hi-fi, for me and I suspect a few other 'purists', function will *ultimately* always be more important than form. I've always seen hi-fi equipment merely as a 'tool' to perform a particular task, not an ornament to be admired - and that task is to reproduce music to the highest possible standard :)

So what I want to be paying for most, is what's 'under the hood'!! Not a 'fancy dress'...

Of course, if I had the choice of two equally superb sounding components, one that looks like a million dollars, and the other like a dog's dinner, it doesn't take a genius to guess which one I'd go for! Otherwise though, I'd take the 'ugly duckling' every time... ;)

Marco.

struth

01-12-2016, 21:30

Well, we are different.If it looks crap, then i wont like it much. Maybe a bit like your car that you keep in minty nick and are always getting it washed etc. Obviously this nice extra quality costs a bit more so one has to cut ones cloth. well i do, but at least it looks smart enough. If it didnt it would be out, and Ive no wife now to make me see it that way :D

Marco

01-12-2016, 21:46

Well, we are different.If it looks crap, then i wont like it much.

Sure we're different, and that's cool, but for me I think it's important not to lose sight of the primary function of any piece of hi-fi equipment. How do you think you'd be able to live with it, or be encouraged to use it, if it just looked nice but sounded shit? ;)

Maybe a bit like your car that you keep in minty nick and are always getting it washed etc. Obviously this nice extra quality costs a bit more so one has to cut ones cloth. well i do, but at least it looks smart enough. If it didnt it would be out, and Ive no wife now to make me see it that way...

Lol - I have a wife, and fortunately she's largely 'in tune' with my passions, as it were :eyebrows:

I understand your car analogy, but I also just like keeping things I've paid a lot of money for in good condition, so that's a big part of why my car is minty... I just look after my stuff, that's all. I also like clean things and can't abide grease or grime. Trust me, and Del will tell you if don't believe me, I clean and maintain our new wood burner every morning, just as much as I do the car! :eek:

Marco.

Gazjam

01-12-2016, 21:55

Jez,
make summit that looks at least 10% different to what "A N Other" is doing (i.e...internal switchgear may be great, but external casework is shoddy...J Kenny I'm looking at you) then your halfway there.

Unfair, but just how it is really...
First stabs at it...put your designs in good but commonly available casework. (i.e. Keeps your overheads down)

Bit of success...Sell a fee units?
invest in a 3rd party case manufacturer....subhective appearance is important, especially when selling to the uniniciated!

sq225917

01-12-2016, 22:01

The general public might do, Simon (or audiophile snobs), but when it comes to hi-fi, proper enthusiasts/purists, speakers aside, *ultimately* [and there's a reason why I'm highlighting that word] buy on sonic performance. At least I certainly do. I abhor, with a passion, any form of 'audiophile jewellery'!

Hi-fi equipment is to be listened to, not wanked over.... :exactly:

Marco.

So no matter how ugly something was you'd give it a fair crack of the whip?

I doubt you really would. Like most people me included, acceptable visual appeal is a serious barrier. It doesn't mean we want audio jewellery just that we'd stick a resistor in a turd and call it an acceptable pre-amp.

walpurgis

01-12-2016, 22:16

So no matter how ugly something was you'd give it a fair crack of the whip?

Some of us really don't care or even like ugly or weird looking gear.

Marco

01-12-2016, 22:22

So no matter how ugly something was you'd give it a fair crack of the whip?

It depends on what it is and how ugly you're talking about... :D

Don't forget that a lot of kit can be hidden away inside a cabinet or whatever, so there's no need to look at it at all, as long as it works! If it's a bit of a 'growler', double-bag it before you USE it, just like you'd do with something else... :eyebrows:

Let me answer your question by saying that if I had a load of kit that was as bogging as a badger's arse, but sounded amazing, I'd use the money I'd save on all the superfluous 'bling' found on the fancy-looking stuff, by spending it on a nice-looking cabinet that hid it all, so I'd get the best of both worlds!! :lol:

Marco.

AlfaGTV

02-12-2016, 06:49

Basically i'd be perfectly willing to sacrifice a few percent of audio quality given that the option had a great user interface, fast response and a "well made" surface that adds to pride of ownership.

Quality is another thing in my book, and that would refer to longevity, ease of maintenance and a good design both internally and UX wise.

But a dogs dinner reflects to much on the execution of a product as well as the professionalism behind and i would never feel confident about it...

Marco

02-12-2016, 11:28

I should point out that any (great sounding) "dog's dinner" I was buying would only be acceptable from a small trader, not from any large, mainstream manufacturer. Also, in reality, said "dog's dinner" would be expertly 'screwed together' and 100% safe and reliable, but simply housed in a utilitarian looking case.

That done, I'd be more than happy to own it, especially if it sonically outperformed some blinged-up piece of audio jewellery, designed to appeal to badge snobs or those who treat their hi-fi equipment primarily as an ornament for ogling at... ;)

Marco.

Arkless Electronics

02-12-2016, 13:13

Personally what I'd most like to do product wise is to build "dogs dinner" looking equipment that thrashes anything anywhere near the price on sound quality... It would be well made but not appear it to lay persons not examining the innards, which is the bit you are mainly paying for. Unfortunately I'm forced to limit what I can do in terms of performance in order to pay for a bling case 'cos that's what people want....Pity. For my own use, most equipment doesn't even have casework! The circuitry just lays on the carpet... or I may build it into a really naff cheap case... I genuinely couldn't care less what it looks like as it's a tool to reproduce music and nothing more... but I'm in a small minority on that.

Gordon Steadman

02-12-2016, 13:26

RothwellAudio

02-12-2016, 13:31

At the last hi-fi show I attended I was "wowed" by big/shiny/heavy/blingy bits of kit in nearly every room. It was a bit depressing in some ways because I could imagine a typical punter's reaction when faced with one of those products sitting next to one of mine. There's a chance that the blingy boxes contained some very ill-conceived electronics of dubious design but there's no denying the wow factor when you see them.
Fortunately, there's a world of difference between shuffling round a hi-fi show and actually making a purchase. In a dealer's showroom where there's a chance of comparing different bits of kit (and their prices) the less blingy stuff has a chance. You still need a product that's smart enough to look professional to inspire some confidence though. That's not trivial without the benefit of large(ish) scale production.

Macca

02-12-2016, 13:40

. For my own use, most equipment doesn't even have casework! The circuitry just lays on the carpet... or I may build it into a really naff cheap case... I genuinely couldn't care less what it looks like as it's a tool to reproduce music and nothing more... but I'm in a small minority on that.

I like to see good looking well built cases on equipment, but not if I'm paying for it. I don't want it spread across the carpet though, that's going a bit far, but a cheap naff case is fine by me. I agree that this is a minority opinion. And some will have to take into account WAF so even if they don't care personally they still need it to 'look good' in the living room.

Yomanze

02-12-2016, 14:05

When you close your eyes, only one thing matters. Well two things, one of which is likely the girlfriend or wife complaining. :D

Hats off to mine though her Mum mentioned that my Exposure III preamp was 'a bit ugly', but my girlfriend said "but Mum you must hear it." She's a keeper. ;)

Arkless Electronics

02-12-2016, 14:13

You'd be in an even smaller minority if all equipment was like that.

My brother used to test stuff by asking me to put my finger 'just there'!

I did get a nasty shock once which worried him a bit but didn't seem to stop the experiments.

I like to see good looking well built cases on equipment, but not if I'm paying for it. I don't want it spread across the carpet though, that's going a bit far, but a cheap naff case is fine by me. I agree that this is a minority opinion. And some will have to take into account WAF so even if they don't care personally they still need it to 'look good' in the living room.

May I draw your attention gentleman to the phrase "for my own use" regarding circuit boards on carpet etc!!

I have a SS MC only phono stage in the pipeline which, will be available after the hybrid pre amp that's due any time now, and I may offer that as either bling looking or dogs dinner looking for a large saving but with identical sound....

Gordon Steadman

02-12-2016, 14:52

Maybe a smiley would have been a good idea:lol:. Clearly I wouldn't expect anything to be sold like that.

anthonyTD

02-12-2016, 15:08

Well made in my opinion;
Something that has clearly had much thought, and time given to its functional, and physical design.
Something that not only performs exceptionaly, but is also pleasing, and interesting to behold.
Something that will stand the test of time, in function, and beauty.
A...

Marco

02-12-2016, 15:21

Is that you describing me again, mate? :D

Marco.

eksiil

02-12-2016, 15:25

"well made" to me carries an undertone of trust. what something looks like matters a lot less than knowing it is likely to work as it should & can be readily serviced if necessary.

anthonyTD

02-12-2016, 15:56

Aye, if you like!:D
Is that you describing me again, mate? :D

Marco.

Macca

02-12-2016, 15:59

May I draw your attention gentleman to the phrase "for my own use" regarding circuit boards on carpet etc!!

..

I would certainly consider circuit boards on the carpet if the savings were significant. My house already scores zero on the WAFometer so it doesn't really matter in that respect.

Clive197

02-12-2016, 16:13

Well made, IMO concerns 'Fit & Finish' which usually gives pride of ownership.

Arkless Electronics

02-12-2016, 16:15

I would certainly consider circuit boards on the carpet if the savings were significant. My house already scores zero on the WAFometer so it doesn't really matter in that respect.

Oh I can probably beat you on that score :D

Macca

02-12-2016, 16:18

Oh I can probably beat you on that score :D

Challenge accepted :)

struth

02-12-2016, 16:18

Is that you describing me again, mate? :D

Marco.

Sure as hell wiznae me anyways;)

Arkless Electronics

02-12-2016, 16:28

Challenge accepted :)

My avatar is part of my "dining room" ..... My flat has been described as an electronics factory with a bed and fridge in it.... :eyebrows:

Yomanze

02-12-2016, 17:53

Ha ha Geoff / Walpurgis is right up there too with his radio shack, sorry, home. :D

My eyes watered when I read how much gear he has.

Macca

02-12-2016, 17:58

walpurgis

02-12-2016, 18:00

Dunno if you mean my signature, but that's only part of my collection. :eek:

Yomanze

02-12-2016, 18:18

Dunno if you mean my signature, but that's only part of my collection. :eek:
No from a gear list thread I remember from a while back. :D

Arkless Electronics

02-12-2016, 18:19

A fridge? Ooh mister la dee da, life of bloody luxury your living there.

I don't have any test equipment but I have more kit than a shop. My place has been described as looking like 'The back room in a failed hi-fi dealership.'

I did once have a bird round who worked for EMI, she said it reminded her of a recording studio. Which inclined me to think EMI must have gone pretty low rent with studio time.

Sounds similar.... and I'll raise you a room used solely for storing electronic components and dead chassis for spares... and my back stairs have about a foot wide usable bit cos there's an item of hi-fi, pro audio or test gear on ever step. some bits a couple of storeys high.... so much old gear I could build "Troughline Henge"... and yer tell that to kids nowadays and they don't believe ya!:D

Macca

02-12-2016, 18:25

I could build Speakerhenge. :) Must get round to that actually.

Or a Tower of Babel from CD players.

Used to have hundreds of books piled up sides of the stairs for a few years but I finally cleared that up. Not thought about storing kit there...

Arkless Electronics

02-12-2016, 18:29

Arkless Electronics

02-12-2016, 18:32

Only the 10 pairs of speakers I can think of here....

Oh and 8 guitars, 2 guitar combos, bass combo, 4 x 12 bass cab.... and I have just an upstairs flat... do I win?:lol:

anthonyTD

03-12-2016, 09:25

Add to that;creaky floorboards, and a very worried tenant below!:eek::lol:
Oh and 8 guitars, 2 guitar combos, bass combo, 4 x 12 bass cab.... and I have just an upstairs flat... do I win?:lol:

Macca

03-12-2016, 10:48

Oh and 8 guitars, 2 guitar combos, bass combo, 4 x 12 bass cab.... and I have just an upstairs flat... do I win?:lol:

Damn! I only have 2 guitars (although possibly another arriving tomorrow) and a tiny little practice amp. I am forced to concede :)

Arkless Electronics

03-12-2016, 15:34

Damn! I only have 2 guitars (although possibly another arriving tomorrow) and a tiny little practice amp. I am forced to concede :)

You just need to apply yourself more to the issue Martin:D

Macca

03-12-2016, 15:37

You're older than me, you've had more time to accumulate.

Clive197

03-12-2016, 16:25

Hey guys, is this what's called thread drift?

Macca

03-12-2016, 16:36

Maybe a little.

Gordon Steadman

03-12-2016, 17:20

Damn! I only have 2 guitars (although possibly another arriving tomorrow) and a tiny little practice amp. I am forced to concede :)

If two isn't enough, just do what I do.....

make another one:D

Arkless Electronics

03-12-2016, 17:50

Same as my philosophy with amplifiers:D

Macca

03-12-2016, 19:24

Yes but I'm crap, I can't build anything. Even my airfix kits turned out rubbish. I don't really have any skill at all, in most countries of the world I'd have starved to death by now. I'm always in admiration of people who have a serious skill, that can make a guitar or an amp or repair an engine, perform surgery, whatever. If those people didn't exist, people like me would be screwed.