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REM
07-12-2009, 20:54
Another Journey into Valves or How I Learned to Stop Hitting My Head Against the Wall and Hit the Bottle Instead......

Warning, long post...

....first of all a little background. My hi-fi has remained basically unchanged for the last 10/12 years and until earlier this year was pretty much standard 'flat earth' Linn/Naim based stuff. The LP12 was heading into middle age and showing signs of requiring major cosmetic surgery to regain its youthful vitality, much like its' owner. I'm sure I'm not alone in regarding the recent Linn 'upgrades' as somewhat pricey and even the alternatives (Sole etc) when added to new tone arm/power supply and whatever else still added up to a fairly expensive proposition and so, if a major investment had to made, why not go for a complete change? Having followed the story over the last few years of the resurgence of the D/D turntable it was time to check things out and after much deliberation (and considerable trepidation) a Technics 1210/TimeStep psu/SME 309 found itself replacing the Linn. I wont go over the details more than enough has already been written on the subject, suffice it to say I have no regrets what so ever.

The next couple of months were spent happily re-discovering my record collection, as you do, and a nearly (less than 30 hours) new Zu 103 cart found its way into the SME. That is some cartridge let me tell you and all was well, Chez REM, until one day in summer, the 1st of July, to be precise. The place, The Audio Counsel, the time 2pm, the event, Naims' Summer Roadshow which I'd attended out of curiosity to see what their new DAC was all about.

The first presentation was under way so a handful of us were herded upstairs into a small demo room, which over the next half hour or so would become known to history as the Black Hole of Cheadle on what later turned out to be the hottest day of the year, there to be greeted by a pair of monolithic gloss black floor standing speakers connected to Naims' new all-in-one Uniti. Given the heat and total lack of ventilation this did not bode well. On went the first track, Patricia Barber 'Let it Rain' (very funny Dave) and.... BLOODY 'ELL, this can't be right, how can this combo sound this good? What are these speakers? Enter the Zu Essence, a proper demo was booked on the spot and a week later a pair duly ordered.

After a 10 week wait (should normally be six) the Essences were installed and singing sweetly following a 3/4 week break-in period. No doubt that if there's one bit of kit you've read more about than Technics t/t's recently then it will be Zu speakers so all I'll say here is that they really are very special indeed. The Naims (102/Hi-Cap/180) have never had a load so easy and rewarded by providing the best sounds I've ever had but something was nagging away telling me that there was more to be had from the Zus. So, after traipsing round the Manchester hi fi show and auditioning various amps to no avail, a phone call to Simon@Musicology the Zu importer, had me persuaded to try out some amps from Atma-Sphere. Now I'm the last person to go for a valve amp (and an OTL one at that) but talk from Simon about synergy this, more prat than you can shake a stick at that and forget all your preconceptions etc., etc., got to me and a home loan of the entry (!) level MP-3 pre and S-30 power amps was arranged.

Following what seemed like another epic wait, a few weeks actually, the amps arrived safely despite the couriers' best attempt to transform them from precision electronic components into recycling material. The pre has XLR inputs on both phono and line stages although can take RCA line level in through its two tape loops, both pre and power amps are fully balanced. Unfortunately no xlr/phono adapters were included but a phone call to Simon got that sorted and whilst waiting gave me the chance to try the S-30 with the 102, through the S-30's unbalanced inputs, using a din-phono Mogami i/c cable. This was the pairing I was initially more interested in as it approximated a similar investment in taking a step up the Naim ladder to either a 282 or 250.

Initial impressions were very favourable, the S-30 needing only a little extra gain on the volume (from about 11 to 1 o'clock) for more than adequate loudness, the sound was instantly more refined, easier to listen to but also fuller and even more detailed. The biggest surprise was however, the bass. Although leaner it was significantly deeper and much more defined, bass instruments having much more of their own signature. This extra bass clarity allowed the music even more ebb and flow, instruments stopping and starting with more naturalness and in their own space, a valve amp with more PRaT than a Naim, well, who could have thought it! Gradually it dawned that what in fact was going on was the removal of grain and hash which had previously been masking so many details, obscuring the music. The S-30 is a class act.

A couple of days later the xlr/phono adapters arrive and the MP-3 can take its place driving the S-30. Right from switch on it's obvious that something very special is happening and over the first couple of LP sides the amps are warming up but even so, this is clearly music on an altogether different level. After 45 minutes or so the sound has settled and filled out, taking maybe an extra couple of hours or so to gradually reach its full potential. This is not valve amp sound, this is not warm, this is not soft, this is not lush, this is not rose tinted or any of those clichés that are banded about when people refer to thermionic amplification. Equally, to my immense relief, it is not typical Amplification Americana either, certainly it does sound staging (immensely) when called upon to do so but unlike so many of its colonial cousins it doesn't do it at the expense of all else. Instruments take on a life of their own, vocals suddenly sound more human, the sound seems more ‘organic’, natural, dare I say it, this is the ‘sound of music’.

Listening to Dire Straights 1st (and best, surely) LP is enlightening. Hands up everybody who thinks that this otherwise excellent recording is marred slightly by the rather sibilant nature of the vocals. Thought so, well guess what, you’re all wrong! I’ve had this LP for 30 years now and heard it on all manner of kit over the years and the sibilance has always been present to one degree or another. As soon as I played it through the MP-3/S-30 it was clear what was happening, Mr. Knopfler obviously learned his style at the Kirk Douglas School of Dramatic Art, that is to say ‘ya wanna let ‘em know ya mean business, then grit ya teeth good ’n tight ‘an shing thro ‘em, baby’. This is what I mean when saying that vocals sound more human, you are more aware of the nuances that go to make something sound more like a real performance, not just a cardboard cut out reproduction.

This low level detail is not just confined to vocals of course, in Take Five as the drum solo develops it is as though you can hear Brubeck leaning into his keyboard as he plays his metronomic figure underneath Morello’s patterns and then seems to lean out as the solo ends and Desmond’s sax takes over, uncanny, but very real. Taking of percussion, what the Atma-Spheres do with drums is astounding, kick drums really move tempos on as they should, it’s easy to become almost lulled into thinking that some tracks are maybe a little bass light and then THWUMP, in comes the kick drum and you jump, thrilling stuff. It’s not just drums, the almost palpable sense of hammers hitting strings on piano is remarkable and guitars jump into life. String bass has to be heard to be believed, Danny Thompson’s soloing on Haitian Fight Song from the Pentangle, Sweet Child album is sublime.

When it comes to sound staging the Atma-Spheres just tell you what is on the recording. A small group recording like The Ginger Baker Trio’s ‘Going Back Home’ with Charlie Haden and Bill Frisell seems to take you into the studio with them, similarly with jazz ensemble stuff such as Oliver Nelson’s ‘Blues an the Abstract Truth’ LP it’s as though you can see each soloist take to the centre, do his thing and then go back to the band. Given a ‘bigger’ recording again the MP-3/S-30 just get on with it, DSOTM has never sounded so well, ’er like amazing, man.
The demo amps have been with me for a fortnight now so really I suppose these observations are just first impressions, but first impressions are very important and I’m very impressed to say the least.

Downsides, well aesthetically they are from the form follows function school, personally I think the ’50s cold war Si-Fi B movie styling is great, you may not and there is no cover for the valves so not great if you have pets or kids about, the build quality though is also from days gone by, that is days when this sort of thing was meant to last, Atma-Sphere reckon on 20 years between services I’m told and tube life is also said to be good and long, which is just as well as there are a lot of them. These amps are not plug and play so would not suit everyone. Being an OTL design they need speakers above 8ohm and not being the most powerful at 30 wpc then you need to use efficient speakers to get room filling spl’s so that rules them out for driving ’briks and the like but suitably partnered (vintage Tannoys anyone?) the Atma-Spheres are truly magical.

Now all I have to do is wait (again) for 'mine' to be built and shipped from the US of A, got used to waiting this year:).

Alex_UK
07-12-2009, 21:48
Great, Ralph - sounds like a lot of fun. (Please don't be insulted - but sticking an extra line of space at the end of each paragraph will make your post much easier to read - I struggled a bit, if I'm honest, though I was determined to read your story. Please don't be offended, just an observation.)

Spectral Morn
07-12-2009, 22:30
Simons a nice guy.

I have tried Atma-Sphere and I thought it was very good, but ran a wee bit to hot for the size of room and the two power amps were a wee bit to big...so I did not go down that road. However they are very good imho/e.

Have fun Ralph.


Regards D S D L

Marco
07-12-2009, 22:38
Another Journey into Valves or How I Learned to Stop Hitting My Head Against the Wall and Hit the Bottle Instead......

Warning, long post...

....first of all a little background. My hi-fi has remained basically unchanged for the last 10/12 years and until earlier this year was pretty much standard 'flat earth' Linn/Naim based stuff. The LP12 was heading into middle age and showing signs of requiring major cosmetic surgery to regain its youthful vitality, much like its' owner. I'm sure I'm not alone in regarding the recent Linn 'upgrades' as somewhat pricey and even the alternatives (Sole etc) when added to new tone arm/power supply and whatever else still added up to a fairly expensive proposition and so, if a major investment had to made, why not go for a complete change? Having followed the story over the last few years of the resurgence of the D/D turntable it was time to check things out and after much deliberation (and considerable trepidation) a Technics 1210/TimeStep psu/SME 309 found itself replacing the Linn. I wont go over the details more than enough has already been written on the subject, suffice it to say I have no regrets what so ever.
The next couple of months were spent happily re-discovering my record collection, as you do, and a nearly (less than 30 hours) new Zu 103 cart found its way into the SME. That is some cartridge let me tell you and all was well, Chez Groover, until one day in summer, the 1st of July, to be precise. The place, The Audio Counsel, the time 2pm, the event, Naims' Summer Roadshow which I'd attended out of curiosity to see what their new DAC was all about. The first presentation was under way so a handful of us were herded upstairs into a small demo room, which over the next half hour or so would become known to history as the Black Hole of Cheadle on what later turned out to be the hottest day of the year, there to be greeted by a pair of monolithic gloss black floor standing speakers connected to Naims' new all-in-one Uniti. Given the heat and total lack of ventilation this did not bode well. On went the first track, Patricia Barber 'Let it Rain' (very funny Dave) and.... BLOODY 'ELL, this can't be right, how can this combo sound this good? What are these speakers? Enter the Zu Essence, a proper demo was booked on the spot and a week later a pair duly ordered.
After a 10 week wait (should normally be six) the Essences were installed and singing sweetly following a 3/4 week break-in period. No doubt that if there's one bit of kit you've read more about than Technics t/t's recently then it will be Zu speakers so all I'll say here is that they really are very special indeed. The Naims (102/Hi-Cap/180) have never had a load so easy and rewarded by providing the best sounds I've ever had but something was nagging away telling me that there was more to be had from the Zus. So, after traipsing round the Manchester hi fi show and auditioning various amps to no avail, a phone call to Simon@Musicology the Zu importer, had me persuaded to try out some amps from Atma-Sphere. Now I'm the last person to go for a valve amp (and an OTL one at that) but talk from Simon about synergy this, more prat than you can shake a stick at that and forget all your preconceptions etc., etc., got to me and a home loan of the entry (!) level MP-3 pre and S-30 power amps was arranged.
Following what seemed like another epic wait, a few weeks actually, the amps arrived safely despite the couriers' best attempt to transform them from precision electronic components into recycling material. The pre has XLR inputs on both phono and line stages although can take RCA line level in through its two tape loops, both pre and power amps are fully balanced. Unfortunately no xlr/phono adapters were included but a phone call to Simon got that sorted and whilst waiting gave me the chance to try the S-30 with the 102, through the S-30's unbalanced inputs, using a din-phono Mogami i/c cable. This was the pairing I was initially more interested in as it approximated a similar investment in taking a step up the Naim ladder to either a 282 or 250. Initial impressions were very favourable, the S-30 needing only a little extra gain on the volume (from about 11 to 1 o'clock) for more than adequate loudness, the sound was instantly more refined, easier to listen to but also fuller and even more detailed. The biggest surprise was however, the bass. Although leaner it was significantly deeper and much more defined, bass instruments having much more of their own signature. This extra bass clarity allowed the music even more ebb and flow, instruments stopping and starting with more naturalness and in their own space, a valve amp with more PRaT than a Naim, well, who could have thought it! Gradually it dawned that what in fact was going on was the removal of grain and hash which had previously been masking so many details, obscuring the music. The S-30 is a class act.
A couple of days later the xlr/phono adapters arrive and the MP-3 can take its place driving the S-30. Right from switch on it's obvious that something very special is happening and over the first couple of LP sides the amps are warming up but even so, this is clearly music on an altogether different level. After 45 minutes or so the sound has settled and filled out, taking maybe an extra couple of hours or so to gradually reach its full potential. This is not valve amp sound, this is not warm, this is not soft, this is not lush, this is not rose tinted or any of those clichés that are banded about when people refer to thermionic amplification. Equally, to my immense relief, it is not typical Amplification Americana either, certainly it does sound staging (immensely) when called upon to do so but unlike so many of its colonial cousins it doesn't do it at the expense of all else. Instruments take on a life of their own, vocals suddenly sound more human, the sound seems more ‘organic’, natural, dare I say it, this is the ‘sound of music’.
Listening to Dire Straights 1st (and best, surely) LP is enlightening. Hands up everybody who thinks that this otherwise excellent recording is marred slightly by the rather sibilant nature of the vocals. Thought so, well guess what, you’re all wrong! I’ve had this LP for 30 years now and heard it on all manner of kit over the years and the sibilance has always been present to one degree or another. As soon as I played it through the MP-3/S-30 it was clear what was happening, Mr. Knopfler obviously learned his style at the Kirk Douglas School of Dramatic Art, that is to say ‘ya wanna let ‘em know ya mean business, then grit ya teeth good ’n tight ‘an shing thro ‘em, baby’. This is what I mean when saying that vocals sound more human, you are more aware of the nuances that go to make something sound more like a real performance, not just a cardboard cut out reproduction.
This low level detail is not just confined to vocals of course, in Take Five as the drum solo develops it is as though you can hear Brubeck leaning into his keyboard as he plays his metronomic figure underneath Morello’s patterns and then seems to lean out as the solo ends and Desmond’s sax takes over, uncanny, but very real. Taking of percussion, what the Atma-Spheres do with drums is astounding, kick drums really move tempos on as they should, it’s easy to become almost lulled into thinking that some tracks are maybe a little bass light and then THWUMP, in comes the kick drum and you jump, thrilling stuff. It’s not just drums, the almost palpable sense of hammers hitting strings on piano is remarkable and guitars jump into life. String bass has to be heard to be believed, Danny Thompson’s soloing on Haitian Fight Song from the Pentangle, Sweet Child album is sublime.
When it comes to sound staging the Atma-Spheres just tell you what is on the recording. A small group recording like The Ginger Baker Trio’s ‘Going Back Home’ with Charlie Haden and Bill Frisell seems to take you into the studio with them, similarly with jazz ensemble stuff such as Oliver Nelson’s ‘Blues an the Abstract Truth’ LP it’s as though you can see each soloist take to the centre, do his thing and then go back to the band. Given a ‘bigger’ recording again the MP-3/S-30 just get on with it, DSOTM has never sounded so well, ’er like amazing, man.
The demo amps have been with me for a fortnight now so really I suppose these observations are just first impressions, but first impressions are very important and I’m very impressed to say the least. Downsides, well aesthetically they are from the form follows function school, personally I think the ’50s cold war Si-Fi B movie styling is great, you may not and there is no cover for the valves so not great if you have pets or kids about, the build quality though is also from days gone by, that is days when this sort of thing was meant to last, Atma-Sphere reckon on 20 years between services I’m told and tube life is also said to be good and long, which is just as well as there are a lot of them. These amps are not plug and play so would not suit everyone. Being an OTL design they need speakers above 8ohm and not being the most powerful at 30 wpc then you need to use efficient speakers to get room filling spl’s so that rules them out for driving ’briks and the like but suitably partnered (vintage Tannoys anyone?) the Atma-Spheres are truly magical.
Now all I have to do is wait (again) for 'mine' to be built and shipped from the US of A, got used to waiting this year:).

Any chance of some paragraphs, you daft bugger, and then I may be tempted to read it! ;)

Marco.

The Vinyl Adventure
07-12-2009, 22:46
this naim to valve transition seems vaguly familiar for some reason

Rare Bird
07-12-2009, 22:48
Any chance of some paragraphs, you daft bugger, and then I may be tempted to read it! ;)

Marco.

:lolsign: My thoughts precisely

Marco
07-12-2009, 22:55
this naim to valve transition seems vaguly familiar for some reason


Indeed - and hopefully it'll become even more 'familiar' tomorrow :eyebrows:

Seriously though, solid-state devotees (Naim and otherwise) would flock in their droves to valves if they'd heard what you have...

If tomorrow works out ok, your music collection and you will be embarking on a journey previously beyond your comprehension, trust me! ;)

Marco.

Marco
07-12-2009, 22:57
:lolsign: My thoughts precisely

Let's help him out. Time for an edit..... :eyebrows:

Marco.

Alex_UK
07-12-2009, 23:00
Any chance of some paragraphs, you daft bugger, and then I may be tempted to read it! ;)

Marco.

Which was what I was trying to say, in a nice way! :doh:
;)

Alex_UK
07-12-2009, 23:01
As if by magic, the shopkeeper appeared! ;)

Marco
07-12-2009, 23:01
Which was what I was trying to say, in a nice way! :doh:
;)

I don't believe in fannying about!! :lol:

Marco.

Themis
07-12-2009, 23:04
There are too many paragraphs, now... :sofa:

Alex_UK
07-12-2009, 23:05
like I said in post #2 - "an extra line of space at the end of each paragraph will make your post much easier to read" :doh: ;)

Marco
07-12-2009, 23:08
There are too many paragraphs, now... :sofa:

Not for me - short, sharp bursts of text are best, with emphasis in just the right places...

That's how I write! ;)

Marco.

Alex_UK
07-12-2009, 23:10
'tis definitely better, at least - now, back to the sentiment, not giving Ralph an English lesson!

Themis
07-12-2009, 23:11
It was a joke...:o

Btw, I find it an enjoyable text. I'm always fascinated about OTL designs and the way they change people's listening approach. :)

Alex_UK
07-12-2009, 23:13
sorry Dimitri - should've added a ";)" - we're all just having fun, I hope! (;))

Rare Bird
07-12-2009, 23:14
Let's help him out. Time for an edit..... :eyebrows:

Marco.

Notice Linn/Naim mentioned think i'll pass ;)

The Vinyl Adventure
07-12-2009, 23:15
Indeed - and hopefully it'll become even more 'familiar' tomorrow :eyebrows:

Seriously though, solid-state devotees (Naim and otherwise) would flock in their droves to valves if they'd heard what you have...

If tomorrow works out ok, your music collection and you will be embarking on a journey previously beyond your comprehension, trust me! ;)

Marco.


im not sure if "if" comes into it...

REM
08-12-2009, 00:40
Kin 'ell, you want paragraphs, they were there all along but the bleedin' copy 'n pastin' bollxed 'em up... jeez talk about short attention span generation, I blame them feckin' iPod thingies....

(Note the spacing...), yes Neil, two of them power amps would get a bit warm but I thought Daleks didn't sweat....

Now that the (strategic) mention of Linn/Naim has seen off Andre, believe me he 'aint never heard DSOTM like it's supposed to be....:ner:

Note for Marco, I'm informed that the boss guy at Atma-Sphere employs session musicians who are 'between' gigs to build the amps, wait for this, in the production facility in the basement of his house! Can't you just picture the scene, mad scientist hi-fi maven lures starving, unsuspecting musicians to his lair to do his bidding...."Yes my pretty ones, down here and solder for your supper and if your soldering pleases me, then and only then, can you have pudding..."


Hamish, good luck with your new amps, at least your waiting is done....


Cheers, for now (there's loads more to come):band:

Alex_UK
08-12-2009, 00:50
Note for Marco, I'm informed that the boss guy at Atma-Sphere employs session musicians who are 'between' gigs to build the amps, wait for this, in the production facility in the basement of his house! Can't you just picture the scene, mad scientist hi-fi maven lures starving, unsuspecting musicians to his lair to do his bidding...."Yes my pretty ones, down here and solder for your supper and if your soldering pleases me, then and only then, can you have pudding..."

ooohhh - just think what concoctions could be born from the womb that is placed between those two Lockwoods???! :eyebrows::eek::stalks:

The Vinyl Adventure
08-12-2009, 01:03
Cheers ralph! The wait hasn't been so long, but these things make the final receiving of such things so much more satisfying! I am very much looking forward tomorow!

Steve Toy
08-12-2009, 16:10
Well.....

Hamish?

Can we prise you away from your newly-discovered music collection for just a short while?

The Vinyl Adventure
08-12-2009, 16:16
No... ;)
... Yeah, in a bit and il take a few piccys and make a thread etc
for now, it's good, really rather good!

The Vinyl Adventure
08-12-2009, 16:18
Oh and it seems I don't need a radiator in the lounge any more!

Alex_UK
08-12-2009, 16:36
Oh and it seems I don't need a radiator in the lounge any more!

I'm assuming this is tongue in cheek, but how hot do valve amps run? (Having never even seen one, let alone heard one running).

Steve Toy
08-12-2009, 16:37
You don't touch the valves...

John
08-12-2009, 16:43
Its great when you get that synergy going
I had a similar experience when I moved to valves

Alex_UK
08-12-2009, 16:44
Pretty much like a light bulb then, I guess. Don't think it would be very practical for me (with my Avatar around) in a main system...

Marco
08-12-2009, 16:53
Not necessarily, Alex. Most valve amps come with protective cages, covering the valves, which can be secured closed if necessary :)

Marco.

Alex_UK
08-12-2009, 17:09
Not necessarily, Alex. Most valve amps come with protective cages, covering the valves, which can be secured closed if necessary :)

Marco.

Indeed, and if not I can always buy her a straight jacket! :stalks:

Marco
08-12-2009, 17:13
Great idea... I wish I'd thought of that!! ;)

It wouldn't matter even if I had kids, my amp's about five and a half feet off the ground! Answer: buy 17 levels of Mana :lol:

Marco.

Stratmangler
08-12-2009, 17:20
17 levels of Mana

That's also known as a climbing frame !!;)

Chris:)

Marco
08-12-2009, 17:24
HAHAHAHAHAHAAHA.... No chance. There's nowt to grab onto! Besides, how can she climb if she's in a straightjacket? :eyebrows:

Marco.

REM
08-12-2009, 17:39
Hi Alex

The Atma-Spheres don't, come with covers for the valves that is, I think the A-S philosophy is something like "Why would you want children around your hi-fi anyway, they don't do anything for the sound so why would you consider kids/pets anywhere near the hi-fi:confused:."

They take a no compromise approach to hi-fi, bit like Linn/Naim used to back in the day, hard to believe now but it was Naim's hard line on things like tone controls that led to other companies following their lead and Linn's source first, all very much anti-establishment (of the time) thinking but ultimately paving the way for better domestic hi-fi.

So, no not all hi-fi gear comes in family friendly, easily accommodated, plug and play configurations but all hi-fi involves compromises of one kind or another and it's up to each of us to decide which set of compromises best suits our expectations/circumstances. For those with a houseful of inquisitive kids and a menagerie of boisterous pets a digital system based on some of Ashley James' little powered speakers would make more sense than a vinyl/valve job belting out a kw or so of class A loveliness, it's a hard life but there you go. I know which set of compromises I'd go for:eyebrows:.

Ali Tait
08-12-2009, 19:08
I'm assuming this is tongue in cheek, but how hot do valve amps run? (Having never even seen one, let alone heard one running).

I've used oven gloves to change the 813's just after switching off,and they were hot enough to singe the gloves!

anthonyTD
08-12-2009, 19:09
I've used oven gloves to change the 813's just after switching off,and they were hot enough to singe the gloves!
its a valve thing!!!
:lolsign:

The Vinyl Adventure
08-12-2009, 19:19
if what i have seen today is anything to go by... i recon valve touching is well off the cards!

Ali Tait
08-12-2009, 19:50
Yeah it's a bugger scraping the crispy skin off the glass! :lolsign:

Alex_UK
08-12-2009, 20:20
Hmmmm - not sure you're selling this to me, to be honest! :lol:

The Vinyl Adventure
08-12-2009, 20:24
... Your next alex, and you know it! I give you until march 8th next year before you make your mind up!

technobear
08-12-2009, 20:26
Hmmmm - not sure you're selling this to me, to be honest! :lol:

There's an easy answer. Buy a Croft. The valves are where they belong - inside! ;)

The Vinyl Adventure
08-12-2009, 20:37
Pish!! The risk of burning cat face just makes hifi ownership more fun!!

Themis
08-12-2009, 20:57
Pish!! The risk of burning cat face just makes hifi ownership more fun!!
:D

(poor cat^^ Don't worry, they don't approach, they are no fools^^)

anthonyTD
08-12-2009, 21:21
alex,
i totaly understand your concerns about little ones and hot valves etc, however, there are covered in versions, and as someone else has already sugested totaly concealed types too. also, if the equipment is high enough out of harms way etc. if your still not sold on the idea its completely understandable.
something to look into when she is older perhaps.:)
regards,anthony,TD...

Ali Tait
08-12-2009, 21:32
Yes indeed.I had WAD 300b PSE when my daughter was little.No problems at all.Just use a little common sense,or as Anthony says,use a valve cage.

Joe
08-12-2009, 21:39
Yes indeed.I had WAD 300b PSE when my daughter was little.No problems at all.Just use a little common sense,or as Anthony says,use a valve cage.

Or use a bigger cage for the child.

Ali Tait
08-12-2009, 21:56
:lolsign:

Alex_UK
08-12-2009, 22:35
I'm sure the "out of harms reach" problem could be sorted... One issue though would be a bit of a concern from what Hamish has eluded too - today, for example, I've been listening since about 7am, so my system has been on (actually it is never off, but for the purposes of this assume it is sometimes!) over 15 hours non-stop, with another couple to go - is that a problem for valve amps?

Marco
08-12-2009, 22:40
Nope - providing the amp (and where it's located) is well ventilated :)

Of course, such extended use means lower valve life, which can get expensive if (rare) NOS valves are being used... An HT on/off switch is therefore useful for periods of music inactivity.

Marco.

The Vinyl Adventure
08-12-2009, 22:42
I guess it could prob prove costly aparently these output valves have about 3000 hours in them and cost £200... ...
Marco, haven't you got some valves that last for donkeys years?

Marco
09-12-2009, 01:43
Yeah, the G.E.C KT88s in my Copper amp were first installed (brand new) in 1997, so they've had thousands of hours of use, yet test great, and above all sound superb...

That's quality for ya, ma man! :)

Marco.

Steve Toy
09-12-2009, 02:14
:( The TESLAs in mine have only roughly the same hours of expected use yet cost more than the GECs...

Having said that, the Copper amps don't drive output valves quite as hard as the Puresound but then the power output (30wpc) and HT are lower.

NB: we can't really refer to your amp as an A30 (refering to the rated power output in Class A) as Anthony's mods raised its measured power output to just shy of 40 wpc.

The good news is that Anthony has set aside two quads of GEC KT88s to replace my TESLAs and Marco's aging GECs. Marco's are over ten years old and 20 years of life is not unremarkable (more than we can say for Naim caps :o)

Ali Tait
09-12-2009, 14:30
Alex,
Another factor to take into account is thermal cycling I.e. lightbulbs always blow on switch on or off.You would get more hours out of valves by leaving them on rather than switching them on and off a couple of times a day.Not to say you should just leave the amp on all the time,just reduce as much as you can the amount of times you turn it on and off.

Alex_UK
09-12-2009, 14:52
Thanks Ali. To be honest, I'm thinking valves would be a longer-term standalone project - I have plans to build an extension in a couple of years and we are hoping to include an "adult" lounge - (no not that sort of "adult" Marco! ;)) so that the current lounge can become a Family Room, and we'll have a nice valve-based system in the "adult" lounge, with the Garrard 401 as a main source, (duly fettled) into some nice shiny bottles... Unfortunately the cash for the building project won't be available for a couple of years though. Well, we all need dreams, don't we?

Ali Tait
09-12-2009, 17:34
Sounds like a plan! Be great to have the chance to build a listening room from scratch.

DSJR
09-12-2009, 20:30
Well, three of the GEC KT66's in my Crofted Quad II's date from 1962 and are still running fine I think (HiFi dave gave me another GEC to replace the duff one), although they haven't had the kind of use that Marco no doubt gives his...

Alex - might it not be better to move when the time comes????????

Alex_UK
09-12-2009, 20:46
Alex - might it not be better to move when the time comes????????

Oh God no, I hate moving, hopefully I'll be here until they'll carry me out in a box (speaker enclosure, obviously!)

We'll see - but we love this house, and even after 5 years still pinch ourselves sometimes that it's ours (well, half ours and half the Britannia's!) - would just love a bit more room someday, not that we're short of it, really, would just be nice.

Spectral Morn
09-12-2009, 22:19
Nope - providing the amp (and where it's located) is well ventilated :)

Of course, such extended use means lower valve life, which can get expensive if (rare) NOS valves are being used... An HT on/off switch is therefore useful for periods of music inactivity.

Marco.

That was the thing I loved about the T&A V10 amplifier I had. You could do that and it would tell you how much life the valves had left in them (Valve Life Clock). It was stunning looking, but was veiled.

http://www.stereophile.com/images/archivesart/504ta.jpg


Regards D S D L