Teac VRDS-T1 Transport

[Ninanina]

When I picked up my new speakers, the Living Voice Auditoriums, the chap also had a Teac VRDS-T1 transport sitting there so I asked the price and after knocking him down a bit I purchased it

Unfortunately the gear the chap had was of his later bother's collection which is such a shame

Neither the speakers or transport could be heard as they had no other equipment to go with it so I purchased both the speakers and the Teac unheard and untested which is something I would not normally do but the couple I purchased the speakers and transport from where just such lovely people, middle class with a lovely 6 bedroom victorian house, so I am pretty sure it will work ok. Certainly the speakers are working just perfectly

I have not even taken the Teac out of it's box yet but was wondering what people thought of it as a transport

I will probably try it out tomorrow evening with the AN Dac and see how it is

[Spectral Morn]

When I picked up my new speakers, the Living Voice Auditoriums, the chap also had a Teac VRDS-T1 transport sitting there so I asked the price and after knocking him down a bit I purchased it

Unfortunately the gear the chap had was of his later bother's collection which is such a shame

Neither the speakers or transport could be heard as they had no other equipment to go with it so I purchased both the speakers and the Teac unheard and untested which is something I would not normally do but the couple I purchased the speakers and transport from where just such lovely people, middle class with a lovely 6 bedroom victorian house, so I am pretty sure it will work ok. Certainly the speakers are working just perfectly

I have not even taken the Teac out of it's box yet but was wondering what people thought of it as a transport

I will probably try it out tomorrow evening with the AN Dac and see how it is

If its working, be prepared for a shock :eek: I think this will be the best you will have ever heard your music through that DAC.

[Ninanina]

If its working, be prepared for a shock :eek: I think this will be the best you will have ever heard your music through that DAC.

Really Neil is it that good ?

[Spectral Morn]

Really Neil is it that good ?

Yes, nothing else you have will come close. You will hear exactly why transports matter and make a difference.

[Ninanina]

Yes, nothing else you have will come close. You will hear exactly why transports matter and make a difference.

Thanks Neil

I can't wait to try it now

It seems quite heavy to me for a transport and looks well built and as it's 'Made in Japan' I expect it to be pretty good

This is it, sorry not great pic:
http://i.imgur.com/pm3V1wf.jpg

[Spectral Morn]

Thanks Neil

I can't wait to try it now

It seems quite heavy to me for a transport and looks well built and as it's 'Made in Japan' I expect it to be pretty good

This is it, sorry not great pic:
http://i.imgur.com/pm3V1wf.jpg

It is fitted with an early version of the finest Red Book transport ever made. The VRDS mechanisms are to be found in Wadia's and Esoteric's and other top flight high end CD players and Transports. As I say if this works, you are in for a real treat.

Teac no longer supply VRDS mechanisms to other companies, just to Esoteric - a spin off company.

[Ninanina]

It is fitted with an early version of the finest Red Book transport ever made. The VRDS mechanisms are to be found in Wadia's and Esoteric's and other top flight high end CD players and Transports. As I say if this works, you are in for a real treat.

Teac no longer supply VRDS mechanisms to other companies, just to Esoteric - a spin off company.

Thanks Neil
I will do my best to put it in the system tomorrow evening and hopefully it will work ok, I know anything cd related are the riskiest purchases so hopefully it will be fine

[Spectral Morn]

Thanks Neil
I will do my best to put it in the system tomorrow evening and hopefully it will work ok, I know anything cd related are the riskiest purchases so hopefully it will be fine

I will be shocked if you don't hear what I think you should hear :)

[Magna Audio]

I had one. Excellent transport, really does everything right.

[The Black Adder]

I agree. You have one stompin' transport there, Bev.

I was amazed when I had one. It eventually needed a new laser but they are pretty cheap to buy which surprised me.

Moving up the chain, I don't think you will really need to bother with the intermediate TEAC transports until maybe the P30 which is a monster but also now quite expensive to keep running regarding lasers unfortunately.

So, well done... it's a keeper IMO. :) :)

[Spectral Morn]

I agree. You have one stompin' transport there, Bev.

I was amazed when I had one. It eventually needed a new laser but they are pretty cheap to buy which surprised me.

Moving up the chain, I don't think you will really need to bother with the intermediate TEAC transports until maybe the P30 which is a monster but also now quite expensive to keep running regarding lasers unfortunately.

So, well done... it's a keeper IMO. :) :)

P30 is a great transport.

I had a P3 Esoteric, but it was a bit mechanically noisy so moved it on, but that comparison between it and the P5 I did was sobering, the P3 ate it for breakfast.

[Ninanina]

Well I just plugged the Teac in and I cannot get the tray to open....

I'm just looking around it for any transport screws but can't find any

I may have purchased a dud.... ooops... If that's the case then I guess it's the only bit of hifi I've purchased that has showed a fault so after all these years I suppose it had to happen at some point..

[The Black Adder]

Ah... inside you will find a cog that will have become misaligned... check that first. :)

[Stratmangler]

Well I just plugged the Teac in and I cannot get the tray to open....

I'm just looking around it for any transport screws but can't find any

I may have purchased a dud.... ooops... If that's the case then I guess it's the only bit of hifi I've purchased that has showed a fault so after all these years I suppose it had to happen at some point..

Is the fuse in the plug ok?

[Ninanina]

Ah... inside you will find a cog that will have become misaligned... check that first. :)

Thanks Josie I will take a look in it

[Ninanina]

Is the fuse in the plug ok?

Yes Chris the unit does power up ok but just won't open

[Ninanina]

There is a hole in the bottom of the unit

Can anyone tell me if it's there for a reason, like a transport screw etc, or just a hole ?

[paul(555)]

There is a single transport 'screw' accessible from underneath, at least that's if it the same as my VRDS10. The clamp mechanism locks the laser sledge from what I remember.

The other likely problems are a broken drive belt on the opening mechanism or a broken plastic drive cog.

Good luck with the search.

[struth]

Worth getting fixed though if thats all thats wrong, and possibly is. Built like tanks

[DSJR]

Yes, nothing else you have will come close. You will hear exactly why transports matter and make a difference.


Neil, this is a T1 transport, a sheep in wolf's clothing, in other words a dressed up low cost Sony...

http://lampizator.eu/LAMPIZATOR/REFERENCES/TEAC-T1/VRDS-T1.html

Doesn't mean it's bad, but it ain't what the bigger VRDS mechs are...

[57charles]

Probably a broken plastic gear drive - common fault.
I had one of these units for a number of years which uses a cheap Sony drive unlike more expensive models further up the chain (check out the plastic cover -over the cheap ,cheap motor - which performs no function other to give the impression of some kind of 'audio engineering' )- the VRDS 10 and VRDS 25 are miles ahead in terms of internal build and sound quality. I had both of these far superior models for a number of years as well. Unfortunately, Sony laser KS151A which was fitted to the 25 is virtually unobtainable - any you see will be NOS and sell for around 250 pounds+ sterling 'cos the sellers know they are so rare - Sony stopped manufacture years ago.
I replaced the VRDS 25 with a NOS Sony SACD XA3000ES - the Sony rubbishes the VRDS 25 in terms of detail and presence. Not only that but it operates far more smoothly than the clunky TEAC. Sony beats TEAC not only with both using internal DACS but also through TEAC DT-1 - and I can still get a replacement laser.

[Ninanina]

Probably a broken plastic gear drive - common fault.


Well I took the top off and can immediately see a broken off-white cog (gear drive) and therefore put the lid back on double quick

I have no idea if it can be fixed but it's certainly beyond me

So if anyone can repair it make me an offer for it as is.. ;)

[57charles]

I seem to remember those plastic gear drives were relatively expensive for what it was - just a plastic cog - no doubt 'cos the suppliers have a captive audience - 'buy this part or else your unit won't work'. Notwithstanding this, worth fixing if that's all that is wrong with it. I seem to remember that the cheap Sony laser used in this model was still available a while ago (need to check PP, of course). If it is, then unit is worth fixing and a spare laser should be bought for future use.
These units sounded 'OK' with a decent DAC.
If Sony laser not available then 'pot luck' and 'good luck'.

[Spectral Morn]

Neil, this is a T1 transport, a sheep in wolf's clothing, in other words a dressed up low cost Sony...

http://lampizator.eu/LAMPIZATOR/REFERENCES/TEAC-T1/VRDS-T1.html

Doesn't mean it's bad, but it ain't what the bigger VRDS mechs are...

I didn't know that, an eye opening educational read.

And sorry to read of your trouble Bev. I hope you get it sorted out.

[hifi_dave]

Is it possible to get your money returned ? If you can get it repaired for not much, then fair enough.

A repair might be expensive and the T1 isn't worth spending serious money on IMO. It's nothing like the VRDS10 etc, which used Teac's own transports.

[Ninanina]

Now up for sale in 'Private Exhibitions' as I don't have the knowledge to repair it and don't know any cd engineers either

[icehockeyboy]

I tried to buy one of these, on two separate occasions.

Neither unit worked, so I gave up.

[Qwin]

It is fitted with an early version of the finest Red Book transport ever made. The VRDS mechanisms are to be found in Wadia's and Esoteric's and other top flight high end CD players and Transports. As I say if this works, you are in for a real treat.

Teac no longer supply VRDS mechanisms to other companies, just to Esoteric - a spin off company.

These kind of statements make me laugh out loud, the VRDS mechanism in a TEAC VRDS T1 has as much in common with a high end Esoteric VRDS mechanism as a Fiat 500 has with a formula one car. They are both VRDS just as they are both cars, but that is all they have in common.

The CMK-4 CMK-4.2 and CMK-4.5 VRDS variants fitted to the TEAC T1, VRDS 7, VRDS 8, VRDS 9, P-500 and Esoteric P-500 were awful and easily bettered by Pioneer stable platter machines costing far less.

https://www.diyaudio.com/community/attachments/dsc_0123-jpg.353745/

As can be seen, it has a plastic clamp, tiny brush motor that costs about 50 cents, the whole mechanism is built around this motors bearings and puny shaft and its mounted on a thin "Zintec" steel Bridge.
The Bridge on the CMK-4, as used on the T1 Transport, had a ribbed plastic cover that was purely cosmetic, as can be seen in the strip down on the lampizator site:
http://www.lampizator.eu/lampizator/references/TEAC-T1/VRDS-T1.html



This is the VRDS NEO variant used on top end Esoteric models, there is no comparison.

https://www.hifi-advice.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/esoteric-p01_vrds-neo-trans_464pix.jpg

It uses a 6mm bearing shaft, brushless hall effect motor(see below), aero space quality bearings a laminated platter construction, Sanyo Laser and is very, very robust.

https://www.hifi-advice.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/teac-vrds-neo-motor_550pix.jpg


The mid range CMK-3.2 variant of VRDS is a much better mechanism than any of the CMK-4.(X) and a machine built around this is worth consideration.
Models like VRDS 10, VRDS 10SE, VRDS 20, VRDS 25, TEAC P-700, Esoteric P-700 all used this variant, coupled with the better Sony KSS-151A Laser assembly.
It has good bearings a hall effect motor and metal clamp, the plastic moulded bridge is well braced and much more rigid than the Zintec one.

This is what this transport looks like:

https://audio-database.com/TEAC-ESOTERIC/player/p-700(2).jpg

Strangely enough, the models using the better CMK-3.2 mechanism are not much more expensive on the used market, than the inferior CMK-4.(X) machines.
All but the high end machines, benefit from a Clock and dedicated PSU upgrade and if you are using SPDIF a better output board, using a 75ohm BNC connection.
Do a little research before diving in on a VRDS machine as they are not all equal, far from it!

[Gazjam]

Ken,
you know your Transports!

what’s your take on the StreamUnlimited 8 drive and Blue Tiger CD-84 servo card, a new transport being used in higher end transports?
Curious how these stack up against the high end Teacs.

thanks.

[Barry]

I find it strange that Ken replied some 7 years after Neil's original post, especially as the misconception was pointed out at the time.

[Qwin]

I find it strange that Ken replied some 7 years after Neil's original post, especially as the misconception was pointed out at the time.

Hi Barry, it was because I am looking at getting a VRDS transport, did a search on here and was surprised how many statements early on in the thread are just inaccurate.
Also, I don't think it was made clear, just how basic the build quality is on the CMK-4.X variants compared with all others.
Gaz
" what’s your take on the StreamUnlimited 8 drive and Blue Tiger CD-84 servo card, a new transport being used in higher end transports?
Curious how these stack up against the high end Teacs."

My knowledge is mostly around VRDS as I researched that mechanism recently.
But the StreamUnlimited/BlueTiger as used in the ProJect CD Box RS2 T and others, is very good.
Also worth noting:eyebrows: is the Audio Note CDT TWO/II top loader, using Philips CDM Pro mechanism. Both fine machines.

The Wadia VRDS stuff is overpriced, what made them special wasn't VRDS, they didn't always use the best variant available, but their custom firmware.
Discounting the later and exotic NEO variants, there was not much difference between a TEAC VRDS 10 and an Esoteric P2, which was much more expensive.
The basic mechanism was the same, as was the hall effect brushless motor (same part numbers) The rigid metal bridge that supports the P2 mechanism is said to offer little over the heavily braced and rigid plastic version. It was the power supplies that were much much better. from memory the P2 had four separately regulated supplies on board.

I just pulled the trigger on an Esoteric P-700, but its in Perth, Australia, so I won't be seeing that for a while yet.

A re clock, improvements in the PSU and adding a better BNC 75ohm output board can elevate the old VRDS machines to a high level. But I'm talking about them as a Transport, the old DAC's they used can easily be improved on.

[Gazjam]

Cheers Ken.

[hifinutt]

ken what do you think of the new Teac 701t ?

https://teac.jp/int/product/vrds-701t/top

[Qwin]

ken what do you think of the new Teac 701t ?

https://teac.jp/int/product/vrds-701t/top

Hi Phil
Not a lot really.
I looked at it, as I'm in the market for a CD Transport and can't afford a hi end Esoteric.
With the old classic VRDS machines, the further you went up the model range, the heavier/Chunkier the bridge/bearing/shaft and clamp became, and the more attention they paid to the power supplies. An Esoteric model I looked at had four separate trannies with regulated outputs.

The 701/701T have a very light weight plastic bridge, with only a single locating screw a side and a cutaway (spoked) light metal clamp. Has TEAC's basic design philosophy suddenly taken a 180, or is it down to price? I'm not exactly sure which. They have paid attention to power supplies and make much of it in the blurb. I'm sure the servo board will be well designed and probably uses better parts, like the clock, than back in the day, but I worry about that basic VRDS engineering.

With that in mind, I personally made the decision to avoid the 701T and instead decided to buy an oldie but goodie VRDS transport and upgrade some of the internals.

I have an Esoteric P-700 Transport (same as TEAC P-700) on route from Australia, it uses a mid range VRDS mechanism.
I will fit the Tentlabs XO3.2 clock/PCB, with its on board SPIDIF output buffer and feed a new 75ohm BNC output socket direct from this. I'll leave the stock RCA and Toslink outputs in place, they will benefit from the clock upgrade and it allows some hook up flexibility, though I will only be using the newly created BNC output in my set up.
The XO3.2 will run off its own dedicated PSU, to keep the clock free from any artefacts in the main power rails.
I will look at the rectifiers and regulators on the main supply and possibly upgrade these.
The ultimate though, would be an external PSU and just feed clean DC into the Transport.
At first glance, looking at the Service Manual wiring diagram, there appears to be three requirements in the stock set up, +/-5Vdc +/-10Vdc both regulated and +/- 30Vdc unregulated. I would look at this in greater detail if changing anything.
It would be possible to externalise the fairly small stock Power PCB, but if I get that far, I may as well build a better power supply/s from scratch.
These mods, plus a total recap, which may be needed anyway, would leave me with a Transport of a high standard.
I chose the P-700 as the basis for my project, because I like the half width case format and it allows a separate PSU, up to half width, to fit on the same equipment shelf, should I go that route.

One thing to note about the old TEAC VRDS CD players, model VRDS 10/10SE/20/25 etc, is the digital and analogue circuits are on separate PCB's. So if you want to turn one into a Transport, you can very easily unplug and remove the DAC board and use the space for a better PSU etc.

Sorry to meander a bit from your question, it was my thought process, when deciding which direction to take on my own CD Transport quest and may be of general interest.

[Macca]

They probably didn't bother over-engineering the transport mech in the 701 as it makes bugger-all difference and would add a grand to the price.

I bought mine since I thought it was the best-looking new transport available, I didn't really have any other consideration.

I mean its a CD transport. It doesn't do much except read a disc. If I needed it to pull land rovers out of swamps I'd probably have considered the engineering side a bit more.:D

[Barry]

A well engineered laser mechanism can reduce jitter (typically from a few pico-seconds, down to tens of femto-seconds).

[Macca]

A well engineered laser mechanism can reduce jitter (typically from a few pico-seconds, down to tens of femto-seconds).

I take the view that jitter has never been audible even in the very first CD players.

[Qwin]

A well engineered laser mechanism can reduce jitter (typically from a few pico-seconds, down to tens of femto-seconds).

Yep, the Clock, its power supply and even the spindle/motor contribute to jitter.
If you break down the electronics involved in a CD Transport into processes, it is a very, very complicated piece of equipment.
I've just been trying to identify the SPDIF output on a 64 pin decoder chip and the Clock input on a 48 pin servo chip.
Turned out the clock crystal doesn't directly feed the Servo chip and goes through a data gate chip first.
Give me a record deck to work on any day. :D

[Qwin]

I take the view that jitter has never been audible even in the very first CD players.

The jitter itself is not audible, its many times beyond human hearing level. It's the result it has on bass definition, sound stage, transparency etc, which is audible.
A high level of jitter tends to sound muddy/smeared and can lack dynamics, makes a good CD sound like a badly mastered one.
This applies to anywhere in the chain, so DAC's and File based units are not immune.
Having said all that, even quite modest current production stuff is very good in this respect.
It tends to be models longer in the tooth that require attention.

[Macca]

vinyl and tape have magnitudes more jitter than even the worst CD player and those things are not an issue with those formats.

I'd suggest the worst problem you can have from CD is power supply noise bleeding into the signal, which you do see with some players (even expensive ones) which can be bad enough to cause the sort of effects you describe.

Really high levels of jitter just sound like tape wow, never an issue with CD.

[Qwin]

How can you have jitter in an analogue chain?
Its a different kind of distortion, but I suppose it can sound similar by the time it gets to the speakers/your ear.

[Macca]

How can you have jitter in an analogue chain?
Its a different kind of distortion, but I suppose it can sound similar by the time it gets to the speakers/your ear.

Jitters caused by inconsistency in the arrival time of information which is an issue with both vinyl and tape due to their lack of speed stability. Whether it's analogue or digital the signal is still just voltage varying with time.

[Qwin]

Jitters caused by inconsistency in the arrival time of information which is an issue with both vinyl and tape due to their lack of speed stability. Whether it's analogue or digital the signal is still just voltage varying with time.

Everything is effected by time delay, even when I drink a pint, don't think I would call my experience jitter, possibly DT's.:D

[Barry]

Analogue "jitter" is called 'wow and flutter'.

[Gazjam]

100% agree about electrical noise from power supply.
Even bleeding from elsewhere (ugh...) noise can cause big problems.

Found the biggest gains in my system tackling that specifically.




vinyl and tape have magnitudes more jitter than even the worst CD player and those things are not an issue with those formats.

I'd suggest the worst problem you can have from CD is power supply noise bleeding into the signal, which you do see with some players (even expensive ones) which can be bad enough to cause the sort of effects you describe.

Really high levels of jitter just sound like tape wow, never an issue with CD.

[Jimbo]

Anyone know if the CDM4/21 Phillips transport is any good. It looks like a solid bit of engineering to me unlike the flimsy drawer mechanisms found on so many CDP.

[CageyH]

According to a thread on DIY Audio, the 4/21 seems to be quite a rare model.

[Jimbo]

According to a thread on DIY Audio, the 4/21 seems to be quite a rare model.

Yes there were any iterations of the CDM4 mechanism so this was just one implementation. It might be that it was a bespoke model for a particular manufacturer.

In general I believe the CDM4 was a robust transport?

[Barry]

The best site listing, and describing, all the Philips CD laser mechanisms is Hi Fi Advice. It is the most comprehensive site I know of.

But even there, there is no mention of a CD4-21, so it must be pretty rara avis!

[Qwin]

Yeh, many variants, some with plastic frame like the CDM4/21 and numbers, both lower and higher, with plastic or Die cast alloy.
The real gems are the CDM4/53 and CDM4/Industrial both built like tanks and used in comercial kit like CD jukbox's.
The Industrial was used in the famous Mark Levinson No31 Transport.
The CDM4/36Pro also great, there are many very good versions and even the most basic was a good mechanism with a glass laser.
To be honest the drawer is irrelevant, as once inside, the CD is lifted off the drawer and there is no physical contact once qued.
The drawer is more about confidence, pride of ownership and pleasure in use, as long as it doesn't rattle and cause vibration problems during play its ok.

This is my go-to site for CD transport mechanisms:
https://www.hifi-advice.com/blog/classics/digital-classics/marantz-philips-classics-2/philips-cdm-mechanisms-page-2-cdm-4-cdm-1-mkii-cdm-9/

Edit: you beat me to it Barry, with the site reference.

[Jimbo]

Yeh, many variants, some with plastic frame like the CDM4/21 and numbers, both lower and higher, with plastic or Die cast alloy.
The real gems are the CDM4/53 and CDM4/Industrial both built like tanks and used in comercial kit like CD jukbox's.
The Industrial was used in the famous Mark Levinson No31 Transport.
The CDM4/36Pro also great, there are many very good versions and even the most basic was a good mechanism with a glass laser.
To be honest the drawer is irrelevant, as once inside, the CD is lifted off the drawer and there is no physical contact once qued.
The drawer is more about confidence, pride of ownership and pleasure in use, as long as it doesn't rattle and cause vibration problems during play its ok.

This is my go-to site for CD transport mechanisms:
https://www.hifi-advice.com/blog/classics/digital-classics/marantz-philips-classics-2/philips-cdm-mechanisms-page-2-cdm-4-cdm-1-mkii-cdm-9/

Edit: you beat me to it Barry, with the site reference.

Thanks chaps but I did actually see the reviews of the CDM4 on that website. Nice site. Looks like there were a huge amount of variations of the CDM4 with some including die cast metal and plastic combinations. The reason I mention the CDM4/21 (and why it is difficult to find) was it was the mechanism used in the Meridian 206 CDP which I will be evaluating as a CD transport in the near future.

[mikeyb]

Any mech that passes the strawberry jam test should be fine

[emoji23]

[Jimbo]

Any mech that passes the strawberry jam test should be fine

[emoji23]

Depends how thick the Jam is!:lol:

[mikeyb]

Depends how thick the Jam is![emoji38][emoji23]

Homemade might be a struggle.

[Jimbo]

Another great TEAC VRDS T1 Tranport review.

https://www.stereophile.com/content/gramophone-dreams-88-teac-vrds-701t-cd-transport

[Qwin]

Another great TEAC VRDS T1 Tranport review.

https://www.stereophile.com/content/gramophone-dreams-88-teac-vrds-701t-cd-transport

Err, the review is for the 701T, an altogether different mechanism to the T1 James.

[Jimbo]

Err, the review is for the 701T, an altogether different mechanism to the T1 James.

Sorry my mistakes it is for the 701T. Meant to post this on Macca review page.

[Qwin]

:thumbsup: