The emotional factor in formats

[Kris]

I'm loath to post this thread because the last thing I want is it to end up being an LP Vs CD, or Valves Vs SS thread. That's NOT what this is about.

I doubt if anyone would argue that music played via a computer or music server isn't the most user-friendly way of doing it. Instant search, instant access to any track or album in your collection.

Say you have multiple copies of an album, one in each format that you have access to. And when played, the sound quality of each format is exactly the same (this is theoretical!) Which would give you the most enjoyment?

For me it would be record or Reel to Reel, followed by DAT, then CD, then cassette, with PC/music server last. I like to interact with my music, I like to touch my music, to hold it, I like to see my music being played. I like to read the sleeve notes, look at the pictures.

I just can't get emotional about playing music from my hard drive. Even if I have PC music album that sounds far better than it's worn out LP twin, I will still play the LP rather than the computer file. And often I don't know what I want to listen to, so I'll search through my collection. Searching audio files on a screen, well it's all just meaningless words to me. Seriously, it doesn't mean anything to me. But searching through my shelves of LPs or CDs, heck it's enjoyable. And I love rearranging or tidying my collections, I like cleaning the CD, washing the record, cleaning the tape path on the RtR or cassette deck, waiting for the valves in my phono stage to start glowing. Yes, it's a total pain getting up halfway through the record to turn it over, but secretly, I enjoy it. There is a physical bond between me and the music, and the greater that physical bond, the more enjoyment I'll get out of it. For me, enjoyment comes first, then the sound quality.

And I don't think I'm alone. Just look at the resurgence of Vinyl and even cassette amongst young people. It can't all be down to sound quality. Some of it must be down to the physical interaction between the person and the music.

[Spectral Morn]

I'm loath to post this thread because the last thing I want is it to end up being an LP Vs CD, or Valves Vs SS thread. That's NOT what this is about.

I doubt if anyone would argue that music played via a computer or music server isn't the most user-friendly way of doing it. Instant search, instant access to any track or album in your collection.

Say you have multiple copies of an album, one in each format that you have access to. And when played, the sound quality of each format is exactly the same (this is theoretical!) Which would give you the most enjoyment?

For me it would be record or Reel to Reel, followed by DAT, then CD, then cassette, with PC/music server last. I like to interact with my music, I like to touch my music, to hold it, I like to see my music being played. I like to read the sleeve notes, look at the pictures.

I just can't get emotional about playing music from my hard drive. Even if I have PC music album that sounds far better than it's worn out LP twin, I will still play the LP rather than the computer file. And often I don't know what I want to listen to, so I'll search through my collection. Searching audio files on a screen, well it's all just meaningless words to me. Seriously, it doesn't mean anything to me. But searching through my shelves of LPs or CDs, heck it's enjoyable. And I love rearranging or tidying my collections, I like cleaning the CD, washing the record, cleaning the tape path on the RtR or cassette deck, waiting for the valves in my phono stage to start glowing. Yes, it's a total pain getting up halfway through the record to turn it over, but secretly, I enjoy it. There is a physical bond between me and the music, and the greater that physical bond, the more enjoyment I'll get out of it. For me, enjoyment comes first, then the sound quality.

And I don't think I'm alone. Just look at the resurgence of Vinyl and even cassette amongst young people. It can't all be down to sound quality. Some of it must be down to the physical interaction between the person and the music.

I don't think I can add anything to that post. Excellent I agree 100% with you Kris.

The digital/PC future for music/books etc leaves me dreading that future...lacking in soul, cold and with no humanity. A Borg, Cyberman future...no thanks.


Regards D S D L

[Primalsea]

Neil,

How on earth do you get your records out? You have guns for arms and an old plunger for an eye!

[Ali Tait]

Naah that's the easy bit.I wanna know how he uses a keyboard! :lolsign:

[Spectral Morn]

I have very flexible tentacles...think of the external as a tank, and your not far wrong.... Now threading a Reel to Reel tape thats fun:eek::lol::lol::lol::lol:


Regards D S D L

[Marco]

I just can't get emotional about playing music from my hard drive. Even if I have PC music album that sounds far better than it's worn out LP twin, I will still play the LP rather than the computer file. And often I don't know what I want to listen to, so I'll search through my collection. Searching audio files on a screen, well it's all just meaningless words to me. Seriously, it doesn't mean anything to me. But searching through my shelves of LPs or CDs, heck it's enjoyable. And I love rearranging or tidying my collections, I like cleaning the CD, washing the record, cleaning the tape path on the RtR or cassette deck, waiting for the valves in my phono stage to start glowing. Yes, it's a total pain getting up halfway through the record to turn it over, but secretly, I enjoy it. There is a physical bond between me and the music, and the greater that physical bond, the more enjoyment I'll get out of it. For me, enjoyment comes first, then the sound quality.


Welcome to the club, Kris - the club of people who love music as only human beings can! ;)

Great post. I concur 100%. The only bit I would add in relation to this:


For me, enjoyment comes first, then the sound quality.


...Is that let's not kid ourselves that the hi-fi side of things (sound quality) isn't equally as important. I love music, but I also love it to sound good too, which is why we contribute to forums such as this and own 'specialist' hi-fi systems.

Let's be honest, there would be little enjoyment from playing records if the music coming out of your speakers didn't sound good :)

Marco.

[Joe]

I'm unemotional about formats. Many of my LPs are knackered, so listening to them can be a somewhat painful experience. I haven't got around to 'computerising' my music yet, but if/when I do, I could see that becoming my format of choice, me being a lazy good-for-nothing and all.

[The Vinyl Adventure]

i have said all this before, so i wont harp on just for kris's benefit but i am exactlythe oposite! for me it is about the music and the music sounding good... im not fussed about the tangible factor!
that said, i do like a book and i dont find computer books at all apealing! i know that sounds contradictory but the thing with books for me it that they need no batterys or power to work! id rather fill the space my cds would take up with more books! i guess we are all different eh

[Spectral Morn]

. For me, enjoyment comes first, then the sound quality.




I want and have both....they are of equal importance to me.


Regards D S D L

[Themis]

Young people listen to Deezer et al. Let's face it. ;)

[Alex_UK]

let's not kid ourselves that the hi-fi side of things (sound quality) isn't equally as important. I love music, but I also love it to sound good too, which is why we contribute to forums such as this and own 'specialist' hi-fi systems.

To a point, I'd have to disagree - I personally would rather listen to my favourite music on a mediocre system than music not to my taste on a great system - far too black & white I know, but my point is if I had to compromise, it would be in the replay equipment, not the source material. In fact, what am I saying - I DO compromise - I spend hundreds of pounds a month on music, and only hundreds of pounds a year on hifi - maybe I just haven't heard a system that has yet to make me disobey the laws of diminishing returns (that's not supposed to be a direct or implied criticism of anyone, by the way - just my own take on things, given all the other addictions that vie for my disposable every month!)

[Marco]

Hi Alex,


To a point, I'd have to disagree - I personally would rather listen to my favourite music on a mediocre system than music not to my taste on a great system...


Jeez, yes, absolutely! But then, why would you ever listen to music not to your taste? :scratch:

I only buy or listen to music I like, but it also has to sound fantastic!! That's why I own a great system. If the music I like didn't sound fantastic then I doubt I'd play it and enjoy it as much. That about sums it up for me, otherwise I wouldn't be into hi-fi as well as music, or posting on specialist audio forums such as this. I'd just be your average 'Joe Bloggs'........ :)

Marco.

[Kris]

To a point, I'd have to disagree - I personally would rather listen to my favourite music on a mediocre system than music not to my taste on a great system - far too black & white I know, but my point is if I had to compromise, it would be in the replay equipment, not the source material.

Same here. Listening to the Osmosis link earlier on, bad transcription and only 128KBs mp3, but wow, no matter how crap it sounded, it also sounded fab. I was totally blown away. For me the enjoyment takes precedence over sound quality. But I'll admit, sound quality is a very welcome bonus and will add to the enjoyment.

[anthonyTD]

i agree,
i still love listening to my gritty old 45's on my 1964 jukebox, its not acurate, but its great because it plays music i like.
A...

[Rare Bird]

Correct Kris/Anthony TD..a large chunk of the music i listern to is not that fantastically recorded, but all that is irrelevant when i get turned on..Most this hi-fi malarky is just purely obsession with some.

[Marco]

Each to his or her own, I guess :)

I think, like Alex says, it depends on what kind of system you're used to, and thus what one's benchmark is. When I listen to music on my system, it's (almost literally) like having a real band or musicians present in the room.

I suspect that if my system didn't portray music as effectively, I'd be less inclined to value the sound it makes.

I'm rather like Neil in that respect - both are very important to me, otherwise I'd simply buy a 'bog standard' separates system from Richer Sounds (or the like) and be done with it.

Marco.

[Marco]

Correct Kris/Anthony TD..a large chunk of the music i listern to is not that fantastically recorded, but all that is irrelevant when i get turned on..Most this hi-fi malarky is just purely obsession with some.

It's not quite as simple as that, though, Andre.

On a truly superb system, badly recorded music is still enjoyable to listen to - in fact, more so. The musical message is conveyed very effectively, without undue attention drawn to the poor recording quality. That's precisely what my system does. Of course, bad recordings are showcased in all their 'glory', but without being 'trashed'. It's quite a hard balance to achieve, though.

Trust me, I own plenty of duff recordings that I play all the time (80s pap, you'd hate it!) :eyebrows:

Let me put it this way: I'd rather play crap recordings of music I love on a great system than listen to the same music on a crap system! ;)

I want the full package: great music, poor recording quality or not, played on a superb system...

Marco.

[Alex_UK]

Yep, I'm sure on the 8th March 2010 I'll be re-mortgaging my house!

[Rare Bird]

Yep, I'm sure on the 8th March 2010 I'll be re-mortgaging my house!

More important things in life than hi-fi alex

;)

[Marco]

Damn right - that's why I'm taking my wife here for our wedding anniversary (Dec 22nd) instead of buying Duncan's Copper DAC:

http://www.thestaratharome.co.uk/star_welcome.htm

http://www.thestaratharome.co.uk/star_accomm.htm

The cost will roughly be the same by the time I've paid for the room, meal, Champers, flowers, and all sorts of other surprises, but you've gotta keep yer woman happy, too! ;)

18 years of marital bliss for us :)

Marco.

[Rare Bird]

Damn right - that's why I'm taking my wife here for our wedding anniversary (Dec 22nd) instead of buying Duncan's Copper DAC:

http://www.thestaratharome.co.uk/star_welcome.htm

The cost will roughly be the same by the time I pay for Champers, flowers, and all sorts of other surprises, but you've gotta keep yer woman happy ;)

18 years of marital bliss, for us :)

Marco.

Proper snap frum gud owd yarkshire eh..

[Rare Bird]

What i've started doing Marco, going out enjoying & buying more music instead of pumping it into h-fi that your never ever happy with long term! lifes too short man..Enjoy yourself anyway & congrats..I only lasted 14 years with the first, this wife will be for keeps tho

[The Vinyl Adventure]

I think the important thing that threads like this portray is that we all enjoy our hobby in different ways, but pretty much to the same end!
I agree with marco, I'd rather listen to badly recorded music I like on a good system and have the ability to listen to the well recorded music in as high a quality way as we can justify buying! That's why we are all on this forum!
I don't mind listening to songs I pike on crap systems as long as I can come back to my hifi when I want to enjoy all the advantages it brings

Andre - there are indeed more important things in life than hifi but One ofthe most important things is happiness, and if hifi brings that happiness then screw the money and roll on the smiles I say!

[Marco]

Proper snap frum gud owd yarkshire eh..


Yeah baby! :cool:

We spied that place on the Hairy Bikers food programme. It looks fab, so hopefully it will be.

Marco.

[Spectral Morn]

Damn right - that's why I'm taking my wife here for our wedding anniversary (Dec 22nd) instead of buying Duncan's Copper DAC:

http://www.thestaratharome.co.uk/star_welcome.htm

http://www.thestaratharome.co.uk/star_accomm.htm

The cost will roughly be the same by the time I've paid for the room, meal, Champers, flowers, and all sorts of other surprises, but you've gotta keep yer woman happy, too! ;)

18 years of marital bliss for us :)

Marco.

Congratulations Marco and Dell..it will be 16 years for me and my wife next March. I am a truly blessed man with her.


Regards D S D L

[Kris]

I'd rather play crap recordings of music I love on a great system than listen to the same music on a crap system! ;)

I do partly agree. But I often listen to music through earphones whilst going to sleep. El cheapo (£20-£30) earphones as I go though a lot of them and I can't justify buying expensive ones just to trash in bed whilst I'm asleep.

I suppose some people are prepared to (or have to) compromise for one reason or another, whilst others won't. And some people can get enjoyment out of listening to a £2 tranny radio (no matter how good their system at home) whilst others can't.


why would you ever listen to music not to your taste? :scratch:

Same reason why some of us have to sit through Coronation Street? :(

[Marco]

What i've started doing Marco, going out enjoying & buying more music instead of pumping it into h-fi that your never ever happy with long term! lifes too short man..


Yep, nothing wrong with that. It depends what you mean by "long term", though.

Generally, I keep most of my gear for at least 5 years before changing it, sometimes longer (the Spendors stayed for 8). I'm at the stage now where most of what I've got will be staying with me for the foreseeable future, as it's now very hard to find anything better without spending 'stupid' money.

I bet you that in 15 years time (if I'm still alive) I'll still be using my Copper amp and the Tannoys... Who knows, I may even have got into computer audio by then! :lol:


Enjoy yourself anyway & congrats..I only lasted 14 years with the first, this wife will be for keeps tho

Cheers, dude. Same here. Del's one in a million - I'm defo a lucky b*stard! :)

Marco.

[Alex_UK]

In answer to you all - life, is about compromise - screw that up, and you're f*cked... (witness the chap from the Naim forum...)

[Rare Bird]

I think the important thing that threads like this portray is that we all enjoy our hobby in different ways, but pretty much to the same end!
I agree with marco, I'd rather listen to badly recorded music I like on a good system and have the ability to listen to the well recorded music in as high a quality way as we can justify buying! That's why we are all on this forum!
I don't mind listening to songs I pike on crap systems as long as I can come back to my hifi when I want to enjoy all the advantages it brings

Andre - there are indeed more important things in life than hifi but One ofthe most important things is happiness, and if hifi brings that happiness then screw the money and roll on the smiles I say!

We have to remember that people use systems in different enviroments. Some guys may have massive dedicated listerning room that house speakers the size of sky scrapers & power amps big enough to power a space shuttle, other live in tiny houses with sensitive neighbours that have small scale system played at very low levels.

Clearly the bigger house with no limited volume is gonna give a bigger more realistic sound stage, where as the latter (which i fall into) will just sound very pleasant..Over the years i have come acustom to head phone listerning as my primary experience so put everything into that way of listerning, i actually prefer this to loudspeaker listerning! hence i have just a run off the mill floorstander that sounds just nice & visually appealing, wont win awards but why bother when it get maybe two listerns a year.

At the end of the day people listern in different ways, looking for different qualities.



Yeah baby! :cool:

We spied that place on the Hairy Bikers food programme. It looks fab, so hopefully it will be.



Aye i love those two guys, they don't give a shit but the grub always turns out great..Can't beat long haired dudes ;)

[Marco]

Congratulations Marco and Dell..it will be 16 years for me and my wife next March. I am a truly blessed man with her.


Cheers, matey! You know what it's like when you land a good 'un :)

Marco.

[The Vinyl Adventure]

Kris - http://www.robertsradio.co.uk/Products/Accessories/Pillow_Talk/index.htm :)

[Spectral Morn]

Cheers, matey! You know what it's like when you land a good 'un :)

Marco.

Indeed Yes...:):):):):):cool:


Regards D S D L

[Rare Bird]

You know when you have a nightmare of one aswell, you loose everything you worked for..Thank god for good uns.

[Kris]

Kris - http://www.robertsradio.co.uk/Products/Accessories/Pillow_Talk/index.htm :)

Umm . . . thanks but that looks like too much of a compromise to me. . . .

[The Vinyl Adventure]

Yeah... It's a big pile of poo! My little smiley face should have perhaps been a little winky smiley face :)
I used to listen to music to sleep and frequently ended up with earphones made of more electrical tape than actual earphone!

[Alex_UK]

I used to listen to music to sleep and frequently ended up with earphones made of more electrical tape than actual earphone!

Same here, except I got married and ended up with thick ears! ;)

[The Vinyl Adventure]

There is just no point in me listening to music in bed anymore, I fall asleep most nights in about 5 mins after hitting the pillow! I wouldn't want to risk my Sony earbuds either .. At £46 they are 3 times what I normally spend!!