Thorens TD160 Super modifications

[Audioflyer]

I've always like the looks of the TD160 Super but not quite it's sound.

In isolation it sounds quite reasonable but I’ve always found it lacked fine detail and record surface noise to be on the high side.

The first TD160 Super I originally owned was in 1980 and was fitted with a Rega RB200 arm and Goldring G900igc it was eventually traded it in for a LP12.

About three years ago I came across a NOS one and bought it for £30 it came with ADC tonearm and VMS 20 mk11 cartridge.

I wanted to modify it and I’ve been playing around with stiffening the bearing house to see if the surface noise could be reduced.
My first attempt was a simple wooden collar with steel plates this may a big difference with a reduction in surface noise and restoring some of the missing fine detail.

http://i681.photobucket.com/albums/vv175/audioflyer/Thorens%20TD160%20Super%20Modifications/Mod%2001.jpg

http://i681.photobucket.com/albums/vv175/audioflyer/Thorens%20TD160%20Super%20Modifications/Mod%2002.jpg


This was my second solution to stiffen the bearing housing a tight fitting machine collar.

http://i681.photobucket.com/albums/vv175/audioflyer/Thorens%20TD160%20Super%20Modifications/Mod%2003%20Bearing.jpg

http://i681.photobucket.com/albums/vv175/audioflyer/Thorens%20TD160%20Super%20Modifications/Mod%2008%20Sub%20Chassis%20Assy-B.jpg

Surface noise was again reduced over the simple wood and metal modification, transient detail seems to be clearer and more fine detail restored.


More mods to follow to the sub chassis and suspension.

Sharif.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Ah happy memories I remember modding on of these, you've gone further than I did I will be watching your thread with interest.

[DSJR]

The KJ mod, researched by Robin Marshall no less, was to use a long block of wood, tightly snug, plus glued and bolted to the main bearing and adjacent sub chassis as you've done and acting as the arm board mount at the other end, this mount being another wooden piece of the same material coming up through the top plate. A crude belt-n-braces version of what Rega do today with better looking materials. It worked rather well, but of course any used residuals would be reduced because the deck isn't stock. I don't think all that many were done, maybe a couple of dozen or so. I believe Martin Colloms did similar with the LP12 pre Cirkus update, using Perspex around the LP12 bearing and clamping the whole thing up tightly, as you've done.

The 160 Super WAS better, the heavy duty plinth and mat improving matters I think. The main bearing on all 160's by this time was better tolerance than on mk1 versions I thought. I must do something with my 160mk2, which is in bits in the loft, either sell it or build it up.

[Audioflyer]

Following on from the above modification the next step was to improve the placement and focus of the music.

I didn’t want to over damping and kill the sound, so I tried adding a plywood inlay to the sub chassis but this did over dampened the sound.


Back to the drawing board or in my case (AutoCAD Inventor) I came up with this solution.

http://i681.photobucket.com/albums/vv175/audioflyer/Thorens%20TD160%20Super%20Modifications/Mod%2008%20Sub%20Chassis%20Assy-A.jpg

Using a non-scientific knuckle knock test and listening to the note produced without this mod the note had a longer sustain like a metallic ring.

After resetting the deck there was clearly some big improvement to the sound but one area that was missing was the bass, it had gained detail but lost the weight and slam.

I try setting up the suspension several times but each time I had the same results.

The next thing I tried was a set of LP12 springs that didn’t work as the suspension mounting stub were too short.

So a bit of drastic action was required to the TD160 top plate and remove the rear countersunk screw that’s hidden.

http://i681.photobucket.com/albums/vv175/audioflyer/Thorens%20TD160%20Super%20Modifications/Mod%2006A%20Top%20Plate.jpg


By using a 10mm wood bit drill I was able cut a hole and remove the screw.

http://i681.photobucket.com/albums/vv175/audioflyer/Thorens%20TD160%20Super%20Modifications/Mod%2006B%20Top%20Plate.jpg


New LP12 springs and high tensile screws.

http://i681.photobucket.com/albums/vv175/audioflyer/Thorens%20TD160%20Super%20Modifications/Mod%2007%20Linn%20Springs.jpg


After adding the LP12 spring and rubber mounts the bass was partially restored.

Final mechanical modification to follow.

Sharif.

[Audioflyer]

This bring me to the final part of the TD160 mechanical changes.

After fitting the LP12 springs and achieving a good bounce the sound was still lacking bass weight what was there was very good.

A bit more experimenting with the LP12 spring and I found they had an optimum point were the whole sound just fell in place.

So this is the solution I came up with by adding a mass ring around the main bearing this has allow me to tune the suspension for the sound I was looking for.

Compared to the original Thorens springs and the un-optimized LP12 spring adding the mass around the bearing reduced the torsion rotation.


http://i681.photobucket.com/albums/vv175/audioflyer/Thorens%20TD160%20Super%20Modifications/Mod%2008%20Sub%20Chassis%20Assy-C.jpg


http://i681.photobucket.com/albums/vv175/audioflyer/Thorens%20TD160%20Super%20Modifications/Mod%2008%20Sub%20Chassis%20Assy-D.jpg

Final set-up of the underside.

http://i681.photobucket.com/albums/vv175/audioflyer/Thorens%20TD160%20Super%20Modifications/Mod%2008%20Sub%20Chassis%20Assy-E.jpg


I was taken aback by the effects this had on bass guitar and drumming detail and it wasn't just about bass
every aspect timing, pitch and dynamics had been transformed, it was like a veil had been removed from the sound "I like what I'm hearing".

This was the TD160 Super that I brought along to the MiBO 2016.

There will be a part 4 & 5 but for now I'm just going to enjoy the sound that it making.

Sharif.

[amati74(Artur)]

This bring me to the final part of the TD160 mechanical changes.

After fitting the LP12 springs and achieving a good bounce the sound was still lacking bass weight what was there was very good.

A bit more experimenting with the LP12 spring and I found they had an optimum point were the whole sound just fell in place.

So this is the solution I came up with by adding a mass ring around the main bearing this has allow me to tune the suspension for the sound I was looking for.

Compared to the original Thorens springs and the un-optimized LP12 spring adding the mass around the bearing reduced the torsion rotation.


http://i681.photobucket.com/albums/vv175/audioflyer/Thorens%20TD160%20Super%20Modifications/Mod%2008%20Sub%20Chassis%20Assy-C.jpg


http://i681.photobucket.com/albums/vv175/audioflyer/Thorens%20TD160%20Super%20Modifications/Mod%2008%20Sub%20Chassis%20Assy-D.jpg

Final set-up of the underside.

http://i681.photobucket.com/albums/vv175/audioflyer/Thorens%20TD160%20Super%20Modifications/Mod%2008%20Sub%20Chassis%20Assy-E.jpg


I was taken aback by the effects this had on bass guitar and drumming detail and it wasn't just about bass
every aspect timing, pitch and dynamics had been transformed, it was like a veil had been removed from the sound "I like what I'm hearing".

This was the TD160 Super that I brought along to the MiBO 2016.

There will be a part 4 & 5 but for now I'm just going to enjoy the sound that it making.

Sharif.Hello, I am Artur, I would like to ask if your turntable is dampened with factory foam or is it a felt mat? I am a holder of thorens 160 mk 2 and I would like to dampen the chassis of the turntable, I thought about the self-adhesive felt mat, but I'm not sure it will be enough?
Artur

[struth]

i used cork on mine but many use dynamat.

[amati74(Artur)]

i used cork on mine but many use dynamat.Where can I buy dynamat?

[struth]

You will get it on eBay. Try the car stuff. It's same stuff but cheaper. Will look for a link

[struth]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Silent-Coat-2mm-10-Sheets-Car-Deadening-Vibration-Sound-Proofing-Damping-Mat/161282941044?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

[amati74(Artur)]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Silent-Coat-2mm-10-Sheets-Car-Deadening-Vibration-Sound-Proofing-Damping-Mat/161282941044?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649Thanks[emoji3]

[amati74(Artur)]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Silent-Coat-2mm-10-Sheets-Car-Deadening-Vibration-Sound-Proofing-Damping-Mat/161282941044?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649Do you now some one who us it, I need any options.

[walpurgis]

Artur, you may want to look through this thread about the Systemdek IIX. Many of the upgrade modifications discussed apply to the Thorens.

http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?56875-Frontend-upgrade-path

[maxrob200]

I believe optimum bounce on LP 12 is 3.5 Hz

[amati74(Artur)]

Thank you