Let this be a warning to you all

[Paul-H]

Hi all

Take note of the following and be prepared

Most of us us are at that age were we will soon be facing either our parents or even our own mortality, double check all your documents if you are.

My wife's mother passed away recently in a care home, she had no house as in the UK that has to be sold to pay for her care home fees. We had her will appointing us as executors and that will split her wealth 50/50 between my wife and her brother who lives in Spain. We applied and was granted probate so was able to get access to the remainder of her money held by her bank ready the split it with the wife's brother. The suddenly out of the of the blue a letter arrived from a firm of solicitors who produced a newer will giving everything to her next door neighbour who she hated. They have some how managed to get her solicitor to change the will.

At the time the will was changed she was 92, profoundly deaf, almost blind and suffering from severe Dementia, and obviously in no fit state to change her will.

We have been advised by our solicitor that the is nothing we can do as a solicitor was involved and they are always above reproch.

In the time we had the money and thinking it was ours we paid off our mortgage and all our debts, so now not only have we got to pay it to these con artists but also lose our house to pay for the shortfall.

Anyone been through this in the UK, did you manage to win, who was your solicitor as I feel mine is just wrong, in saying the new will trumps the old and there is nothing we can do about it because it was prepared by a solicitor and the same one that did the first.

What was that solicitor thinking not even questioning when an elderly client suddenly want to change a will that gives everything to her own children and give it all to the none English family living next door, why did no alarm bells ring, why did she not even give us a call, just to check she was was not being duped or tricked in to this change, which she was.

Check all you documents if you are about to go through a family bereavement yourself, someone might be planning a surprise for you.

Paul

[Firebottle]

Terrible situation. I would guess your mother was non compos mentis at the time of the second will.

Take advice from the citizens advice bureau first, they have probably advised on similar situations. Good luck.

[theabbot]

If your mother-in-law had dementia and has been official diagnosed as such I expect that she has been declared not to have "Mental Capacity" If this is the case then she is not deemed to be able to sign or authorize any legal documents. You need to get her medical/mental records, did anyone have "power of attorney" just some thoughts you could think about. Best of luck.

Mike

[Macca]

Get a brief who knows what he is talking about, (not the CAB) don't sell anything, don't pay out a penny. It is a civil matter, you can't go to prison. If you point blank refuse to pay they will have one hell of a tme getting it off you. Wills get challenged and overturned all the time and it sounds like you have a good case.

[jandl100]

Get a brief who knows what he is talking about, (not the CAB) don't sell anything, don't pay out a penny. It is a civil matter, you can't go to prison. If you point blank refuse to pay they will have one hell of a tme getting it off you. Wills get challenged and overturned all the time and it sounds like you have a good case.

+1

Phone round and find a solicitor of good repute who is willing to take it on.
Don't give up.
Good luck.

[struth]

I would listen to Martin on this. These things can be rechallenged. As for solicitors being above reproach... thats tosh. No one is automatically above reproach when it comes to cash. If she had dementia then fight it

[Puffin]

The Law is an Ass?

Wills are valid even if they are made when people are suffering from memory loss due to dementia, a judge ruled today.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/10087754/Wills-are-valid-even-when-made-by-people-with-dementia.html

[newton]

A diagnosis of dementia doesn't necessarily mean that someone can't make a will. It depends whether they have 'testamentary capacity'. This is the legal capacity to make or change their will. The solicitor will make a decision about this, often after taking medical advice. seems mad to me but

[Paul-H]

Thanks for the replies, we have documentation showing she was diagnosed with dementia in 2012 and this new will was written in 2014.

We have sacked our current solicitor and now in the process of finding one with a record of success in these matters which our one obviously had not.

Anyone recommend a none London based firm with experience in this, don't fancy London Solicitors fees at £500 an hour.

Mind you we are talking a quarter of a million pounds so I could afford it if I won but not if we lost is all.

Thanks martin for the tip about it being a Civil Matter, perhaps I should just open an offshore account and hide it all for the next couple of years, until they find another old person to move next too, which I think they already have, as they are now renting out the house next door to the MI.

Paul

[Ninanina]

Paul I am glad you have sacked your current solicitor

You can definitely contest the will even though you have a letter from a solicitor

I think the grounds for the will in question not being 'Valid' could fall into these areas: (1) The person making the will having a 'Lack of Mental Capacity' (2) 'Lack of Knowledge/Approval of the Terms of the Will' due to them being blind, deaf or illiterate (3) The person making the will was subjected to 'Undue Influence' where the person was pressured by another into making, or changing the will

I have been looking into this for someone who wishes to contest a will so have read loads about it

Don't give up as from what I have read you have a very good case to have this will deemed 'Invalid'

A lot of solicitors now work on a 'no win no fee' basis so that might be worth looking into

[Barry]

Shocking news Paul - good luck with your pursuit in this matter.

[dave2010]

This is an appalling story, though I have heard of similar ones. In this case it would certainly appear that the solicitors may have been negligent, but trying to get (say) the Law Society to check it out might be problematic. Legal people don't seem to want to chase others "of their own kind".

Some of the consumer groups, such as Trading Standards and CAB are in theory useful, but often a chocolate teapot is better these days. At least you can eat the chocolate.

I'd say try your MP, and take things as high as you can, even up to the PM if need be.

I'm not fond of too many legal people, and not solicitors, who seem often incompetent, and may go through the motions of providing a service, but really just feathering their own nests at their clients expense. Having said that, there are some good ones, but how to find them .....

Hang in there, and ... nil carborundum etc.

[struth]

If a soliciter released the money after probate, tbh it should be up to his insurance to cough up if found wanting. If he waited the appropriate time and other will wasnt submitted, then i would think it would be null and void

[Spectral Morn]

Surely if the neighbours conned this lady into creating a new will in order to defraud the rightful inheritors is that not a crime, should the police not be involved ?

Terrible situation. I hope you get it resolved.

[Oddball]

Its a difficult area . If neighbours come in to help , or just get friendly (with what are lonely lonely people in lots of cases )then odd things can happen , especially if they are very frail of mind!
My friend has an uncle who is mid 90's and has had a lady in her fifties who has looked after him for 8 or more yrs . He has apparently left the house and money to her , despite her leaving him with very little food for 2 -3 weeks while she spent time in Benedorm or where ever the lowlife shytebags go for holidays !! My mate was alerted by another neighbour who was new to the area , that went to talk to him ,and was invited ino the house. he was shocked by the damp and general lack of cleaning ! he noticed the old boy had only a mattress to lie on ,so went to Dunelm and purchased a quilt and cover for him.
2 weeks later he saw it had gone !! She must have had it away!!
Very little they can do ,but they do believe the old boy has early dementia too, and they have alerted the police.
Good luck with your case

[dave2010]

Allegedly some "carers" seem to be repeated inheritors. I heard of one who'd managed to gain control of a house after its owner died, presumably having "looked after" the occupant for years. I went into that house before the resident's demise. It was filthy, and I picked up fleas which took days to kill off.

Some while later I heard that the "carer" had not only done this once, but three times - though this is, only hearsay, so not confirmed. I don't think the police care about this sort of thing much. Reporting any problems doesn't do much good either while the old people are alive, because most of the social services say that they can only act if close relatives are involved, so close neighbours who may be concerned are unable to put any form of useful alert on to the radar of relevant "authorities".

[Macca]

Surely if the neighbours conned this lady into creating a new will in order to defraud the rightful inheritors is that not a crime, should the police not be involved ?

.

No, as it is a civil matter, the cops won't touch it with a bargepole. Coercing someone to change their will is not fraud, and there is no such thing as a 'rightful inheritor' unless specified in the will. Even if the will was judged to be invalid there would still be no criminal charges to answer. Unless the will was a complete forgery, of course.

[dave2010]

No, as it is a civil matter, the cops won't touch it with a bargepole. Coercing someone to change their will is not fraud, and there is no such thing as a 'rightful inheritor' unless specified in the will. Even if the will was judged to be invalid there would still be no criminal charges to answer. Unless the will was a complete forgery, of course.
Coercion might be a criminal offence, but probably only if done in a brutal way. Persuasion would not count. Violence, threats and menaces might.

[Macca]

Yes, persuasion is the word I should have used. Threats and violence would be crimes in and of themselves.

[Paul-H]

Just a quick update

3 years down the road and it's still not sorted, the two firms of Solicitors have pretty much split the estate value 50/50 with their collective fees

Had to sell our house to cover the next stage which is going to court.

Starting to wish I had walked away and just handed it over at the start.

[struth]

yeah, solicitors are the bain of life... always get the biggest slice of pie irrellevant of if they do anything worthwhile

[Paul-H]

Apparently in law a Solicitor knows more about mental health than Doctors do. If the Solicitor says on the day I saw the client they appeared to be of sound mind that is good enough.

The bit about being of sound mind is no longer part of a Will.

Guess which profession was behind that little gem.

No wonder so many Solicitors go on to be politician is it

[guy]

It was a year ago yesterday that my mum died - solicitor has just paid stonemason, so interment can go ahead (funds were there from the start) and still waiting for probate. They certainly work at their own pace.