View Full Version : Croft 25R phono stage valves
Hello All,
Not posted for a while so first of all, hi !
Now I do recall there is a bit of GC love here ;-)
I seem to have upgraded my TT and am enjoying vinyl more and more, the whole package, not just the fidelity. Looking towards lower spend upgrades I still have the standard issue JJ ECC83 in the phono stage and was just after a handful of quick recommendations to replace these. I'm not really looking to tube roll, just replace the standard issue with something that might improve all round performance.
Thank you.
Your should try the oldest NOS Tesla E83CC you can find (pay attention to the spelling: E83CC is different in terms of quality from ECC83, although they are pin-compatible). IMO, Tesla E83CC have no competitor in the Croft phono stage!
I am talking from experience... -)
Hello All,
Not posted for a while so first of all, hi !
Now I do recall there is a bit of GC love here ;-)
I seem to have upgraded my TT and am enjoying vinyl more and more, the whole package, not just the fidelity. Looking towards lower spend upgrades I still have the standard issue JJ ECC83 in the phono stage and was just after a handful of quick recommendations to replace these. I'm not really looking to tube roll, just replace the standard issue with something that might improve all round performance.
Thank you.
Your should try the oldest NOS Tesla E83CC you can find (pay attention to the spelling: E83CC is different in terms of quality from ECC83, although they are pin-compatible). IMO, Tesla E83CC have no competitor in the Croft phono stage!
I am talking from experience... -)
Thank you Panos, you're conviction is very persuasive !
Thank you Panos, you're conviction is very persuasive !
Just beware of fakes... There are many fakes, pretending to be Tesla E83CC...
Just beware of fakes... There are many fakes, pretending to be Tesla E83CC...
I've been looking into this - it's a minefield and prices vary massively.
Jacmusic is selling pairs of them for 270 euros. Is that too dear, or is it a fair price for peace of mind?
In my Croft Integrated I have two ECC83 for the phono stage and one for the main output. Anyone got any advice on what I should put in the output assuming I am going to blowout on NOS Tesla for the phono?
R
I've been looking into this - it's a minefield and prices vary massively.
Jacmusic is selling pairs of them for 270 euros. Is that too dear, or is it a fair price for peace of mind?
In my Croft Integrated I have two ECC83 for the phono stage and one for the main output. Anyone got any advice on what I should put in the output assuming I am going to blowout on NOS Tesla for the phono?
R
IMO, for the phone stage you should definitely go for the NOS Tesla E83CC (2 valves). For the third ECC83 valve you mention, you could try a NOS Mullard ECC83 (as per Glenn Croft's recommendation). In that position a Tesla does not work equally well like it does in the phono stage.
I have purchased NOS Tesla valves with JacMusic and from Mullardman. I have been happy with both (I have no affiliation to either of the two).
For the last few years I have been using NOS Tesla E83CC valves in my Croft 25R both in the regulation and phono stage. These valves are in pairs as they are different.
Phono stage are E83CC 37's, Regulation stage E83CC 32's. Now I thought the 32's were the better valve but I now think the 37's are the better of the two. However my 37's are genuine NOS and not used where as the 32's are?
As a result I have just ordered another pair of NOS Tesla E83CC 37's and will now run them in my phono and regulation stage.
Could be interesting.
For the last few years I have been using NOS Tesla E83CC valves in my Croft 25R both in the regulation and phono stage. These valves are in pairs as they are different.
Phono stage are E83CC 37's, Regulation stage E83CC 32's. Now I thought the 32's were the better valve but I now think the 37's are the better of the two. However my 37's are genuine NOS and not used where as the 32's are?
As a result I have just ordered another pair of NOS Tesla E83CC 37's and will now run them in my phono and regulation stage.
Could be interesting.
James,
interesting observation between the 37s and and the 32s! I would be eager to hear your findings with the new pair of E83CCs.
For me the Tesla E83CC did not work well in the regulation. They were magnificent in the phono stage. In the regulation I preferred Mullards.
James,
interesting observation between the 37s and and the 32s! I would be eager to hear your findings with the new pair of E83CCs.
For me the Tesla E83CC did not work well in the regulation. They were magnificent in the phono stage. In the regulation I preferred Mullards.
Interesting observation there Panos regarding the E83CC in the regulation stage, I will try something else in this position. I agree with you that there is nothing better than NOS Tesla E83CC in the phono stage. Simple stunning clarity and transparency.
Interesting observation there Panos regarding the E83CC in the regulation stage, I will try something else in this position. I agree with you that there is nothing better than NOS Tesla E83CC in the phono stage. Simple stunning clarity and transparency.
James,
Are aware of the model year of the Teslas you use? Have you had expererience with various model years?
Any opinion from a comparison perhaps?
Cheers.
James,
Are aware of the model year of the Teslas you use? Have you had expererience with various model years?
Any opinion from a comparison perhaps?
Cheers.
The E83CC 37's were the last Tesla manufactured in their factory before selling onto JJ so probably 70's period. Don't have an exact date but will have a look when the next pair arrive if they come on original box however last time they were in plain boxes as not all valves came in individual boxes but were crated like eggs!
The E83CC 37's were the last Tesla manufactured in their factory before selling onto JJ so probably 70's period. Don't have an exact date but will have a look when the next pair arrive if they come on original box however last time they were in plain boxes as not all valves came in individual boxes but were crated like eggs!
James,
I understand that they 32's should have yellow lettering. How about the 37's? Are the yellow or white? If I am not mistaken, valves of the most recent model years had white lettering.
Interesting observation there Panos regarding the E83CC in the regulation stage, I will try something else in this position. I agree with you that there is nothing better than NOS Tesla E83CC in the phono stage. Simple stunning clarity and transparency.
James,
I would like to send you a PM, but your storage space is full. Would it be possible to make some space perhaps?
Cheers,
Panos
The 37's have white writing on them. These valves are from one of the most respected valve suppliers in the UK so I have no doubt about their authenticity.
Not sure about other Tesla 32 I have used and how much use they have had. The 37's will be unused. Probably manufactured end of 1969-1970.
The 37's have white writing on them. These valves are from one of the most respected valve suppliers in the UK so I have no doubt about their authenticity.
Not sure about other Tesla 32 I have used and how much use they have had. The 37's will be unused. Probably manufactured end of 1969-1970.
James, it will be interesting to hear your impression when you do a head-to-head comparison of the yellow vs the white labeled Teslas.
So some NOS Tesla E83CC 37,s have turned up and comparing against the yellow gold pin 32's I feel these are better. Difficult to describe why, dynamic, detailed and crystal clear. Gives the phono stage a see through quality and a transparency to the recording that makes the hifi disappear.
http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k424/Spendorsp2/image_zpsn6bnzsyh.jpeg (http://s326.photobucket.com/user/Spendorsp2/media/image_zpsn6bnzsyh.jpeg.html)
http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k424/Spendorsp2/image_zpsjgthofdp.jpeg (http://s326.photobucket.com/user/Spendorsp2/media/image_zpsjgthofdp.jpeg.html)
So some NOS Tesla E83CC 37,s have turned up and comparing against the yellow gold pin 32's I feel these are better. Difficult to describe why, dynamic, detailed and crystal clear. Gives the phono stage a see through quality and a transparency to the recording that makes the hifi disappear.
http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k424/Spendorsp2/image_zpsn6bnzsyh.jpeg (http://s326.photobucket.com/user/Spendorsp2/media/image_zpsn6bnzsyh.jpeg.html)
http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k424/Spendorsp2/image_zpsjgthofdp.jpeg (http://s326.photobucket.com/user/Spendorsp2/media/image_zpsjgthofdp.jpeg.html)
Interesting, James.
Have you tried them only in phono or also in the regulation stage?
Could you perhaps PM me your supplier?
Thanks
Interesting, James.
Have you tried them only in phono or also in the regulation stage?
Could you perhaps PM me your supplier?
Thanks
I have tried them in phono stage and they work well in that position. In fact I have tried 37's and 32's in every combination now but I think the 37's have the edge.
These were bought privately and not sure if they have any more for sale but will check.
Other tubes I would consider in the phono stage would be NOS Valvo and Mazda,both are considered very good especially the Valvo which are apparently manufactured to the same specification as the telefunken.
I have also returned back to a NOS RCA 12Bh7a in the line stage as this sounds best to me.
As with all things however my valve and set up is very particular to my system which has been painstakingly evaluated over a long period in order to achieve maximum system synergy. I have tried many valves and cable combinations and in recent months a number of different cartridges in order to try and get to my ideal sound. My speakers need a lift in the treble as they are not particularly bright so I use silver cables and RCA plugs along with the valve combination in my amps.
What works for me as I am sure you will appreciate may sound very different in your system so I would certainly go with your own ears as to what works for you. I tend to rave on about what I hear but this is Only in the context of my system and the particular sound I am trying to achieve.
In general though Panos I think any of the NOS Tesla E83CC valves are the best and clearest valves you can use in a Croft 25 amp although I would not say they are the warmest.:)
I have tried them in phono stage and they work well in that position. In fact I have tried 37's and 32's in every combination now but I think the 37's have the edge.
These were bought privately and not sure if they have any more for sale but will check.
Other tubes I would consider in the phono stage would be NOS Valvo and Mazda,both are considered very good especially the Valvo which are apparently manufactured to the same specification as the telefunken.
I have also returned back to a NOS RCA 12Bh7a in the line stage as this sounds best to me.
As with all things however my valve and set up is very particular to my system which has been painstakingly evaluated over a long period in order to achieve maximum system synergy. I have tried many valves and cable combinations and in recent months a number of different cartridges in order to try and get to my ideal sound. My speakers need a lift in the treble as they are not particularly bright so I use silver cables and RCA plugs along with the valve combination in my amps.
What works for me as I am sure you will appreciate may sound very different in your system so I would certainly go with your own ears as to what works for you. I tend to rave on about what I hear but this is Only in the context of my system and the particular sound I am trying to achieve.
In general though Panos I think any of the NOS Tesla E83CC valves are the best and clearest valves you can use in a Croft 25 amp although I would not say they are the warmest.:)
James,
would you be kind enough to PM me the price you paid for your Tesla E83CC 37? I cannot PM you because your personal inbox is full.
I understand that the white labelled Teslas are more recent than the yellow-labeled ones. I also happen to have two pairs, one yellow and one white. There are some differences in my opinion, the yellow being 'richer' and the white ones 'leaner'. Depending on system character and personal preference, either one may be a better match. But I would not expect anyone to say that Tesla E83CC are not at least very good (if not exceptional).
I have tried them in phono stage and they work well in that position. In fact I have tried 37's and 32's in every combination now but I think the 37's have the edge.
These were bought privately and not sure if they have any more for sale but will check.
Other tubes I would consider in the phono stage would be NOS Valvo and Mazda,both are considered very good especially the Valvo which are apparently manufactured to the same specification as the telefunken.
I have also returned back to a NOS RCA 12Bh7a in the line stage as this sounds best to me.
As with all things however my valve and set up is very particular to my system which has been painstakingly evaluated over a long period in order to achieve maximum system synergy. I have tried many valves and cable combinations and in recent months a number of different cartridges in order to try and get to my ideal sound. My speakers need a lift in the treble as they are not particularly bright so I use silver cables and RCA plugs along with the valve combination in my amps.
What works for me as I am sure you will appreciate may sound very different in your system so I would certainly go with your own ears as to what works for you. I tend to rave on about what I hear but this is Only in the context of my system and the particular sound I am trying to achieve.
In general though Panos I think any of the NOS Tesla E83CC valves are the best and clearest valves you can use in a Croft 25 amp although I would not say they are the warmest.:)
Hi James,
Does your NOS RCA 12Bh7a have grey or black plates ? I am happy with my current Sylvania tube, but would like to try a RCA at some stage.
Your should try the oldest NOS Tesla E83CC you can find (pay attention to the spelling: E83CC is different in terms of quality from ECC83, although they are pin-compatible). IMO, Tesla E83CC have no competitor in the Croft phono stage!
I am talking from experience... -)
+1 :)
Hi James,
Does your NOS RCA 12Bh7a have grey or black plates ? I am happy with my current Sylvania tube, but would like to try a RCA at some stage.
I will check for you Oliver.
I will check for you Oliver.
Thanks James,
I am hoping you say "black", cos all my tubes are grey plates, and I have an itch to scratch :)
Thanks James,
I am hoping you say "black", cos all my tubes are grey plates, and I have an itch to scratch :)
I have tried quite a few 12BH7A with my Micro25R, such as RCA, Sylvania, Tungsol, Raytheon, and Westinghouse, and I personally preferred the Raytheon and the Westinghouse (the latter looking almost identical to the Raytheons; they may have been actually manufactured by Raytheon and rebranded to Westinghouse). I am expecting some other 12BH7A to try them out as well.
Thanks James,
I am hoping you say "black", cos all my tubes are grey plates, and I have an itch to scratch :)
It's black.
Thanks James,
I will add a RCA black plate to my xmas list :)
James & Panos,
I recently asked Glenn if my 25R reversed polarity, and his answer was "no" not on the low gain cathode follower circuit, but the power amp does, so I reversed my speaker cables + to - .
I always thought the 25 & S7 both reversed polarity so this was news to me.
I am not sure if this circuit configuration is only used in 25's that are shipped with 12AU7 or 12BH7 valves, but could be something you may want to look into ?
Oliver
After fitting all E83CC NOS Tesla 37 valves in the Croft 25R I feel the sound is better than a mix of 37's and 32's. Don't know why this should be the case although the 37's in the phono stage are unused NOS!:D
After fitting all E83CC NOS Tesla 37 valves in the Croft 25R I feel the sound is better than a mix of 37's and 32's. Don't know why this should be the case although the 37's in the phono stage are unused NOS!:D
Hmmm, interesting... So, if I understand correctly, you have 2 NOS Tesla 37 in phono and also 2 NOS Tesla in the regulation? When I tried Teslas in the regulation in my 25R, I found the overall result on the 'thin' side. So, the Teslas did not work for me in the regulation. Therefore, I have been experimenting with various alternatives in the regulation, e.g. Mullards ECC83, CV492, M8137, and Brimar ECC83. Have not made up my mind yet, though.
By the way, what make of 12BH7A do you use?
Cheers,
P.
Hmmm, interesting... So, if I understand correctly, you have 2 NOS Tesla 37 in phono and also 2 NOS Tesla in the regulation? When I tried Teslas in the regulation in my 25R, I found the overall result on the 'thin' side. So, the Teslas did not work for me in the regulation. Therefore, I have been experimenting with various alternatives in the regulation, e.g. Mullards ECC83, CV492, M8137, and Brimar ECC83. Have not made up my mind yet, though.
By the way, what make of 12BH7A do you use?
Cheers,
P.
Yes Panos I am now using 37's in phono and regulation stage.:)
The 12BH7a is a black plate RCA.
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