View Full Version : How much is reasonable to spend on a hobby - per day, per week, per year?
dave2010
10-10-2016, 14:15
The question above obviously has different answers depending on the wealth of the responders. Some people play golf, and even before they go on a golf course, they are paying £££s for a subscription, then there's the clubs, and the clothes, not to mention the drinks. Others go on holiday, and one might think holidays have gone out of fashion. Others may go walking, and simply replace their shoes and walking clothes from time to time - notionally cheap enough.
Recently I had a hard drive fail, but trying to rationalise this, suggests that if it is written off in a year, that's under £1 per week. I don't get drive failures every year.
I probably do buy a lot of drives - should these be considered as consumables or as a form of capital equipment?
Some around here probably buy and sell audio equipment frequently - and I'm not thinking only of the dealers, but hobbyists. Just like my former neighbour, who liked to buy and sell cars.
Some equipment does wear out, but some keeps going, and some becomes obsolete because of incompatibilities. I have had a Sony Mini DV camera for years - hardly used it at all. Recently I discovered that it is perfectly usable, though the tape is a limitation. The good thing is that the optical zoom on the camera enables good quality video to be generated, but then the problem is getting the video off the tape. Not a problem for me, as I still have a Firewire cable, and a couple of machines which can handle that, but sometimes kit can be obsoleted very quickly.
Should one simply treat any such kit as consumables, to be allocated to projects? Just random thoughts - wonder what others think.
Difficult to say; I probably spend at least £1,000 a year on wine (a consumable) and the same amount on audio software (which is not a consumable). I like to travel and usually have two foreign holidays a year (again these can be considered as consumables), on which I can often spend £5,000 or more. But I don't really have a 'budget' for any of my interests.
walpurgis
10-10-2016, 14:34
But I don't really have a 'budget' for any of my interests.
Nor me. Mind you being retired on a pension means I am basically on a budget for everything (unless I do a bit of wheeling and dealing :)).
Nor me. Mind you being retired on a pension means I am basically on a budget for everything (unless I do a bit of wheeling and dealing :)).
I used to have a budget for wine, much to the amusement of my financial advisor.
I ought to have a budget for stylus replacement (obviously a consumable), but again I'm not that organised.
My budget is sell to buy. Sometimes sell to keep going lol .... never had a budget as such, just if i could afford it id buy it or save up for it.
dave2010
10-10-2016, 15:43
My budget is sell to buy. Sometimes sell to keep going lol .... never had a budget as such, just if i could afford it id buy it or save up for it.I can't really do that. I usually find that most stuff I get depreciates a lot, so I'd have to get rid of (sell) a lot of stuff in order to by anything new (or even "new" second hand). Usually it gets put away, passed on, and/or eventually dumped. Easier to treat some "stuff" as consumables.
£1000 a year on wine is "only" £20 per week, so that's either 4 bottles of cheap plonk, or one bottle of something better, or maybe even only one case of really expensive wine each year. I'm sure many people drink that much in beer, or spend it on fags.
Then of course there's eating. Starving is not an option which many of us like, but it is possible to live on cans of beans (say 40p from Lidl), whereas it's easily possible to go out every day and spend £50 per meal. Most of us are somewhere between, I'd guess.
I go to concerts and theatres. Typically tickets are between £15-£40, but then there's usually travel and eating involved too. A day out for two people usually costs £100. If opera is involved the costs can go up a lot. I also hear that football, rugby and cricket matches are expensive, though I don't do those.
walpurgis
10-10-2016, 16:01
I usually find that most stuff I get depreciates a lot
I find the opposite generally. I buy stuff that I like, which coincidentally gets latched onto by people and prices go up. Like vintage Decca carts, Tannoys (which I've been using for over forty years), my Monarchy Audio gear (rare now and going up in value). My collection of vintage loudspeaker drive units (they've gone really daft on prices). Mission 774 arm (I bought three before they started going up, doubled in value in a couple of years). Sheer chance.........or good taste? :D
Oh. And I forgot Lenco turntables :).
Sherwood
10-10-2016, 16:43
I don't have a budget for any of my leisure pursuits but I do tend to think in terms of annual equivalent costs rather than acquisition costs. In performing these calculations I make the assumption that the product has no commercial value at the end of the specified period.
To illustrate, I typically estimate the likely working life of a product in years and divide the purchase price by that figure. For electronics in general, I aim to get a minimum of 3 years use, so that a one thousand pound amplifier works out at just three hundred and thirty pounds a year or less than one pound a day. Although, I accept that modern electronics are more reliable than they used to be, I am quite risk averse by nature and have had a few bad experiences with domestic appliances recently which expired almost immediately to the day that their short warranties expired.
Given the opportunity I will now purchase electronics from retailers that offer an extended warranty for free, or as an add-on if that add on if it is attractively priced. My 46" Toshiba TV was purchased from John Lewis with a free 5 year warranty for six hundred and fifty quid. This equates to one hundred and thirty pounds a year or two pounds fifty pence a week. The warranty proved its worth have way through the warranty period when the tv boot up process froze. A call to John Lewis and an engineer came out to my home to check and collect the tv, and then returned two days later with the fault corrected. I also purchased my Samsung tablet and Asus ultraportable PC from John Lewis, to each of which I added a 3 three warranty that covered accidental damage for less than one hundred quid. The reason for purchasing the additional warranty is that it is very easy to damage a tablet or a pc when travelling and typically very costly, sometimes prohibitively so, to have such items repaired. With both of these products I can be sure of my costs over first three years of ownership.
I find that as I get older, I am better able to resist the temptation to replace my gadgets every year or two. My Nexus 5 phone, bought off contract will be three years old next month. It is still meeting my needs and I am pleased that it has now cost me less than ten quid per month. However, I suspect Santa Geoff may be delivering a new phone at the end of this year.
Returning to hifi, I expect speakers to last longer than electronics and to be more cost-effective to repair than electronics. My Rogers LS35a speakers cost me one hundred and fifty pounds new (I still have the receipt) which equates to four quid per year over the total ownership period. Last year I purchased a custom built loudspeaker from Omega Loudspeakers, effectively the Super 7 monitor with Alnico drivers http://omegaloudspeakers.com/super7monitormk2.html. Being a single drive unit there is .o crossover, and the speaker is extremely efficient. Quality of construction and finish is excellent, and although it too a long time to burn in, the speaker gives my Magneplanar 1.7s a run for their money. All this comes with an impressive 10 year parts and labour warranty which gives a reassurance about the speaker being a sound investment.
Geoff
10x more than you tell the wife 😉
dave2010
10-10-2016, 16:54
I find the opposite generally. I buy stuff that I like, which coincidentally gets latched onto by people and prices go up. Like vintage Decca carts, Tannoys (which I've been using for over forty years), my Monarchy Audio gear (rare now and going up in value). My collection of vintage loudspeaker drive units (they've gone really daft on prices). Mission 774 arm (I bought three before they started going up, doubled in value in a couple of years). Sheer chance.........or good taste? :D
Oh. And I forgot Lenco turntables :).Maybe you're right about some "stuff" - good quality hi-fi kit, but I was thinking more generally. I hadn't thought there'd be a serious market for loudspeaker drive units, for example.
I do have a few bits of kit lying around - a Garrard 401 deck, a couple of SME arms, a Thorens deck (can't remember the model) and a rather good Sony cassette deck. Also a high end Sony DAB tuner. Plus a few bits of near junk. But to realise high prices I'd probably have to have all this stuff serviced, or try to do it myself, which might not work out too well.
Most things do depreciate, so hoarding stuff in the hope that it will be sellable at higher prices to sustain further buying is not, for most of us, a good strategy.
I'm still waiting for one of the original Apple Macs I have in a wardrobe to become a vintage item! I did have some Apple IIs - both working and in reasonable condition, but in the end I took them to the dump. I read that an Apple I (I never had one of those) sold recently for a high price. Wouldn't quite buy a flat in the London area though - http://fortune.com/2016/08/26/apple-i-auction/
Don't you ever buy things which go down? A new or second hand car, for example. Modern TV sets - which will be more or less worthless in 5 years time. Even collectible things are variable. This year's "best thing" may be next year's "there's no demand for it" - for example antique furniture, or collectible antique china, or silver goods etc. Of course, with hindsight, most depreciation "could have been" turned into appreciation, but mostly the world, and economics, doesn't work like that.
dave2010
10-10-2016, 16:56
10x more than you tell the wife ��Yes, but have you looked in her wardrobe?
walpurgis
10-10-2016, 17:07
Yes. Of course some of my purchases go down in value.
Cars generally do, but not always. I have three and my favourite runabout a twelve year old Peugeot Partner diesel is holding its own. There is a demand for low mileage examples.
I definitely expect my recently purchased small motorbike (Honda ANF 125 Innova) to go up in value, they are developing a cult following. As did the preceding C90 model.
My lathe is now worth twice what I paid for it new about five years ago. Actually, I've been watching the prices of used engineering equipment and they have been climbing like mad. Good job I have what I need. :)
Whenever I buy anything I don't expect any of it to appreciate in value. My TV, car, mobile phone, washing machine, coffee maker etc. are virtually worthless, but are still working and giving me service.
On the other hand, my cameras (film), wristwatch, and much of my audio gear is now worth several times what was paid for it. Not that it matters; it was bought to be used and enjoyed, not as an investment.
Yes but if you can do both or at least keep most of its cost then its a bonus. Records for instance often keep most of their value while my dresses are worthless;)
I only have audio as a hobby. A few years back, to control my box swapping, I decided to limit myself to a grand a year, which is really the upper limit of what I can afford. I buy what I fancy provided the price is reasonable for what it is. Don't care if it doesn't appreciate, which is good since it never does.
Otherwise I don't worry about money at all. Life's too short. When it's gone it's gone and you can always make more of it in any case. What's the point in going out to work every day then counting the pennies every time you put your hand in your pocket? It's there to be enjoyed, not to fret about.
walpurgis
10-10-2016, 17:32
while my dresses are worthless;)
Oh, I don't know. Some of the more luridly unusual ones could fetch a bit Grant.:eek:
Sherwood
10-10-2016, 18:17
I never consider hifi as an investment. For me, it is all about the stream of benefits I enjoy from listening to music. If the equipment keeps any residual value that is great, but I am aware that any piece of hifi equipment could fail at any time and that it may not be cost effective to repair.
Not really an investment!
Geoff
Some turntables have gone up in value a lot. I have 4 decks all of which have gone up in value significantly - 50% or so - in a few years. Vintage Tannoy DC drivers gone up loads, even the old cabs. Used to be you'd struggle to give the cabs away. In about '93 I turned down about 20 free Lenco GL75s, all in great condition, because back then they were literally worthless. At todays prices that's about 2 grand worth of turntables.
dave2010
10-10-2016, 18:50
Yes but if you can do both or at least keep most of its cost then its a bonus. Records for instance often keep most of their value while my dresses are worthless;)It's only a bonus if you want to sell. If I had a record or CD which I really, really liked I'd probably not sell it anyway. The only benefit is for someone else who might acquire it later. It could be useful I suppose as a form of insurance, in case things got really bad, but then I don't suppose anyone else would have any money or useful things to trade with me (Weimar Republic stuff, wheelbarrows more valuable than the piles of money ...).
Part of this discussion arose because of recordings I have done recently. I did them because I was asked to, and I quite enjoy the challenge. It has actually cost me - not just time, but also money spent on kit and storage drives etc. I could try to value that, and maybe sell some later on, but it occurred to me that I will just write it off - hence it will probably function as consumable stuff. The value to me is mainly in the experience, rather than the stuff.
Not everything is like that. If I were more hard up I'd probably be finding something to do, and something which I could do profitably - which hopefully would be something I could do, and preferable something I'd like to do, and something which others wanted me to do and would pay for. Life isn't always like that though, and many people don't work for fun, or get remuneration for doing things they really like, though possibly they do try to do things which they dislike least.
If I go on holiday, I don't expect to have much concrete left when I return. OK - maybe a few souvenirs, but it's the experience which counts. As suggested earlier, holidays could cost as much as £5000 per person - perhaps more. It's the experience which counts.
If I wanted to explore film making/editing, I could buy a high performance computer for (say) £4k, and some storage - total cost of stuff perhaps £6k, and enroll in a course. Oh maybe I'd buy a camera or two as well. The point is though that if it's the experience that counts, the "stuff" can be written off once the experience has been gained. If it can be reused, or sold, either to partially recover depreciation, or even to make a profit on the capital appreciation, then that's a bonus, but may not be the primary motivation for hobbyists.
People trying to set up or run a business will have a different view of the process.
walpurgis
10-10-2016, 18:59
Just wondering what my record collection might be worth. Plenty of sixties, seventies and eighties original albums. Mainly Rock, Prog and Psychedelic Rock, some Heavy Rock. No middle of the road garbage. Some haven't been played for twenty years, so they're just taking up space.
martian sunrise
10-10-2016, 19:07
Just wondering what my record collection might be worth. Plenty of sixties, seventies and eighties original albums. Mainly Rock, Prog and Psychedelic Rock, some Heavy Rock. No middle of the road garbage. Some haven't been played for twenty years, so they're just taking up space.
Sounds ace - if you ever want to shift any of it...
(Can't blame a man for putting it out there :) )
martian sunrise
10-10-2016, 19:12
Seriously though. One should be able to offset the cost of the hobby with the 'value now' off some of the investments made. Especially with vinyl first pressings. I have a thing for Roger Dean stuff and early stamps are crazy now. I have a copy of Clear Blue Sky that I bought at a boot sale that just went for 230 quids!!! (Not my sale, I might add...)
walpurgis
10-10-2016, 19:53
Wonder what this would fetch?
http://i63.tinypic.com/ncz786.jpg
Original 1969 'Magical Love' by Saturnalia. One of the earliest picture albums, with all figures shown, centre motif and booklet. Excellent condition.
martian sunrise
10-10-2016, 20:06
The worlds 1st 3D picture disc! Just had a look on discos and they go for about 15-20 euro
Again, records are bought not for their resale value, but for their musical content. All my records were bought because I like to listen to them. Some of them might be of interest to other music lovers, and they might offer me a good price, whereas some of my records which have sentimental value to me and are thus 'valuable, might easily be regarded as worthless by others.
The actual value of my records, according to record-buyer's guides; much beloved by record dealers and traders, would vary between a few quid and a couple of hundred each. But again it's irrelevent to me; they were bought for enjoyment - not as an investment.
walpurgis
10-10-2016, 20:36
The worlds 1st 3D picture disc! Just had a look on discos and they go for about 15-20 euro
Not with the centre logo and booklet. Many of the cheap ones have a slightly different picture too. Quite a few re-issues about.
martian sunrise
10-10-2016, 21:04
^^Totally agree. I was just considering the 'reasonable-ness' of in vestment in the hobby. I have a racing car, which, unless it is something rare and handed down from your father, is just like sitting fire to money. A life of collecting records, especially for some of the more vintage members of the forum, can at least back up some man-maths when a big upgrade is on the table.
martian sunrise
10-10-2016, 21:07
Not with the centre logo and booklet. Many of the cheap ones have a slightly different picture too. Quite a few re-issues about.
Ah, okay. I just had a quick google. Cool record, btw. I'm listening to it now
Again, records are bought not for their resale value, but for their musical content. All my records were bought because I like to listen to them. Some of them might be of interest to other music lovers, and they might offer me a good price, whereas some of my records which have sentimental value to me and are thus 'valuable, might easily be regarded as worthless by others.
The actual value of my records, according to record-buyer's guides; much beloved by record dealers and traders, would vary between a few quid and a couple of hundred each. But again it's irrelevent to me; they were bought for enjoyment - not as an investment.
MMn, I didnt exactly buy them as an investment, but they are now. Not as good as property of course. At one time they were worthless so its good that I didnt just chuck them out. Blues was my hobby for years
Its real music by real people
martian sunrise
10-10-2016, 21:17
That's the thing though, loads of hobby-related things that are worth money now weren't bought as investments. Nowadays, be it trainers, watches, whatever, things are released as limited editions/coloured vinyl/GTS model, blah blah blah, with a view to being a collectors' item. It will be interesting to see market fads in 20 or so years.
walpurgis
10-10-2016, 21:26
Ah, okay. I just had a quick google. Cool record, btw. I'm listening to it now
'Traitor' is a good track.
martian sunrise
10-10-2016, 21:40
'Winchester Town' is outstanding. I've got it on again.
martian sunrise
10-10-2016, 21:41
Should I make you an offer for the record? :)
walpurgis
10-10-2016, 21:44
Should I make you an offer for the record? :)
Nope. Didn't say that was one of those I may part with. I quite like it! :D
martian sunrise
10-10-2016, 21:47
Hehe. I've spent the coal money this month anyway - the Mrs would murder me. Cheers for the heads-up
The interesting thing about limited edition versions on coloured vinyl, picture disks, special sleeves, sleeves signed by the artist(e) etc. is that it all leaves me cold.
I want my LPs to be on black vinyl, and am not the least bit interested in signed copies, different centre labels, promotional copies ("not for resale") or what have you. It may add to the desirability by some, but not to me.
(I do have an LP where the centre labels are reversed: the label for side 1 is on side 2 and vice versa. Does that make it anymore valuable? It's just a bloody nusance to me! :lol:)
As long as you're not getting into debt or starving your children I don't think there's such a thing as a 'reasonable' amount for hobbies, however defined. I don't budget very closely; I know how much the 'essentials' cost, and whatever's left over is up for grabs in terms of holidays, wine, books, music etc. I have stopped buying hifi and have some excess bits I could flog, but we don't actually need the money so there's no panic.
walpurgis
10-10-2016, 22:07
The interesting thing about limited edition versions on coloured vinyl, picture disks, special sleeves, sleeves signed by the artist(e) etc. is that it all leaves me cold.
I want my LPs to be on black vinyl, and am not the least bit interested in signed copies, different centre labels, promotional copies ("not for resale") or what have you. It may add to the desirability by some, but not to me.
I'm much the same actually. I stopped reading album sleeves and being impressed by the artwork when I was about twenty. I don't even pay that much attention to lyrics as a rule (unless of course I'm listening to a bit of CSNY, Zappa, Cohen, etc......not that I can figure Cohen too much :)). (oh. and Patti Smith)
Same with equipment. I don't care much what it looks like. It just has to sound how I like (and be black, no silver, no no no!).
I'm much the same actually. I stopped reading album sleeves and being impressed by the artwork when I was about twenty. I don't even pay that much attention to lyrics as a rule (unless of course I'm listening to a bit of CSNY, Zappa, Cohen, etc......not that I can figure Cohen too much :)). (oh. and Patti Smith)
Same with equipment. I don't care much what it looks like. It just has to sound how I like (and be black, no silver, no no no!).
Oh - I do have an interest in the sleeve artwork (and have a few books on the subject) but you're right, it has no bearing on the sound.
As for lyrics, I would add Bob Dylan, Joni Mitchell, Suzanne Vega and Ian Dury to your list. :)
And yes, black-coloured gear is aesthetically preferable to me and is what I largely have and use (apart from some 'snot-green' coloured Quad gear :lol:).
Sherwood
11-10-2016, 08:20
As long as you're not getting into debt or starving your children I don't think there's such a thing as a 'reasonable' amount for hobbies, however defined. I don't budget very closely; I know how much the 'essentials' cost, and whatever's left over is up for grabs in terms of holidays, wine, books, music etc. I have stopped buying hifi and have some excess bits I could flog, but we don't actually need the money so there's no panic.
I agree with Joe. My estimates of annual costs of ownership is just a mental exercise to justify purchases to myself. It is an occupational hazard for me as I am an economist and so professionally spend my time advising others of the merits or otherwise of how to use their scarce resources. It can be a helpful exercise to think about opportunity costs: namely, what we forego when we commit our resources to one use rather than another. The estimates below are based upon my earlier posting and current costs in Nottinghamshire East Midlands.
1) New CD = Basic take away meal for one person from local restaurant (e.g. Pizza)
2) Ticket for live performance at pub venue = Better take away meal for one person (e.g. Indian or Thai meal)
3) Daily equivalent cost of using a 5000 quid hifi system = Large latte coffee at high street shop. (This is based upon straight line depreciation of costs over 5 years with no residual value).
I think many will be surprised by how modest these figures are (even under somewhat pessimistic assumptions about the operational life of a hifi system).
Geoff
walpurgis
11-10-2016, 08:31
When there's a grumble here about me forking out for something around the home, I get the inevitable 'but you spent thousands on that Hi-Fi of yours'. To which I have to point out that it was over the course of thirty (or more) years and the cost broken down is minimal. Toilet paper has probably cost me more.
Sherwood
11-10-2016, 10:18
When there's a grumble here about me forking out for something around the home, I get the inevitable 'but you spent thousands on that Hi-Fi of yours'. To which I have to point out that it was over the course of thirty (or more) years and the cost broken down is minimal. Toilet paper has probably cost me more.
Please keep your IBS to yourself!:(
walpurgis
11-10-2016, 10:41
Please keep your IBS to yourself!:(
But I'm not a member of the Institute for Biological Sciences. :scratch:
Irritable bowel syndrome ... which wasnt the point geoff was a makin'.. just that some hobbies can be self sustaining if you do it right. Jerry probably goes through a dozen or more bits of kit every quarter, but it probably costs him little if anything. Cheaper than smoking
Sherwood
11-10-2016, 11:02
If it's cheaper than toilet paper then it's time for a medical!
Geoff
Average family spends between 3 and 6 grand in bog roll over 30 years believe it or not. More if youve got young kids
Sherwood
11-10-2016, 11:21
According to the Guardian, the average household spend on toilet paper is just over 40 quid per annum and falling with bulk purchasing becoming more common (i.e. 16 rolls packs).
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2016/mar/02/uk-shoppers-buy-cheaper-toilet-paper-to-cut-costs
Over 25 years that works out around a grand: not much in terms of hifi purchasing power.
Geoff
Must be very frugal users those Guardian readers ;) i use a roll a week on average, and always buy the best. Tesco quilted lol. Same with kitchen rolls. No point in buying rubbish.
walpurgis
11-10-2016, 11:46
Must be very frugal users those Guardian readers ;) i use a roll a week on average, and always buy the best. Tesco quilted lol. Same with kitchen rolls. No point in buying rubbish.
A roll and a half to two rolls daily here.
A roll and a half to two rolls daily here.
Youve a lot of folk in house including grandkids who are extravagant lol. My daughter is same.
Sherwood
11-10-2016, 11:56
A roll and a half to two rolls daily here.
Perhaps you should consider a bidet! Wouldn't take long to buy a mega hifi with the savings!:confused:
Alternatively, you could fit a commercial coin slot on the door. I reckon 20p a time would be a good rate for a hifi fund!
Geoff
I had a vegetarian mate lodging with me once who went through 2 rolls a day. I insisted that he start buying his own, so he pinched one of those huge rolls from work, the sort that locks inside a drum dispenser. That lasted us months.
I was waiting in the checkout queue at Sainsbury's a while back, and the three young women just behind me started a long discussion about how many sheets of loo roll they used per 'visit'. It seemed to vary between one and six.
Spectral Morn
11-10-2016, 13:12
If I get into something as a Hobby, then I really get into it, and that does lead to spending money to pursue the interest. I wouldn't set a budget as such, more a case of me thinking something is priced ok for what it is, condition and desirability, and if it fills a whole in my collection.
HiFi interests me less each year, I am pretty happy with what I've got, so whole sale changes I won't be making so its only if particular long held itches come up that sees me spending any money on this.
Music is still an active interest, but films less so, I wait now days till DVDs or Blu Rays are on sale cheap. Not so driven to get it on the day of release, same is true of music as well.
Re reselling well unless its trendy, or vintage desirable then getting your money back or thinking you might is a mugs game, some manage but most don't. I don't tend to buy as speculation, as again its too easy to get caught out.
Spectral Morn
11-10-2016, 13:14
I was waiting in the checkout queue at Sainsbury's a while back, and the three young women just behind me started a long discussion about how many sheets of loo roll they used per 'visit'. It seemed to vary between one and six.
That seems very little to me to be clean :scratch: Me thinks there are a lot of dirt birds about.
dave2010
11-10-2016, 13:20
That seems very little to me to be clean :scratch: Me thinks there are a lot of dirt birds about.Ouch - I didn't expect this subject to come up here. I think that the people concerned probably used it in a different way from what you expected.
dave2010
11-10-2016, 13:26
According to the Guardian, the average household spend on toilet paper is just over 40 quid per annum and falling with bulk purchasing becoming more common (i.e. 16 rolls packs).
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2016/mar/02/uk-shoppers-buy-cheaper-toilet-paper-to-cut-costs
Over 25 years that works out around a grand: not much in terms of hifi purchasing power.
GeoffMmm. Quick calculation - say 2 BRs per week for a family - that's 100 per year, so at LIDL bulk pack rates around 24 for about £7, that's £28 per year. Over 30 years that £840. OK - some families may have kids that use a lot, or someone else who uses a lot (medical reasons), or maybe most homes just have one of those damn Andrex dogs which keep running off with the rolls.
Ouch - I didn't expect this subject to come up here. I think that the people concerned probably used it in a different way from what you expected.
Sorry to have lowered the tone. Indeed, I think that what was referred to as 'a visit' by these young women was something us chaps would do standing up. I think they were in a shared house and were wondering how they got through so many loo rolls in a week.
Perhaps you should consider a bidet! Wouldn't take long to buy a mega hifi with the savings!:confused:
Alternatively, you could fit a commercial coin slot on the door. I reckon 20p a time would be a good rate for a hifi fund!
Geoff
No need for that attitude. If you have a problem with posts you dont like then stop reading them. Dont insult folk.
Thanks.
When we bought this house we had a structural survey done. It was mostly a statement of the bleeding obvious ('walls are mostly of brick construction'), but one bit that made us laugh out loud was the reference to the fact that there was only one bathroom which, in the words of the report, 'might lead to delays at peak periods'.
dave2010
11-10-2016, 14:41
LIDL had these a few weeks ago - £2.50
http://i.imgur.com/IqGz9WC.jpg
I didn't know the current "topic" had become a hobby!
Sherwood
11-10-2016, 14:47
No need for that attitude. If you have a problem with posts you dont like then stop reading them. Dont insult folk.
Thanks.
If you think that was an intended as an insult I think that says more about you than it does me.
If you think that was an intended as an insult I think that says more about you than it does me.
I read it as a joke but you are quite new here and sometimes it is easy to misread a new member's posting style as you are not used to them. There's no harm done.
Spectral Morn
11-10-2016, 15:49
ok I think the thread has gone too far :offtopic: so maybe time to get back to hobbies and lets leave the loo roll use to another thread, or not at all which might be better.
dave2010
11-10-2016, 17:00
Drifing back onto topic .....
The usual economic measures are in terms of Macdonald's beefburgers, but that'll take us elsewhere again.
We seem to have some agreement that some kit can last so long that on a day by day basis or even a year by year basis, the costs are not too large. Thus speakers which I bought 40 odd years ago for perhaps £200, would have cost £0.01369863... over the period or in other numbers about 1.4p per day. That ignores any inflationary effects and considerations of what the current value of £200 then would be now. For that we might need something like this - http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-1633409/Historic-inflation-calculator-value-money-changed-1900.html which comes up with a staggering £1515.28 - a sum which I definitely could not afford back then, and even now I'd be reluctant to spend that much.
I think that shows that in real terms many things have got cheaper. Even where some vintage kit has seemingly gone up in price, if one is really trying to make money, then one also has to factor in inflation, so a £1000 item 20 years ago, which is now valued as a prestige historical artefact at (say) £3000 - picking numbers at random out of nowhere - would have a today's value of £1,734.62 - so indeed, in that hypothetical case, there would be an increase in monetary value of 73% i.e its "real" value today would be 173% of what might be expected by inflation.
So what do we all spend money on for fun or hobbies? I spend it on CDs mostly, with hi-fi kit coming quite low down. Othewise it's travel, going to concerts, theatre, and photography. Perhaps computers are a hobby, though I think they are also pretty much a useful/necessary tool these days. Mostly computers depreciate. My first laptop was bought around 1997, and cost about £1500. That's over £2500 in today's money, and its value is about zero, though it still goes. Similarly, another laptop bought in 2005 for over £1000 is now worthless (today's money=£1385) as is the Asus netbook bought around 2008 for £300 (today=375).
Cameras are another type of object with significant price changes. A friend of mine had an SLR as a present over a decade ago. I think it was probably then in the high £00s. Now there are much better SLR cameras for less. I have some early digital cameras which I suspect are now worthless, except perhaps as museum pieces, though some of the better early digital cameras might still have some value today.
I used to spend time in CD shops looking for bargains, but there aren't many of those (CD shops) now, and the ones which are left aren't usually great. I often used to "save" money by buying a bunch of CDs for around £100, but which "should" have been priced at twice that.
Until recently I was probably spending around £1000 pa on CDs, but in recent years mostly box sets, so that's a lot of CDS - usually costing under £2 per CD.
walpurgis
11-10-2016, 17:54
So what do we all spend money on for fun or hobbies?
Not much really.
These days, I don't often buy anything apart from food and of course a bit of beer. I don't 'holiday' in the accepted sense. Stopped using pubs. Don't spend money on women (got one I want to unload already :rolleyes:). I have all the music I need. The mountains of decent Hi-Fi I retain suit my purposes (and need to be thinned down).
I have everything I need generally, too many possessions to tell the truth. I think tools are about the only thing that still catch my eye. I like tools! :D Oh. And books.
Mind you. If handguns were still legal, I'd be tempted to own a couple. I used to enjoy a bit of shooting. I'm a very good shot :).
Sherwood
11-10-2016, 18:52
Drifing back onto topic .....
The usual economic measures are in terms of Macdonald's beefburgers, but that'll take us elsewhere again.
We seem to have some agreement that some kit can last so long that on a day by day basis or even a year by year basis, the costs are not too large. Thus speakers which I bought 40 odd years ago for perhaps £200, would have cost £0.01369863... over the period or in other numbers about 1.4p per day. That ignores any inflationary effects and considerations of what the current value of £200 then would be now. For that we might need something like this - http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-1633409/Historic-inflation-calculator-value-money-changed-1900.html which comes up with a staggering £1515.28 - a sum which I definitely could not afford back then, and even now I'd be reluctant to spend that much.
I think that shows that in real terms many things have got cheaper. Even where some vintage kit has seemingly gone up in price, if one is really trying to make money, then one also has to factor in inflation, so a £1000 item 20 years ago, which is now valued as a prestige historical artefact at (say) £3000 - picking numbers at random out of nowhere - would have a today's value of £1,734.62 - so indeed, in that hypothetical case, there would be an increase in monetary value of 73% i.e its "real" value today would be 173% of what might be expected by inflation.
So what do we all spend money on for fun or hobbies? I spend it on CDs mostly, with hi-fi kit coming quite low down. Othewise it's travel, going to concerts, theatre, and photography. Perhaps computers are a hobby, though I think they are also pretty much a useful/necessary tool these days. Mostly computers depreciate. My first laptop was bought around 1997, and cost about £1500. That's over £2500 in today's money, and its value is about zero, though it still goes. Similarly, another laptop bought in 2005 for over £1000 is now worthless (today's money=£1385) as is the Asus netbook bought around 2008 for £300 (today=375).
Cameras are another type of object with significant price changes. A friend of mine had an SLR as a present over a decade ago. I think it was probably then in the high £00s. Now there are much better SLR cameras for less. I have some early digital cameras which I suspect are now worthless, except perhaps as museum pieces, though some of the better early digital cameras might still have some value today.
I used to spend time in CD shops looking for bargains, but there aren't many of those (CD shops) now, and the ones which are left aren't usually great. I often used to "save" money by buying a bunch of CDs for around £100, but which "should" have been priced at twice that.
Until recently I was probably spending around £1000 pa on CDs, but in recent years mostly box sets, so that's a lot of CDS - usually costing under £2 per CD.
Dave,
the figure that you quote for the current equivalent worth of 200 pound in 1976 is valid but only one of several methods economists use to calculate annual equivalent cost (AEC). One method is to take a price deflator for each year or an average for the whole period. If we take 5%, for example, we need to apply the power n, to the figure of 1.05 to get the adjustment to today's prices where n=the number of years. Today's prices using a 5% deflator are 7 times those of 40 years ago making the 150 quid I paid for my Rogers LS35a speakers equivalent to just over one grand in today's money. If I recall, the current price for new licensed LS35a speakers is around 1500 pounds or 10 times what I paid, which is equivalent to an average of 6% price increase per annum.
The government uses a variety of price deflators according to their fancy. The retail price index is based upon an assumed representative bundle of monthly household purchases, updated over the years to reflect changing tastes and preferences. Although the RPI did include spending on audiovisual equipment in 1976 the weightings used make it unlikely to be a good indicator of the relative affordability of hifi over the years. For that, other indices based upon earnings and disposble income are likely to be more useful (e.g. the time taken to pay for specific goods and services in hours or days as appropriate). Forum members might be interested in this site which discusses the different ways of calculating AEC and provides tools to perform the relevant calculations.
https://www.measuringworth.com/
Whilst I accept that current production LS35a speakers cost 10 times what I paid for them 40 years ago, I cannot get my head around having spent that much in equivalent terms as a student back then. Of course I had a grant, no fees, and worked every vacation break but still!
Geoff
dave2010
12-10-2016, 06:12
The particular web site which provided the calculations probably had a year on year value for inflation, and during the 1970s some years had very high inflation. That almost certainly explains why some of the values I quoted previously seemed so high.
My first job paid around £5-6 per week,if I remember correctly. Then I became a student, and after a while started working again. I think it was some time before I was making £10 per week, and despite grants etc. I did run into serious deficit problems for a while. Had a landlord, and used to delay paying the rent - sometimes for weeks, though mostly we got on well, and often went out drinking together. It took years to stabilise all this, though I do recall the weeks when I had actually earned and saved enough money to buy books at about £6 each - in the early 1970s.
Reading and book collecting used to be a good way to pass the time.
Sadly I can also remember from my earliest drinking days when beer was even under a shilling a pint - I think it was 11d for a pint of mild, and later in the 1970s - shock horror - petrol went up to over 3 shillings per gallon.
I think some students and young people these days are familiar with some of the stringencies of not having enough money, and mostly they don't have the luxury of a grant.
I agree that the relative numbers do seem scary - but also think that many things which we have now didn't even have a price in the 1970s or even 1980s. CD players, DVD players, High Def TVs, consumer video cameras, PVRs, microwave ovens, personal computers, and maybe you can think of a few more.
I'm not rich, but a while back I started to think that the savings in the bank weren't really doing much for me, especially at the interest rates on offer. So, I decided to put a chunk into 'the hobby', and get some enjoyment out of it, rather than it just being a number in the bank's computer. Yes, I've lost a few grand over the years, usually by buying new at rrp, but over the last 20 years, it's worked out at much less than a grand a year. Most of the equipment has been bought used or ex-dem, and kept or sold on with no significant loss. The system I have now will outlast me, and I expect the only real expense in the future will be cartridges and servicing ... and mono jazz records :doh:
OTOH, things like cars, TVs, appliances, carpets, clothes, etc are all bought with reliability and longevity in mind, as they are all 'consumables' in my mind i.e. expenses, not investments. BTW, my other hobby is table-tennis, which costs about £12 a week in match fees, petrol, and equipment renewal, but gives me great social and fitness benefits. Come to think of it, most people that I've met who are into our hobby also seem to have a healthy hobby (walking, cycling, sailing, dancing, etc) to counter the couch potato aspect of music appreciation.
Good post Peter
Of course there are many inexpensive hobbies: reading; playing card games, watching TV, etc. for which the running costs are small, or in some cases virtually nil. However these are sendentary activities.
When it comes to more active pastimes: walking; running; going to the gym; playing various sports; sailing, etc. the cost to pursue these can vary enormously, with sailing probably costing the most and walking the least. I'm not a sporty person but I do try to do some exercise and I enjoy walking. I use good quality walking boots which I expect to last for at least 10 years, that works out to a running cost of 40p/week.
I pay more than that to receive the Radio Times each week.
Sherwood
13-10-2016, 12:46
The particular web site which provided the calculations probably had a year on year value for inflation, and during the 1970s some years had very high inflation. That almost certainly explains why some of the values I quoted previously seemed so high.
My first job paid around £5-6 per week,if I remember correctly. Then I became a student, and after a while started working again. I think it was some time before I was making £10 per week, and despite grants etc. I did run into serious deficit problems for a while. Had a landlord, and used to delay paying the rent - sometimes for weeks, though mostly we got on well, and often went out drinking together. It took years to stabilise all this, though I do recall the weeks when I had actually earned and saved enough money to buy books at about £6 each - in the early 1970s.
Reading and book collecting used to be a good way to pass the time.
Sadly I can also remember from my earliest drinking days when beer was even under a shilling a pint - I think it was 11d for a pint of mild, and later in the 1970s - shock horror - petrol went up to over 3 shillings per gallon.
I think some students and young people these days are familiar with some of the stringencies of not having enough money, and mostly they don't have the luxury of a grant.
I agree that the relative numbers do seem scary - but also think that many things which we have now didn't even have a price in the 1970s or even 1980s. CD players, DVD players, High Def TVs, consumer video cameras, PVRs, microwave ovens, personal computers, and maybe you can think of a few more.
Dave,
I have never really got on with the cd format which from the start was both overhyped and hugely OVERPRICED. If I remember correctly, CDs were initially priced at around 15 quid (that is 1980s money remember). Far from perfect sound perfect forever, I ended up recording my early cds onto tape using my Sony Walkman Pro which seemed to tame the metallic hard edge a little. As an early adopter of the CD burner I found that that my compilation cds made for the car also sounded better than the original cd discs. I am guessing that this is something to do with error correction rather than equalisation. It is irritating to me today to have some unplayable cds in my collection that I bought to replace vinyl copies of the same disc. In most cases this appears to be attributable to oxidation as the most problematic discs display marked discoloration.
When I travel to the US I often drop into record stores which have large used cd sections. It probably says a lot about US culture but many people seem to sell on cds a relatively short time after purchasing. Indeed, I have bought used some used cds only a week or two after they were released. The fact that local sales taxes are much lower than vat is an added bonus as I have bought many discs for 10 dollars or sometimes much less. Most retailers also offer a refund or replacement guarantee making the purchase virtually riskless. The advantage these days is that I can check out the content on Spotify before buying although most US stores will offer some facility to listen to the disc prior to buying.
Geoff
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