Linn LP12 Sondek with Valhalla and Cirkus (I think?), Ittok with Linn K18

[Lawrence001]

17975179761797717978Reluctantly selling my Sondek as I purchased it a year ago and have now realised then with a second child I am never going to get round to setting it up properly and play enough of my old vinyl collection to justify keeping it. It has been unused in that time until I just ran it to make sure it works fine. It didn't sound amazing to me as I hoped (but still subjectively better than a CD through my Trichord dac) but that is most likely due to my cheap phono stage, lack of knowledge of how to set it up and possibly eg. a stylus that needs replacing. I'll just keep my RD11/SME 3009 for occasional use (which I have never set up properly either!). It comes with its original box (but not one for the arm) and a spare belt, but I'm not sure of the use of either of these, or the cartridge/stylus.

In terms of spec I have little idea but I believe that the button means it's got a Valhalla PSU and the photo the seller sent me of the underneath with the cover off looked like a cirkus bearing going by internet photos I looked at at the time. I might be able to dig the photos out of my emails if someone knows what to look for. The one below may help someone who knows more than me?? I believe the plinth is fluted afromosia but again I could be wrong.

In terms of condition the slight issues I have seen are a couple of light marks on the lid and a bit of thin plastic peeling off the name badge on top (which may just be a protector, I haven't pulled it to check), a small chip on the corner of the armboard visible in the photo (which I could cover with a marker pen but thought it best left to the buyer), and a few little marks on the veneer commensurate with its age. Overall I'm quite fussy and I'm more than happy with it or I wouldn't have bought it. Serial number is 0722xx. No idea why people don't reveal the full number but there must be a reason so I'm doing the same! From the internet I understand this dates it to 1987-1989.

These seem to go for silly money on ebay especially with the box and an Ittok so I'm going to say I'd like £950 for it. If I am being over ambitious please let me know. It will be cash on collection only from North London not far from either the M25 (Potters Bar exit) or the North Circular. I thought about splitting the arm as I've seen a few ads asking for one or successful sale ads but decided that as I don't know what I'm doing I would probably damage something. If someone wants some extra info or photos please PM and I'll see what I can do but with family commitments it might not be straight away.



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[Lawrence001]

Bump!

[YNWaN]

It is an afromosia plinth and I can also confirm it has a Valhalla speed reg board fitted. The bearing is a little bit more tricky to make out though - rather than being a Cirkus bearing I think it is a late one just before the Cirkus was introduced (black bearing liners but without the oil reservoir bearing extension lip).


100% Analogue

[Lawrence001]

Thanks for the info Mark. When I bought it I found opinions were divided on whether the Cirkus was actually an upgrade so I didn't really mind either way! I'm not the usual obsessive sondek owner it was probably silly to buy it in the first place.

[Colin151]

If the deck is all original and was never taken in for a circkus update than it will have the last pre cirkus bearing with the black outer and inner liner (the best pre cirkus bearing).

As you say opinions vary and I would say that system matching can also be a factor but many (like myself) generally prefer the pre cirkus sound. It's perhpas a little "bigger" in the midbass, a little softer sounding but also more musical and communicative than the more neutral but also more clinical cirkus presentation. I also prefer the valhalla PSU over the lingo PSUs for similar reasons. Many people think the opposite though as they prefer the cleaner cirkus sound with less midbass bloat.

The Ittok LVII is a late one with one piece coutnerwieght. Nice Price. GLWTS

[Colin151]

Just read your post again. The only way to see if it got the cirkus bearing and subchassis is to take the bottom cover off and take a photo of the bearing from underneath. You can't see it from the top. If you do that make sure you take off the outer and inner platters and put a Linn bearing cap on the bearing hole first to stop the oil leaking out.

[Lawrence001]

Thanks for the comments Colin. I think the bearing cap is in the box in the loft. Pleased you think the price is good I hoped it was about right for this spec.

[Colin151]

If you can get a pic of the bearing we can see whether it's has the cirkus update or not. If you can't find the bearing cap you can tilt the TT carefully to access the screws with a screwdriver from underneath without turning the deck upside down. Like I say make sure the outer and inner plate are taken off and nothing falls in the bearing hole. Then take a pic from the underneath while carefully lifting the deck up a bit.

Yes it's a very good price regardless of whether it has the cirkus upgrade or not.

[Lawrence001]

Thanks again for that. First I'll try and find that old photo of the inside.

[Lawrence001]

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[Colin151]

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Unfortuatnely these pics are not conclusive from that angle. Sorry, I forgot to say that you need to photograph the bearing kind of from the side,- in between the metal plate and the valhalla board from the side. The cirkus bearing looks different. It kind of has a bluldge look to the bottom part of it.

[Colin151]

Unfortuatnely these pics are not conclusive from that angle. Sorry, I forgot to say that you need to photograph the bearing kind of from the side,- in between the metal plate and the valhalla board from the side. The cirkus bearing looks different. It kind of has a bulge look to the bottom part of it. Like this: Cirkus on the left. Pre cirkus on the right.

https://imageshack.com/f/pmShwvyUj

The cirkus subchassis is a little thicker and stiffer but you can only really telll the difference if you have the two different subchassis to hand (not installed) and compare them.

[YNWaN]

The Chassis is the same pre and post Cirkus. As suggested, I suspect this is a pre Cirkus bearing but only just. In other words it doesn't have the oil reservoir extended lip or beefed up mounting collar, but does have the black bearing liners. You don't actually have to see the back of the bearing to know if it the Cirkus one or not, you can tell from the top. If the bearing liner is pretty much level with the top of the bearing then it is not a Cirkus bearing.

http://thumbs3.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/pict/262152562122_1.jpg

If it has an extended lip to the top of the bearing then it is a Cirkus one - like this:

http://www.tkcgallery.com/LP12/unpacking/_U3J6947.jpg

it definitely has a Valhalla fitted and that definitely is considered an upgrade over the Basik - a Lingo is better than the Valhalla.

[YNWaN]

In fact, looking closely at your bearing picture I am sure it is not a Cirkus but the version produced immediately prior to it.

[Lawrence001]

Thanks guys this would explain why I couldn't work out if it was a cirkus or not from the photos when I bought it, and the seller didn't know either as he wasn't an expert on all the variants of the sondek he just liked what he had. Sounds like it is a well regarded version by some at least. If there isn't much interest perhaps I'll just wait til I can get it all set up properly myself it might blow me away then. And prices will probably only go in one direction anyway.

[YNWaN]

It's a good deck and the spec is also pretty good.

[Colin151]

Ahh nice one regarding the bearing top. Much easier way to tell.
The circkus subchassis is different compared to the pre-cirkus subchassis BTW, athough it looks pretty much identical to the last epoxy glued pre-cirkus one. The cirkus version is stiffer and also somewhat thicker. Like I say if you have the two types in your hand to can spot the difference.

Lawrence, this is my favourite spec of LP12. Post 70000 serial number with the last and best pre cirkus bearing with the black inner bearing lining. It also has the better epoxy glued pre cirkus subchassis (earlier ones were spot welded) and the plinth is the better later type with corner bracing. The Valhalla PSU is somehwat less neutral and less detailed than the Lingo PSUs but is more musical sounding IMO.

If you install the cirkus kit on a deck like this the sound becomes more neutral but also clinical and it starts to sound less enjoyable and more like a CD player IMO :) The deck loses it's charm and loses the point of being an LP12. IMO In this case you'd be much better going a different route and getting a Direct drive deck that is more neutral and also has other advantages like much better dynamics and better bass performance or getting a different belt drive deck like a Michel Orbe, which is pretty neutral but still very musical and detailed sounding.

GLWTS. Lovely turntable for someone at a great price. (especially compared to Ebay). I have a pre-cirkus Valhalla LP12 of this vintage myself with black Ittok LVII and I love it.

[Lawrence001]

Ahh a black ittok I saw one on the auction site a few years ago and it went for a lot of money.

Sounds like this deck is quite a specific spec which was not around for long so I would never upgrade it myself at the risk of losing its charm if it remains unsold and ends up a keeper.

[Colin151]

Yes indeed. The upgrades after this pre circus spec of LP12 lose the deck's charm and point of the turntable actually being an LP12 in my view, - that being the very natural and realistic timbre of instruments, emotional connection to the music, and sheer enjoyment to listen to, despite the flaws like it not being so neutral in some areas like the midbass and not being as dynamic sounding as some other decks.

The black ittok LVII is indeed rarer and worth more than the silver LVII. No difference at all in sound though. I guess it fetches the price as people like the look of it.

The Silver Ittok LVIII (there are two types) is also reasonably rare and sounds better than the LVII as the construction is improved. I tried the earlier version before and that was a very nice sounding arm but the last version made in Japan with short headshell like the Ekos is supposed to be even better (I've not tried that one yet).

I also prefer Ittok to Ekos mk1 and mk2. Same story again. Although it sounds a bit more dynamic than the Ittok the Ekos is less musical and too forward sounding for my ears.

Perhaps the newer LP12s (with Ekos SE, Radikal, Keel, Kandid, Urika etc) sound nicer than the Lingo/curious generation ones but at over £20K new it will stay a mystery to me....

By the way if the stylus on the K18 is past its best and you want to get a better idea of what the deck is capable of you could try a Audio Technica AT95E stylus, which fits with a slight bit of trimming and works extremely well on the good quality K18 body. Total bargain at only £18.95.

[Lawrence001]

Thanks Colin I was looking for a replacement stylus but couldn't find one. I identified one for the K9 on my RD11 but not this K18. Perhaps it was the same stylus now I think about it. I'll give it a week or two on here and then buy the stylus if there's no interest as the first stage in getting it up and running properly.

[Colin151]

Yes the Linn Moving magnet stylus are not made anymore. The AT95E stylus fits directly on the K9 body and also fits on the K18 body with a slight bit of surgery with a knife. The AT95E stylus has not got as good tip as the originals (it's a bonded elliptical where's the originals were nudes) but it still sounds ridiculously good on these Linn cartridge bodies for price and will also sound miles better than a knackered original Linn stylus. I have a K9 with the AT95E stylus and it's a very enjoyable cartridge and a good step up in detail and clarity from the AT95E's own body (you can buy the whole AT95E cartridge for £24)

[Lawrence001]

I've had an offer I can't refuse from ebay so this is going on shortly..

[karma67]

yam350 by any chance?

[walpurgis]

yam350 by any chance?

:scratch:

[karma67]

hes a linn dealer on ebay,he bought mine and travels around a lot,hence why i asked.

[walpurgis]

hes a linn dealer on ebay,he bought mine and travels around a lot,hence why i asked.

Ah. Now I understand. :)

[Lawrence001]

No I mean an offer on fees, I couldn't have an offer from an ebayer before I list it!

[karma67]

Lol I twigged that after I posted.

[Lawrence001]

Thanks for the heads up anyway PM sent

[Lawrence001]

Now sold. Yam350 did make an offer but it was beaten.