View Full Version : Ortofon MC20s arriving tomorrow - what can I expect
Sound wise I mean, I bought it as a spare to my MC25FL that I bought from Grant, when I bought it the other day I was still waiting to hear back from ZU Audio about the repair to my ZU Denon 103, typically of course I received an email about 30 minutes ago to say it will be posted out to me tonight lol.
The MC20S will be surplus now but I'll have a listen anyway. It's supposed to be in good nick.
walpurgis
07-09-2016, 22:40
It should be rather nice. It'll give the ZU a run for its money! :)
It should be rather nice. It'll give the ZU a run for its money! :)
Sounds promising, it's the super not the supreme. Seller did mention something about the Anniversary edition but I don't think he meant my one, it was just a price comparison to my one as I got a good deal on it along with the arm it was fitted to [emoji6]
I used to have an MC20 with the MCA76 headamp. Ran it for about a year before I discovered the EMT 15 and Denon 103, and then passed it on. A capable performer, but I still hung on to my SL15Es.
The MCA76 headamp, despite a good technical specification, was found lacking.
I probably won't keep it if my ZU comes back ok as I really like it, prefer it to the MC25FL if I was being honest, but the deal I got with the arm and cart together I couldn't refuse.
walpurgis
07-09-2016, 22:52
Sounds promising, it's the super not the supreme.
Ah. You didn't say that. Should still be nice enough though.
That's my old MC25FL by the way. Lovely cartridge!
If you fancy a pleasant surprise at a sensible price, try a Goldring Eroica LX. It comes pretty close to the MC25FL and is just enjoyably musical.
Ah. You didn't say that. Should still be nice enough though.
That's my old MC25FL by the way. Lovely cartridge!
If you fancy a pleasant surprise at a sensible price, try a Goldring Eroica LX. It comes pretty close to the MC25FL and is just enjoyably musical.
Yeah sorry, I did own an Eroica HOMC when I had my Gyrodec, but I forgot that when I sold the deck and it went with it, I thought I had my 1012GX fitted at the time DOH!
Only sold it due to £1100 clutch repair, which 3 weeks later did exactly the same as it wasn't actually faulty, it was the slave cylinder, so I ended up selling my Gyrodec etc at £300-400 loss as we were due to fly out on holiday the week after the clutch died so I needed the money quickly to save breaking into my ISA, not bitter about it all, honestly lol.
walpurgis
07-09-2016, 23:02
Shame about the Gyrodec.
The Eroica LX sounds rather different to the high output version.
hifi_dave
08-09-2016, 09:03
The MC25FL was exciting, the MC 20S was bland. Nothing wrong, just not exciting.
The MC25FL was exciting, the MC 20S was bland. Nothing wrong, just not exciting.
:wah:
just as well it was cheap lol
hifi_dave
08-09-2016, 10:53
There's nowt wrong with it, just a bit flat. The MC25L and SL15E have loads of get up and go.
337alant
08-09-2016, 11:26
I used to have a MC10 super and it was a beautiful cart sweet as a nut
I also have a 25FL which I liked very much till someone snapped the cantilever off :doh:
Any one kow if its worth repairing and if so where?
Alan
walpurgis
08-09-2016, 11:50
Well worth repairing. Good ones are scarce now and it's a lovely MC.
You could ask Goldring, they take on repairs for other makes. http://www.goldring.co.uk/cartridge-repair.htm
Or: Expert Stylus Company, Sound Smith, Schallplettenadeln.de, Northwest Analogue, Nadelspezialist.de, Garrot Brothers and finally Van Den Hul. (there are others)
Have you contacted Ortofon? They may do an exchange service.
Top mc. Only sold it as ive gone back to mm,s
337alant
08-09-2016, 12:15
Well worth repairing. Good ones are scarce now and it's a lovely MC.
You could ask Goldring, they take on repairs for other makes. http://www.goldring.co.uk/cartridge-repair.htm
Or: Expert Stylus Company, Sound Smith, Schallplettenadeln.de, Northwest Analogue, Nadelspezialist.de, Garrot Brothers and finally Van Den Hul. (there are others)
Have you contacted Ortofon? They may do an exchange service.
Thanks Geoff Ill try contacting Ortofon and Goldring
Alan
https://www.google.ca/search?q=ortofon+mc+20+super&rlz=1C1AOHY_en-gbCA708CA708&espv=2&biw=1280&bih=653&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiGuMbkr4DPAhVJlR4KHWZhDMoQ_AUIBigB#tbm= isch&q=ortofon+mc+20+super+blake&imgrc=AdYRaoeS5sJw7M%3A
Attached is an Ortofon MC 20 Super that I had entirely rebuilt by Andy Kim at phonocartridgeretipping.com about a year and a half ago. There was a channel out when I sent it to him and another retipper had attempted a repair on it before unsuccessfully so it needed a complete coil replacement and I wanted to get away from the aluminum cantilver and go to a boron so it now has a boron cantilever and microridge stylus. I think that boron cantilever has turned it into a significantly better cartridge.
It is a much better cartridge than I ever remember it being before and very, very good, although it may be even lower output now-I cannot be totally certain. It is also probably a much better match with my phono stage (Aqvox Phono 2CI) as it is a very low internal impedance design. Aqvox actually markets/sells a couple of cartridges that bear a striking resemblance both physically and with respect to specifications to the MC 20 Super and MC 30 Super (I would bet a lot of money they come out of the Ortofon factory) at pretty substantial prices which is why I was so interested in rebuilding it.
For the previous 5 years I'd used heavily modified Denon 103R's, both potted into new bodies similar to what Zu does: one in an ebony body with a Soundsmith top of the line retip with a ruby cantilever and the OCL stylus, which is very similar to Ortofon's Replicant stylus, and another in an aluminum body with ruby cantilever and standard line contact.
I don't find the Ortofon to lack any get up and go but it has more of a mid-hall presentation and overall more refined sound quality than the modified Denon's I was using which in comparison are almost larger than life and very front row in their presentation.
I think under most circumstances one would find a stock MC 20 Super to sound a bit more polite than the Zu with overall better reproduction of high frequencies and more detail in the midrange; that is the limitation of the Denon conical. The Zu would probably be a more exciting cartridge to listen to in most systems but whether that excitement would be preferable on a long term basis would probably be very subjective among different listeners in different systems.
I really enjoyed my time with the modded Denons but am thrilled with the sound of the Ortofon in my system (although I think a lot of it has to do with cartridge/phono pre synergy as my phono preamp is a bit unusual); so much so that I recently sold off the ebony bodied 103R and picked up another MC 20 Super that is missing a stylus for next to nothing that will eventually go in for the same boron/microridge combination. For what it's worth I preferred the modded Denons to a Koetsu Black that I owned at one time and much prefer the modded MC 20 Super to either of those.
RobbieGong
08-09-2016, 18:35
https://www.google.ca/search?q=ortofon+mc+20+super&rlz=1C1AOHY_en-gbCA708CA708&espv=2&biw=1280&bih=653&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiGuMbkr4DPAhVJlR4KHWZhDMoQ_AUIBigB#tbm= isch&q=ortofon+mc+20+super+blake&imgrc=AdYRaoeS5sJw7M%3A
Attached is an Ortofon MC 20 Super that I had entirely rebuilt by Andy Kim at phonocartridgeretipping.com about a year and a half ago. There was a channel out when I sent it to him and another retipper had attempted a repair on it before unsuccessfully so it needed a complete coil replacement and I wanted to get away from the aluminum cantilver and go to a boron so it now has a boron cantilever and microridge stylus. I think that boron cantilever has turned it into a significantly better cartridge.
It is a much better cartridge than I ever remember it being before and very, very good, although it may be even lower output now-I cannot be totally certain. It is also probably a much better match with my phono stage (Aqvox Phono 2CI) as it is a very low internal impedance design. Aqvox actually markets/sells a couple of cartridges that bear a striking resemblance both physically and with respect to specifications to the MC 20 Super and MC 30 Super (I would bet a lot of money they come out of the Ortofon factory) at pretty substantial prices which is why I was so interested in rebuilding it.
For the previous 5 years I'd used heavily modified Denon 103R's, both potted into new bodies similar to what Zu does: one in an ebony body with a Soundsmith top of the line retip with a ruby cantilever and the OCL stylus, which is very similar to Ortofon's Replicant stylus, and another in an aluminum body with ruby cantilever and standard line contact.
I don't find the Ortofon to lack any get up and go but it has more of a mid-hall presentation and overall more refined sound quality than the modified Denon's I was using which in comparison are almost larger than life and very front row in their presentation.
I think under most circumstances one would find a stock MC 20 Super to sound a bit more polite than the Zu with overall better reproduction of high frequencies and more detail in the midrange; that is the limitation of the Denon conical. The Zu would probably be a more exciting cartridge to listen to in most systems but whether that excitement would be preferable on a long term basis would probably be very subjective among different listeners in different systems.
I really enjoyed my time with the modded Denons but am thrilled with the sound of the Ortofon in my system (although I think a lot of it has to do with cartridge/phono pre synergy as my phono preamp is a bit unusual); so much so that I recently sold off the ebony bodied 103R and picked up another MC 20 Super that is missing a stylus for next to nothing that will eventually go in for the same boron/microridge combination. For what it's worth I preferred the modded Denons to a Koetsu Black that I owned at one time and much prefer the modded MC 20 Super to either of those.
Very nice write up Blake. I'm a very big Ortofon fan myself and it's the cart I always go for. Love the sound and its more even handed, 'accurate' presentation suits me to the ground. The ones I've had always seem to get to the heart of the recording, extracting great detail without jarring my ears in anyway or overemphasising anything - 'accurate', non fatiguing and groovy I'd say. Love em! The 2M Black and my current Quintet Black are case in point - fabulous. Glad you're enjoying yours :)
Thanks for the info Blake, I'll fit it to my spare arm for my 774 and have a listen tomorrow and report back.
Well it has been fitted and........
It's fooked, right channel doesn't work and it hums like mad, tried it in two different wands and same result.
Have emailed seller to see what he intends to do, I don't want to return the arm but will see if he plans to compensate for the faulty cartridge.
What value/refund should I accept, I see on eBay they can sell at anything from £80 to £280?
All that fiddling with no reward, sound familiar ? 😂
Arkless Electronics
09-09-2016, 10:04
I have an MC20S myself which was my main cart for a few years. Very nice indeed! Mine needs a re-tip due to wear but still works... One of these days maybe..
Well there is one good thing to come out of all the cart/wand swapping, my MC25FL that I normally use is sounding better than ever as I went through the setup from the start again.
Ali I still have your Protractor and Damping fluid!
I'll need to get them back to you asap.
Mike.
I tried the mc20 again yesterday just in case a clean of the pins would help. Unfortunately not.
It's also not one of the carts listed on the Ortofon trade in scheme so.......
Anyone wanna buy a dead cart for repair lol.
walpurgis
11-09-2016, 09:46
If it's a dud, you have nothing to lose by looking inside it if you can get it apart. I wouldn't mind betting it one of the small lead out wires from the coil that go to the pins on the back that has failed. They can melt if a meter is used to check continuity on the cartridge. Repairing the break can be done if you are handy at precision work.
If it's a dud, you have nothing to lose by looking inside it if you can get it apart. I wouldn't mind betting it one of the small lead out wires from the coil that go to the pins on the back that has failed. They can melt if a meter is used to check continuity on the cartridge. Repairing the break can be done if you are handy at precision work.
Had thought of trying that, I assume the two screws needs to be removed to get it apart, if so then I'll need to find a very slim headed screwdriver that fits.
Handy at precision work? - that's definitely not me, I'm an ex Fireman, spent 30 years destroying things :lol: :eyebrows:
Ali Tait
11-09-2016, 11:49
Well there is one good thing to come out of all the cart/wand swapping, my MC25FL that I normally use is sounding better than ever as I went through the setup from the start again.
Ali I still have your Protractor and Damping fluid!
I'll need to get them back to you asap.
Mike.
Had forgotten about the damping fluid, was looking for it the other night to top up my arm. :-)
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