Which NAS do you recommend for music

[Jerrykan]

Hi Guys, I'm really enjoying my music listening with the RPi and IQAudio DAC. However, I'm quickly realising copying and listening to files on a USB memory stick, via Volumio, has its lilmitations. I have been reading as many reviews as I can on NAS / Servers and ripping systems and my head is spinning. The fact a few of the reveiws don't mention music specifically, they just talk about media files, compounds the problem. Does anyone have some experience / recommendations as to which NAS to buy. I'm thinking of getting dbpoweramp as the CD ripping software, but again, I'm keen to hear about alternatives.

[DSJR]

For humour only :) - The ONLY NAS I'd suggest for music are Notts Analogue (Studio) turntables...

Apologies, I couldn't resist it. I do stream as well, but not as seriously as yourself. Good luck with the search :)

[Jerrykan]

:lol:

[struth]

I just use an hdd attached. Its well big enough for my needs.. Self powered ones are best imo. You can add music via samba share without having to remove it although its fairly slow.ok for a few at a time. I have all music on various hhds in case of an error too. Easy and practical.
Some like Marco use a nas enclosure.

As for ripping db foo ar jriver etc are all good..i usually use jriver now. Seems fine.

[skimminstones]

Just get any that run Plex or Logitech media server and use exact audio copy to rip them.

[Ali Tait]

Not the cheapest, but I've used a Drobo for several years. Can be picked up secondhand on the bay for decent money.

Beauty with these is that they automatically back up your files between the hard drives, so if you do lose a drive, no music is lost, and you can hot swap drives again with no loss of data.

Great bit of kit and just works, no need to faff about setting up RAID or similar.

[Jerrykan]

Thanks for the replies and suggestions gentlemen, as I want to get something I can use / rely on for the next 3 - 5 years I'm guessing a 4tb NAS is the thing to get. I have read that even this can give different SQ depending on the make. Anyone gone from a self powered USB HDD to a NAS and found better SQ / ease of use?

[DGP]

Hi Matthew - I opted for a QNAP TS-412 with just 2 3Tb Westerns to start - has worked a treat for the last 18months. Regular software updates solve the irregular hiccups. Choice of media servers. The big benefit of a NAS drive is I can put it well away from the system down an Ethernet link. I'd not enjoy the same tranquility with a HDD in the same room. Did a piece on my blog:
https://digitalprakel.wordpress.com/2016/06/03/nas-drive-and-backups/
as confessed it was Andrew Everard's idea - honest.

[Jerrykan]

Thanks David, I've read your blog and it really did resonate, burning CDs is very time consuming and I agree with wanting no extraneous noise from whirring hard drives. The QNAP servers seem popular - I may well order one in the next few days along with the Lacie drives. Much appreciated:)

[DGP]

Thanks David, I've read your blog and it really did resonate, burning CDs is very time consuming and I agree with wanting no extraneous noise from whirring hard drives. The QNAP servers seem popular - I may well order one in the next few days along with the Lacie drives. Much appreciated:)

Hi Matthew - let me know if you need help. And let us know here how you get on.

DGP

[Jerrykan]

I will do David and thanks as well for the offer of help. I've noticed a lot of this sounds very complicated and obtuse when you read about it but when you actually get stuck in and have a go it does become clearer. I will get stuck though and having some guidance will be much appreciated :-)

[Clive197]

Synology have a good reputation in audio circles with Western Digital Red drives.

My family just bought this NAS for my birthday to replace a 5yr old WD 2Tb NAS and I'm very pleased with it, easy to set up. I was recommended to use MinimServer which also works well for me.

[Floyddroid]

For humour only :) - The ONLY NAS I'd suggest for music are Notts Analogue (Studio) turntables...

Apologies, I couldn't resist it. I do stream as well, but not as seriously as yourself. Good luck with the search :)

I would have to agree. The best turntable i have ever used was my Hyperspace. I wish I had never sold it.

[bumpy]

Sorry to butt in, but how does a NAS benefit over a HDD in a separate room (and yes the fan noise is really a nuisance).

[Ali Tait]

More than one drive so files can be backed up.

Network attached so any files can be stored on there from any computer on your network.

[bumpy]

More than one drive so files can be backed up.

Network attached so any files can be stored on there from any computer on your network.

Thanks Ali. As you were.

[r100]

Synology have a good reputation in audio circles with Western Digital Red drives.

My family just bought this NAS for my birthday to replace a 5yr old WD 2Tb NAS and I'm very pleased with it, easy to set up. I was recommended to use MinimServer which also works well for me.

1+

I have been using a couple of Syno Network Attached Storage devices for the last 6 or so years without the slightest hiccup ... a two (or more) drive version can be configured to store data redundantly which makes it a nice backup system for all you computers on the network amongst a thousand other usages. But maybe a little bit of an overkill if you are only looking to store music. I which case, as mentioned previously, I would just hook up a USB drive to the Pi and take it from there.

[Ali Tait]

I wouldn't. I'd definitely want a system that backs up all the data as I'm buggered if I'd want to rip all my cd's again f it went south. Not only that, I also copy all onto a portable HD that I take away with me as extra security.

[DGP]

I'd second Clive's choice of Minim Server
DGP

[struth]

1+

I have been using a couple of Syno Network Attached Storage devices for the last 6 or so years without the slightest hiccup ... a two (or more) drive version can be configured to store data redundantly which makes it a nice backup system for all you computers on the network amongst a thousand other usages. But maybe a little bit of an overkill if you are only looking to store music. I which case, as mentioned previously, I would just hook up a USB drive to the Pi and take it from there.

I keep several copies of my music on different pcs and ex hdds. They are not always up to date but not far off. I dont add an awful lot so files can be shared and i use samba to send new files to the rpi,s hdd. Its pretty much the same idea as a nas, but for the poorer man lol

As for sonics, i doubt there are any differences and cant hear even my wd my book in operation

[dave2010]

More than one drive so files can be backed up.

Network attached so any files can be stored on there from any computer on your network.Depends on the NAS used.

I've just had a drive crash (probably my own fault - and only about £45 to replace) but it's a concern. I've tried some NAS devices in the past, but hopefully things have improved now. I had a couple of Buffalo units. The first one wasn't great, but I bought another. One was supposed to be capable of backing the other up, but in fact both then crashed. I think I can recover one of them, but haven't had time to bother. The other was replaced, and somewhere I've got a new one in a box.

I agree about ripping being a pain, and it's not a great idea to rip loads of stuff, then have a drive crash.

I'm trying to get all my music rips onto drives in some form of order, so that I can simply copy drives when/if I need to. In the worst case I've still got the CDs and DVDs, but don't want to have to do that again if I can avoid it.

I tried using an Apple Mac with Time Machine, but in fact it was the TM drive which I screwed up. Moral - don't use a portable drive with a laptop.
I've just ordered a larger desk top drive, and I won't connect to the computers unless both the drive and the computer are on a solid base. In the future, I'll probably move to SSD drives, but I'd like the price to come down. I did make a couple of small SSD based USB external units by buying standard SSDs and putting them into USB caddies, and they are obviously more robust than hard drives if they are likely to be moved around.

For small scale work, I just bought this Toshiba gadget, which works with USB drives and also USB memory sticks -
http://www.toshiba.co.uk/hard-drives/wireless-storage/store-wireless-adapter/ It was cheap - under £12, but has taken quite a while to figure out, and I've not finished yet. It works quite well with an iOS device, such as an iPad Pro - but you'd need to figure out a decent player to run on such an iOS tablet. For hi-res sources, an App, such as PlayerXtreme might be needed - and of course some method of getting the output to a decent DAC.

Apart from the NAS or storage issues, how are people playing their music? Streaming, or downloading, then playing back from a dedicated music machine? Some might be using new models of streamers, and perhaps so-called hi-res downloads.

I tend to use Apple Macs but so far haven't gone for anything above 48 kHz 24 bits as source material - apart from one or two test experiments. The requirements become tougher if the best is to be obtained from (say) 192 kHz 24 bits, or DSD rips - and ethernet LANs aren't always very helpful - though they do seem to be getting better these days. In fact I've almost gone full circle, and I do now play CDs more frequently than I did a few years ago, when I had a major effort to rip 1000s of CDs.

[Ali Tait]

Hence why I recommended a Drobo. Takes four or more drives depending on the model, backs up automatically and nothing is lost if a drive goes down, just replace and carry on.

I play through an NVA TFS, though it's mostly films these days, as most of my music listening is vinyl or RTR.

[dave2010]

Hence why I recommended a Drobo. Takes four or more drives depending on the model, backs up automatically and nothing is lost if a drive goes down, just replace and carry on.

I play through an NVA TFS, though it's mostly films these days, as most of my music listening is vinyl or RTR.I agree, up to a point. A lot depends on how much money you have to spend, and how risk averse you are. There's always going to be something you can't cover, such as your Drobo unit failing, or being stolen, and you probably need to have some off site storage as well if you're really going to secure everything - or at least try to. I am currently really seriously considering this as a problem for my own files and data, and I'm investing in (for me) a serious number of drives. I think that serious professional outfits would do even more, but most of us mere consumers just have to give up at some point, and take a chance.

Some of the RAID units used by film and other companies are really serious - and this might just be at the low end - http://betanews.com/2016/04/18/lacie-12big-thunderbolt-3-12-bay-desktop-raid-unit-up-to-96tb-capacity/

PS: As I recall, and it is perhaps almost inevitable, RAIDs don't always use standard disk formats, though the drives themselves may be standard. This is not necessarily a problem, but it is something else that potential users need to be aware of. They may end up looking like standard drives to the computers or network, but the individual drives used in the RAID may not be readable except in another similar RAID unit. This is just something else to consider. Also, commercial systems may use hot swappable drives, but that might be overkill for consumer use - even by enthusiasts.

??NVA TFS?? see here - http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?16234-NVA-TFS-The-Future-Statement-lands-at-Marco-Towers impressive stuff.

???RTR??? What???

[Ali Tait]

:-) reel to reel.

Agree about backups, I keep a portable HD in my work laptop bag with my music collection on it, just in case something happens to the Drobo.

Also agree about proprietary systems, the Drobo is one such, which you could say is a drawback. I could just buy another though if mine breaks, plenty usually for sale on the bay.

What I do like though is the automatic backup - no faffing or input needed, does it all itself.

[Mark Grant]

Synology have a good reputation in audio circles with Western Digital Red drives.


+2 for Synology, they are excellent.

What I like about Synology is that the DSM operating system gets better each year, there is often an auto update that works well to make things more slick or add more features.

The 216j is ideal as an entry level for streaming music.

The + series such as a 216+ are faster but not really needed unless storing video or lots of photos etc.

[dave2010]

Ali - re msg 24.

It was a portable drive which I seem to have bricked, so take care. I have wondered about replacing it with either one of these
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Transcend-Military-Grade-Shock-Resistance-Portable/dp/B005MNGQ6C,
or one of these
https://www.amazon.co.uk/LaCie-Rugged-Portable-External-Drive/dp/B0058VIWTM/ref=sr_1_1?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1475616308&sr=1-1&keywords=lacie+rugged, or else simply being more careful in future.

Do take care with your own portable drive.

Clive and Mark

Interesting to read about the Synology systems - I'll look into those further. However, unless I get further into video, I doubt that I'm going to have a need for a very elaborate system. Probably a 4 or 6 drive RAID system would be good enough for me. Serious video editing houses use massive arrays of drives - and possibly most of them are SSDs - for speed. I did get into video a bit earlier on, and it was a bit of a slow process until I figured out that I could use proxy video files, thus avoiding/reducing the need/desire to go out and buy a much faster machine and associated file storage. The proxy files do take a while to set up, but that can be done in the background, or overnight.

Here we are "only" talking about audio, so although we like things to work well, most systems are fast enough.

[StanleyB]

I have tried both SSD and mecanical drives in a NAS. Spare yourself the cost of the SSD. The network speed is a limiting factor.
If you use a NAS, try to use a separate USB drive to back up the contents of the NAS. I have a mate who just had his 4TB drive trashed and with no back up of anything.

[dave2010]

I have tried both SSD and mecanical drives in a NAS. Spare yourself the cost of the SSD. The network speed is a limiting factor.
If you use a NAS, try to use a separate USB drive to back up the contents of the NAS. I have a mate who just had his 4TB drive trashed and with no back up of anything.I agree about the costs of SSDs at present. Also I echo the points about backing up - very important unless one really wants to lose a lot of data, or have to do masses of work (e.g ripping) again.

However, if the volume of data is small enough, which would depend on the amount of music to be stored, and which formats etc., then for portable use it might still make sense to put an SSD in a caddy and use that. I have done that with a couple of SSDs - one Sandisk, and one from Crucial, and I have also recently bricked a portable 1 TB drive by bumping it. For large volumes of data stored on disc drives make sure the drive system is secure and stable to minimise possible damage.

SSDs should become cheaper over time, so that in a few years for modest to medium storage they will be preferred, but for the time being large volumes are still significantly cheaper using hard drives then SSDs. Bsesides being more robust, SSDs can be significantly faster, depending on the interfaces used, though for audio work this isn't such a big deal. For video the extra speed can be a big bonus, particularly for editing.

[bumpy]

Hence why I recommended a Drobo. Takes four or more drives depending on the model, backs up automatically and nothing is lost if a drive goes down, just replace and carry on.

I play through an NVA TFS, though it's mostly films these days, as most of my music listening is vinyl or RTR.

With the Drobo do you have to buy Drobo hard drives or is it a universal fitting which takes any internal (SATA?) drive?

[dave2010]

With the Drobo do you have to buy Drobo hard drives or is it a universal fitting which takes any internal (SATA?) drive?
You can look at the Drobo site. See - http://www.drobo.com/storage-products/choose-drive/

I think the smaller unit takes 2.5 inch drives (including SSDs) while the larger units take 3.5 inch drives. According to the advertising and the on site video (go to "How it Works") you can mix and max drives, but physically it looks as though they have to be either one size or the other.

[Ali Tait]

Standard hard drives. Mine came with 500gig WD Greens, which I replaced last year with 4TB Reds, so have 16TB. Should keep me going for a bit. :-)

[bumpy]

Standard hard drives. Mine came with 500gig WD Greens, which I replaced last year with 4TB Reds, so have 16TB. Should keep me going for a bit. :-)

Wow :)

[Ali Tait]

Got them for a good price, and I store a lot of films. :-)

[StanleyB]

Got them for a good price, and I store a lot of films. :-)
For research purposes, or private entertainment :eyebrows:?

[Ali Tait]

LOL, family entertainment usually..

[dave2010]

Standard hard drives. Mine came with 500gig WD Greens, which I replaced last year with 4TB Reds, so have 16TB. Should keep me going for a bit. :-)Surely you only have 16 TB if you don't operate in one of the redundancy modes. If you are operating in one of the more resilient modes you must effectively have less than 16 TB.

[Ali Tait]

Yes, but how much storage do you want? :-)

[The Black Adder]

So, if a unit is 8TB does that mean it has usable storage of 4TB? That is, do they mirror backup the drives like Raid or is the backup storage compressed to allow a bit more usable storage?

[dave2010]

Yes, but how much storage do you want? :-)Thinking about my own storage, I probably have around 16 TBytes (I've not checked, but a 3 TB, several 2 TBs, and a significant number of 1 TB drives plus the storage on several machines. Realistically the total storage i really "need" or want, is ahout 4-5 TB, but that would expose the data to risks such as drive crashes etc., plus also it's useful to have spare capacity for projects which require temporary file storage. Video editing is a serious contender for this, by a long way - though I don't do that very often. It's also useful to have spare capacity to make volume reorganisation simpler.

Re black adder's question, storage systems can use different levels of redundancy, possibly implemented in different ways. The simplest is double redundancy, though that's might not be good for real time work, as in the case of a failure it may be hard to work out which is the good data. Triple redundancy is really the minimum for real time, safety critical, work. However, that's overkill for audio and video processing.

By using different "clever" techniques, a storage system, such as a RAID/NAS with say X units of storage, may be able to provide alpha X storage units, where alpha is a factor less than 1, but probably greater than 0.5, and be able to resist several different failures. Thus a 20 Tbyte storage device based on (say) 5 x 4 Tbyte drives, might be able to offer 12 Tbytes of available space (alpha=0.6), with the ability to survive two complete drive failures.

Obviously if a hard fault on an indivual drive occurs, and is detected, then assuming any form of repair is impossible (highly likely!), the drive must be replaced as soon as is realistically feasible. In the example case, a single failure would reduce the available storage to 16 Tbytes while the damaged drive is taken out, and for a while the available storage with the same degree of resilience would be unavailable, until a new drive is put in, and the data would then be redistributed among the drives.

If SSDs are used, then the storage available may be reduced in each SSD unit over time, but the SSD drive itself will continue to function.

Design of such storage systems depends on the values of alpha chosen, which are related to the degree of resilience against failures required. Users have to decide how risk averse they are, and what level of backup protection they might need. There's not much point in having a very robust storage system in just one place, for example, as that could be susceptible to damage or theft, and continuous operation might not be possible if there's a power failure, even if no data is lost during an outage.

However, speed of operation is also a factor in the design of such systems. For consumer level audio work, this might be very serious overkill, but for tasks such as video editing and CGI in commercial work it may be very important, in addition to the need to ensure continuity of service.

[Jerrykan]

I've been reading all the posts and many thanks to all who've posted suggestions and comments. I've ordered / had delivered a QNAP HS251+ with 2 x 3tb harddrives already installed. I got it from Ripcaster who seemed very helpful and reasonably priced. I've loaded Roon on to my macbook and copied a load of files over to the QNAP. Whilst I haven't yet set up the RPi for Roon it is great seeing all the tracks listed as per the CD along with the artwork ( on Roon ). I hope to have it all connected up tomorrow and I'll report back.

[dave2010]

I've been reading all the posts and many thanks to all who've posted suggestions and comments. I've ordered / had delivered a QNAP HS251+ with 2 x 3tb harddrives already installed. I got it from Ripcaster who seemed very helpful and reasonably priced. I've loaded Roon on to my macbook and copied a load of files over to the QNAP. Whilst I haven't yet set up the RPi for Roon it is great seeing all the tracks listed as per the CD along with the artwork ( on Roon ). I hope to have it all connected up tomorrow and I'll report back.I hadn't heard of that model, until I read your post. I hope it works well for you.

I hadn't heard of Roon before either - http://www.techhive.com/article/2923915/home-audio/roon-is-must-have-software-for-hardcore-music-fans.html - and this article also points out a deficiency of Apple's Airplay



AirPlay isn’t the best multi-room audio system I’ve tested. Everything gets converted to Apple Lossless, which is fine unless your source material is encoded at a higher resolution or sampling rate. Stream a 24-bit/96kHz FLAC file for instance, and AirPlay will down-convert it to 16-bit/44.1kHz Apple Lossless. That particular sampling-rate conversion is especially problematic: Because 96 is not an even multiple of 44.1, the down-conversion can introduce all sorts of quality issues.


I was starting to get interested in the NAS units with more drives - 4, 5 or 6. Over the last decade or more I've probably spent the best part of £1k buying storage devices. However, like everything else, NAS devices are probably going to evolve, and maybe improve, and possibly get cheaper, so does it make sense to put a lot of money into a unit which might not look so great in 5 years time? Not sure. Will we still have disc drives, or their replacement SSDs? Will something else come along? If so, what?

Would it make sense to spend (say) up to £1k now for a NAS, plus some drives, rather than an ad hoc collection of external devices over the next decade? Who knows!

The one factor I noted from the Drobo site was the difference between the unit which takes 2.5 inch drives versus the units which take 3 .5 inch drives. As technology continues to make things smaller, does it make more sense to go for units which cope with smaller physical units anyway? OTOH. it may be that as SSDs become more popular and cheaper, that they will fit into smaller enclosures. Could something like a 1 inch square SSD be feasible and standard in a few years time, and if so what would a NAS based on those be like?

Would there still be a need for legacy units, capable of working with 2.5 inch or even 3.5 inch drives, and will any manufacturer produce models which could mix most of the drive types (with both different physical and electrical/logical characteristics) from the last decade or so?

I'm speculating here, though it's probably not worse than worrying about the human evolution from the point of view of god like apes coming in on comets from outer space, which makes odd reading, and keeps some around here amused.

[Ali Tait]

Drives have been standard sizes for quite some time now, can't see this going away anytime soon.

[WAD62]

Drives have been standard sizes for quite some time now, can't see this going away anytime soon.
Given that Google's vast cloud storage capability is ultimately implemented on old 3.5" drives I'd tend to agree with Ali...:)

I run an old QNAP TS-119, which I've just upgraded to 2TB, running LMS for 4 clients, with about 850GB of FLAC...so I've a few more years left for 'Red Book'

The 2TB WD Red NAS drives were only £60 each, so for the server and a RAID (Q-RAID) backup that's only £120...local storage has never been so affordable, I can't see how 'Cloud' (or managed) storage can be seen as a viable alternative for music file storage.

I've had 1 drive failure in 7 years, and was back up and running inside 10 mins...the best D/R I've ever done ;)

[struth]

The sshd,s ive got (2.5") fitted to laptops are worth getting. They are quick yet affordable, with about 8gb of ss storage ram and a 1/2 tb drive were bought for under £20 2nd hand but basically new. A bank of those would be a great option for us cheapskates

[Mark Grant]

I've been reading all the posts and many thanks to all who've posted suggestions and comments. I've ordered / had delivered a QNAP HS251+ with 2 x 3tb harddrives already installed. I got it from Ripcaster who seemed very helpful and reasonably priced. I've loaded Roon on to my macbook and copied a load of files over to the QNAP. Whilst I haven't yet set up the RPi for Roon it is great seeing all the tracks listed as per the CD along with the artwork ( on Roon ). I hope to have it all connected up tomorrow and I'll report back.

That's looks great.

GC5-s1ILy0A
https://youtu.be/GC5-s1ILy0A

https://www.qnap.com/de-de/product/model.php?II=197

If you are putting anything important on it don't forget a UPS to help protect it, these are ideal for a NAS:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/APC-Back-UPS-400-Uninterruptible-protected/dp/B002RX6NY0/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1475866488&sr=8-2&keywords=ups%2Bbackup&th=1
-

https://www.amazon.co.uk/APC-Back-UPS-400-Uninterruptible-protected/dp/B002RXED6A/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1475866488&sr=8-2&keywords=ups%2Bbackup&th=1

I will stick with Synology NAS as I know the DSM operating system so well now.

[WAD62]

I've been reading all the posts and many thanks to all who've posted suggestions and comments. I've ordered / had delivered a QNAP HS251+ with 2 x 3tb harddrives already installed. I got it from Ripcaster who seemed very helpful and reasonably priced. I've loaded Roon on to my macbook and copied a load of files over to the QNAP. Whilst I haven't yet set up the RPi for Roon it is great seeing all the tracks listed as per the CD along with the artwork ( on Roon ). I hope to have it all connected up tomorrow and I'll report back.

...oops missed your post!

Looks good...

I got my old QNAP TS-119 from ripcaster back in 2009, good to see they're still going strong, as you say very helpful...

Nice to see that QNAP have another fanless NAS, I think the TS-119 was the last one they did, prior to this one.

One thing to note, the new WD red NAS drives are much quieter than the previous WD Greens I'd been using, I can barely hear any HD noise, although given the NAS is on the landing it doesn't really make much difference...;)

[AlfaGTV]

With that QNAP (The HS 251), i'd definently look into installing the Roonserver QNAP package on it. Just add a 8-16Gb SSD based USB3.0 adapter into one of the USB3.0 ports and put the Roon library there!
You'll have an instant-on system that consumes less that 15W when using Pi-endpoints, but still sounds like some stratospherically priced streamers!
You would benefit from upgrading the RAM though, even if i Think it would work just fine with the std 2Gb

[dave2010]

Given that Google's vast cloud storage capability is ultimately implemented on old 3.5" drives I'd tend to agree with Ali...:)

Yes, but some of the storage centers (sic) are deliberately constructed using older and cheaper technology. Nowadays energy consumption is a big issue for some of the massive storage data centres, and there could very well be changes in what is used. I think for performance reasons SSDs or similar are going to become much more mainstream in data centres.

For domestic use, why use 3.5 inch drives if 2.5 inch ones will do as well? Why use 2.5 inch drives if 1 inch cubes (or similar) will eventually outperform them?

[Ali Tait]

Yep, but the hardware needs to be produced and people need to buy it. Not saying it won't happen, but it will take a good few years I'd have thought.

[dave2010]

Yep, but the hardware needs to be produced and people need to buy it. Not saying it won't happen, but it will take a good few years I'd have thought.It may be happening, but we don't see it as consumers. When was the last time you went to buy an industrial robot? :)

If anything "consumer worthy" happens, I expect it'll appear eventually, when someone or some organisation wants to make money out of us.

[WAD62]

Yes, but some of the storage centers (sic) are deliberately constructed using older and cheaper technology. Nowadays energy consumption is a big issue for some of the massive storage data centres, and there could very well be changes in what is used. I think for performance reasons SSDs or similar are going to become much more mainstream in data centres.

For domestic use, why use 3.5 inch drives if 2.5 inch ones will do as well? Why use 2.5 inch drives if 1 inch cubes (or similar) will eventually outperform them?

Economy, compatibility, reliability, and current availability...that's enough 'y's' for now...IMHO ;)

[dave2010]

Economy, compatibility, reliability, and current availability...that's enough 'y's' for now...IMHO ;)Yep, but I've just taken some old 3.5 inch drives out of computers which have gone to the dump. I don't want a whole house full of things like that. I think the cost of neater kit is going to come down quite fast, so in a few years 3.5 inch drives will have bitten the dust, just like Betamax and MiniDisc (both of which I still have .... ouch!) and Windows XP PCs. Most sane people will go with the newer, neater and more compact stuff.

[Ali Tait]

It may be happening, but we don't see it as consumers. When was the last time you went to buy an industrial robot? :)

If anything "consumer worthy" happens, I expect it'll appear eventually, when someone or some organisation wants to make money out of us.

I was talking about consumer stuff, in reply to your earlier remark. I agree something more compact will come along, however I don't think it will be for quite some time given the amount of conventional HD drives and hardware already in use.

[struth]

Dont see need to make it any smaller.. just needs to be cheaper and more reliable, especially with ssd,s. They dont ladt as long as they should

[Ali Tait]

Well there's a new storage tech- SSD. What did they do?

Stuck it in standard HD cases.

[dave2010]

Well there's a new storage tech- SSD. What did they do?

Stuck it in standard HD cases.Yes, but it doesn't have to be 3.5 inch. I have some slimline cases with 2.5 inch SSDs. They were easy to set up.
I'm sure things could go smaller.

The reason "they" would have done the cases is because they already had them. In the future things will be different.

Your argument is in favour of cylinder recordings I suppose. OK - I'd better not mention vinyl, but sometimes new things are better, better made, better designed, better suited to the people who may use them etc. Things will move on.

[Ali Tait]

I've already said I don't disagree, just it will take quite some time to happen.

[Jerrykan]

With that QNAP (The HS 251), i'd definently look into installing the Roonserver QNAP package on it. Just add a 8-16Gb SSD based USB3.0 adapter into one of the USB3.0 ports and put the Roon library there!
You'll have an instant-on system that consumes less that 15W when using Pi-endpoints, but still sounds like some stratospherically priced streamers!
You would benefit from upgrading the RAM though, even if i Think it would work just fine with the std 2Gb

Thanks Mike, I'll have a go at this and get back to you on how I progressed :-)

[Mark Grant]

Well there's a new storage tech- SSD. What did they do?

Stuck it in standard HD cases.

Dont forget abut mSATA SSD https://www.amazon.co.uk/Crucial-CT250MX200SSD3-MX200-mSATA-Internal/dp/B00RQA6LFA/ref=pd_lpo_147_lp_t_3?ie=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=B177YQ6M7BQMFYGMB6AP only about 2 inches (50mm) by 1.2 inches (30mmmm) and less than 1mm thick.

M2 SSD https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M.2

http://www.snia.org/forums/sssi/knowledge/formfactors

microSSD are mentioned, that does look small, never seen one though.

Not really much use for NAS as too expensive and not large enough capacity yet.

Nothing wrong with a NAS box full of low cost spinning disc for NAS storage for many years yet :)

[WAD62]

Nothing wrong with a NAS box full of low cost spinning disc for NAS storage for many years yet :)

Indeed Mark...

Here's my monstrous old legacy 3.5" 2TB QNAP music server(LMS), and NAS...barely fills a hole behind the plant pot! ;)

Happily runs 5 SBclients (2 PiDACs, 1 Touch, an SB3, and a Boom), with a 3k album FLAC collection...already been going for 7 years :)

[Mark Grant]

Hopefully the hard drive has been replaced in the 7 years :)

[AlfaGTV]

Indeed Mark...

Here's my monstrous old legacy 3.5" 2TB QNAP music server(LMS), and NAS...barely fills a hole behind the plant pot! ;)

Happily runs 5 SBclients (2 PiDACs, 1 Touch, an SB3, and a Boom), with a 3k album FLAC collection...already been going for 7 years :)

Oh, i have had two of those! One TS-109 and one TS-119! :)
The latter one just went to my friend who uses it as a SlimServer for a library of around 70.000tracks! Works flawlessly with a 4TB WD Green

[WAD62]

Hopefully the hard drive has been replaced in the 7 years :)

Indeed it has Mark, once planned, once otherwise...:eek:

I bought it with a 1Tb WD Green, about £150 a pop at the time, that failed about 2 years ago.

I keep a RAID backup (via Q-RAID, a batch RAID equivalent), so swapped the drives and was back up and running in 10 mins, which is well within my personal D/R SLA ;)

Using the same technique I've just upgraded to 2TB (WD Red NAS), extremely quiet, cheap at £65 each, and I'm back below 50% utilisation again...should be good for another 7 years, fingers crossed! :)

13W running, 5W sleeping, and 0W on the nightly power down...

[WAD62]

Oh, i have had two of those! One TS-109 and one TS-119! :)
The latter one just went to my friend who uses it as a SlimServer for a library of around 70.000tracks! Works flawlessly with a 4TB WD Green

As you say they're great for LMS/SlimServer, but given you're a Roon user I can see why you moved on...;)

[Mark Grant]

I want a storage pod 6.0
https://www.backblaze.com/blog/open-source-data-storage-server/

My offsite cloud backups are on a Backblaze storage pod, it's not mine though :)

[WAD62]

I want a storage pod 6.0
https://www.backblaze.com/blog/open-source-data-storage-server/

My offsite cloud backups are on a Backblaze storage pod, it's not mine though :)

What do you 'back up' on that Mark...the entire 'Internet'??? :eyebrows:

[Mark Grant]

I just back up laptops and PC's with backblaze on each machine, it is low cost and works perfectly.
https://www.backblaze.com/cloud-backup.html

Also some of the folders on my NAS are backed with with Backblaze B2 cloud storage with an app installed on the synology. Again low cost as the monthly data charges are low.
https://www.backblaze.com/b2/cloud-storage.html

Backblaze have a very tidy data centre and my data is in there somewhere along with many thousands of other peoples data :)
https://www.backblaze.com/blog/day-life-datacenter-part/

[dave2010]

I've been following this thread for a while.

1. Are the configurations purely for music distribution, or are some people using mixed data types?

2. Are they mostly wired, using ethernet?

3. Are some also wireless - e.g wifi?

4. Are there any other interface modes? For example some Apples could use Thunderbolt, which should be capable of transfer rates an order of magnitude faster than some ethernet modes.

[Mark Grant]

for me it is:
1. mixed content, music, photos, videos from cameras and also word documents etc.
2. Wired
3. some have wifi but always best with a network cable as more reliable and Ethernet is faster then wifi.
4. Not sure about thunderbolt as I don't have anything apple. A NAS is usually connected to your router or a network switch on your network so it can be shared to all your network so adding files is easy and anything can be shared easily.

[AlfaGTV]

1. I use my NAS as a central storage unit, also for the familys pictures and documents, besides distributing music and movies to my endpoints.

2. The local backbone is wired for best performance, but actually i have very good performance running wireless endpoints too, even bluray rips are displayed perfectly onto the Samsung TV via WLAN.
The Macmini

3. See above

4. For me, no, ethernet for the files when in file-state, and mostly USB when converted into an audio stream. (A couple of the Raspberry Pi's deliver SPDIF too, via Hifiberry Digi+ and Digi+ Pro)

I use my QNAP as Roon Server as well as Twonky UPnP for my Embla. JRiver just pulls files from its SMB shares when i use that.
I recently bought a used QNAP TS-470 Pro and set it up to use RAID0 over three 2Tb disks and then an SSD drive for the Roon library.
Works very well!

[stree]

I have a D-Link 320L, very budget and basic, but suits me fine. Music is on C drive and D drive,and on another PC too, then copied to NAS (Z drive) artwork is courtesy Album Artwork Finder............... Only issue I find is 320L does not recognise M4a files, so convert to MP3 with a little converter prog. From PC to RPi and then to T-amp, also bluetoothed to kitchen speakers via CD player with BT receiver.........( CD player is a car headunit mounted in kitchen wall, works a treat, and works independently of NAS/BT with wired spkrs if needed) Using 2TB Toshiba HDD in NAS, Had a 1TB WD Green, but that died after a few years, always had WD drives die on me, never any other make, just WD.... Tosh is much more responsive drive, so happy.....May get another and do a simple raid.......but backed upon PC twice anyway, and its just a straight copy over...........Just getting back into it after a period of, well just not being up to doing anything much at all..............