Koetsu Black has landed to my living room

[selfaddict]

:) it arrived :)

I am so happy happy man now in this moment.

There is always huge risk buying second hand cartridges from e-bay, but this time I stroke gold. I bought this cartridge in a view that it needs full refurbishment, so I was prepared to spend up to £400 to get it as I wanted. BUT this beauty works like an angel and sounds like a dozen of them singing :trust:

When it arrived today, I opened the packet and fixed the cartridge to my Roksan Nima and adjusted and tweaked it with Hifi News Analogue Test Record and when I lowered the stylus to the LP groove, Tracy Chapman was on the room with me. :band:

Only problem I have at the moment is that the Roksan Nima is not really suitable for nearly 11g cartridge, so I cannot adjust the cartridge as far forward on the arm as I would need to get it right. I barely managed to get the tracking force to 1.9g by shifting the cartridge as close as possible towards the end.

What do I do now :doh:? Are there any heavier counter weights available for the Roksan Nima I could use??? Or do I need to start looking for another unipivot arm?

[Clive]

Wrap a small amount of sheet lead around the counter-weight.

[selfaddict]

Wrap a small amount of sheet lead around the counter-weight.

That is a very good idea, thank you.

I assume there is no harm for the arm by adding extra weight to the counter weight.

[Clive]

No harm, just experiment to find the right amount. You could use blu-tack instead, just find something suitable.

[Mike]

Blu-tac is great for this sort of thing...

[selfaddict]

Blu-tac is great for this sort of thing...

Blu-tac it will be then and if I want push it further I can stick piece of lead into the blu-tack :scratch:

[DSJR]

My manager of ancient times, took an LP12/Ittok home and forgot the counterweight. He found a suitably sized potato worked really well :D

[Mike]

My manager of ancient times, took an LP12/Ittok home and forgot the counterweight. He found a suitably sized potato worked really well :D

That would be the Kartoffel upgrade! ;)

[Clive]

2p pieces and blutack can be a good combo. Maybe a carrot or sprout as well?

Blutack is good as it damps the cw too.

[selfaddict]

2p pieces and blutack can be a good combo. Maybe a carrot or sprout as well?

Blutack is good as it damps the cw too.

Talking about damping. When I tested the cartridge-tonearm combo with the test record, the vertical resonance test shoved that the resonant frequency was higher than it really should be, that is above 15HZ. Would this explain why I am getting "needle jumps" from time to time? This was same with my AT-120e as well, but much more frequetly.

It says on the test record instructions:
If you seem to have resonant frequency higher than desired, try adjusting the damping of the arm.

Does this mean I need to buy/built isolation platform to isolate the my Funk Vector TT from the sidetable it is sitting, or is there a way to damp the tonearm separately? Sorry about the stupid questions, I just want to get the best from my system and learn at the same time :scratch:

[DSJR]

Ideally, the arm-cart resonance frequency should be around 8 - 10Hz. Any higher and the low bass will be severely affected as the bass will rise from as high as 30 - 40Hz and this is audible.

Ask Roksan if they do a heavier counterweight for the Nima. They just might be able to help you.

I wish my Black was fully functioning. I'll have to get it checked internally and hope a coil wire hasn't failed at the coils.........

If you can get a heavier counterweight sorted out, add mass to the headshell as well to increase overall inertia a bit..

I used to adjust the damping so that if the arm was "rocked" from side to side, it returned to rest very quickly, but didn't wobble uncontrollably like the ARO does.

The Funk deck is lightweight I think and I suggest it's coupled to a heavy-ish platform and then isolate the platform. If I have this wrong I apologise, but a butchers-block type of chopping board and a couple of squash-balls cut in half may be all you need...

[Mike Reed]

I don't wish to be alarmist, but 'needle jumps', if they mean what I think they mean, are not doing your vinyl any good at all.

As the owner of a Black, I do know it should be housed in a medium mass arm (SME, among others), and preferably played at 2 grammes, though 1.9 is close enough, I'd have thought.

MAYBE it's playing at too light a weight, causing jumping (on transients?) or your arm (which I know nothing about) is not up to that level of m/c cart.

MAYBE there's too much bias, as Koetsus like to see much less than usual. I set mine at 0.5 or so.

Having your deck on a side table(???) sounds bad, but this is probably my interpretation. Your deck should not be exposed to any external vibrations and should either be on a wall shelf or a purpose-made top shelf (spiked) of a hifi table (or rack), and preferably on a concrete rather than suspended floor.

I wonder if your new purchase is a Goldline Black, which came out about 4 or so years ago, or a previous incarnation which would date it a bit.

Anyway, I'm very happy with mine, and can't wait to climb up the Koetsu ladder. In other words, I'm hooked!

[selfaddict]

I need to get my arm-cart vertical resonance frequency down a lot from 20 Hz to get anyway near 10Hz. Horizontal resonance frequency was not too bad at 13 Hz.

You think that adding extra mass to the tonearm will do recuired damping, or did I get this wrong? I assume I need to add same amounts of weight to the headshell and to the counterweight, or does it matter?

I will phone to Roksan tomorrow and ask about the heavier counterweight, I might be lucky.

I think you are right about the need for heavy isolation platform. I have actually been waiting Funk Firms own isolation unit to come out of the factory, which should happen early next year. This isolation unit has dust cover as well, so we will se what it will cost when it is released.

[selfaddict]

I don't wish to be alarmist, but 'needle jumps', if they mean what I think they mean, are not doing your vinyl any good at all.

As the owner of a Black, I do know it should be housed in a medium mass arm (SME, among others), and preferably played at 2 grammes, though 1.9 is close enough, I'd have thought.

MAYBE it's playing at too light a weight, causing jumping (on transients?) or your arm (which I know nothing about) is not up to that level of m/c cart.

MAYBE there's too much bias, as Koetsus like to see much less than usual. I set mine at 0.5 or so.

Having your deck on a side table(???) sounds bad, but this is probably my interpretation. Your deck should not be exposed to any external vibrations and should either be on a wall shelf or a purpose-made top shelf (spiked) of a hifi table (or rack), and preferably on a concrete rather than suspended floor.

I wonder if your new purchase is a Goldline Black, which came out about 4 or so years ago, or a previous incarnation which would date it a bit.

Anyway, I'm very happy with mine, and can't wait to climb up the Koetsu ladder. In other words, I'm hooked!

This has been my main consern as well, I do not want to wreck my records or my new (second hand)cartridge. I just love the sound I have with my music that I cannot help playing the TT.

The "needle jumping" started after I replaced my DIY plastic washers under the VTA adjuster on my Roksan Nima with metal washer(solid metal VTA adjuster). My thinking/guessing is that the soft plastic washers isolated the resonance between the TT and the arm. I do not know if I need to put the washers back. They do not look as good as the metal one :rolleyes: The reason why I need to use these washers is that Nima is not tall enough othervice with Funk Vector.

The info about the bias adjustment is interesting. I will try this once I get the TT isolation sorted out.

I know that the furniture my TT is sitting is far from ideal, but 150 years ago the houses were not designed to have huge speakers and hifi in the front room :lol:

I have tried to find out which model my Black is. Only clue I have managed to find is the weight, mine is near 11g. I was told this is from the late 1980's when I bought it, but as allways I do not know it for sure. First black's were wooden body ones for my undesrtanding and mine is aluminium.

http://www.vinylengine.com/cartridge_database.php?m=Koetsu&t=mc&mod=black&Search=Search&sty=&ovlo=&ovhi=&can=&dclo=&dchi=&stid=&masslo=&masshi=&not=&prlo=&prhi=

I do not know if there are other models of Koetsu Black other that Goldline and "black"?

[hifi_dave]

What you need is more mass to get the resonant frequency down to the desired figure. Damping is a different matter, though a big blob of BluTak might help with damping.

You need more weight at the rear end to balance out the Koetsu and more mass at the headshell to lower the resonant frequency. Ideally, you could do with a more robust tonearm.

The original Koetsu was simply known as 'Koetsu', later this became a Rosewood and Red etc, etc. The Black was the least expensive in the range and there has been several variants of this model.

[selfaddict]

What you need is more mass to get the resonant frequency down to the desired figure. Damping is a different matter, though a big blob of BluTak might help with damping.

You need more weight at the rear end to balance out the Koetsu and more mass at the headshell to lower the resonant frequency. Ideally, you could do with a more robust tonearm.

The original Koetsu was simply known as 'Koetsu', later this became a Rosewood and Red etc, etc. The Black was the least expensive in the range and there has been several variants of this model.

This is something what I have been wondering myself as well. It would not do any harm to find more solid tonearm to get the best from my ever changing system. I am more than happy for my amplifier and my speakers, but the tonearm has become the "weak link" now unfortunately, especially after I bought the second hand Koetsu Black.

Any good suggestions for tonearm upgrade? I have read SME IV and V are very nice arms ,but never used or heard them myself.

[hifi_dave]

The SME arms are excellent and have the build and finish which makes fondling mandatory. An SME will never let you down and will be a joy for ever.:kiss:

I'm lurving these extra smilies.

[Marco]

I'm lurving these extra smilies.


Tee hee... You don't get those on pfm, do ya? :eyebrows:

Marco.

[twelvebears]

My manager of ancient times, took an LP12/Ittok home and forgot the counterweight. He found a suitably sized potato worked really well :D

The only problem I've found with vegetable counterweights is that over time they dry out, thus causing the tracking weight to increase. :)

[REM]

I think you are right about the need for heavy isolation platform. I have actually been waiting Funk Firms own isolation unit to come out of the factory, which should happen early next year. This isolation unit has dust cover as well, so we will se what it will cost when it is released.

IIRC talking briefly to the guy in the FF room at the recent Manchester show (not AK, he was otherwise engaged) the projected price is IRO £700/800, that would get you a very nice rack for all of your kit, side tables, especially wobbly ones, are not good for t/t's.

Cheers

[bigmoog]

The only problem I've found with vegetable counterweights is that over time they dry out, thus causing the tracking weight to increase. :)


there was a great comparison review in The Fl@t Response and reprinted in HifiR*vi*w....between a turnip counterweight for the Ittok and a Slice of King Edward Potato....I seem to remember the publisher preferred the turnip (foot tapping PRAT) and the editor preferred the spud (...just so much better than the SMEV...)



:eyebrows::ner:



me joking, of course

[The Grand Wazoo]

there was a great comparison review in The Fl@t Response and reprinted in HifiR*vi*w....between a turnip counterweight for the Ittok and a Slice of King Edward Potato....I seem to remember the publisher preferred the turnip (foot tapping PRAT) and the editor preferred the spud (...just so much better than the SMEV...)



:eyebrows::ner:



me joking, of course

I do seem to remember an actual review in that magazine which preferred a Linn Basik cartridge to a Koetsu Black.
..........ahem

[hifi_dave]

Well, that was Linn's official line at the time.:brickwall:

[The Grand Wazoo]

I owned a Basik once (by pure bad luck) & used it for about twenty minutes........
I'm on my third K Black though!

[hifi_dave]

The Basik cart wasn't that bad as a giveaway. I don't recall actually selling any.:bog:

[selfaddict]

I owned a Basik once (by pure bad luck) & used it for about twenty minutes........
I'm on my third K Black though!

Is there any way to determinate which model of Koetsu Black I bought?

Just having a break from building isolation platform from hardwood and squach balls(just need to buy the balls first).

It will be interesting to compare isolation units made of timber and from stone(next on the built list) :scratch:.

[selfaddict]

I don't wish to be alarmist, but 'needle jumps', if they mean what I think they mean, are not doing your vinyl any good at all.

As the owner of a Black, I do know it should be housed in a medium mass arm (SME, among others), and preferably played at 2 grammes, though 1.9 is close enough, I'd have thought.

MAYBE it's playing at too light a weight, causing jumping (on transients?) or your arm (which I know nothing about) is not up to that level of m/c cart.

MAYBE there's too much bias, as Koetsus like to see much less than usual. I set mine at 0.5 or so.

Having your deck on a side table(???) sounds bad, but this is probably my interpretation. Your deck should not be exposed to any external vibrations and should either be on a wall shelf or a purpose-made top shelf (spiked) of a hifi table (or rack), and preferably on a concrete rather than suspended floor.

I wonder if your new purchase is a Goldline Black, which came out about 4 or so years ago, or a previous incarnation which would date it a bit.

Anyway, I'm very happy with mine, and can't wait to climb up the Koetsu ladder. In other words, I'm hooked!

My mind has been made up. And it is time to upgrade my tonearm. I have desided to buy second hand SME IV, but first I need sell the Nima and built my DIY isolation unit :chainsaw:

[Mike Reed]

My mind has been made up. And it is time to upgrade my tonearm. I have desided to buy second hand SME IV, but first I need sell the Nima and built my DIY isolation unit :chainsaw:

I still know nothing of your Nima arm and Funk whatever deck, but an SME 5 (if you can afford it; there are a few currently advertised cheaply) or a 4 will suit the Black (and many other carts.) to a T.

Just make sure that (a) you can fit an SME to your deck (check the arm mount), and (b) that your deck is up to it. I'm sure others can advise on this.

The more recent Goldline Black is distinctive by its golden plate underneath, but previous Blacks were just that:- black. Might be worth checking out the stylus for wear.