View Full Version : Record Cleaning machine ?
Hi all
Looking to pickup a record Cleaning Machine and locally I have a choice of two
The Pro-Ject one at £299 and the Okki Nokki one at £399.
Anyone got any views as to which one is the better option to go for.
Thanks for any input
Paul
Not much difference between , apart from £100 difference in price , I do prefer Pro-Ject but some complain about noisy drive .
It is bit noisy but works , another difference is a big platter supporting record and again some prefer it as they do apply fair amount of downforce while scrubbing .
I have cleaned close to 300 records ( almost all of them 2nd hand) and found no need to scrub records excessively, in case of very dirty records I just leave fluid longer on the vinyl to dissolve/ break bonds between dirt/grease and record , sometime it takes second cleaning.
There are few threads on here, Pinkfishmedia and WAM , people arguing whats best but in my opinion both do same job
topoxforddoc
24-09-2016, 07:59
In the standard RCM market, I think that they are all pretty much the same. I think that you would be hard pushed to hear any difference in LP SQ between a Moth, Project, Okki Nokki or VPI. The more expensive Loricraft and Keith Monks are much quieter and may get your LP a bit cleaner with one cycle (you can always repeat the clean). The ultrasonic RCMs are mean to be excellent, but there have been reports of iffy reliability and early failures just out of warranty.
daytona600
24-09-2016, 10:52
Project made in Europe in huge volumes 2year warranty £300
Okki made in China in small volumes 1year warranty £400
Project Dust Cover £25 , Okki £60
Project Dust Cover £25 , Okki £60
I don't have a lid on my Okki, I just leave an old rubbish record with a nice label on it, which keeps dust off the platter. I chose the Okki because it was cheapest available to me at the time, plus I liked the look of it (the white one). And I like the name. I am very pleased with it.
:)
A Moth has better build quality and is a better design than either the Project or the Nokki. I notice Scot is selling a used Mk2 pro for £200, I'd be on that like an MP on a rent boy if I didn't already have one. (A Moth, that is).
Clive197
24-09-2016, 12:15
I've now had my Pro-Ject RCM for 4 months and am very happy with it, excellent value for money especially the latest version with (slightly) quieter motor and a few other revisions. Love the way records cleaned lack static and look all shiny.
I wear earbuds using the moth. Mind you its situated in a back section of kitchen and gets a lot louder than normal. Tbh i dont have to use it a lot
Has anyone tried the Record Doctor V? I see Scott @Daytona600 (http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?46752-FS-RCM-record-cleaning-machines) sells them (http://snvinyl.co.uk/epages/eshop943300.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/eshop943300/Products/RDRCM). I like the fact that it's a small unit and that the vacuum works below the record. It looks like a poor mans Nitty Gritty.
The video looks interesting too.
https://youtu.be/6fciNaDb4EM
Like a low suck myself :lol: moth is that way, and prefer the small turntable. The clamp was the only issue with my moth and grip on tt wheel. I solved it by cutting a round piece of antislip mat for the platter and use a couple of cds under the screw and over the label. Works much better.
Ammonite Audio
24-09-2016, 13:35
Project made in Europe in huge volumes 2year warranty £300
Okki made in China in small volumes 1year warranty £400
Project Dust Cover £25 , Okki £60
I though that the Okki Nokki was made by Clearaudio in Germany, or is that no longer the case?
prestonchipfryer
24-09-2016, 13:55
I use the Moth RCM which is now four years old and has cleaned 100s of LPs. Excellent results although noisy, so I wear ear defenders to save my precious lugholes from a battering. :)
hifi_dave
25-09-2016, 09:51
I wouldn't consider anything other than the Moth.
I have been using the same machine for close on 30 years in a shop environment, so it has cleaned tens of thousands of records without a hitch. I have also sold dozens of them and the customers are all happy.
It cleans as good as and better than some. Easy to use, built like a tank, very effective and UK made.
Not the sexiest of cleaners perhaps but as dave says, they are well built and reliable. Mine is about 9/10 years old and still works as well as ever
topoxforddoc
25-09-2016, 10:16
Like Hifidave, I have been using a Mot for over 20 years. It has been faultless and is built like a tank. OK, it sounds as loud as a tank too, but there are ways to deal with that :)
Just bought one on Friday, so am pleased to see the love-in for the Moth :D
Nothing against Moth , probably well built and reliable but I find hard to swallow people claiming it cleans better than others - it's a hoover sucking fluid through slot in the arm for God's sake .
I never suggested that it cleans better, but it does have 2 design advantages over the others:
1) underslung vacuum, so the varying thickness of the records being cleaned doesn't matter, it is always making full contact with the surface.
2) small platter so the playing surface does not come into contact with the platter, and so pick up dirt left by a previous record.
hifi_dave
25-09-2016, 11:17
Nothing against Moth , probably well built and reliable but I find hard to swallow people claiming it cleans better than others - it's a hoover sucking fluid through slot in the arm for God's sake .
Who says it "cleans better" ?
Having used many record cleaners over the decades, including a couple of far more expensive machines, I can say that the Moth is as good as the best, is reasonably priced, reliable and bullet proof.
Have I misunderstood?
It cleans as good as and better than some.
Think SOME is the important word here.
I never suggested that it cleans better, but it does have 2 design advantages over the others:
1) underslung vacuum, so the varying thickness of the records being cleaned doesn't matter, it is always making full contact with the surface.
2) small platter so the playing surface does not come into contact with the platter, and so pick up dirt left by a previous record.
My reply wasn't directed at you but just for argument sake:
Ad.1. Project have sliding up-down suction arm - thickness does not matter
Ad.2. Same when it comes to Pro-Ject.
and is £100 less , I'm not defending/marketing VC-S but is not worth spending lot of money on RCM working on exactly same principle
hifi_dave
25-09-2016, 11:36
Have I misunderstood?
"some" - I was thinking of some which just aren't very good. Nitty Gritty springs to mind. I had a couple which didn't suck too well and they were poorly made. There are also some budget 'cleaners' which are quite ineffectual.
My reply wasn't directed at you but just for argument sake:
Ad.1. Project have sliding up-down suction arm - thickness does not matter
Ad.2. Same when it comes to Pro-Ject.
and is £100 less , I'm not defending/marketing VC-S but is not worth spending lot of money on RCM working on exactly same principle
Hi Slav
Fair points about the Project, and £100 saving is not chicken feed. On the other hand for a device that will be kept for a lifetime and will see a lot of use the Moth may still be worth the extra in terms of build quality and reliability. £100 is not much over a few decades. That's not to say the Project falls down in those areas, but the user reviews I have read do seem a bit mixed on those two points. The only critical remarks I have ever read about the Moth is that it is noisy. Which it is. But then I don't use it whilst listening to music in the same way I don't hoover the carpet when listening to music.
"some" - I was thinking of some which just aren't very good. Nitty Gritty springs to mind. I had a couple which didn't suck too well and they were poorly made. There are also some budget 'cleaners' which are quite ineffectual.
You should prepare to fend off Nitty Gritty owners attack ,now :)
Hi Slav
Fair points about the Project, and £100 saving is not chicken feed. On the other hand for a device that will be kept for a lifetime and will see a lot of use the Moth may still be worth the extra in terms of build quality and reliability. £100 is not much over a few decades. That's not to say the Project falls down in those areas, but the user reviews I have read do seem a bit mixed on those two points. The only critical remarks I have ever read about the Moth is that it is noisy. Which it is. But then I don't use it whilst listening to music in the same way I don't hoover the carpet when listening to music.
Agreed , Pro-jects reliability is bit unknown as its been on the market for not long ,
Audio Al
25-09-2016, 13:36
I have just ordered one of these :)
PRC4
It has 70% greater suction power compared to PRC3 and PRC3 Deluxe. The search for a pump of this specification at this price took many years . Do not confuse these pumps with the ones used in vacuum cleaner based machines. These are laboratory standard scientific pumps which are quite and efficient. The PRC 4 is supplied in real wood veneer without cover. Set at 28 litres per minute flow for the pump ensuring even very dirty or warped records will be cleaned efficiently.
i got that beat!
if you've got carpets and records then buy this http://www.vax.co.uk/rapide-ultra-carpet-cleaner-and-washer?gclid=CKXIga_Rqs8CFWsq0wod5LAPiQ
fit moth felt strips to the upholstery tool or buy another one,get rid of the bristle brushes and bingo! it works a treat too!
Very nearly went down the Okki Nokki route myself as I like the design and white colour, but for £100 more the Moth just seemed a better long term investment.
I can honestly say that after my phono stage, having well cleaned records has made the biggest improvement in my system.
Very nearly went down the Okki Nokki route myself as I like the design and white colour, but for £100 more the Moth just seemed a better long term investment.
I can honestly say that after my phono stage, having well cleaned records has made the biggest improvement in my system.
Try getting your earwax un-bunged ... now, that really makes a difference :eek:
Try getting your earwax un-bunged ... now, that really makes a difference :eek:
I raise you a stapedechtomy!
Try getting your earwax un-bunged ... now, that really makes a difference :eek:
Ha! Love it!! :lol:
HackneyRF
26-09-2016, 11:26
Interesting reading the comments about RCMs. I will pick one up at some point when finances allow, just need to decide which one. I have been using a Knosti manual set up until now and obviously it is far from being the last word in record cleaning. But I think the big difference has been using The Right One fluid. I've been getting some great results since switching to this stuff.
Cheers
Loz
I have been using a Knosti manual set up until now and obviously it is far from being the last word in record cleaning. But I think the big difference has been using The Right One fluid. I've been getting some great results since switching to this stuff.
The problem I have with my Knosti is a residue left after cleaning. I should try a different fluid. However, I also wonder about the concept of bathing each record in the same liquid each time - even when filtered and changed relatively often. I notice with the vacuum machines, you actually only apply a relatively small amount of cleaning fluid, and it fresh for each record.
A bit like washing you dishes in dirty water
HackneyRF
26-09-2016, 15:26
I notice with the vacuum machines, you actually only apply a relatively small amount of cleaning fluid, and it fresh for each record.
A bit like washing you dishes in dirty water
Points taken, thanks fellas.
Jeff Wood
26-09-2016, 16:22
I'm also planning on buying an RCM but I'm waiting until I can afford a Loricraft or maybe the Nessie Vinylmaster.
Phil Lawton
27-09-2016, 09:13
Has anyone tried the Record Doctor V? I see Scott @Daytona600 (http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?46752-FS-RCM-record-cleaning-machines) sells them (http://snvinyl.co.uk/epages/eshop943300.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/eshop943300/Products/RDRCM). I like the fact that it's a small unit and that the vacuum works below the record. It looks like a poor mans Nitty Gritty.
The video looks interesting too.
https://youtu.be/6fciNaDb4EM
Yes, I own one. £199 (from Scott, AKA Daytona600 on these very pages) and has already saved me more than that in rescued records.
Turning of the record is done by hand, which is no real imposition, and the platter is small enough to avoid cross-contamination from other discs.
Simple, highly effective, portable, drainable...not much more to add, other than it is a bit loud, so I wear industrial ear-defenders, £5 from eBay.
Couple this, as I do, with cleaning fluid (The Right One) from Paul Stewart of this parish and you're onto a winner.
Jeff Wood
27-09-2016, 16:39
I've just ordered a Nessie Vinyl Master....hopefully it will take the misery out of record cleaning...
(Father Ted/Mrs Doyle based joke there :)
Anyone else on here got one ???
New one on me but I notice they are on amazon. Not exactly giving them away are they? Classy bit of kit though.
Looks good, but so does the price.. ouch i got burnt there :eyebrows:
Jeff Wood
27-09-2016, 17:43
I looked at them all, and it decided it had to be that one...
Because I want in the lounge that ruled out all the noisy, and dare I say ugly looking ones.
Also, I like its automation, I think a combination of it location near my hifi and its ease of use will mean I use it all the time.
And I know it's expensive but you do get Anushka with it, or at least I think you do :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-J9FH2SW3Y
Free young lass with every purchase :D Sounded quiet and looked good... Mine is louder than the vacuum cleaner lol. Hope you can get it fixed easily over here...looks to be more efficient than the Lorricraft which, with bits of thread etc is a pita imv
Jeff Wood
27-09-2016, 18:41
it's German built, it wont go wrong :)
and yes I nearly bought a Loricraft, but what bothered me about that was what happens if the fluid evaporates before the wand gets to suck it up ?
plus you've still got the "hassle" of putting liquid on the record, brushing it in, finding where you've put the liquid etc
My moth has a tank for the used fluid... It has a tap to drain it...... NOT ONE DROP HAS COME OUT OF IT IN 10 YEARS... F==k knows where it goes :eek:
Jeff Wood
27-09-2016, 19:01
:) must be evaporating somewhere.
Yes, I own one. £199 (from Scott, AKA Daytona600 on these very pages) and has already saved me more than that in rescued records.
Turning of the record is done by hand, which is no real imposition, and the platter is small enough to avoid cross-contamination from other discs.
Simple, highly effective, portable, drainable...not much more to add, other than it is a bit loud, so I wear industrial ear-defenders, £5 from eBay.
Couple this, as I do, with cleaning fluid (The Right One) from Paul Stewart of this parish and you're onto a winner.
Thanks Phil. I'm intending to buy one when I get back from a short holiday.
I bought a Moth cleaner, says I.
Jolly good, says she (reading her book).
(Sometime later)
What did you just say you bought?
A Moth cleaner. They're very good.
A what??
It's a record cleaner. Here, let me show you.
God, that's ugly. And where do you intend to put that thing?
Err ... hadn't really decided ... (long pause) ... in the shed, maybe?
Good answer, says she.
aYE, THEY DONT LIKE THEM. Mine used to be in shed too.. banished there for peace and quiet, and I dont mean from the cleaner:eyebrows:
prestonchipfryer
28-09-2016, 18:31
You could always try tipping the Moth forwards to drain off the dirty fluid into a suitable receptacle. Having said that though, I've only ever done that with my Moth after cleaning 20 LPs or so in one session. Otherwise the fluid will evaporate.
Idlewithnodrive
28-09-2016, 20:30
A very happy Okki MkII user here.
The cleaning solution used is equally as important as the RCM, IME.
My moth has a tank for the used fluid... It has a tap to drain it...... NOT ONE DROP HAS COME OUT OF IT IN 10 YEARS... F==k knows where it goes :eek:
I'm so glad you mentioned that - I thought it was just me!
To be fair, I probably only clean about 8-10 records at a time (ready for a playing session). Also agree about what fluid you use - I've had really good results with 'The Right One' too.
Audio Al
29-09-2016, 10:51
My moth has a tank for the used fluid... It has a tap to drain it...... NOT ONE DROP HAS COME OUT OF IT IN 10 YEARS... F==k knows where it goes :eek:
Grant , are you being a Scotsman with fluid use ( You need to wet the record ) not just vacuum it ! :lol:
Grant , are you being a Scotsman with fluid use ( You need to wet the record ) not just vacuum it ! :lol:
Lol... i make my own fluid :eyebrows: Well it comes free as a by product :eek:
if you have a boat Grant's fluid will strip the paint off the deck.
Audio Al
29-09-2016, 12:07
if you have a boat Grant's fluid will strip the paint off the deck.
Is it that TOXIC :eek:
Some think that it must be. I can assure folk my fluid is the best there is imho. Cleans great and all my records sound superb. Costs a lot less that buying it in, but many think otherwise...their loss, my gain.:)
Jeff Wood
29-09-2016, 13:42
My Nessie Vinylmaster has just arrived,
Just been using it, and it is awesome !
Looks great too, very nicely built.
So quick and easy to use, you could pretty much clean an album every time you play, its not much hassle..
Audio Al
29-09-2016, 14:41
:(
My Loricraft PRC4 was supposed to be delivered Tuesday , Did not happen , Then I was told it will be Wednesday ( I could not do Wednesday ) now it supposed to be today , nearly 16.00 and its not arrived yet :(
Hey Ho
Had a return to be picked up from amazon. Hermes were to pick it up monday....didnt come, then tuesday...didnt come:rolleyes: i had words with amazon, and they orginised dpd to come today..came as arranged with a one hr timeslot... big difference. Still i had to stay in 2 days for nothing
Ammonite Audio
29-09-2016, 15:48
My Nessie Vinylmaster has just arrived,
Just been using it, and it is awesome !
Looks great too, very nicely built.
So quick and easy to use, you could pretty much clean an album every time you play, its not much hassle..
I only heard about the Nessie yesterday, and it does look like a classy bit of kit. Is it reasonably quiet?
Saw a vid of it. Sounded barely audible.. looked very good
Jeff Wood
29-09-2016, 16:19
yeah, its noise isn't a problem at all.
I really do think its amazing, looks really good, nice black gloss finish, well worth saving/begging/selling a kidney for :)
supapeet
12-10-2016, 16:00
I use a VPI and I'm very happy with it. I also use The Right One fluid from Paul. I'm never sure how long to leave the fluid on and I'm still using the same brush after about 9 months use.
Can anyone recommend a brush with smaller bristles as sometimes when I work the fluid in on a really dirty record I do wonder if it's having any effect.
My moth has a tank for the used fluid... It has a tap to drain it...... NOT ONE DROP HAS COME OUT OF IT IN 10 YEARS... F==k knows where it goes :eek:
Surely it's not the fluid we need to worry about it's all the dirt and crap coming off with the fluid? I flush my Okki Nokki through now and then and the amount of filth that comes out is quite astonishing. If the fluid is just evaporating inside the machine I would worry that it was getting full up with dirt.
Has anyone tried the Record Doctor V? I see Scott @Daytona600 (http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?46752-FS-RCM-record-cleaning-machines) sells them (http://snvinyl.co.uk/epages/eshop943300.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/eshop943300/Products/RDRCM). I like the fact that it's a small unit and that the vacuum works below the record. It looks like a poor mans Nitty Gritty.
The video looks interesting too.
https://youtu.be/6fciNaDb4EM
Well I took the plunge and bought a Record Doctor V from Scott. It arrived a few days ago, and I've finally had some free time to give it a try, and I'm chuffed to bits with the results. Surface noise has gone - and so have the static crackles and pops. The result is a really clear clean sound. It's means my Hana cartridge is really singing.
I found it easy to use, and personally I don't find it too loud. Quieter than our vacuum cleaner. I bought a small painting pad (http://www.diy.com/departments/harris-smooth-or-uneven-surfaces-paint-pad/978611_BQ.prd) to apply the solution. And that went on really easily. The cleaner seems to dry the record in about three rotations.
I'm also pleased with how compact the unit is. It should be easy to store it out of the way in a corner of my study.
It's a significant improvement over my Knosti Disco Antistat Record cleaner, which left a residue on my records that then clogged up the stylus.
For a couple of hundred quid, this is a bargain. Should have bought one ages ago.
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