WANTED: preamp, £2k+ budget, any ideas?

[montesquieu]

Next to speakers, preamps are the hardest thing in a system to get right: we all know this to be true.

As well as Will's scratch build which is back with him for tweaking and finalising (a process that could take some time given his workload) I currently have a Modwright LS36.5, an excellent preamp but one which lacks an essential feature I need, namely a tape or effects loop to put my pre-RIAA equalisation box into. Also while a truly excellent indeed arguably outstanding performer it perhaps lacks the character I quite like in a preamp (some of course would consider this quality an asset!). Anyway I'm on the hunt to replace it, with something that will be in use at least while Will does his thing... I've had a good look around ebay and the like there are a few interesting things around, but nothing that jumps out.

Essential qualities:

1) I need to be able to hear it in my system - this is an absolute MUST, I simply don't make major changes unheard these days
2) It'll **probably** have tubes in ... but I'm open minded (after all there are FET AN M7's around - not in budget sadly - and the Aurorasound Preda would undoubtedly be on my list to hear if I had the dosh)
3) It'll probably be second hand - given the need for a tape loop and VFM as well as re-sale considerations
4) If possible, modest form factor no bigger than a standard 43cm component footprint, or two boxes that fit that profile
5) Most likely a linestage as overwhelmingly my experience with internal phono stages are that they are compromised (and I have the Aurorasound Vida anyway)
6) High input impedance / low output impedance - the former at least is very important to get the best out of the Vida
7) It should measure well - no voodoo bollocks - and be quiet, within the bounds of what valves can manage, no excessive hum, hiss or microphony
8) It should be nicely made - I like a bit of pride of ownership
9) Proper volume and if possible balance pot - I HATE twin pots
10) Not tubed with unobtanium or unaffordablum
11) Tape loop or effects loop available so I can switch my EQ box in and out without it sitting in series with the phono stage

What I don't care about:

1) Gain - the Radford has variable input sensitivity so gain isn't an issue though it should ideally have at least some
2) Remote - a nice to have rather than a must
3) Hybrid - I don't care particularly if it's all-tube or hybrid, if it does the job
4) Colour - did I mention I don't care?

Ruled out, largely on a been there, done that, basis:

Cheaper EAR preamps (he said trying not to be jealous of Peter's 912), Audion (had the Quattro, it was noisy), Croft (please don't try and persuade me - just not my thing), Audio Note UK (see voodoo bollocks above - have tried M2, M3, M5 - actually thought a modded M2 was the best out of that lot, others too dry), Shindo/Leben (tried them, not for me - perhaps too MUCH character), ANY passive or TVC including LDR, Pass buffers, valve buffers and the like (tried many, totally NOT my thing), WAD (see pride of ownership). I'm sure quite a few others I can't think of right now.

Not sure if this should be a WTB or something maybe in Past Masters - happy to encourage discussion in the thread, will take all input though not necessarily comment on, feel free to PM me with offers, links or suggestions directly.

[danilo]

Could?? Buy a 10 K Dact .. add connectors to it. And have a Very Good (passive) Pre . IF your gear needs a Buffer as well ( some setups do)
A Pass Diy:
https://www.passdiy.com/pdf/B1%20Buffer%20Preamp.pdf
https://www.passdiy.com/pdf/B1%20Buffer%20Preamp.pdf

Likely better performing than 99% of what's Commercially available.
Or Not ..Your Choice :-)

[Light Dependant Resistor]

Like asking for a Morris 1000 with a 13b Rotary ( Yes there is at least one I know of, as I built the engine for it, and is still running well )

Specialist requirements like this could probably found in a Audio Research preamp. But I do not think you will get as good audio quality as a passive
as this review reveals comparing to other passives as well. http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/113297-comparison-lightspeed-diy-ldr-pre-vs-stereo-coffee-diy/

Impedance mismatches can be a long road, if they are not addressed. The two key requirements are adequate power amp sensitivity typically below 800mv
and resistive loading above 50k . There are exceptions like Quad's 306 with 300mv sensitivity and 30k loading that work really well with passives.
At the other end of the scale a Quad 405 Net Audio Mk3 with LM6171 op amps has 1.5v sensitivity and 220k loading, it also works well with passives.

Sensible power amp specs are what you need. before embarking on a preamp of one of a kind that may or may not then work properly.
A few minutes studying your power amps specs may be an ear opener, so to speak. The DIY path to a degree, is I think the way to go
as you then get all your requirements catered for ( eventually ) .

Cheers / Chris

[CageyH]

Have a listen to a Firebottle KIN if you get the chance.
In my (limited) experience, it is very good and is well under budget.

[Firebottle]

Tom it's a pity that I don't have a stock Firebottle KIN phono/line preamp built up that I could send down.

It ticks all your boxes :doh:, apart from the tape loop which could be easily fitted.

[stevied]

Next to speakers, preamps are the hardest thing in a system to get right: we all know this to be true.

As well as Will's scratch build which is back with him for tweaking and finalising (a process that could take some time given his workload) I currently have a Modwright LS36.5, an excellent preamp but one which lacks an essential feature I need, namely a tape or effects loop to put my pre-RIAA equalisation box into. Also while a truly excellent indeed arguably outstanding performer it perhaps lacks the character I quite like in a preamp (some of course would consider this quality an asset!). Anyway I'm on the hunt to replace it, with something that will be in use at least while Will does his thing... I've had a good look around ebay and the like there are a few interesting things around, but nothing that jumps out.

Essential qualities:

1) I need to be able to hear it in my system - this is an absolute MUST, I simply don't make major changes unheard these days
2) It'll **probably** have tubes in ... but I'm open minded (after all there are FET AN M7's around - not in budget sadly - and the Aurorasound Preda would undoubtedly be on my list to hear if I had the dosh)
3) It'll probably be second hand - given the need for a tape loop and VFM as well as re-sale considerations
4) If possible, modest form factor no bigger than a standard 43cm component footprint, or two boxes that fit that profile
5) Most likely a linestage as overwhelmingly my experience with internal phono stages are that they are compromised (and I have the Aurorasound Vida anyway)
6) High input impedance / low output impedance - the former at least is very important to get the best out of the Vida
7) It should measure well - no voodoo bollocks - and be quiet, within the bounds of what valves can manage, no excessive hum, hiss or microphony
8) It should be nicely made - I like a bit of pride of ownership
9) Proper volume and if possible balance pot - I HATE twin pots
10) Not tubed with unobtanium or unaffordablum
11) Tape loop or effects loop available so I can switch my EQ box in and out without it sitting in series with the phono stage

What I don't care about:

1) Gain - the Radford has variable input sensitivity so gain isn't an issue though it should ideally have at least some
2) Remote - a nice to have rather than a must
3) Hybrid - I don't care particularly if it's all-tube or hybrid, if it does the job
4) Colour - did I mention I don't care?

Ruled out, largely on a been there, done that, basis:

Cheaper EAR preamps (he said trying not to be jealous of Peter's 912), Audion (had the Quattro, it was noisy), Croft (please don't try and persuade me - just not my thing), Audio Note UK (see voodoo bollocks above - have tried M2, M3, M5 - actually thought a modded M2 was the best out of that lot, others too dry), Shindo/Leben (tried them, not for me - perhaps too MUCH character), ANY passive or TVC (tried many, totally NOT my thing), WAD (see pride of ownership). I'm sure quite a few others I can't think of right now.

Not sure if this should be a WTB or something maybe in Past Masters - happy to encourage discussion in the thread, will take all input though not necessarily comment on, feel free to PM me with offers, links or suggestions directly.
Klyne 7

[montesquieu]

Klyne 7

I had a Kline head amp years ago and loved it - but where and how much? (I'm trying to be practical here - I'm actually looking for stuff I can try and buy, here in the U.K., available and in budget. )

And could the passive fans please piss off - tried many, I don't like them, they don't work with my kit and I'm not interested. I've made that very clear above.

[Ali Tait]

Not heard one myself, it's very good from what I read though, something a bit different-

http://www.transcendentsound.com/Masterpiece.html

You could ask Alan to build it and add a tape loop.

[montesquieu]

Not heard one myself, it's very good from what I read though, something a bit different-

http://www.transcendentsound.com/Masterpiece.html

You could ask Alan to build it and add a tape loop.


I had one of these, built by Rabski on the Wam, it was good but I think the Modwright is already better.

EDIT OOPS wrote too soon this is a new model I'll look into it.

[jollyfix]

Not sure if this hits the brief Tom, one went on the Bay the other week, for under your budget.
http://www.hattor.com

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HATTOR-AUDIO-ULTIMATE-PASSIVE-PREAMPLIFIER-WITH-VALVE-OUTPUT-STAGE-/262661292895?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&nma=true&si=KLILH%252B2nhKCf2adBXDk572DWpCM%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

[Reffc]

Tom

your list of requirements is a perfectly sensible tick list for a well designed active linestage, and there are probably many that do fit the bill. I can think of some including:

Plinius M16;

Audio Research LS26, or even the humble LS9?

Unison Research Unico Pre;

The curve-ball with everything you've asked for including very impressive measurements and toobs!.....Icon Audio LA4Mk3

I must admit, I do like your Modwright. I also like Will's active which also ticks all the boxes. It needs a new, made for it, chassis plus some new decent pots, but other than that I know measures very well and sounds pretty good. I'll be getting another listen to that one in a few weeks.

I agree with you that in your system, a passive is not the way to go. Passives suit some power amps better than others. In theory, yours ought to work well with one but the problem is that your phono stage has a pretty high output impedance so getting a decent match without squashing dynamics will prove harder than finding a decent active pre or using a passive with active buffer stage (preferably valves).

If I end up going the route that we recently discussed, you'd be more than welcome to audition it.

[Ali Tait]

I had one of these, built by Rabski on the Wam, it was good but I think the Modwright is already better.

EDIT OOPS wrote too soon this is a new model I'll look into it.

Yes, supposed to be considerably better.

[Volante]

I have a Tron Nucleus pre-amp which I am arranging to have serviced by Graham Tricker, and which i may be moving on to reduce my number of boxes. If you are interested I will try to get more information and pics. You may be familiar with it. If not there is quite a lot of chat about it on the Wam. It is shoe-box sized, has a separate PSU and is very heavy. Neil

[walpurgis]

Like asking for a Morris 1000 with a 13b Rotary ( Yes there is at least one I know of, as I built the engine for it, and is still running well )

That's a bloody weird combination. You should have stuck an Alfa V6 in! :D

[WESTLOWER]

David Coe would be able to help you on your quest, top notch engineer based in Wimbledon, many can vouch for him, including PeterRat whom
passed him onto me. He builds some fantastic Pre amps and has units for demo i believe.. https://adaudioconsultants.wordpress.com

[Light Dependant Resistor]

That's a bloody weird combination. You should have stuck an Alfa V6 in! :D
Yes it was a work of art getting the 13B in, as well as an RX7 gearbox. A real low impedance source.

[DSJR]

I take it a passive pre is out of the question? Unless you're using very long interconnects, I'm not sure these days if an active line stage is strictly necessary - and so many vintage preamps are coloured to high heaven in tone if not clarity and don't really deserve the tag 'High Fidelity' as they altered the incoming signal so very much.

Sorry, no names or pack drill, but once you've compared the raw source signal into a suitable power amp and then heard the degradation an older active preamp puts in, it kind of stays with you forever......

If an active pre is important, then have a look at a Croft 25RS two box jobbie. FAR less tonally coloured than a typical ARC, which usually adds excess warmth of 'tone' (ARC can't even get their reference range right as they change every eighteen months for commercial reasons and never actually get 'better') and it makes all cheaper Crofts sound limited and a bit scrappy in direct comparison. Keep the power supply box out of ear-shot though ;)

[Lawrence001]

For someone who doesn't want a passive or a croft you're getting a lot of suggestions!

[montesquieu]

I take it a passive pre is out of the question? Unless you're using very long interconnects, I'm not sure these days if an active line stage is strictly necessary - and so many vintage preamps are coloured to high heaven in tone if not clarity and don't really deserve the tag 'High Fidelity' as they altered the incoming signal so very much.

Sorry, no names or pack drill, but once you've compared the raw source signal into a suitable power amp and then heard the degradation an older active preamp puts in, it kind of stays with you forever......

If an active pre is important, then have a look at a Croft 25RS two box jobbie. FAR less tonally coloured than a typical ARC, which usually adds excess warmth of 'tone' (ARC can't even get their reference range right as they change every eighteen months for commercial reasons and never actually get 'better') and it makes all cheaper Crofts sound limited and a bit scrappy in direct comparison. Keep the power supply box out of ear-shot though ;)


Oh FFS.

My extensive experience leads me to the conclusion that fans of passive preamps are either deaf, delusional or have never heard a decent preamp.

And to suggest a Croft is better than, say an ARC Ref 3 or Ref 5? Not in my book. I had a Ref 5 in here for a visit not so long ago, it was absolutely superb.

[Spectral Morn]

My Balanced Audio Technology VK31 Se answers most of your requirements, it has a tape out but not a record/monitor facility.

Sadly I am not willing to ship it all over the place for auditions, so from that aspect it doesn't meet your needs.

http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?34917-For-Sale-Balanced-Audio-Technology-VK31-Se-pre-amplifier

[montesquieu]

My Balanced Audio Technology VK31 Se answers most of your requirements, it has a tape out but not a record/monitor facility.

Sadly I am not willing to ship it all over the place for auditions, so from that aspect it doesn't meet your needs.

http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?34917-For-Sale-Balanced-Audio-Technology-VK31-Se-pre-amplifier


Indeed. Only interested in kit I can try out. I did see this but since it's in Belfast I assumed auditioning would be impossible. Also a tape out doesn't meet requirements.

[Arkless Electronics]

http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?46640-Valve-hybrid-full-function-pre-amp-with-MM-phono-stage

Should be available before long and ticks all the boxes. It will be available as a line level pre, a full function pre with MM phono stage and as a stand alone phono stage. It is customisable for any requirements a customer may have. The line section is valved and has a gain of 3. The demo version when it is available will be a full function pre amp so people can try it in that form or use only the line stage. It should be about a month before it can be auditioned.

One of the features available will be buffered tape outputs BTW, available in either valve or SS form...

The basic version of the line only pre will be about £800 but the sky's the limit in that the basic version (unfortunately the only version you will be able to audition) will be supplied with parts of a quality that, well, whilst adequate, and on a par with those used by competitors, allows me to do it for £800.... It can be supplied with things like Z Foil resistors, silver foil in oil caps, switched attenuator instead of vol control etc etc.

[Light Dependant Resistor]

Oh FFS.

My extensive experience leads me to the conclusion that fans of passive preamps are either deaf, delusional or have never heard a decent preamp.

And to suggest a Croft is better than, say an ARC Ref 3 or Ref 5? Not in my book. I had a Ref 5 in here for a visit not so long ago, it was absolutely superb.

A study as I suggested earlier of your power amp, might have been a bit more constructive than the comment you replied to me with, and your comments
above, aimed at persons on the forum who have correctly worked out - unlike you, important impedance issues in their audio systems.

It can be seen with the Radford schematic that it has a 100k potentiometer sitting on its input. So you are already using a passive built in to the Radford, but it is
not available externally for adjustment. Passives in series are not a good idea at all, no wonder you are needing unnecessary active preamps

My advice would be to set a sensible resistance like 100k at the input of the Radford replacing R1 100k variable, simply as a fixed good quality resistor for each amp, then reassess all the available options of preamp
The coloration of actives vs passives with far less coloration, may then become far more apparent to you.

18634

[Gordon Steadman]

Oh FFS.

My extensive experience leads me to the conclusion that fans of passive preamps are either deaf, delusional or have never heard a decent preamp.

And to suggest a Croft is better than, say an ARC Ref 3 or Ref 5? Not in my book. I had a Ref 5 in here for a visit not so long ago, it was absolutely superb.

That must rate as one of the most unpleasant comments I have read on this forum. Congratulations:cool:

[JohnJo]

Possible SS contender?

http://www.hifi-forsale.co.uk/mobile/moreinfo.php?pid=39789

It's on the Wigwam too.

http://hifiwigwam.com/forum/topic/120935-chord-electronic-cpa-4000e-reference-pre-amplifier/

Not what you would call an aesthetic match for the Radford mind you.

[Ali Tait]

[QUOTE=montesquieu;807556]Oh FFS.

My extensive experience leads me to the conclusion that fans of passive preamps are either deaf, delusional or have never heard a decent preamp.

And to suggest a Croft is better than, say an ARC Ref 3 or Ref 5? Not in my book. I had a Ref 5 in here for a visit not so long ago, it was absolutely superb.[/QUOTE

That must rate as one of the most unpleasant comments I have read on this forum. Congratulations:cool:

How come my diy passive AVC with Slagle Autoformers was so well liked at a previous NEBO then?

They can't all be deluded and wrong..

[montesquieu]

Shame to see this thread hijacked by people who collectively seem to have passives as a bit of a religion, or indeed as a business. I made it quite clear in the very first post that passive suggestions were unwelcome based on my experience and taste - experience and taste that is at least as valid as anyone here. I was hoping for helpful input and thankfully I have had some both on the thread but mainly via email which I'm grateful and thankful for.

As for the unhelpful, unsolicited and frankly (and explicity) unwanted input -you come on here, repeatedly tell me I'm wrong and wonder why I'm pissed off?

I stand by my opinion of passives. You may disagree. But it's based on very extensive experience as a music student, professional musician, music lover, and 40 year hifi owner. If you arrogantly come on here and tell me I'm wrong then I'm well within my rights to tell you I think you are both clueless are deaf. I'd have a smile on my face when I said it (when first stated it was intended to be funny) but to be honest that smile has worn thin.

Oh and I have no intention of buggering about with the Radford. Arthur Radford knew what he was doing, the amp was designed to operate with an active preamp and that's what I will do. I've played with LDR preamps into other power amps directly (no attenuation in between) and my conclusions were the same as with any other passive - it just doesn't satisfy the ear. I recently sold a retail £6000 EAR 899 which has a passive preamp section - compared to power amp configuration and input from the Modwright, I far preferred the musicality using the Modwright. In fact it wasn't even close. And you really WOULD have to be clueless and deaf not to hear it.

[Lawrence001]

That Chord ticks a few boxes and it's a design statement.

[Light Dependant Resistor]

Shame to see this thread hijacked by people who collectively seem to have passives as a bit of a religion, or indeed as a business. I made it quite clear in the very first post that passive suggestions were unwelcome based on my experience and taste - experience and taste that is at least as valid as anyone here. I was hoping for helpful input and thankfully I have had some both on the thread but mainly via email which I'm grateful and thankful for.

As for the unhelpful, unsolicited and frankly (and explicity) unwanted input -you come on here, repeatedly tell me I'm wrong and wonder why I'm pissed off?

I stand by my opinion of passives. You may disagree. But it's based on very extensive experience as a music student, professional musician, music lover, and 40 year hifi owner. If you arrogantly come on here and tell me I'm wrong then I'm well within my rights to tell you I think you are both clueless are deaf. I'd have a smile on my face when I said it (when first stated it was intended to be funny) but to be honest that smile has worn thin.

Oh and I have no intention of buggering about with the Radford. Arthur Radford knew what he was doing, the amp was designed to operate with an active preamp and that's what I will do. I've played with LDR preamps into other power amps directly (no attenuation in between) and my conclusions were the same as with any other passive - it just doesn't satisfy the ear. I recently sold a retail £6000 EAR 899 which has a passive preamp section - compared to power amp configuration and input from the Modwright, I far preferred the musicality using the Modwright. In fact it wasn't even close. And you really WOULD have to be clueless and deaf not to hear it.

Yes it is good to see you are still enjoying your passive attenuator R1 internally in your Radford. A many decades old potentiometer, which is electrically a L Pad passive,
It would take 30 minutes to improve as a fixed shunt resistor of 100k. Every preamp then you try, will be far better. Just trying to help you.

[montesquieu]

Yes it is good to see you are still enjoying your passive attenuator R1 internally in your Radford. A many decades old potentiometer, which is electrically a L Pad passive,
It would take 30 minutes to improve as a fixed shunt resistor of 100k. Every preamp then you try, will be far better. Just trying to help you.

The pots are normally used open, though I find it useful that attenuation is available if required. My sources are both fairly low gain so some gain in the preamp is essential for me - I can't get adequate volume with a passive.

[Light Dependant Resistor]

:)Well quite easy then to assess with pot, or without- if the R1 pot has some correctness to it, you can easily connect it back in again.
I think Arthur Radford would have been very aware of Peter Walker and every option Peter was providing in Quad equipment, and possibly
momentarily slipped up by fitting R1 variable, rather than a fixed resistor. A shunt resistor is always sensible at the input of a power amp,
and you can rest easy Arthur designed well, as there is no input capacitor to further complicate.

Try a 100k fixed shunt resistor for a week and see what you think, it can't hurt and would be fascinating to hear back if it assists
and I should add it won't cost 2k :) .

Cheers / Chris

[Spectral Morn]

Indeed. Only interested in kit I can try out. I did see this but since it's in Belfast I assumed auditioning would be impossible. Also a tape out doesn't meet requirements.

No worries.

By the way I agree with you re passives I have yet to hear one at any price that does what an active pre does. I hope you find something to suit.

[jandl100]

Yes, actives rule. :)
- I've tried a bunch of passives of pretty much all descriptions, and while I can hear the positives I invariably return to a good active pre with a sense of musical fulfilment.

Damn shame I'm so far off, Tom - I'd love to 'pop round' and bring my own current vintage pre/power amp solution along to see how it fairs!

Good luck with your search.

[Reffc]

Yes, actives rule. :)
- I've tried a bunch of passives of pretty much all descriptions, and while I can hear the positives I invariably return to a good active pre with a sense of musical fulfilment.

Damn shame I'm so far off, Tom - I'd love to 'pop round' and bring my own current vintage pre/power amp solution along to see how it fairs!

Good luck with your search.

I tend to agree, unless the power amps have a high sensitivity and high input impedance, and even then, leads are best really kept as short as possible.

One amp I completely missed but is probably within budget Tom and ticks all your boxes is the TRON Seven Linestage. Superb craftsmanship and quality. I may be trying one out myself in the not too distant future.

[Reffc]

Yes, actives rule. :)
- I've tried a bunch of passives of pretty much all descriptions, and while I can hear the positives I invariably return to a good active pre with a sense of musical fulfilment.

Damn shame I'm so far off, Tom - I'd love to 'pop round' and bring my own current vintage pre/power amp solution along to see how it fairs!

Good luck with your search.

If you want to try them out on the same 'speakers Jerry, I'm a little closer!

[petrat]

Yes, actives rule. :)
- I've tried a bunch of passives of pretty much all descriptions, and while I can hear the positives I invariably return to a good active pre with a sense of musical fulfilment.

Good luck with your search.

:thumbsup: My experience, too.

[Complin]

I always thought that the best pre-amp was no pre-amp at all !!

I suspect this is possible with some sources but not all like playing vinyl

[jandl100]

I always thought that the best pre-amp was no pre-amp at all !!

I agree with the sentiment in principle, but in practise with my current setup where I don't really need a pre-amp it still sounds appreciably better to have my active pre in circuit! :scratch:
-- faster, more precise and detailed, bolder, more presence. Strange.

[jandl100]

If you want to try them out on the same 'speakers Jerry, I'm a little closer!

Thanks, Paul - but no - I was curious as to Tom's views on it!

[Reffc]

Fair enough Jerry as after all, it's about Tom wanting to search out a different preamp, but tbh, I doubt he'll be going down the vintage hifi route anyway (very few really decent preamps seem to come from that era).

[Lawrence001]

Thanks, Paul - but no - I was curious as to Tom's views on it!

Are these the black tulips? A friend has some and he says they are very good not heard them myself.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jandl100]

Fair enough Jerry as after all, it's about Tom wanting to search out a different preamp, but tbh, I doubt he'll be going down the vintage hifi route anyway (very few really decent preamps seem to come from that era).

Very true - I wanted him to hear a decent one, ;)

[jandl100]

Are these the black tulips? A friend has some and he says they are very good not heard them myself.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yep, not "very good" - superb! :D

[AlfaGTV]

If were in your position, i'd take a very close look at snoopdog's Karan KA L Ref MkII.
It is advertised on this very site, and i think it ticks most of your boxes!

[Lawrence001]

If were in your position, i'd take a very close look at snoopdog's Karan KA L Ref MkII.
It is advertised on this very site, and i think it ticks most of your boxes!

It's sold!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[montesquieu]

Need to get you over Jerry ... classical music day has been many times postponed but I'm going to set a day in the spring for sure.

BTW on the preamp front something very interesting is winging its way shortly for me to hear, I'll report back should things work out but looks very promising. So I guess the thread turned out to be useful after all despite its turn into the passive dead-end.

[Macca]

All's well that ends well then.

Must admit I did find it funny that when you had explicitly stated no passives or Croft you were immediately suggested passives and Croft.

If The Fast Show had ever done a hi-fi sketch I suspect that would be the meat of it

[hornucopia]

Is an LDR 'passive'?

[Macca]

Yes, although it needs power to work.

[User211]

Tom WRT remarks about a Ref 5, why not get an ARC Ref 3? I know it is above budget but just borrow any extra dosh if needed.

Must admit I quite like the idea of at least trying one.

https://www.hifishark.com/search?q=audio+research+ref+3

[User211]

I've just realised my preamp has a REC OUT. So I'd strongly recommend what I use: http://www.martinloganowners.com/forum/showthread.php?14721-Very-Good-Chinese-Preamp

According to me better than an EAR868PL sonically. I really think it is fab and it is totally standing the test of time.

Cheapskate link: http://www.cattylink.com/sc10.html

[hifinutt]

I always thought that the best pre-amp was no pre-amp at all !!

I suspect this is possible with some sources but not all like playing vinyl

gosh I just love trying different pre amps , music sounds so much better with them in

[montesquieu]

Upping budget to £3k plus ... a few lines of enquiry progressing


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[topoxforddoc]

Tom,

You could call Graham Tricker and ask if he can bring you a TRON Seven line stage for a home demo. I'm sure that he would be happy to do that. You could have a new TRON at your budget, which he would then match to your Radford. All the TRON preamplifiers have a tape loop. Graham is only in Denham, near Uxbridge. Whisper quiet in terms of circuit noise, excellent SQ and great build too. Oh, and it's British, just like Will's Radford equipment.

[sjs]

Tom

Reading your list of requirements, seems to me you need to retrieve that SJS Arcadia Model 2 preamp you sold :doh: it's nice and quiet since it got sorted out ;)

best of luck with the search

[montesquieu]

Tom

Reading your list of requirements, seems to me you need to retrieve that SJS Arcadia Model 2 preamp you sold :doh: it's nice and quiet since it got sorted out ;)

best of luck with the search


Can't disagree Simon ... I have thought about that! Perfect from an aesthethetic perspective as well, I had the copper top stripped, re-polished and varnished as well.

That DHT pre you had a while back would have been interesting too .. a scratch build of something like that would be interesting (which of course I'd need to commission not having the skils myself) but part of me is done experimenting, I really need to hear whatever it is first this time before I splash out ... I do believe I'm not far from the end of the road.

[corgi 1]

i have the Arcadia 1.5 they call it, I will at sometime try and get my hands on a mk2 but this is a bloody brilliant pre, going back to Simon soon to service and change volume pot for me - I think !:lol:

[montesquieu]

i have the Arcadia 1.5 they call it, I will at sometime try and get my hands on a mk2 but this is a bloody brilliant pre, going back to Simon soon to service and change volume pot for me - I think !:lol:

Acutally performance-wise I'm pretty happy with the Modwright ... it comes damned close to George47's visiting Ref5 that impressed me so much (for all that the Modwright is £4k retail vs £11k, though diminishing returns does really start to kick in at that point).

Why am I looking at changing then? Well it just doesn't have the features I need (specifically a tape monitor circuit) and (shallow though that is) visually it's not the best fit with my vintage-look system. It's actually going to be extremely hard to equal or better the Modwright, I'm under no illusions about that. I suspect my old Model 2 would give it a run for its money but I don't think even that result would be a foregone conclusion. Hence the budget continuing to creep up ...

(And another reason why I won't make a purchase without hearing it first).

[hornucopia]

If you ever call in here.....you can try my Hafler DH 101/112 Pre.(Upgraded)
Definitely not on your wish list I'm sure, but I kept coming back to it/

Yes. we'll be home over the krazy season!

[anubisgrau]

I'm a sucker for DHT preamps and I hoped Manley Neoclassic 300B preamp would have a tape loop but it only has a rec out. Also a shame about Puresound L300 (not a DHT one but looks kosher)

Lots of things mentioned here doesn't have it either so I don't see anything but you sell your Vida, raise a budget to 4.5-5k and find a s/h EAR 912.

Great thread, btw.

[anubisgrau]

What about that Audio Innovations L2 preamp with Definitive Audio mods being advertised here for ages for something like 500 pounds? For sure it has a tape loop and should be decent.

I wouldn't be surprised if old EAR 802 (well, refreshed) would sound better than the newer 86x variables, with Radford power amp.

[krugdoktor]

I know it's above your budget, but it's the best you could get and reasonably priced:
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Nagra-PL-P-High-End-Rohrenvorverstarker-inkl-OVP-wie-Neu-/152340285016?hash=item2378304658:g:6NsAAOSwcUBYQKw J

[montesquieu]

What about that Audio Innovations L2 preamp with Definitive Audio mods being advertised here for ages for something like 500 pounds? For sure it has a tape loop and should be decent.

I wouldn't be surprised if old EAR 802 (well, refreshed) would sound better than the newer 86x variables, with Radford power amp.

I've owned both of these (not modded) in the dim and distant past .... rememember I already have the Modwright which is 90% there, but for functionality really .... not sure either could realistically better that.



I know it's above your budget, but it's the best you could get and reasonably priced:
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Nagra-PL-P-High-End-Rohrenvorverstarker-inkl-OVP-wie-Neu-/152340285016?hash=item2378304658:g:6NsAAOSwcUBYQKw J

Too right this is a sexy beast and in theory does everything I want ... it's the total opposite of the DHT approach though. Kind of thing I'd love to hear for sure.

[anubisgrau]

Rememember I already have the Modwright which is 90% there, but for functionality really .... not sure either could realistically better that.


Really aware of that, only thinking that sometimes you find synergies between the components where you don't expect. Given your music taste and preference for tonal and emotional level of reproduction, I would seek for components that really excel on timber, quality of vocal etc. I've heard far too many forensic sounding modern preamps, even a tube ones, that are actually voiced to be able to follow a digital extraction of details in bits. Sometimes you lose a bit of final detail but you gain musical coherence and connection with the essence and some of the best systems I've heard were completely illogical and had no right to sound that good.

I'm a bit puzzled that no one is mentioning known synergies for Redford amps. There must be advance users who has been on this path before...

[krugdoktor]

Too right this is a sexy beast and in theory does everything I want ... it's the total opposite of the DHT approach though. Kind of thing I'd love to hear for sure.[/QUOTE]

Not only sexy but also sounding fantastic (I have one at home and won't change it for anything else!). Also each input can be adjusted in level and controled with the modulometer! (You can say I am really in love!)

[JohnJo]

Audio Research Ref 3

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Stunning-Audio-Research-Reference-3-Preamplifier-Fully-Boxed-/391646426862?hash=item5b2ff236ee:g:S~AAAOSwux5YN7C o

[montesquieu]

Too right this is a sexy beast and in theory does everything I want ... it's the total opposite of the DHT approach though. Kind of thing I'd love to hear for sure.

Not only sexy but also sounding fantastic (I have one at home and won't change it for anything else!). Also each input can be adjusted in level and controled with the modulometer! (You can say I am really in love!)[/QUOTE]

How does it work with the battery thing? You need to recharge at some point I assume?


Audio Research Ref 3

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Stunning-Audio-Research-Reference-3-Preamplifier-Fully-Boxed-/391646426862?hash=item5b2ff236ee:g:S~AAAOSwux5YN7C o

thanks - yes just been relisted, I thought perhaps it had sold.

[User211]

thanks - yes just been relisted, I thought perhaps it had sold.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Audio-Research-Reference-5-Preamplifier-TOP-/302147817109?hash=item465969ce95:g:XC8AAOSwiDFYN1h y

This went for a good price. The nice Air Tight ATC-2 we discussed by PM for £3,300 got pulled for some reason.

Mind you, at least the Ref 3 is in this country.

[sjs]

Can't disagree Simon ... I have thought about that! Perfect from an aesthethetic perspective as well, I had the copper top stripped, re-polished and varnished as well.

That DHT pre you had a while back would have been interesting too .. a scratch build of something like that would be interesting (which of course I'd need to commission not having the skils myself) but part of me is done experimenting, I really need to hear whatever it is first this time before I splash out ... I do believe I'm not far from the end of the road.
That 26 preamp was really quite something, and is now in N Wales...

That and the transformer couple Model 1 recently up for sale switched me back onto transformer coupled preamps, so much so the prototype for the big Model 4 pre is 417A idht with custom made output transformers, v quiet, no microphonics and almost up there with the 26 pre. I also have some new custom made otx for another 26 dht pre but haven't got round to building it yet....

The tranny amps do something quite magical in the midrange, the challenge seems to be giving them some real drive and dynamics in the bass.

Best of luck with the search

[montesquieu]

That 26 preamp was really quite something, and is now in N Wales...

That and the transformer couple Model 1 recently up for sale switched me back onto transformer coupled preamps, so much so the prototype for the big Model 4 pre is 417A idht with custom made output transformers, v quiet, no microphonics and almost up there with the 26 pre. I also have some new custom made otx for another 26 dht pre but haven't got round to building it yet....

The tranny amps do something quite magical in the midrange, the challenge seems to be giving them some real drive and dynamics in the bass.

Best of luck with the search

Unfortunately timing was wrong when the 26 pre came up ... I was skint at the time.

Also would have liked to have heard the transformer pre in my system but it wasn't possible.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[krugdoktor]

How does it work with the battery thing? You need to recharge at some point I assume?

The battery is constantly charged so it's some sort of capacitor as the running time on batteries alone is quite short (10 to 30 minutes)

[lordmortlock]

EAR 912 on audiomarkt .... sounds like it's a minter

[hifinutt]

legendary hovland h200 just come up. rare as hens teeth but not sure about tape loops

http://hifiwigwam.com/forum/topic/122105-fs-wavac-karan-hovland/

[montesquieu]

legendary hovland h200 just come up. rare as hens teeth but not sure about tape loops

http://hifiwigwam.com/forum/topic/122105-fs-wavac-karan-hovland/



EAR 912 on audiomarkt .... sounds like it's a minter


Thanks guys both avenues worth exploring.

[Reffc]

There's a very nice Audio Research LS25 on audiomarkt (Advert-ID: 6114956393)


Being an Italian market one Tom, it may well be UK-spec 240v.

There's a lovely Jadis on that site too.

[spook]

I have an Ayre K-1xe with a large off board power supply (as it came from the factory). It's the best preamp I've had. I may selling soon as I'm moving and may downsize the hifi.

[Tim F]

This set of posts is from 2016 spook

[anubisgrau]

tom has probably changed 3 preamps ever since :)

and left the forum too!