technics turntable choice and mods/sound quality

[smithie]

hi guys
im hoping you guys/gurus/experts and those with vast experience can help me out and decide a path for me to take regarding my analogue replay bliss:)
like most, i hardly have two shillings to rub together so all this is being done on a very very tight budget and as and when that allows.....so nothings gonna happen over night:)
first let me state that ive decided on a direct drive technics turntable,i dont want to bring up the debate over which type of drive turntable is best,the reason i went this route is for the simple fact that the technics dd players are tough and hardy and easy to use.....and thats what i need in this household as its not just me that has access to the turntable,plus im quite happy with the technics sound im experiencing at the moment which is being provided by a sl1500 mk1, at110e cartridge.
i also have a nice example technics sl150 without arm,if its like the 1500mk1 then i guess its gonna need the caps changed for good measure,and the pots etc cleaned and lobed,ive never fired it up ,it may be fine,but for the price of some caps and easy effort involved in doing this,i would be foolish not to do it if i kept it.
now to my first question and point.....is something like the sl1200/1210 mk gonna be a better foundation to build upon ....due mainly i guess to it being quartz locked rather then the method the sl150 uses?
im never gonna be aiming for,or have the funds for a ultimate replay rig,and my system will never reach those heights either,ive been into this for 30 years plus and ive had some lofty high class gear in that time but i soon realised that dearest and pretty isnt always best,and putting a system together that sounds more then the sum of its parts is always the real buzz,and thats what im aiming to try to do here,of course having no money also dictates that approach to:lol:
ive got plenty more to say yet but ill stop with this question first as i dont want to turn this post into the size of war and peace size book,plus if i get a consensus to this question then that will dictate future ideas and questions:)
appreciate any help and wisdom regarding this matter.
regards
smithie

[walpurgis]

I've never found any particular advantage using a quartz locked direct drive turntable.

If your SL-150 is working fine, then I'd suggest leaving well alone apart from a drop of oil on the main bearing. It's a reliable unit and should not give any bother.

Invest money in a good cartridge, decently rigid headshell, plus maybe a platter mat upgrade and it'll be fine. Hope you've got a phono stage to do it justice. :)

[struth]

My jbe isnt locked either and is fine.. one less thing that can go wrong imv. If you dont need the huge torque of a 1200 then i,d do as geoff advises

[smithie]

so it seems that the quartz thing isnt a major sound quality hit then,is that right?
whatever turntable i go with, it will eventually be mounted up on a wall shelf,i have concrete floors anyway,so other then common sense regarding placement any of these decks shouldn't suffer to bad regarding better isolation properties? or would the better build of the 1200/1210 mk2 shine through? if i did go with the sl150 then i would look into building or getting built a better lower plinth section,for no other reason then the standard one i reckon lets the turntable down by being plastic and flimsy feeling,and if i did go this route then i could look at incorporating better isolation into that maybe?
now thinking on the bigger picture....
the sl150 doesnt have a tonearm,and lets be fair thats gonna cost abit(unless anyone has a half decent one going cheap?:))....so when you factor in that cost,wouldnt it make more sense to get the 1200 mk2 ive been offered that comes complete???
i dont know how the technics arm stands soundwise in the scheme of things(ive read plenty of debates:)) but i assume its not half bad and i certainly like using the one thats on the sl1500 i have,but of course im looking to build a turntable thats a step up and more then the sum of its parts....one of the best priced arms ive come across that might work well with the sl150 and take it to a better level is this http://www.audiomods.co.uk/armkits.html ,,it seems a good deal,its still expensive for me,but i realise a half decent turntable is still gonna cost afew shillings:),and if thats what it takes then i shall save up till i can afford it,if people feel that would be a special combination,or maybe a cheaper option of a technics 1200/1210 mk2 arm in the sl150 may be good enough,in which case that would probably work out alot cheaper,i realise it involves a slight mod to the turntable and its not a straight fit.....just thinking out loud and sharing my thoughts here:),feel free to help/guide and put me out out of my misery regarding the way to go and best approach......so,would a modded sl150 deck as mentioned one way or the other above be better then a sans 1200,i guess thats the question as it could be working out alot more money in the long run....hence my need for help and guidance and your wisdom...in case you haven't noticed yet.....i haven't got a clue:):)

i appreciate all the help and advice

regards
smithie

[walpurgis]

The SL-1200/1210 turntables are no better made than the SL-150. In fact later examples may be inferior in terms of finish.

I'm fairly sure the SL-1200/1210 arm is not a drop in fit in the SL-150 if that's what you were thinking of using. I think the bolt holes may be in different positions.

A cheap, but effective option might be to get a Linn LV-V arm and a Linn mounting plate. The arm is capable enough for most modern cartridges. I won't discuss Rega arm options. 'Cos I'm not keen on Rega arms.

By the way. Ignore the quartz lock thing. It means nothing in sound terms.

[smithie]

hi warpurgis
thanks for your guidance and help,much appreciated.
i realise i would have to slightly mod the sl150 with the technics arm,there was a good write up on another forum regarding fitting one,and looking at it i would feel quite comfy doing that if needed.
ive never looked at a linn arm,i shall do that alittle later and see whats out there and what they go for,and fair enough regarding your views on rega,i have no experience or knowledge on any tone arms and the reason im relying on your good self and others on this forum to guide me:)
i dont know if this will effect things regarding tonearm choice,the two cartridges i was thinking of going with are...denon dl110 or Nagaoka mp110,ive only come to that conclusion after reading up and reading views and comments so obviously im not commited to anything as yet.
regards
smithie

[Macca]

What is the rest of the system?

[smithie]

hi martin
system is in a cobbled together state of bits and bobs at the moment:),i swore i was out of this game afew years back and sold everything up.....yet here i am still:D:D:D
i have a small room 12x 14ft,so its never going to be a massive system,although ive been known to play loud from time to time,depending on how much red wine ive drunk:)
so these are the keepers...
technics turntable of some sort.
tannoy xt6f speakers
amp at prestent is a yamaha as501.
digital is served by my pc and a mad experiment akm dac,im more then happy with the digital side of things for now.
i was using the yamaha as501 internal phono stage but ive since splashed out on this mega phonostage http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Nobsound-DUAL-OP-AMP-Phono-Stage-Pre-Amplifier-MM-Turntables-Hi-Fi-Audio-Preamp-/272172696368?hash=item3f5ec1c330:g:N7QAAOSwu1VW6P~ b :)...no giggling at the back there!!
the phonostage will be on the list to replace but the one im using was a big step up compared to the yamahas,longer term im thinking a valve phonostage,maybe making a ear834p clone,but if i dont go that route a better phonostage is on the cards at some point,so feel free to recommend a good value one of them to:):)...what can i say ,im a empty book that needs to be filled:D
regards
smithie

[walpurgis]

ive never looked at a linn arm,i shall do that alittle later and see whats out there and what they go for

smithie

The LV-V Linn arm is the one to look at. Not to be confused with the LV-X models, which have less universal application, as they are best suited to higher compliance cartridges.

Both the DL-110 and Nagaoka would suit the LV-V and the Technics arm.

[walpurgis]

By the way. You need to put a location in your profile. Town, region and country if outside UK, if you can please. It may be best if you put your name in there too. Then you won't have to keep typing it in. Thanks, Geoff.

[Macca]

So quite a modern system then.

I'm really not the man to be asking about anything turntable-related. I know what I like and that's about it. And I only own four of them so not even a beginner compared to some folk here.

The problems you have are twofold:

1) not much money to spend on upgrades with a medium where
2) Everything can be upgraded. Infinitely. Power supply, motor unit, bearing, platter, top plate, arm, armboard, cartridge, headshell, counterweight, cables, phonostage, mat, and the thing it all sits on. And once you have done that you can fiddle with SRA, VTA, tracking weight, azimuth, and bias

And you are probably going to want a record cleaning machine at some point.

If you are able to build your own electronics that should save a few quid, mind.

[smithie]

warpurgis....many thanks,and have updated my profile as requested.
martin,i realise theres sooooooo much stuff that you can be tweaked,updated,tuned and modded regarding the turntable,like with all the other bits in the adio chain:),but what im trying to do first is get the best foundation and main ingredients i can within my dismal budget situation,and then work with those parts to get the best sound possible with them via tweaks and mods and fairy dust:),what i cant afford to do is take a punt/chance and chase my tail and waste what little funds i have and get.....hence all my questions etc,and my reliance and faith on you guys that have been there,tried that,and the wisdom and knowledge youve gained because of it.
the system at present is quite modern for sure,it might not stay that way of course,just depends on the bargains/deals and luck that come my way at the right time:)
regards
paul

[smithie]

and yes....having hardly any money is a big problem in this game:D:):):)

[walpurgis]

I was in Penzance a few weeks ago. I have family not far away.

[smithie]

ive lived down here around 14 yrs now.....ill think ill stay:)

[smithie]

its certainly handy having family scattered around the country,,,,makes for cheap holidays,shame my family is all local:) or is that loco

[smithie]

just a heads up....
spent a night rewiring my sl1500 mk1 tonrarm with this stuff

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/172351234928?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

dont know how it fits in the pecking order of sound quality over such likes like cardas etc,my thoughts where along the lines that it was cheap,plentiful and easy to get,plus anything should be a upgrade on the 30 yr plus stuff thats already in it:D.
there was so much of the wire that i ran it from the tonearm and directly run it out as interconnects with the help of some teflon tubing:)
what i can say is....its really great to use,strong and easy to tin....to me,thats half the battle won right there,regarding sound quality,as mentioned,ive just replaced the very old technics original wire so i guess anything is gonna sound like a "open window" ...and it certainly does:),im well chuffed with my effort and results!!!
just thought i would share for others who are watching and counting the pennies to and cant stretch to the latest and greatest upgraded bits and bobs,i also would like to point out that i have no vested interest or connection with this company,just happy with the product and results and thought i would share:)
should of took pics of the whole operation,but alas i was to focused on the job in hand,anyhow ive just taken afew quickies showing you my results at the headshell.

181021810318104
regards
smithie

[walpurgis]

TransFi stuff is decent enough Paul.

If you pick up any hum, you can slide some braided screening tube over the wires to the deck. Like this: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-1-meter-Copper-screen-braiding-from-LappKabel-outer-diameter-1-4-mm-/302083309759?hash=item46559180bf:g:F08AAOSwzJ5Xe5o C

It can be earthed, at either end or both or left unearthed as suits.

When I need any, I just strip some microphone lead. I have a roll fortunately.

The braid can be covered with heat shrink tube. Makes it a bit stiff though. Silicone rubber tubing is good if you can find it.

[smithie]

hi warpurgis
at present im all good regarding hum issues,but i thank you for the ebay link,always handy knowing where to get bits and bobs from to sort issues out and solve problems as and when needed.....thats why good forums and the peeps on them are a must:).
i also thought about microphone or headphone cable,but as i had none lying about i thought i might as well push the boat out and be damned with the expense:D,but once again,thats another great tip and thanks for sharing:thumbsup:

regards
smithie

[walpurgis]

Just remembered. If anybody needs very flexible insulating sleeving the right size for turntable leads, take a look at tubular slingshot elastic and surgical tubing. They are usually very soft silicone rubber. Just make sure the bore is big enough.