View Full Version : Thorens TD 125 MK1
Hi all,
Having been reinvigorated by my new digital front end, I've invested in the above turntable from the kindly hifi-dave. I don't have an arm or cartridge at present and so here I am! What does anyone recommend? I'll be using the phono stage in my Luxman L-507uX. I do have an option on an SME 3009, but don't know when/if that'll be. Any ideas would be welcome. Also any tips for getting the best out of this deck please?
Thanks in advance...
if you can get a 3009 at a good price, its a great arm. hard to beat really, both performance and looks
hifi_dave
11-11-2016, 18:16
I found 2 x 3009 Imp today.
I found 2 x 3009 Imp today.
Awesome! I'll give you a call Dave, thank you...
CornishPasty
11-11-2016, 23:40
TD125/3009/V15III is a classic combination if that's your thing. Its forty odd years since I first heard this combination and it still does it for me.
TD125/3009/V15III is a classic combination if that's your thing. Its forty odd years since I first heard this combination and it still does it for me.
Thanks for that. Can anyone think of anything else worthwhile to use on the 125? Is it limited to the SME or Rega? Or is there something worth considering like the Jelco 750D perhaps? I need advice on the cartridge too, please if you can. I don't want to go completely mad though. I don't have many records at the moment, just 60 or 70 of varying degrees of quality.. most bought when I left school mid 80's, so you can just imagine! :lol:
Thanks all
killie99
12-11-2016, 16:12
The jelko 750 works a treat on a TD125. In my opinion it's miles better than a 3009.
The jelko 750 works a treat on a TD125. In my opinion it's miles better than a 3009.
Thank you, which cartridge suits it well do you think?
killie99
12-11-2016, 18:39
I use a Shure V15iii with a Jico SAS (and an Oyaide HS-TF headshell), it sounds stunningly good.
The TD125 is a superb deck, and deserves a good arm and cart. I've had three over the years with a range of arms, incl. a 3009 (non-improved). Other arms I've tried have included the Michell Technoarm and Audio Note Arm3, both of which easily bettered the 3009. I would also second the Jelco (I have two here at the moment), but would caution that whatever you get, you will need a very flexible cable, so as not to interfere with the suspension. The Technoarm is good in that respect btw.
If you go for the Jelco, from experience I'd enthusiastically recommend an Audio Note IQ1, if you're prepared to stretch to £300ish. It's a bit stiffer than most moving magnet carts, is a superb match for the Jelco, and is just a better cartridge than any cheap moving coil alternative I've tried/heard. Replaceable stylus keeps long-term running costs down, too.
That sodding Thorens was mine and I used a Rega R200 on it with great pleasure - the cable tie anchors are still there inside from the Audio origami exit cable I have.. It's the sodding Thorens because I really wanted it back, but funds didn't permit and I have the everlasting Dual 701 in any case, which is very good and auto too... This 125 has a superb bearing with proper oil in it and it runs totally silently through the stylus.
So yeah, a Rega tonearm will drop right in. There's a chap in the US on eBay who supplied the board and he does SME cut ones as well.
The tyre around the platter makes no audible difference, but it made the platter look better - polish the edge as some do and you have a millstone for ever, as you need to keep polishing every few months.
The ribbed mat sounds just fine, although I used a Spacemat on top too. The mk2 Thorens mat is awful and best avoided.
One spring is permanently kinked, probably at the factory, to aid centring. I was going to fit LP12 springs, as the suspended masses are about the same, unlike the TD160, but never bothered. The final 1mm of 'bounce' is all important, and this deck is fine here.
In the meantime, happy memories...
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/DSJR_photos/DSCF0568_zpsg5lneia2.jpg (http://s132.photobucket.com/user/DSJR_photos/media/DSCF0568_zpsg5lneia2.jpg.html)
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/DSJR_photos/e0697d16.jpg (http://s132.photobucket.com/user/DSJR_photos/media/e0697d16.jpg.html)
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/DSJR_photos/TD125withR200withDecca.jpg (http://s132.photobucket.com/user/DSJR_photos/media/TD125withR200withDecca.jpg.html)
I never knew it was yours David. It is really nice and silent too. Thank you Petrat for your suggestions. You don't want to sell one of your Jelco arms do you? The Audio note cartridge is something I'll look into also...thanks mate.
So I'm leaning towards a Jelco 750E, 10", arm at the moment. With the Oyaide headshell, Timestep cable and ammonite collar. Mostly from Ammonite acoustics.
Does anyone have any experience with this setup on the 125 please? Will it fit ok? Also I'm thinking of the Denon 103R, but I read somewhere it can be a bit bright....I hate bright! I love detail, but it needs to be natural and even, without any harshness/brightness. Any thoughts/alternatives would be much appreciated, thank you.
So I'm leaning towards a Jelco 750E, 10", arm at the moment. With the Oyaide headshell, Timestep cable and ammonite collar. Mostly from Ammonite acoustics.
Does anyone have any experience with this setup on the 125 please? Will it fit ok? Also I'm thinking of the Denon 103R, but I read somewhere it can be a bit bright....I hate bright! I love detail, but it needs to be natural and even, without any harshness/brightness. Any thoughts/alternatives would be much appreciated, thank you.
ZU Denon 103 mkII for sale on the Wam a couple of weeks ago, it would be excellent IF your arm can take 14g cartridge. I had a mark I and it was superb, kind of regretting selling it to be honest as I've not found anything to match it yet.
ZU Denon 103 mkII for sale on the Wam a couple of weeks ago, it would be excellent IF your arm can take 14g cartridge. I had a mark I and it was superb, kind of regretting selling it to be honest as I've not found anything to match it yet.
Yes, I saw that. Is it much better than the standard 103/R? I'll contact him now and see if it's still available...Thank you.
Ammonite Audio
20-11-2016, 11:35
ZU Denon 103 mkII for sale on the Wam a couple of weeks ago, it would be excellent IF your arm can take 14g cartridge. I had a mark I and it was superb, kind of regretting selling it to be honest as I've not found anything to match it yet.
New Jelco arms all come with the heavy counterweight as well as the standard one, so no problem balancing out one of these.
Stryder5
20-11-2016, 13:03
I use a Linn Akito, AT440mlb, sounds fabulous, AT did take 50 or so hours to break in. I found the tonearm lead made quite a positive change. Van Damme twisted pair ultra pure silver plated OFC with KLEI copper harmony plugs.
Top end now sparkles and bottom end deep and full of timbre
Yes, I saw that. Is it much better than the standard 103/R? I'll contact him now and see if it's still available...Thank you.
Not heard a 103r but I bet it sounds way better
The Thorens uses a soft narrow and stretchy belt, which needs replacing every thousand hours or less as it stretches. Not sure how dynamic wow (a problem with springy belt drives including the LP12 for some...) would be with a 3g tracker. The 125 and close relatives came along as sub 2g tracking weights became commonplace I remember.
ZU Denon 103 mkII for sale on the Wam a couple of weeks ago, it would be excellent IF your arm can take 14g cartridge. I had a mark I and it was superb, kind of regretting selling it to be honest as I've not found anything to match it yet.
He's just got back to me and it's sold apparently. Thanks for the heads up though... So back to square one. At least the arms ordered anyway..
He's just got back to me and it's sold apparently. Thanks for the heads up though... So back to square one. At least the arms ordered anyway..
Ah, pity I nearly bought it myself but it didn't really match my 774 arm, I bought an AT33PTG and 2m Black instead.
Not fully listened to yet.
Anyone seen this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/Jelco-SA-750E-Custom-Designed-Phono-Cartridge-Stylus-Alignment-Protractor/112089537076?hlpht=true&ops=true&viphx=1&_trksid=p5197.c100068.m2280&_trkparms=ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140211130857%26meid%3Dc 8871c46bc974726b12b29f9250f643c%26pid%3D100068%26c lkid%3D605150974408616227&_qi=RTM2063723 and know if it's any good please?
Arkless Electronics
21-11-2016, 13:26
Replace the 709 op amp on the speed control board. They can give trouble.
Personally I would not recommend the SME 3009 in any form... A poor sounding but lovely looking arm.
Replace the 709 op amp on the speed control board. They can give trouble.
Personally I would not recommend the SME 3009 in any form... A poor sounding but lovely looking arm.
I've ordered the Jelco 750E (10") arm, should be with me tomorrow. I've also been recommended the AT33EV cartridge, what does anyone think of this? Is it a good match? Or should I stick to the Denon 103R?
Thank you
killie99
21-11-2016, 18:21
Anyone seen this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/Jelco-SA-750E-Custom-Designed-Phono-Cartridge-Stylus-Alignment-Protractor/112089537076?hlpht=true&ops=true&viphx=1&_trksid=p5197.c100068.m2280&_trkparms=ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140211130857%26meid%3Dc 8871c46bc974726b12b29f9250f643c%26pid%3D100068%26c lkid%3D605150974408616227&_qi=RTM2063723 and know if it's any good please?
Hmm, 20 odd quid for something you can print off yourself? Get Conrad's arc template generator from here http://conradhoffman.com/chsw.htm , spindle to pivot distance '214', 'DIN', 'Stevenson A', 'Print Arm template' pop a sheet of good quality photo paper in your printer and off you go. edit: just saw it's the 10" arm you've ordered so it's '240', 'DIN' 'Lofgren A' you need
Hmm, 20 odd quid for something you can print off yourself? Get Conrad's arc template generator from here http://conradhoffman.com/chsw.htm , spindle to pivot distance '214', 'DIN', 'Stevenson A', 'Print Arm template' pop a sheet of good quality photo paper in your printer and off you go. edit: just saw it's the 10" arm you've ordered so it's '240', 'DIN' 'Lofgren A' you need
That's great, thanks mate!
Floyddroid
21-11-2016, 21:50
Absolutely gorgeous. Often fancied one of these. I don't think i have ever heard a Thorens that i didn't like. I have an R200 kicking around in need of rewiring. Be a nice project to get hold of one of these beauties and bolt it on.
That sodding Thorens was mine and I used a Rega R200 on it with great pleasure - the cable tie anchors are still there inside from the Audio origami exit cable I have.. It's the sodding Thorens because I really wanted it back, but funds didn't permit and I have the everlasting Dual 701 in any case, which is very good and auto too... This 125 has a superb bearing with proper oil in it and it runs totally silently through the stylus.
So yeah, a Rega tonearm will drop right in. There's a chap in the US on eBay who supplied the board and he does SME cut ones as well.
The tyre around the platter makes no audible difference, but it made the platter look better - polish the edge as some do and you have a millstone for ever, as you need to keep polishing every few months.
The ribbed mat sounds just fine, although I used a Spacemat on top too. The mk2 Thorens mat is awful and best avoided.
One spring is permanently kinked, probably at the factory, to aid centring. I was going to fit LP12 springs, as the suspended masses are about the same, unlike the TD160, but never bothered. The final 1mm of 'bounce' is all important, and this deck is fine here.
In the meantime, happy memories...
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/DSJR_photos/DSCF0568_zpsg5lneia2.jpg (http://s132.photobucket.com/user/DSJR_photos/media/DSCF0568_zpsg5lneia2.jpg.html)
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/DSJR_photos/e0697d16.jpg (http://s132.photobucket.com/user/DSJR_photos/media/e0697d16.jpg.html)
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/DSJR_photos/TD125withR200withDecca.jpg (http://s132.photobucket.com/user/DSJR_photos/media/TD125withR200withDecca.jpg.html)
Lagavulin
21-11-2016, 21:59
I've ordered the Jelco 750E (10") arm, should be with me tomorrow. I've also been recommended the AT33EV cartridge, what does anyone think of this? Is it a good match? Or should I stick to the Denon 103R?
Thank you
Hi,
I have three Thorens decks including a TD125 which I love - it's mounted in quite a heavy walnut plinth and I have since added a modified Rega arm with which I have used a trio of AT MC cartridges - currently my 33PTGII, but also my AT33EV and my original OC9. They all sound good to my ears - detailed but relaxed (at least compared to the Denon 103 fitted to my Lenco GL59). Never had the 103R so can't offer an opinion but can only guess it will better the standard 103 and I wouldn't be without that on the Lenco - the sound maybe less refined but it is so vibrant or urgent for a better word.
I think that you are in for a treat whether you go for an AT cartridge or the 103R - just a different presentation.
George
Lagavulin
22-11-2016, 10:01
Here's an old photo with the three thorens decks posing :-)
http://i896.photobucket.com/albums/ac166/gmc4u2/Knaresborough/IMG_00000004_zpse2fe2990.jpg (http://s896.photobucket.com/user/gmc4u2/media/Knaresborough/IMG_00000004_zpse2fe2990.jpg.html)
Floyddroid
22-11-2016, 10:59
Here's an old photo with the three thorens decks posing :-)
http://i896.photobucket.com/albums/ac166/gmc4u2/Knaresborough/IMG_00000004_zpse2fe2990.jpg (http://s896.photobucket.com/user/gmc4u2/media/Knaresborough/IMG_00000004_zpse2fe2990.jpg.html)
Thorens porn. Wicked. Fabulous view too. Fab place.
Very nice! Thanks for the info on the cartridges too Lagavulin. I'm leaning toward the AT33EV, as I can't abide anything bright. Dave at Sound Hi-Fi recommended that one to me. I'm intrigued by the Zyx R-50 Bloom 2 though, if I could get that at a good, REALLY GOOD, price... :lol: I've already spent way more than I wanted to, but isn't that always the case? My 10" Jelco has just arrived, thank you Hugo for such good service!
So before I pull the trigger, does anyone else have any final recommendations for a detailed, yet natural and certainly not bright sounding cart please?
Thanks everyone again thus far.
hifi_dave
22-11-2016, 11:50
Hana will do the job. Full bodied, sweet, dynamic and very good value.
Hana will do the job. Full bodied, sweet, dynamic and very good value.
:lol: That's really funny! I've just sent you an email to ask you the self same question about the Hana SL! Will it work into my Luxman? The MC input is 0.3 Mv and 100 ohm. The SL is 0.5 Mv and Hana recommend 400 ohm... I have no idea about any of these things! Thanks for the input.. no pun intended... ;)
Lagavulin
22-11-2016, 17:41
Very nice! Thanks for the info on the cartridges too Lagavulin. I'm leaning toward the AT33EV, as I can't abide anything bright. Dave at Sound Hi-Fi recommended that one to me. I'm intrigued by the Zyx R-50 Bloom 2 though, if I could get that at a good, REALLY GOOD, price... :lol: I've already spent way more than I wanted to, but isn't that always the case? My 10" Jelco has just arrived, thank you Hugo for such good service!
So before I pull the trigger, does anyone else have any final recommendations for a detailed, yet natural and certainly not bright sounding cart please?
Thanks everyone again thus far.
I don't think you can go wrong with the AT33EV, it's incredibly civilised, and certainly not bright. But then again the beauty of it is that you have a great deck, and now arm, and any of the suggestions so far are only going to bring a smile to your face - good hunting!
Here's a more recent shot of my TD125 together with blingy Rega arm and AT33PTGII ....
http://i896.photobucket.com/albums/ac166/gmc4u2/Knaresborough/20161122_112406_zpsbih4a5nb.jpeg (http://s896.photobucket.com/user/gmc4u2/media/Knaresborough/20161122_112406_zpsbih4a5nb.jpeg.html)
http://i896.photobucket.com/albums/ac166/gmc4u2/Knaresborough/20161122_113632_zpsjcmazfmi.jpg (http://s896.photobucket.com/user/gmc4u2/media/Knaresborough/20161122_113632_zpsjcmazfmi.jpg.html)
Glen, you'd have saved much angst had you just bought a Rega arm or even a Roksan Nima and had done with it, as that's what the arm-board is for (bought from the US pre-cut specially) and a wooden board quite probably suits this arm better I think. Make sure you get a proper Jelco cut 125 board from somewhere as the existing hole won't be in the right place according to Hugo (Ammonite Acoustics). One of his mounting collars will be essential and while you're at it, check the arm for bearing quality - smooth movement from side to side with no notching and same up and down, as they vary apparently. Johnnie at Audio Origami *may* be able to effect a repair should you need it, although I'd ask Hugo's advice first.
Ammonite Audio
22-11-2016, 20:28
Glen, you'd have saved much angst had you just bought a Rega arm or even a Roksan Nima and had done with it, as that's what the arm-board is for (bought from the US pre-cut specially) and a wooden board quite probably suits this arm better I think. Make sure you get a proper Jelco cut 125 board from somewhere as the existing hole won't be in the right place according to Hugo (Ammonite Acoustics). One of his mounting collars will be essential and while you're at it, check the arm for bearing quality - smooth movement from side to side with no notching and same up and down, as they vary apparently. Johnnie at Audio Origami *may* be able to effect a repair should you need it, although I'd ask Hugo's advice first.
It's a brand new arm, with one of my collars!
It's a brand new arm, with one of my collars!
And it arrived today...resplendent in its package! I'm working on the arm board....it's the cartridge causing me the greatest angst! I've got myself all confused.
Decided to go with the Hana, as I've read that the AT can err on the brighter side and I couldn't bear that! The thing now is to go for the SH or SL? :rolleyes:
SL is supposed to be better, according to forum chatter.
SL is supposed to be better, according to forum chatter.
That's what I understand too, but my amps mc input is 0.3 Mv and 100 ohm. The cartridge is 0.5 Mv and supposed to work best into 400 and greater. The SH is 2Mv and 47 kohm, my MM stage is 2.5 and 47kohm.... any thoughts?
Arkless Electronics
24-11-2016, 16:39
The 0.3 Vs 0.5mV is irrelevant and the difference between 100 and 400R certainly won't stop it working, more likely it will cause subtle differences to the presentation only... and the amp can be set to 400R (or any figure) very simply by anyone who can solder and read a circuit diagram... a 10 minute job in fact.
The 0.3 Vs 0.5mV is irrelevant and the difference between 100 and 400R certainly won't stop it working, more likely it will cause subtle differences to the presentation only... and the amp can be set to 400R (or any figure) very simply by anyone who can solder and read a circuit diagram... a 10 minute job in fact.
So the SL would be the better option then and not cause any undue problems? I'm new to all of this, hence the questions...
Thank you for the comments
That's what I understand too, but my amps mc input is 0.3 Mv and 100 ohm. The cartridge is 0.5 Mv and supposed to work best into 400 and greater. The SH is 2Mv and 47 kohm, my MM stage is 2.5 and 47kohm.... any thoughts?
Don't worry, the SH cartridge will work very well into your MM stage.
Here's a more recent shot of my TD 125
http://i896.photobucket.com/albums/ac166/gmc4u2/Knaresborough/20161122_113632_zpsjcmazfmi.jpg
By the look of things, you have the comparatively rare version made for Thorens by EMT in Germany.
Arkless Electronics
24-11-2016, 20:08
So the SL would be the better option then and not cause any undue problems? I'm new to all of this, hence the questions...
Thank you for the comments
Impossible to say. Low output MC's are generally better than high output ones. Ideally two resistors should be changed in your amp as I said.
Arkless Electronics
24-11-2016, 20:11
By the look of things, you have the comparatively rare version made for Thorens by EMT in Germany.
Thorens had a factory in the Black Forest area of Germany for years AFAIK. It is quite common to find Thorens TT's with "made in Germany" on them. If this was the EMT factory and all those German made Thorens decks were made by EMT then they made a hell of a lot of them!!
Thorens had a factory in the Black Forest area of Germany for years AFAIK. It is quite common to find Thorens TT's with "made in Germany" on them. If this was the EMT factory and all those German made Thorens decks were made by EMT then they made a hell of a lot of them!!
Then why does it say "under Swiss licence" if the factory was owned by Thorens?
Arkless Electronics
24-11-2016, 20:19
No idea but probably the majority of Thorens TT's at one time were made in Germany and I recall that they had a factory in the black forest area.
According to Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elektro-Mess-Technik, production of the Swiss Thorens turntables (the TD 125 and later models) was moved to the EMT factory at Lahr in the Black Forest in 1969, because German labour rates were lower than those in Switzerland.
There had been close co-operation between EMT and Thorens (and Studer) for sometime before, with both companies acting as distributors for one another's products.
I have seen some (very late) TD 150s bearing the label "Made under licence by EMT, Germany for Thorens, Switzerland".
(All my Thorens decks (TD 124/IIs) are made in Switzerland.)
Impossible to say. Low output MC's are generally better than high output ones. Ideally two resistors should be changed in your amp as I said.
And therein lies the problem! But with all due respect, no one is going near my amp regardless! That's why I need to get the choice correct. I thought I had it Sussed, but I can feel indecision creeping over me once again! :doh:
Lagavulin
24-11-2016, 23:17
No idea but probably the majority of Thorens TT's at one time were made in Germany and I recall that they had a factory in the black forest area.
Germany or Switzerland ..... The TD125 is still one fine turntable for the OP to enjoy for many years to come.
The Internet is a great source of information and I read this:
1966*** Effective July 1st, 1966, the Swiss Thorens-Franz AG took over the entire business concerning Thorens record players and together with EMT Wilhelm Franz of Germany, they established a new business for research, development and manufacturing in Lahr / Germany, located in the foothills of the Black Forest.
Germany or Switzerland ..... The TD125 is still one fine turntable for the OP to enjoy for many years to come.
That is, if I can ever decide on a cartridge! :lol::lol::scratch:
killie99
25-11-2016, 15:00
You could buy a phono stage with adjustable inputs that way you can buy any cart you like, that's what I did - the Luxman phono stages are good but their lack of adjustment is a bit of a weak point.
So I have a cartridge! How I love Black Friday... I was all set to get the Hana SL from hifi_dave (thanks to him for all his help, by the way), but a dalliance on my part led me to talk to a dealer who has both the Hana and Luxman. It transpired that they had a BF deal on the Soundsmith range, which I had read about previously. I'd not given them much thought as they were out of reach, price wise.... but not last Friday! So duly a Carmen cartridge was bought and delivered the next day. Great service and advice from Gary at Audio Emotion.
The great thing about this Moving Iron cart, is the lifelong ability to have it retipped by Soundsmith themselves for 20% of the carts price! That applies even if the cartridge is sold on, so adds to its saleability.
Let's hope it sounds as good as the reviews say... :eek:
It's a refurbished B&O design isn't it? Not the most dramatic of presentations, but should be nice and silky. Suitable for the high mass Jelco though? Not sure, sorry...
Ammonite Audio
29-11-2016, 10:34
It's a refurbished B&O design isn't it? Not the most dramatic of presentations, but should be nice and silky. Suitable for the high mass Jelco though? Not sure, sorry...
If that is an issue, then a few drops of damping fluid in the pot will nicely broaden the Jelco's suitability for higher compliance cartridges. There are many nice things about the Jelco, including that it comes with two different counterweights, the ability to apply damping, and the flexibility of tweaking effective mass up or down as required using different headshells.
I look forward to hearing how the Carmen sounds.
It's a refurbished B&O design isn't it? Not the most dramatic of presentations, but should be nice and silky. Suitable for the high mass Jelco though? Not sure, sorry...
No worries, I'm assured it'll work fine. The shop uses the Carmen in the Jelco. It's a medium compliance cartridge. It's a good match, I wouldn't have bought it otherwise. Cheers though.
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