Mains Cable Query.

[icehockeyboy]

I have no intention of starting a cable war, but I just wanted to gauge opinion on a couple of things mains lead related.

Firstly, who uses an aftermarket cable, and what make etc. And can you hear a difference?

Second, who doesn't, and why?

Fwiw, I do, but not really sure if I can hear a difference......


There, hope we all manage to play nicely! ��

[southall-1998]

I keep meaning to plug my AN ISIS mains into my kettle. Might improve the boil!

S.

[Gordon Steadman]

I tried a couple when someone on here was giving some 'end of rolls' away. Not one iota of difference was heard by anyone in the house.

All my equipment now has standard kettle leads on. The custom stuff, apart from making no difference, was so thick, stiff and unwieldy that I threw it straight in the bin.

[CageyH]

In a recent back to back test I could not hear a difference between aftermarket and standard.

Do standard cables from Amazon count as aftermarket, if so I use loads.
One thing that I am disappointed to say did make a difference, even if subtle, was a mains regenerator. I was hoping to send it back.....

[MikeMusic]

I assumed it was cobblers so I bought cheap on Ebay to start
We certainly could hear a difference and have upgraded many times.
Would not be without the big improvement in the sound they make

[Macca]

I have one, I don't know the make. I cannot hear any difference. I have heard very expensive systems with very expensive mains cables sound shit. That may not be the fault of the mains cables, indeed it almost certainly isn't, which begs the question 'why put lipstick on a pig?'. My view is that it is something to mess about with once you have really, really finished messing about with the stuff that certainly does matter.

[petrat]

Where we used to live, with an industrial estate close by, the mains was routinely noisy and always over 250 volts. I (thought I) could hear the effects of shielded, heavy-duty mains cables on CD players, but not really on any other kit. However, the use of a regenerator gave very noticable improvements across the board, for approximately the same expenditure as 3 fancy cables. Mind you, I was never convinced of the veracity of the earthing in that old house, so it's all situationally-dependant. At present location, fancy mains cables make no difference whatsoever.

[Audio Al]

As I have said before , How can a great big thick lead with hi end ends on it make a difference ,

1 , If your cabling in the house leading up to the plug socket is 50 / 40 / 60 year old std twin and earth
2 , Then you look inside your amp the other side of the mains lead and you have tiny thin wires

:scratch:

I don't get it , ( But Who an I :D )

I also witnessed a chap being sold a 1mtr length of mains cable at the national audio show for ---------------------------£130.00 :eek:

[Gordon Steadman]

As I have said before , How can a great big thick lead with hi end ends on it make a difference ,

1 , If your cabling in the house leading up to the plug socket is 50 / 40 / 60 year old std twin and earth
2 , Then you look inside your amp the other side of the mains lead and you have tiny thin wires

:scratch:

I don't get it , ( But Who an I :D )

I also witnessed a chap being sold a 1mtr length of mains cable at the national audio show for ---------------------------£130.00 :eek:

I can almost....almost see that a really badly designed piece of wire with loads of resistance/capacitance built in (or whatever technical stuff it may take), could affect the waveform reaching the equipment. P'raps people are hearing those tiny changes as improvements and they prefer the distortion.

[DSJR]

I use a Mark Grant mains cable (1m) for the downstairs system and do you know something? It works - in other words, it supplies the distribution block really well and I thought it was 'better' than the short home made cable used before;)

Up here, The NVA BMU is plugged into the wall socket (it has a rather thicker gauge mains cable than normal for this brand and no I don't know where it comes from) and everything else is connected to the BMU, which is internally hard-wired with solid gauge stiff wire.

[jandl100]

I'm a firm foo mains cable believer and have been for years.
I'm a fan of Nordost Blue Heaven (previously branded as Magus).

... although there is a new type in the post to me atm. I'm quite excited! :mental: :lol:

[cyclopse]

I'm a firm foo mains cable believer and have been for years.
I'm a fan of Nordost Blue Heaven (previously branded as Magus).

... although there is a new type in the post to me atm. I'm quite excited! :mental: :lol:

Nordost recommend upgrading mains cables first before interconnects and speaker cable. Mains is the foundation of the system. When your really into it you also change mains plug fuses or go over to Euro Schuko connectors. The icing on the cake is when you replace component internal fuses with Synergistic Black.

[Gordon Steadman]

All my cables have Schuko plugs but then I live in France. No fuses of any kind, no matter how exotic and expensive, just the circuit breakers at the consumer unit. If we do move back to the UK (or Scotland if it's independent by then) I'll keep the Schukos. If no fuses aren't better than special ones, then summat ain't right:)

Internal fuses... I try and hide my slightly lopsided grin:eyebrows:

[jandl100]

Nordost recommend upgrading mains cables first before interconnects and speaker cable.

A friend of mine is a firm foo fiend, in fact he's even pottier than me about it, and he agrees with that.
Personally I think that all cables are important - mains, i/c and speaker cables - and I have ny favourites for each that I am fairly loyal to.

[cyclopse]

Its absolutely fine if you want to run your system with kettle mains leads and budget interconnects, example here;-

https://www.amazon.co.uk/1m-TWIN-RCA-Cable-Premium/dp/B005ZPHKGW/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1479662540&sr=8-6&keywords=interconnect+cable+hifi

All I am saying is you will not get to experience your systems true potential.

[walpurgis]

Kettle leads are fine.

[Audio Al]

Its absolutely fine if you want to run your system with kettle mains leads and budget interconnects, example here;-

https://www.amazon.co.uk/1m-TWIN-RCA-Cable-Premium/dp/B005ZPHKGW/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1479662540&sr=8-6&keywords=interconnect+cable+hifi

All I am saying is you will not get to experience your systems true potential.

:wow: GOLD plated , must get me some of them :wow:

[brucew268]

I've tried probably four mains cables over the years, all in the under £150 range. For half of them I heard no difference. For the other half, the sound got a bit aggressive and lost nuance, so I've always returned them. But I just tried some Furutech FP-TCS21 (DIY) on a lark, and was very pleasantly surprised. Good improvement in space & dimensionality, with bass deepening whilst maintaining control and texture. I'm really liking the improvement in my sound. But they took many hours to burn in before they sounded this way.

[walpurgis]

Cables don't burn in.

[Ninanina]

I use a Mark Grant mains cable like this one:

https://markgrant.co.uk/mains-power/82-mark-grant-dsp-25-dual-screened-power-cable-silver-plated.html

I use that for the amp but the rest of the system uses standard stuff until I get round to replacing them with the above cable... I love Mark Grant cables of all kinds... :)

[brucew268]

Cables don't burn in.

You can believe what you want. I've had many experiences of the sound being significantly different after running them in for many hours. One sound initially, another sound after 40-100 hours on a space heater, another sound after playing music through them for another 40-70 hours. Definitely, on speaker cables and on these mains cables currently in use. No chance of brain adjustment, because I haven't entered the music room in between.

[Gordon Steadman]

:wow: GOLD plated , must get me some of them :wow:

Only gold? For that price I'd want rhodium at least:rolleyes:

[CageyH]

I use a Mark Grant mains cable like this one:

https://markgrant.co.uk/mains-power/82-mark-grant-dsp-25-dual-screened-power-cable-silver-plated.html

I use that for the amp but the rest of the system uses standard stuff until I get round to replacing them with the above cable... I love Mark Grant cables of all kinds... :)

Have you not tried a SLIC mains cable?

[Gordon Steadman]

Have you not tried a SLIC mains cable?

Where's the damned wooden spoon smiley when I want it?

[walpurgis]

One sound initially, another sound after 40-100 hours on a space heater.

:scratch:

[Ninanina]

Have you not tried a SLIC mains cable?

:doh: and some more :doh:

Definitely not at £800 a pop... :eek:

[CageyH]

£800?

I did not realise they were that expensive....

[Ninanina]

£800?

I did not realise they were that expensive....

Well £795 to be precise.. crazy...just crazy

[brucew268]

:scratch:

Are you having trouble identifying a "space heater," or how it would be employed in this scenario, or why instead of the amp, or that I experienced a difference? (The space heater was obviously employed with the mains cables, not the speaker cable.)

[walpurgis]

Are you having trouble identifying a "space heater," or how it would be employed in this scenario, or why instead of the amp, or that I experienced a difference? (The space heater was obviously employed with the mains cables, not the speaker cable.)

I thought you meant you were warming the cable with it.

[brucew268]

I thought you meant you were warming the cable with it.

:lol:

[walpurgis]

I wonder if anybody is using cryogenically treated, directional mains cables.

[Ninanina]

I thought you meant you were warming the cable with it.

That's what I thought.... :rfl::rfl:

[CageyH]

I wonder if anybody is using cryogenically treated, directional mains cables.

All mains cables are directional... ;)
I tried plugging my Schuko plug into the back of the amp, and try as I might, it just would not fit.

[walpurgis]

Right. That's enough. I'm just off to demagnetise my mains plug pins and then give 'em a good polish with Brasso! So There!!

(how do you polish the brass bits in the socket that the pins go into?)

[Macca]

(how do you polish the brass bits in the socket that the pins go into?)

Very carefully

[CageyH]

Right. That's enough. I'm just off to demagnetise my mains plug pins and then give 'em a good polish with Brasso! So There!!

(how do you polish the brass bits in the socket that the pins go into?)

Don't forget to wipe of the Brasso residue...

[Gordon Steadman]

Do I detect the merest hint of mockery here?

[walpurgis]

Heaven forbid! :eek:

[Gordon Steadman]

So, what it comes down to is the Craig - the OP - just has to give it a go and see if he can hear this non exist....oh sorry :D difference between mains cables:cool:

[Bigman80]

[B][/

I'm sure a difference occurred when I i installed a power conditioner. My TT needs less fine speed adjustment. Not sure about sound though. ]

[Macca]

I fancy I have heard differences in distribution blocks albeit tiny differences for the most part. So I'm not entirely sceptical about mains cables.

[julesd68]

I fancy I have heard differences in distribution blocks albeit tiny differences for the most part. So I'm not entirely sceptical about mains cables.

I liked what I heard when I bought a Russ Andrew mains block (second-hand of course!) but didn't hear a difference when trying some of his expensive mains cables in my system ...

[Macca]

I also bought a Russ Andrews mains block after satisfying myself that there was an improvement to be had. Not sure why that is audible to me but mains cables are not. I don't disregard the possibility it is my imagination, but I don't think it is.

[Gordon Steadman]

It will be interesting to see what happens when or if we return to the UK. The mains here is very quiet and perhaps the reason why the sound is clean whatever cable is attached. The Shukos no doubt help too.

It would also be interesting to know if those who believe that wire make a difference hear a change in actual sound or just improved clarity.

[walpurgis]

I don't think a mains block would hurt, but I seem to recall Krell saying something about mains conditioners being a big 'no no' with their amps, I suspect other makers may state similar.

[Bigman80]

I don't think a mains block would hurt, but I seem to recall Krell saying something about mains conditioners being a big 'no no' with their amps, I suspect other makers may state similar.
Hmm why would they be a no-no ? I shall investigate.

Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk

[Marco]

I'm a firm foo mains cable believer and have been for years.


Me too, but these days nothing too 'silly', and only when all other aspects of the system have been properly attended to. However, I've also had some surprising results recently with 'foo mains leads' in my home cinema system, where both PICTURE and sound quality were notably improved, when such was connected to my Sky box and Blu-ray player! :eek: ;)

This wee chap here did the bizzo: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/262498179609?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Relatively cheap as chips, but very effective, easily outperforming the stock wire supplied with the kit! :cool:

Marco.

[Macca]

I don't think a mains block would hurt, but I seem to recall Krell saying something about mains conditioners being a big 'no no' with their amps, I suspect other makers may state similar.

Plugging an integrated or power amp into any sort of mains block or 'cleaner' can have an adverse effect. Always straight into the wall or if you are loadsamoney, a proper mains regenerator.

If anyone reading this is doing that then fix it now! It isn't unsafe but you are probably killing the dynamics of your amp.

[Marco]

Sorry mate, have to disagree, as extensive experience in that area proves differently - and there are many reasons for that. Oh, I should add that by 'mains block', I'm talking about a decent one (designed for hi-fi purposes), like the sort Mark Grant sells, not the cheap shite you get from B&Q for plugging your lawn mower into! ;)

Marco.

[Macca]

Your set up with the Shuko thing is not just a mains block though. For the vast majority of us we have a standard mains set up and in that situation a power amp will perform better when it is not plugged into a mains block. I'm basing that on 30 years experience having owned at least 30 amplifiers in that time.

[Bigman80]

Plugging an integrated or power amp into any sort of mains block or 'cleaner' can have an adverse effect. Always straight into the wall or if you are loadsamoney, a proper mains regenerator.

If anyone reading this is doing that then fix it now! It isn't unsafe but you are probably killing the dynamics of your amp.
Well that's a concern. I had plans of running the amp through the conditioner. Why would it reduce the dynamics?

Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk

[Marco]

Your set up with the Shuko thing is not just a mains block though.

Indeed, but it shows that, when done right, a good block beats plugging straight into the wall ;)

In truth though, much depends on what the mains is like in your area, and also how much 'noisy shit' [electrical appliances using SMPS and mobile phones] in your house is polluting the existing mains supply feeding your hi-fi system, which well-designed mains blocks can help isolate.

Marco.

[Macca]

Well that's a concern. I had plans of running the amp through the conditioner. Why would it reduce the dynamics?

Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk

It restricts the amount of current that the amp can draw. (Technically that may be completely wrong but that us how it was explained to me). You might only notice it with a big dynamic swing in the music and the volume up a bit. You can get away with plugging into your conditioner but IMO it is sub-optimal.

[Bigman80]

I have a pair of JPW Sonatas for sale.
Im in walsall if you want to give them s go.
I'll let you know, thanks Conan

It restricts the amount of current that the amp can draw. (Technically that may be completely wrong but that us how it was explained to me). You might only notice it with a big dynamic swing in the music and the volume up a bit. You can get away with plugging into your conditioner but IMO it is sub-optimal.
Ok, that kinda makes sense.

Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk

[agk]

I'm curious as to what age bracket the two main camps in this debate/thinly veiled argument fall.

[CageyH]

Any recommendations for a good Schuko distribution block?
It will be plugged into my Power Inspired AG1500.

[jandl100]

I'm curious as to what age bracket the two main camps in this debate/thinly veiled argument fall.

I am old and wise. :lol:

... While Geoff is older and, err, differently opinioned... on pretty much everything! :eyebrows:

[jandl100]

Re: regenerators and high power amps.

Yep, ime they do not work well together. Straight from the wall is the way to go, as Martin says.
My lovely Krell KAV250a just turned into a limp rag when fed from my AG1500, as did the 300wpc APart Champ One, although to a lesser extent. Other, lower powered, amps have benefited from the regenerator, though. I suspect that it does come down to current draw limitations and more powerful amps get strangled.

[CageyH]

The AG1500 delivers 6A continuous and 12A momentary peak.
If your system uses any where near those figures, then it is going to suffer if connected to an AG1500.

[Gordon Steadman]

I'm curious as to what age bracket the two main camps in this debate/thinly veiled argument fall.

Foo and snake oil have been around for as long as their have been marketing men. So the fact that I am 70 next year has little effect on that.

In my 20's and 30's I use to be very unkind to friends who bought into the whole thing whilst agreeing with Mr Walker myself. I have seen or heard nothing to change my mind in the intervening years.

However, each to their own and people can spend their hard earned on anything they choose if it makes them happy. There are people out there who believe absolutely in all sort of stuff that I consider nonsense but 'twas ever thus. To their faces I nod sagely and silently mock them inside.

I was always an unpleasant git:lol:

[The Black Adder]

Any recommendations for a good Schuko distribution block?
It will be plugged into my Power Inspired AG1500.

Mark Grant could make you one. All hard wired, gold contact plugs too!

[icehockeyboy]

Surely this post has the most response in any given time......is there an award for it? :):)

[jandl100]

Surely this post has the most response in any given time......is there an award for it? :):)

Well, a Cable War is always popular. :thumbsup:

[Sovereign]

Surely this post has the most response in any given time......is there an award for it? :):)

I'm just amazed at how civil the thread has been, even when NVA was mentioned ������

[bronzeage]

I recently switched to a Studio Connections mains cable from my home-made Furutech effort (which bettered others I had before)

Gosh-darn-it, I can't explain why, though the box does go on about carbon diffusing noise or something like that, but with either amplifier or dac, the sound is a lot clearer and imaging depth in particular gets a real boost.

Maybe I have terrible mains, but switching back and forth, the differences are stark and obvious.
Kettle leads in comparison sound relatively dead and lifeless.

You know what - maybe the best thing to do is just stick with whatever you have, you won't miss what you don't know about, I find that short of something that aggravates your ears, you can adapt to anything.

Then again, that would take all the fun out of our hobby.

[Gordon Steadman]

I recently switched to a Studio Connections mains cable from my home-made Furutech effort (which bettered others I had before)

Gosh-darn-it, I can't explain why, though the box does go on about carbon diffusing noise or something like that, but with either amplifier or dac, the sound is a lot clearer and imaging depth in particular gets a real boost.

Maybe I have terrible mains, but switching back and forth, the differences are stark and obvious.
Kettle leads in comparison sound relatively dead and lifeless.

You know what - maybe the best thing to do is just stick with whatever you have, you won't miss what you don't know about, I find that short of something that aggravates your ears, you can adapt to anything.

Then again, that would take all the fun out of our hobby.

This is probably the main point. For many, it's much more about getting a 'sound' they like rather than about the music. Sorry if that sounds patronising, it isn't meant to be but there are definitely two distinct sides to this hobby.

In my other hobby of slot racing - which is also male dominated - there is the same sort of split. There are those for whom all that matters is that the car is as accurate as possible, with every feature modelled, every decal applied in exactly the right place and if they find any imperfection, they scrap it all and start again. I just wanna race and beat the other buggers who think they can outdrive me!!

The two sides have a sort of uneasy coexistence but still think of themselves as having the same hobby. Sound familiar?

[jandl100]

... although there is a new type in the post to me atm. I'm quite excited! :mental: :lol:

The postman cometh - and it's arrived. :yay:

Missing Link Cryo Reference (£250 rrp :lol: -- although I paid a lot less ;))
-- oooo, nice. Compared to my already very fine Nordost Blue Heaven, at 1st blush it allows a noticeably more transparent, detailed and 'present' sound.
I think I am going to enjoy this one. :)

And yes, Gordon, it is ALL about getting more from the music. :thumbsup:

[walpurgis]

This is what you need :D

http://i67.tinypic.com/t0gnxi.jpg

[struth]

This is what you need :D

http://i67.tinypic.com/t0gnxi.jpg

+++111. All i ever use now. Tried a couple of fancies but sounded same to me. Regenerators and filters on other hand can help. And do to me due to noisy and high at times mains. But can quite understand others who s experience is different. If it works for you then fine.

[CageyH]

Pop it in the freezer for 20 hours and see if it sounds better?

[walpurgis]

Or on top of a space heater to burn it in. ;)

[Gordon Steadman]

And yes, Gordon, it is ALL about getting more from the music. :thumbsup:

I'm sure that's how it starts out for most people................:)

[bronzeage]

This is probably the main point. For many, it's much more about getting a 'sound' they like rather than about the music. Sorry if that sounds patronising, it isn't meant to be but there are definitely two distinct sides to this hobby.

In my other hobby of slot racing - which is also male dominated - there is the same sort of split. There are those for whom all that matters is that the car is as accurate as possible, with every feature modelled, every decal applied in exactly the right place and if they find any imperfection, they scrap it all and start again. I just wanna race and beat the other buggers who think they can outdrive me!!

The two sides have a sort of uneasy coexistence but still think of themselves as having the same hobby. Sound familiar?

Oh, for sure, I get exactly what you mean. What I meant to say is, yes, for me the 'other' cables do improve the music, but they aren't exactly cheap, and should not be viewed as something you can't live without. I can listen to music through the cheap speakers in most shops and enjoy it plenty, I just enjoy it more with said cables.

If it works for you, and you like the sound, and you are prepared to bear the cost, it's buyer's choice, and buyer beware. You could say the same for any component.

I would rather win in a junk-pile than lose in a Ferrari, but winning in a Ferrari is better still.

What is a Ferrari in hi-fi terms though, is something nobody can agree on - you can't race two rigs against each other, apart from loudness and I guess distortion. Or more likely, I am talking rubbish!:lol:

[archiesdad]

I'm using Mark Grant leads bought on eBay for a reasonable sum and they work fine, although I use Studio Connections speaker cable which i like the sound of, so like someone earlier I might try to source a couple of cables by them to try.
Some interesting/funny replies here, all good natured, everyone in good mood?

[57charles]

I replaced my Chord Signature speaker cable (rip off) with Belkin Pure AV - which cost me precisely 1/100th the cost of the Chord - and it sounds just as good - in other words, no difference.

[Macca]

I replaced my Chord Signature speaker cable (rip off) with Belkin Pure AV - which cost me precisely 1/100th the cost of the Chord - and it sounds just as good - in other words, no difference.

I have the Belkin Pure AV cable and Chord Odyssey 2 and I fancy I can hear a difference although so small that I might doubt I could pass a blind test. Still, I have a preference betwixt them.

[walpurgis]

Some interesting/funny replies here, all good natured, everyone in good mood?

So far. Even if some of it is a load of old boll........;)