View Full Version : Fitting a Decca cartridge to a Project Turntable
Thanks to everyone who has already contributed to the thread asking whether this was a good idea...
Now, I need help with a number of areas:
(a) The cartridge carrier has 3 pins. Can anyone remind me of the pin designations please? I obviously knew originally, but it is lost in the mists of time...
(a1) What is the normal solution for the 2nd 'return' lead? I doubt that both will fit on the pin. I also doubt my capacity to solder the two together!:) I have read that some installations don't actually need both connections to be made, but with my luck...
(b) I am very nervous of dismounting the the existing cartridge and mounting the Decca. I understand that the bearings in the pickup arm are very easily damaged by the loads of fitting the screws. My Linn dealer insisted that the pickup arm had to be removed for the procedure. Is this the case? Or are there steps I can take to minimise the risks?
(c) I no longer have the HFS test LP Is it possible to achieve a satisfactory set up without purchasing a new one?
(d) Any thoughts on cartridge loading?
Any other advice will be heartily welcomed, as long as it does not involve great outlays of cash!
Rgds
Mark
Regarding 3 pin connection, if you look at the pins from left to right.
Left pin red, middle blue and right pin white. I tucked the green cartridge lead up in the headshell.
I have no hum issues with my set up but you may want to try swapping blue with green. Make sure preamp is earthed to tonearm / turntable.
You will need to set correct geometry for your overhang. VTA on mine is set a little down at back if cartridge. Tracking weight 2g.
walpurgis
18-09-2016, 11:07
You won't damage arm bearings just changing a cartridge. Linn dealers were renowned for telling customers scare stories and making things sound harder than they are.
You don't need a test LP. Just use a simple alignment protractor to get it lined up and experiment with tracking force, VTA and bias. I'd start at about 2 grams downforce and play about with it until things sound right. Bias settings are nearly always a matter of trial and error.
Regarding 3 pin connection, if you look at the pins from left to right.
Left pin red, middle blue and right pin white. I tucked the green cartridge lead up in the headshell.
I have no hum issues with my set up but you may want to try swapping blue with green. Make sure preamp is earthed to tonearm / turntable.
You will need to set correct geometry for your overhang. VTA on mine is set a little down at back if cartridge. Tracking weight 2g.
Hi Jimbo... Many thanks...
Is that from top or bottom, front or back? Or looking at my photo?
Rgds
Mark
Hi Jimbo... Many thanks...
Is that from top or bottom, front or back? Or looking at my photo?
Rgds
Mark
It is looking at the 3 pins from the back.
With the cartridge facing you so you can see the underside of the body and the stylus, the connections are as follows:
Left pin - the left-hand channel (white)
Centre pin - the earth or ground (either blue or green) (In the rare event you might have to connect both the blue and green together.)
Right pin - the right-hand channel (red)
Load the cartridge with the normal 'MM' 47kOhm impedance, and set the cartridge up in the arm just as one would do with any other cartridge. Some users favour 33kOhm, others a much higher value, but it is very system dependant and in my experience with six Deccas, 47kOhm is fine.
If the Decca is a Mk.V ('Blue' or 'Grey') with a spherical tip, the VTF is 2 - 3g. If the Mk.VI ('Gold), the VTF is 1.5g. Again in my experience, the best VTA is achieved when the arm is exactly parallel with the record; but there were enormous sample to sample variations, so some experimentation may be necessary.
Wakefield Turntables
19-09-2016, 07:56
Mark,
im in Wakefield if you need any help get in contact, it would be nice to meet and discuss DECCA cargo with someone else locally.
Andy
PS send me a PM if your interested.
With the cartridge facing you so you can see the underside of the body and the stylus, the connections are as follows:
Left pin - the left-hand channel (white)
Centre pin - the earth or ground (either blue or green) (In the rare event you might have to connect both the blue and green together.)
Right pin - the right-hand channel (red)
Load the cartridge with the normal 'MM' 47kOhm impedance, and set the cartridge up in the arm just as one would do with any other cartridge. Some users favour 33kOhm, others a much higher value, but it is very system dependant and in my experience with six Deccas, 47kOhm is fine.
If the Decca is a Mk.V ('Blue' or 'Grey') with a spherical tip, the VTF is 2 - 3g. If the Mk.VI ('Gold), the VTF is 1.5g. Again in my experience, the best VTA is achieved when the arm is exactly parallel with the record; but there were enormous sample to sample variations, so some experimentation may be necessary.
Thanks Barry, a model of clarity...
Rgds
Mark
Short Update:
I removed the existing cartridge without too much drama and had high hopes for the replacement. There was, of course, a flaw...
The plastic cartridge carrier has a stripped thread, so I'm going to have to use nuts and bolts. And I don't have any way of tightening the nuts, so now awaiting the arrival of a set of nut spinners from Amazon...:)
Mark,
im in Wakefield if you need any help get in contact, it would be nice to meet and discuss DECCA cargo with someone else locally.
Andy
PS send me a PM if your interested.
Hi Andy...
You have PM
Rgds
Mark
Well, It's in...
And it's difficult, isn't it? I'm listening to Tortelier playing Bach, and the tone is full of colour and texture, but it's probably 30years or more since I last heard this record. The last real cello experience was isserliss at the Bridgewater Hall, but he wasn't as wiry as this...
I really don't know... There are no grossly obvious distortions (which is a bit of a surprise, to be honest), and the attack is nice, but somehow, it's a little uncomfortable.
I know how long some items take to come on song, so I'm not making any rash judgements, but I'm not, at this moment, convinced this is for me...
Rgds
Mark
Having said all that, the VTA is probably wrong and I need to put additional mats on as there is no arm adjustment that I can see ...
It does sound wonderfully "Vintage"....:lol:
There is no strong centre image. How can that be with only a single return wire?
In fact, that might be the most disturbing aspect at the moment... How can it be "out of phase"?
Are Decca's renowned for their crosstalk levels?
Actually, I think it may suit my partial reflecting loudspeakers quite well. There is a wonderful "ambience" to the sound (and certainly, no lack of bass)...
You do get a feel for the space that the recording was made in..
But when there is a click on the record, It certainly makes itself heard...:)
topoxforddoc
20-09-2016, 15:10
If the bolts have thin heads, you can mount a Decca bracket from below into the headshell. I have done that with a Gold on my Hadcock.
If the bolts have thin heads, you can mount a Decca bracket from below into the headshell. I have done that with a Gold on my Hadcock.
That's what I had to do...:)
Rgds
Mark
Some rumble too, now that I hear it...Cheap turntable , presumably?
It may not be obvious, but I'm actually liking this!:lol:
walpurgis
20-09-2016, 15:54
You do get a feel for the space that the recording was made in..
But when there is a click on the record, It certainly makes itself heard...:)
Try raising the rear of the arm if you can. This may reduce surface noise.
Try raising the rear of the arm if you can. This may reduce surface noise.
I can't, easily, but I thought really, that i should be dropping the arm. not raising it...
walpurgis
20-09-2016, 17:23
I can't, easily, but I thought really, that i should be dropping the arm. not raising it...
I thought you had more than one turntable mat in use? Try removing one. Some may not agree, but I've noticed that when surface noise is prominent, raising the rear of the arm seems to reduce this. But of course you could try lowering it too, just to see what happens. Deccas are funny things when it comes VTA (and everything else :)), they vary from one cartridge to another in what works best.
I love the 'stream of consciousness' review: real time posting of your ongoing impressions.
Stick with it - Deccas need a certain amount of 'pampering'.
Another day, another LP. Weissenberg playing Nocturnes. Although it wasn't highly rated at the time, I always liked it, I thought it gave a convincing rendition of both the piano and the music.
Now I'm listening to the Decca, I'm not so sure. Again, the sound is very 'jangly'. It may be a characteristic of the cartridge, but I'm beginning to think it's maybe mistracking... Now there's a concept I haven't thought of for years and a word I haven't used either!:lol:
I've just had a quick look at the arm and for some reason, I've applied maximum bias. I think I'll back it off a notch...
And then there's the rumble. Or maybe it's a hum artefact from the redundant cartridge lead? Dunno. Not really intrusive, but a noticeable 'pressure on the ears' in quiet passages...
I'm making the classic mistakes of changing several things at once.:(
I've reset the tracking force, reset the bias and put an additional turntable mat on, thus changing at least 3 parameters. I think the cartridge sounds to be mistracking on highly modulated passages (Something not obvious with the solo cello yesterday). But I don't know if this is damage to the record or real mistracking... GRRRRrrr....
I now think I have increased surface noise, so after a comment yesterday, I might remove the extra mat again and see if I can tell.
One of my problems is that i tire after listening intently and get less sure that what I think I hear is real. Also, I'm sure that I get used to aspects of the sound which I might not have tolerated earlier.
I also haven't heard any of these records for many years...:) I could probably do to set up another turntable, just to see if what I'm hearing is the cartridge or the faulty records... What a hassle :)
Life is soooo much easier with Roon...:lol::lol::lol::lol:
walpurgis
21-09-2016, 16:41
Life is soooo much easier with Roon...:lol::lol::lol::lol:
Maybe. But at least you're having fun. :)
I love the 'stream of consciousness' review: real time posting of your ongoing impressions.
Stick with it - Deccas need a certain amount of 'pampering'. Yes, I agree quite entertaining, stop reading every other thread and stick with Mark. What ?, he s not been on for 3 min s
I also found with my gold D a certain tendency to miss track at times, not experienced that with my new line contact stylus though .
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