View Full Version : Which country in the 1970s made the best hifi components?
Wakefield Turntables
25-11-2016, 19:47
My vote goes for Japan.
walpurgis
25-11-2016, 20:12
How about Italy?
I like these Galactron products.
http://i63.tinypic.com/2zyahad.png
http://i67.tinypic.com/2cenjo1.jpg
http://i64.tinypic.com/mwtbtf.jpg
http://i68.tinypic.com/23mag5s.jpg
Made some decent gear did Galactron!
brian2957
25-11-2016, 20:16
That's a new one on me Geoff . I'll be having a look at that maker later .
My vote goes for Japan.
My Accuphase M-60 monos from1975 agree, with a big grin.
walpurgis
25-11-2016, 20:20
That's a new one on me Geoff . I'll be having a look at that maker later .
Yeah. I figured there'd be a few people that hadn't heard of Galactron.
For the time it was pretty impressive gear.
Wakefield Turntables
25-11-2016, 20:22
The US of A also produced some pretty landmark stuff, maybe No 2 behind Japan for me.
I'm also going to say Japan. Both on sound and looks.
McIntosh apart, I would overall go with Japan
dantheman91
25-11-2016, 21:28
British for me....
Wakefield Turntables
25-11-2016, 21:32
British for me....
Yes, some very nice Quad stuff produced in the 70's, my 405-2 is currently playing Soft Machine through my origial JR-149's!!
dantheman91
25-11-2016, 21:55
Yes, some very nice Quad stuff produced in the 70's, my 405-2 is currently playing Soft Machine through my origial JR-149's!!
Lovely.....
Excellent Taste Andrew...
:youtheman::youtheman::youtheman:
Britain.
Think about it...
USA - Mark Levinson, Audio Research, Dayton Wright, Magnaplanar
Japan - Accuphase, Nakamichi, Stax, and Sony and Teac R2Rs
UK - Quad, Decca, Garrard
Norway - Electrocompaniet
Switzerland - FM Acoustics, Thorens, Studer, Nagra
Germany - Braun, EMT
USA - Mark Levinson, Audio Research, Dayton Wright, Magnaplanar
Japan - Accuphase, Nakamichi, Stax, and Sony and Teac R2Rs
UK - Quad, Decca, Garrard
Norway - Electrocompaniet
Switzerland - FM Acoustics, Thorens, Studer, Nagra
Germany - Braun, EMT
I would add Radford and Tannoy to your UK list and Yamaha and Luxman to your Japan list.
anubisgrau
27-11-2016, 09:08
UK - Quad, Decca, Garrard
interesting, i've always thought garrard went on horrendous decline since 70s (including a line of bizzare DDs)
401 as their last good TT was launched in mid-60s.
also not sure about quad, since they had no speaker developments in the 70s, the only new product was (IMHO a dubious) 405, more interesting for design than sound.
i would say if there's a still relevant 70s british audio product, it's tannoy HPD drivers.... (someone else has to mention LP12 haha)
decca is a good call, they really became strong in the 70s with improved versions of their old design - blue, maroon, gold.
japan was so much ahead of everyone in the 70s, especially in the late decade when a boom of the consumer audio market made big corporations able to invest crazy money in R&D. the products made on a turn from 70s to 80s are absolutely impossible to happen again on the commercial market and make everything else produced more or less agricultural.
I would add Radford and Tannoy to your UK list and Yamaha and Luxman to your Japan list.
I was going to add them, but the question was referring to the '70s. Both Radford and Tannoy made their reputation in the '60s and designs made in the '70s did not IMO show any improvement over the earlier designs.
interesting, i've always thought garrard went on horrendous decline since 70s (including a line of bizzare DDs)
401 as their last good TT was launched in mid-60s.
also not sure about quad, since they had no speaker developments in the 70s, the only new product was (IMHO a dubious) 405, more interesting for design than sound.
i would say if there's a still relevant 70s british audio product, it's tannoy HPD drivers.... (someone else has to mention LP12 haha)
decca is a good call, they really became strong in the 70s with improved versions of their old design - blue, maroon, gold.
japan was so much ahead of everyone in the 70s, especially in the late decade when a boom of the consumer audio market made big corporations able to invest crazy money in R&D. the products made on a turn from 70s to 80s are absolutely impossible to happen again on the commercial market and make everything else produced more or less agricultural.
The Garrard 401 was available well into the '70s, but would agree Garrard's newer designs were poor, as were Thorens, post TD160.
The Quad 44 preamp and 63 speaker appeared on the market during the late '70s.
anubisgrau
28-11-2016, 10:40
The Quad 44 preamp and 63 speaker appeared on the market during the late '70s.
I thought it was introduced in 1981. My bad...
Think when you consider all the major Japanese companies input during that decade, it not even close as to who were electronics masters. As much as i like British electronics, as i did British motorbikes, the Japanese gave us what we Brits wanted and British companies wouldnt, or couldnt. Hence our demise, along with our motorbike industry.
Wakefield Turntables
28-11-2016, 11:38
I'd add sansui to the list of Japanese companies that made sublime equipment during the 70s, the ca3000 or the massive ba5000 which could pump 600watts into any speaker back In the day.
Beobloke
28-11-2016, 12:57
Japan and Denmark, obviously. :D
Japan and Denmark, obviously. :D
Thought you might say that Adam :lol:. I would certainly be happy with the B&O 6000 series components (the ones with the slide-rule cursor controls), complete with the B&O-badged Thorens TD124/II and the SP 14 cartridge. Not so sure about the speakers though.
57charles
28-11-2016, 17:08
Japan by a mile in terms of build quality, engineering, design, VFM, joy of ownership, reliability and sound quality. Whatever your view of 'sound quality' was, there would be a component from Japan that matched your taste and would include all the other aforementioned qualities.
RobbieGong
28-11-2016, 20:08
Japan, absolutely. A lot of their heyday, flag ship gear is simply stunning.
unfairlane
29-11-2016, 10:31
Japan by a mile, and they were not really beaten until the frenchmen started making Jadis in early 80`s
No question about it. Japan.
Arkless Electronics
16-12-2016, 13:45
USA. But only for the mega high end stuff.
spendorman
16-12-2016, 13:52
How about Italy?
I like these Galactron products.
Made some decent gear did Galactron!
Was there a tie up with Goodmans?
Jac Hawk
17-12-2016, 17:43
USA. But only for the mega high end stuff.
That's it in a nutshell, most of us would say Japan but thats because most of us didn't have pockets deep enough to afford the gear from other places. Personally i think Japan made higher quality sound more affordable and in particular made some great amps and cassette decks, however they made in the most part dreadful speakers, where as we in good ole blighty made some real cracking speakers but couldn't compete with the likes of the Japanese products at a specific price point.
Arkless Electronics
17-12-2016, 18:43
That's it in a nutshell, most of us would say Japan but thats because most of us didn't have pockets deep enough to afford the gear from other places. Personally i think Japan made higher quality sound more affordable and in particular made some great amps and cassette decks, however they made in the most part dreadful speakers, where as we in good ole blighty made some real cracking speakers but couldn't compete with the likes of the Japanese products at a specific price point.
Agreed.
walpurgis
17-12-2016, 19:19
Was there a tie up with Goodmans?
Yes. Goodmans handled UK marketing I believe.
I think the 70s were the heyday for all analog gear.
As far as components go I would say the US started strong, but Japan finished off the decade on top.
Speaker wise the US wins.
Great turntables came from a lot of different countries. AR, Linn, Thorens, Technics, Micro, Dual, Lenco. I don't think I can pick a winner. I like them all.
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There is lots of 'seventies Jap high end that never got out of Japan though. How may of us have heard that? Unknown unknowns, as they say.
09mike69
18-01-2017, 23:19
I think the 70s were the heyday for all analog gear.
As far as components go I would say the US started strong, but Japan finished off the decade on top.
Speaker wise the US wins.
Great turntables came from a lot of different countries. AR, Linn, Thorens, Technics, Micro, Dual, Lenco. I don't think I can pick a winner. I like them all.
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"speaker wise the US wins" surprises me, considering the market for british made speakers in the US and north america...
do you have the lowdown on some "sleeper" american speaks we should look out for ?
or am i just a cheeky limey bastard :cool:
surprises me too but what do I know :)
09mike69
18-01-2017, 23:32
the beauty is that now... we can afford the high end 70's gear..(well..some of it) but with many thanks to the fellas on here who are prepared to share their knowledge on some of the classics.
lets be honest, do you think that the new amp, TT is still going to be working 30 or 40yrs from now ???
it really is for this reason i value the so called "vintage" gear.
if its still around and gets old enough to be "vintage" it must have been made with some degree of quality.
thanks chaps
all your knowledge is welcome
Mike.
"speaker wise the US wins" surprises me, considering the market for british made speakers in the US and north america...
do you have the lowdown on some "sleeper" american speaks we should look out for ?
or am i just a cheeky limey bastard :cool:
AR, Advent, KLH, JBL, Altec Lansing, and even Bose made some decent ones in the 70s. You just needed a monster of an amp to push most of them.
Times have changed.
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walpurgis
19-01-2017, 00:13
AR, Advent, KLH, JBL, Altec Lansing, and even Bose made some decent ones in the 70s. You just needed a monster of an amp to push most of them.
Times have changed.
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Yes. Those names made some great speakers.
USA - Mark Levinson, Audio Research, Dayton Wright, Magnaplanar
Japan - Accuphase, Nakamichi, Stax, and Sony and Teac R2Rs
UK - Quad, Decca, Garrard
Norway - Electrocompaniet
Switzerland - FM Acoustics, Thorens, Studer, Nagra
Germany - Braun, EMT
How could you leave Techincs and Denon out of the Jap list, Bazza?
Technics, at the very least, for their superb SP10 motor unit, and Denon, at the very least for their iconic DL103 cartridge, which has spanned many decades and is arguably the biggest selling MC cartridge of all time, perhaps second only to the SPU - oh and you've not listed Denmark for that particular triumph either! :eek: ;)
For the UK, I'd also add Harbeth and Spendor to your list, as in their heyday, some of which was during the 70s, they also produced some iconic, world-renowned designs.
Marco.
Arkless Electronics
19-01-2017, 19:33
the beauty is that now... we can afford the high end 70's gear..(well..some of it) but with many thanks to the fellas on here who are prepared to share their knowledge on some of the classics.
lets be honest, do you think that the new amp, TT is still going to be working 30 or 40yrs from now ???
it really is for this reason i value the so called "vintage" gear.
if its still around and gets old enough to be "vintage" it must have been made with some degree of quality.
thanks chaps
all your knowledge is welcome
Mike.
Yup.... Some of it anyway. The higher the tech the lower the lifespan and serviceability really. CD players, DACs, DAB radios... anything digital really then no. Definitely not. Same for anything microprocessor controlled or with a remote generally. There are plenty of amps, turntables, arms and speakers that I would expect to be around in 30 -40 years though yes.
Arkless Electronics
19-01-2017, 19:46
Ultimate company on Jap list would have to be Matsushita
Yup.... Some of it anyway. The higher the tech the lower the lifespan and serviceability really. CD players, DACs, DAB radios... anything digital really then no. Definitely not. Same for anything microprocessor controlled or with a remote generally. There are plenty of amps, turntables, arms and speakers that I would expect to be around in 30 -40 years though yes.
Oi - my Sony CDP and DAC are still going strong, and have been since 1987! ;)
Can't see why they won't go on for many more years yet still... :)
Marco.
How could you leave Techincs and Denon out of the Jap list, Bazza?
Technics, at the very least, for their superb SP10 motor unit, and Denon, at the very least for their iconic DL103 cartridge, which has spanned many decades and is arguably the biggest selling MC cartridge of all time, perhaps second only to the SPU - oh and you've not listed Denmark for that particular triumph either! :eek: ;)
For the UK, I'd also add Harbeth and Spendor to your list, as in their heyday, some of which was during the 70s, they also produced some iconic, world-renowned designs.
Marco.
I neglected Denon, since their 103 MC cartridge was designed in the '60s for NHK; though the 103S and 103D were available in the '70s. For the same reason, I omitted the Ortofon SPU; it was only available in Japan in very limited numbers in the 1970s, whereas in Europe and the USA it had been superceded by the S15TE and SL15E, and later by the SL15E Mk. II.
The Technics SP10 TT, yes OK. And I'll admit the Harbeth and Spendor speakers as well, though some don't agree with the BBC school of thought on speaker design.
I understand your thinking, but if you read the title of the thread again, I don't take it that it needs to be when the items in question were first designed, but rather if the manufacturers concerned were actually producing their products during the 1970s, so using the DL-103 as an example, 103s would've still been produced in the 1970s, which indeed they were, and therefore are relevant to the thread topic...
Ditto SPUs. Oh, and there were a few places in the UK where you could buy SPUs, during the 1970s, at least I certainly knew of some in Glasgow ;)
Marco.
Arkless Electronics
19-01-2017, 21:11
Oi - my Sony CDP and DAC are still going strong, and have been since 1987! ;)
Can't see why they won't go on for many more years yet still... :)
Marco.
I can. They won't ;)
Yes, but you didn't even think they'd keep going for as long as they have already, so what are the chances you'll be right this time? :D
£100 says that in 5 years time they'll still be going strong... Are you man enough/confident enough in your own judgement to take the bet? ;)
Marco.
:popcorn: :popcorn:
Marco.
Jac Hawk
19-01-2017, 22:51
Speaker wise the US wins.
Not sure I agree when here in good ole England we had Tannoy, B&W, Kef, Rogers, Harbeth to name but a few, there was a lot of crap that came out of England in the 70's, but in my opinion our speakers were world beaters
Not sure I agree when here in good ole England we had Tannoy, B&W, Kef, Rogers, Harbeth to name but a few, there was a lot of crap that came out of England in the 70's, but in my opinion our speakers were world beaters
We just have a different styles of listening. I thought this was an opinion thread.
For the type of music I like, big speakers and high wattage would have been my choice in the 70s.
I run lower wattage amps with more efficient speakers now. You can almost get the best of bost worlds. I got rid of my Monitors, and went with Klipsch a few years ago. The Monitors were great speakers, but they came up short on bass.
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Hi Nathan,
I know where you're coming from, but you don't get much bigger speakers than, say, a pair of Tannoy Westminsters! ;)
I'm a big fan of (big) JBLs, which I believe are US-made :cool:
Marco.
Jac Hawk
19-01-2017, 23:26
We just have a different styles of listening. I thought this was an opinion thread.
For the type of music I like, big speakers and high wattage would have been my choice in the 70s.
Yes you're right this is an opinion thread and I've given mine, by the way you haven't said what music you like, but if big speakers from the 70's float your boat Celestion Ditton 66's are hard to beat, in my humble opinion.
Yeah, 66s rock... Did you get to hear my old ones at Scalford, Mike? :)
Marco.
Jac Hawk
19-01-2017, 23:41
Yeah, 66s rock... Did you get to hear my old ones at Scalford, Mike? :)
Marco.
No unfortunately, they are cracking speakers though, regarding Tannoy Westminsters don't some councils require you to apply for planning permission before getting those bad boys:eyebrows::eek:
Yes you're wright this is an opinion thread and I've given mine, by the way you haven't said what music you like, but if big speakers from the 70's float your boat Celestion Ditton 66's are hard to beat, in my humble opinion.
Rock, and classic country, but I listen to pretty much everything. I don't like opera. I've been listening to a lot of prog rock lately YES, Genesis, Rush. I'm listening to the Beastie Boys right now and the 8 inch woofers aren't really doing them justice.
I've never heard Celestions. I rarely even see old British speakers here, and I've never been that impressed by them. I'm not the biggest fan of vintage speakers period. I'm not into the idea of perfect reproduction either, so I'm not really a HiFi purist. If turning a knob makes it sound better to me, I turn it.
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No unfortunately, they are cracking speakers though, regarding Tannoy Westminsters don't some councils require you to apply for planning permission before getting those bad boys:eyebrows::eek:
Indeed - they dwarf my Lockwoods, and those ain't exactly teensy! :eek:
Here's a pair of Tannoy Westminster Royals, with some McIntosh amps (shit music, though)... Observe how much the speakers dwarf what are in reality HUGE amps:
GH5OIEpqrCM
Marco.
Rock, and classic country, but I listen to pretty much everything. I don't like opera. I've been listening to a lot of prog rock lately YES, Genesis, Rush. I'm listening to the Beastie Boys right now and the 8 inch woofers aren't really doing them justice.
I've never heard Celestions. I rarely even see old British speakers here, and I've never been that impressed by them. I'm not the biggest fan of vintage speakers period. I'm not into the idea of perfect reproduction either, so I'm not really a HiFi purist. If turning a knob makes it sound better to me, I turn it.
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Me too;)
I think the Yanks can claim the speaker crown on the strength of JBL and Altec alone.
Light Dependant Resistor
20-01-2017, 08:29
I think the Yanks can claim the speaker crown on the strength of JBL and Altec alone.
Edgar Villchurs patents and then subsequent products with AR using the acoustic suspension principle I think was the best USA did
for that era. Small cabinets and extraordinary bass output was what resulted. Consumers were happy - and still are
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rDoaFrjaew
http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?1308-The-12-Most-Significant-Loudspeakers-of-All-Time
Altec and JBL certainly went loud, but IMO were not in the same league as AR
Me too;)
Yesh, you've always loved playing with your knob! :D
Btw, the YT video I posted above was solely to illustrate the sheer scale of the Westies, not to showcse the quality of their sound, certainly in that system, which sounded as SHITE as the music chosen to demonstrate it!! :spew:
Marco.
They were certainly huge. Probably too big tbh.think yours are about right compromise. Ah well off to hospital doh. See you all later
Surprised to see no mention of the Big Pioneer Silver SA range
I had one of the smaller ones in the early eighties, Think it was a SA-6000 or something (Memory fades as I get older so cant be sure of the model number) but it had a awesome sound. (40w Per Channel with plugs on the back to split the pre/power amps if anyone recognises it).
Always wanted one of the SA-9XXX series but not for what people ask for them now, over a grand for an un-serviced one is the average asking over here, they where good but not that good ;)
They were certainly huge. Probably too big tbh.think yours are about right compromise. Ah well off to hospital doh. See you all later
No worries, mate. Good luck with whatever you're having done :)
Marco.
Surprised to see no mention of the Big Pioneer Silver SA range
I had one of the smaller ones in the early eighties, Think it was a SA-6000 or something (Memory fades as I get older so cant be sure of the model number) but it had a awesome sound. (40w Per Channel with plugs on the back to split the pre/power amps if anyone recognises it).
Always wanted one of the SA-9XXX series but not for what people ask for them now, over a grand for an un-serviced one is the average asking over here, they where good but not that good ;)
Got an sa8100. It's a big silver and wood gal. About 40/50watts
No worries, mate. Good luck with whatever you're having done :)
Marco.
In queue
09mike69
20-01-2017, 10:04
We just have a different styles of listening. I thought this was an opinion thread.
For the type of music I like, big speakers and high wattage would have been my choice in the 70s.
I run lower wattage amps with more efficient speakers now. You can almost get the best of bost worlds. I got rid of my Monitors, and went with Klipsch a few years ago. The Monitors were great speakers, but they came up short on bass.
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well, if its big american speakers you prefer, what about beveridge speakers ?.. the early ones were about the size of a wardrobe :stalks:
designed and built in the US and, by all accounts very special.
Arkless Electronics
20-01-2017, 13:21
Yes, but you didn't even think they'd keep going for as long as they have already, so what are the chances you'll be right this time? :D
£100 says that in 5 years time they'll still be going strong... Are you man enough/confident enough in your own judgement to take the bet? ;)
Marco.
I don't bet. Ever. Never even bought a lottery ticket..... the one vice I've been spared:D
It is very unusual for them to last as long as they have already and I doubt they'll last much longer. LSI IC's won't generally last as long as discrete transistors and when they do finally fail, they cannot be replaced by generic parts, and the original will usually be unobtainium. Hence. in general, do not expect anything digital to last more than 20 years (often much less) and don't expect it to be possible to repair it when it does go.
You don't repair any digital stuff though, Jez.
Even old CD players can be fixed providing it isn't an obsolete part that has gone U/S. Too much good stuff gets skipped because of this and other misapprehensions.
Like when people say 'Oh don't buy that amp, if it goes wrong the manufacturer is out of business so you won't get it fixed' - as though it is only the people who made it who know how it works. It's complete bollocks.
I don't bet. Ever. Never even bought a lottery ticket..... the one vice I've been spared:D
It is very unusual for them to last as long as they have already and I doubt they'll last much longer. LSI IC's won't generally last as long as discrete transistors and when they do finally fail, they cannot be replaced by generic parts, and the original will usually be unobtainium. Hence. in general, do not expect anything digital to last more than 20 years (often much less) and don't expect it to be possible to repair it when it does go.
Ok, that's fair enough, but the FACT is (since you like dealing in facts, lol) both components *have* actually lasted that long, and IMO are on course to go on for a lot longer, too. And these items have had many THOUSANDS of hours of use.
On average, I listen to music for 5-6 hours a day, and when I'm on 'digital mode', much of that is on CD. And the mech on the Sony still reads the T.O.C within a nano second!
The point is, Jez, I've given you a valid example of where what you wrote earlier was wrong, and I suspect I'm not the only person in the world either to own a 30-year old CDP (or DAC), which is still working perfectly today! ;)
Marco.
Ive. An old denon that still works perfectly not sure of age. It is
Arkless Electronics
20-01-2017, 15:05
Ok folks... as usual my 40 years experience, qualifications, and knowledge means I know fuck all... whatever...
Dont be like that. Just saying its not universal with old digi. In fact this denon is pretty amazing it been used abused, left out in shed for years over winter and when u put a disc in it reads it instantly. Sounds very nice too. If it didnt have a burn on front id use it more. ...shallow i know.
Those Tannoys are huge. I've never seen Beveridge speakers. Altec and JBL are more my taste. AR and Advent are more accurate, and can throw some bass if they have the wattage behind them.
Pioneer had some great models too. The first big speakers I had were Pioneers with 15s in them. I don't remember the model. My parents hated those things.
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The TD-1541 chip is the only thing I ever buy an old CD player for. Some of them still run fine, but can be picky with certain types of discs. The microprocessors won't last forever, and will be hard or impossible to replace when the time comes. Most of them can be bypassed if you want a CD player with no display or controls. It's easier to just scavenge the chips and use them to build a standalone DAC in my opinion.
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The TD-1541 chip is the only thing I ever buy an old CD player for. Some of them still run fine, but can be picky with certain types of discs. The microprocessors won't last forever, and will be hard or impossible to replace when the time comes. Most of them can be bypassed if you want a CD player with no display or controls. It's easier to just scavenge the chips and use them to build a standalone DAC in my opinion.
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I've a few broken players that use the TD1541. Knocking up a DAC from them just to pass a rainy afternoon is beyond me though.
I've a few broken players that use the TD1541. Knocking up a DAC from them just to pass a rainy afternoon is beyond me though.
You can buy premade boards. It's more than an afternoon's work. They generally take several different voltages. You need clean power supplies for all of them. You can isolate the DAC on the main board of the broken player, and insert the i2s signal from another source, but that's not easy either. It's a good learning process. If it's already dead you can't really make it worse.
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Light Dependant Resistor
20-01-2017, 21:03
You don't repair any digital stuff though, Jez.
Even old CD players can be fixed providing it isn't an obsolete part that has gone U/S. Too much good stuff gets skipped because of this and other misapprehensions.
Like when people say 'Oh don't buy that amp, if it goes wrong the manufacturer is out of business so you won't get it fixed' - as though it is only the people who made it who know how it works. It's complete bollocks.
As long as the schematic and parts are available.
As long as the schematic and parts are available.
Of course. Some are going to be a dead loss but not all of them by any means.
As long as the schematic and parts are available.
Sometimes you have to improvise.
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Ok folks... as usual my 40 years experience, qualifications, and knowledge means I know fuck all... whatever...
That's not the point mate, and untrue. In the majority of instances with CDPs and DACs you'll be right, but not *always*, and you've been given examples of that.
If you were a little less prone to making such absolutist statements, which when challenged, as in this case, are proven as wrong, your "40 years experience, qualifications and knowledge" would be given more credit than it already is.
Marco.
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