KEITH MONKS ELF MAJOR ( KMAL ) loudspeakers

[andyrlb]

Morning guys ,
Any of you lovely people know anything about these ? Are they worth a 2 hour drive to collect?
apparently they are mint .18540

[walpurgis]

Those are pretty rare. Keith Monks turned out some decent speakers (and an interesting tonearm). They are certainly worth trying if the price is sensible. I personally would not value them at more than maybe £100 to £150. Anything less is a bonus.

[walpurgis]

I looked at the ad (yes I found it :)). I'd say grab them at that price.

[andyrlb]

Hi , yes that's the ad , guess it's a road trip then . Cheers guys .

[karma67]

lol be quick as im nearer!

[walpurgis]

You may need DIN speaker plugs for those. At that time (I'd say later seventies), many speakers still used DIN inputs. Not a big deal and they can be updated with modern terminals if need be.

[andyrlb]

Hi Jamie , hands off !!! I'll drop in for coffee and demo them on my return??����

[andyrlb]

Beginning to think is it worth it , think they are incredibly low wattage too .

[karma67]

lol no worries mate,im just pulling your chain,id say for the money you cant go wrong!
the quality of the veneering alone tells me they are good.
post some pics when you get them :)

[walpurgis]

They should go plenty loud enough. The tweeter is an Isophon unit as used by Monitor Audio back then and the mid is an EMI, similar the the unit in many of the IMF speakers. The bass driver, I'm not sure. Could be Audax or Peerless maybe. They are good quality speakers.

[andyrlb]

My Thoughts exactly Jamie , yeah I'll put some pics . Cheers

[andyrlb]

Thanks Walpurgis, you always come to my aid , cheers

[walpurgis]

Having had a closer look, it would appear that the bass driver is an EMI unit too. An 8" high power model with partly doped cone. Should be decent.

[andyrlb]

Well intrigue now has me more interested, cheers

[andyrlb]

Any of you guys want to get these in my place ? I've got a heavy night ahead ( wife's 50th ) and I really don't fancy the drive now tomorrow morning.
Pm me and I'll pass on the details.

[andyrlb]

If any of you guys want to get these instead of myself please let me know , it's collection tomorrow morning in Kent

[karma67]

i'll give them a try if you dont mind :)

[andyrlb]

Ok mate , do you want to go as Andy ?

[Martyn Miles]

I've seen these on Gumtree.
Tempting, eh ?

[karma67]

im off to get them tomorrow mate :)

[Martyn Miles]

i'm off to get them tomorrow mate :)

Good luck..

[karma67]

first thanks to andy for passing these on to me,cheers mate!
a quick trip up the m25 to pick these up today.
they are in extremely good condition, circa 1970?
a 3 way speaker that if the record cleaning machines are any thing to go on are very good.
bugger all on the web about them too.

here they are at home,im listening to them now and although they aren't 66 killers they are very much like ditton 44's,being used to the 66's means im used to big bass,obviously these aren't on par but the bass is there just not as much,both mid and hf are good.

https://c6.staticflickr.com/6/5821/30328592533_e75300be0a_z.jpgIMG_1009 by jamie creighton, on Flickr (https://c6.staticflickr.com/6/5821/30328592533_e75300be0a_z.jpgIMG_1009 by jamie , on Flickr)

https://c5.staticflickr.com/6/5633/30314542644_9e1583ec26_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/NbMXom)IMG_1010 (https://flic.kr/p/NbMXom) by jamie (https://www.flickr.com/photos/145822004@N02/), on Flickr

on tracks i know well there is some subtle detail missing that i can hear through the 66's,i should stop comparing them as its not a fair fight.

here's some pics of the drivers.

https://c7.staticflickr.com/6/5663/30314514934_30b7a3ba86_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/NbMP9A)IMG_1019 (https://flic.kr/p/NbMP9A) by jamie (https://www.flickr.com/photos/145822004@N02/), on Flickr

https://c8.staticflickr.com/6/5492/31135478695_869acc8a6b_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/Prkt5c)IMG_1021 (https://flic.kr/p/Prkt5c) by jamie (https://www.flickr.com/photos/145822004@N02/), on Flickr


all in all im very pleased with them,they may be better suited to my small flat,the stands are cool too. :)

https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5688/31021957561_075ee65a18_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/PgiDcg)IMG_1022[1] (https://flic.kr/p/PgiDcg) by jamie (https://www.flickr.com/photos/145822004@N02/), on Flickr

[andyrlb]

Very smart Jamie and those stands look like quality too .

[Martyn Miles]

KM made other ELF models.
I recall them in a Hi Fi Yearbook from the Seventies.

[karma67]

i had a look at the drivers last night,the bass driver has a pressed steel basket,does this mean its pants?

[Gordon Steadman]

Don't think so. I think if it sounds crap it's pants:)

[Macca]

Any driver is fine unless it is being asked to do something it can't do.

What do they sound like then?

[karma67]

cheers guys,as geoff mentioned earlier the tweeter is an isophon,in fact id put money on it being the same as the one used in the ms-pageant series 2.
here's one of the mid,
https://c7.staticflickr.com/6/5540/30793100870_a3ab5b9782_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/NV5G5f)IMG_1023 (https://flic.kr/p/NV5G5f) by jamie (https://www.flickr.com/photos/145822004@N02/), on Flickr

and one of the bass driver,

https://c6.staticflickr.com/6/5684/31046514581_069f8c627e_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/Pitv9a)IMG_1033 (https://flic.kr/p/Pitv9a) by jamie (https://www.flickr.com/photos/145822004@N02/), on Flickr

and one of the crossover,

https://c3.staticflickr.com/6/5723/31124792786_8ab6f47006_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/PqoGwo)IMG_1032 (https://flic.kr/p/PqoGwo) by jamie (https://www.flickr.com/photos/145822004@N02/), on Flickr

they sound good,their are very much like pageant 2's with a bit of ditton 44's thrown in,or at least thats what they remind me off,warm sound and non fatiguing

[struth]

i had a look at the drivers last night,the bass driver has a pressed steel basket,does this mean its pants?

Not really. a lot of smaller ones are(probably most). Diecast ali ones are a lot more accurate fit and that oft helps magnetic flux patterns etc, and conduct heat more efficiently. sturdier if heavy magnets are fitted. Think alnico ones are better with diecast

[walpurgis]

Can't grumble at a nifty really. The drive units are all decent quality. I'd expect them to sound OK. KM speakers were not at all bad. Neither were they particularly cheap.

[djdstone]

How did they sound?

[57charles]

I too, would love to know how they sound. I'm absolutely fascinated by British speaker 'box stuffers' from the 70's and early 80's. Fascinated that many 'stuffers' used the same drivers yet sounded completely different. These are especially interesting in that I've never seen such a combination of drivers. The tweeter was, I believe, quite popular with many 'manufacturers' - I've seen them on Monitor Audio, Mordaunt Short (I believe) and RAM to name but three. I've only ever seen that mid on IMF's and never seen the bass unit on anything else.
Regarding the Isophon, I read somewhere that this tweeter became unavailable due to a chemical leak at the factory - whether this is true or not, I don't know. I do know that both RAM and Monitor Audio replaced them with an Audax soft dome - RAM in the RAM 1 and Bookshelf Monitor and Monitor Audio in the MA4 which became MA4 series 2 with the Audax soft dome. And I can say from personal listening experience at that time that all 3 newer Audax versions of the aforementioned speakers sounded inferior to the Isophon versions - they all had a kind of 'zingy' presentation - not harsh but not 'right' - in my opinion. Of course, that was my opinion - others may disagree.
I'm not sure I really particularly enjoyed listening to any speaker that employed that tweeter. It didn't even sound right in the Audiomaster MLS4 and if Robin Marshall couldn't get it 'right' at the time, then one wonders if anyone did.
Sorry, I digress.
Back to the KM's - one wonders if Keith Monks themselves would be interested in them - surely they're a rare museum piece.
I would have loved to have heard them but I live too far away.

[spendorman]

EMI bass unit, pretty sure of that.

[karma67]

yep your right,they sound good,its just a shame they dont come close to the ditton 66's i use.
which kinda leaves me wondering why i bought them lol

[Arkless Electronics]

I too, would love to know how they sound. I'm absolutely fascinated by British speaker 'box stuffers' from the 70's and early 80's. Fascinated that many 'stuffers' used the same drivers yet sounded completely different. These are especially interesting in that I've never seen such a combination of drivers. The tweeter was, I believe, quite popular with many 'manufacturers' - I've seen them on Monitor Audio, Mordaunt Short (I believe) and RAM to name but three. I've only ever seen that mid on IMF's and never seen the bass unit on anything else.
Regarding the Isophon, I read somewhere that this tweeter became unavailable due to a chemical leak at the factory - whether this is true or not, I don't know. I do know that both RAM and Monitor Audio replaced them with an Audax soft dome - RAM in the RAM 1 and Bookshelf Monitor and Monitor Audio in the MA4 which became MA4 series 2 with the Audax soft dome. And I can say from personal listening experience at that time that all 3 newer Audax versions of the aforementioned speakers sounded inferior to the Isophon versions - they all had a kind of 'zingy' presentation - not harsh but not 'right' - in my opinion. Of course, that was my opinion - others may disagree.
I'm not sure I really particularly enjoyed listening to any speaker that employed that tweeter. It didn't even sound right in the Audiomaster MLS4 and if Robin Marshall couldn't get it 'right' at the time, then one wonders if anyone did.
Sorry, I digress.
Back to the KM's - one wonders if Keith Monks themselves would be interested in them - surely they're a rare museum piece.
I would have loved to have heard them but I live too far away.

My own experience is the exact opposite! I've never much liked the Isophon unit and I believe it has a reputation for being "zingy". The Audax was one of my favourite tweeters at a reasonable price if it's the TW025 series we're talking about...

[57charles]

Yes the TW025. Many of these now suffer from a reduced output due to dried out ferro fluid gunge. Interestingly, you can now buy new replacements from Falcon. Absolutely ideal if you own a pair of RAM BSM Mk2's, Mini Bookshelf, later RAM 1, 100's, 150's and 200's however there's still the Dalesford units to consider if they need replacing as well. I lost count with the number of faulty Dalesford units we replaced under warranty...

[karma67]

Yesterday I sent an email to Keith monks and his son very kindly replied with some more info,

Dear Jamie -

Thanks for contacting - I thought I had the only surviving pair of Elf Majors on the planet, but now I know we have to share that honour !

This is what I have gathered, from growing up with it all, and anecdotal bits and pieces since.
All Keith Monks Elf (and later, Pixie) speakers were co-designed and built for Keith Monks Audio by Keesonic in Maidenhead Berks.
From 1969 and for the next ten years or so, a number of models were made available and at one time and before there were trade/mag awards for such things, several were generally regarded as contenders for best budget speaker.

Another interesting diversion for the Elf Minor (the little brother of ours) and by far the biggest selling version, was the development of an active/powered version. The second major joint development project between Keith Monks and the BBC - the first of course being the Record Cleaning Machine - the LS1/8 featured a 0dB balanced line.input with volume control and from the mid 1970s until the early 1990s, it became the standard broadcast monitoring speaker (and I suspect, something of an executive toy) for BBC managers in their offices.

Google any of the above - there's a lot of information out there about all of it.
Hope that gives you something to go on. Happy listening !

Best -

Jonathan Monks
Keith Monks Audio Works

[57charles]

Very interesting. Thanks for posting that. With the Keesonic connection, they certainly have a pedigree because Keesonic were well thought of. Pity the Keesonic designer has recently passed away - he could probably have told us more. You have an (almost) unique piece of hi-fi history there. If you don't keep them, I hope they go to safe hands. I can't help thinking that those mids will appeal to IMF restorers and they'll be lost forever.

[karma67]

cheers,its amazing what a bit of detective work can bring up,knowing that they are rare i'll keep hold of them,they are in such good condition it would be a shame to have someone break up the drivers for spares.

[andyrlb]

Currently at £300 on the bay and rising ---- it !!!

[karma67]

yes thats shocked me too,i set the reserve high as i would rather keep them than let them go for silly money.i have a sneaky suspicion the highest bidder is the guy from keith monks audio as he shares the same initials,i may be wrong though.

[struth]

Could easily be jamie. He will want both sets for various reasons i guess.

[karma67]

if it is it seems fitting they should go back home so to speak.