View Full Version : Decca Gold MM Phono Cartridge
Infinitely Baffled
06-09-2016, 11:26
I have for sale a Decca Gold in very good condition. That's the elliptical stylus model. It was overhauled (stylus realigned and cart recalibrated) by John Wright earlier this year. His written report (comes with the cartridge) states that stylus wear is "minimal" and since then I have put on maybe thirty hours - probably not even that. Always used in optimal conditions and handled with care. £425 including delivery in the UK.
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g266/garib22/DSC00964_zpsdku1fk1g.jpg (http://s58.photobucket.com/user/garib22/media/DSC00964_zpsdku1fk1g.jpg.html)
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g266/garib22/DSC00966_zpscqsqmk2t.jpg (http://s58.photobucket.com/user/garib22/media/DSC00966_zpscqsqmk2t.jpg.html)
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g266/garib22/DSC00921_zpsxasrqipu.jpg (http://s58.photobucket.com/user/garib22/media/DSC00921_zpsxasrqipu.jpg.html)
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g266/garib22/DSC00972_zpsvbl7dh55.jpg (http://s58.photobucket.com/user/garib22/media/DSC00972_zpsvbl7dh55.jpg.html)
Infinitely Baffled
It's even got the four pin mount too :) You'll miss it I reckon, as the (you've been)Hadcock and Garrard are perfect partners for it.
It's even got the four pin mount too :) You'll miss it I reckon, as the (you've been)Hadcock and Garrard are perfect partners for it.
I agree - you really could end up regretting selling it Gary. It's a wonderful cartridge, and as Dave says, you have it operating in an ideal environment.
How would this be on a Mission 774 arm and does it do Rock ?
Thanks,
Mike.
Infinitely Baffled
06-09-2016, 13:14
I agree - you really could end up regretting selling it Gary. It's a wonderful cartridge, and as Dave says, you have it operating in an ideal environment.
Maybe I am being a bit hasty. I will have a little think about it. In the meantime perhaps I ought to withdraw the cartridge from sale to avoid disappointing anyone.
OK - sale terminated. Sorry to anyone who was interested. Regarding your question, MikeyB, it sounds good to me with rock, but to be fair I don't really play a wide variety of rock styes. Sounds good with Hendrix, but that's pretty much all I can remember trying it with. Lovely on jazz, though, and pretty much anything else I've used it for, so I don't see why it wouldn't do rock. Well worth you keeping your eyes open for one to sample some time. Cheers IB.
Infinitely Baffled
06-09-2016, 13:18
It's even got the four pin mount too :) You'll miss it I reckon, as the (you've been)Hadcock and Garrard are perfect partners for it.
Dave, what's the deal with the four-pin mount? Don't they all have that?
Gary.
walpurgis
06-09-2016, 14:44
As for Deccas and Mission 774 arms. Assuming the 774 is the original first model and fluid damping is used, it's a great match. One I've employed many times and playing rock amongst other types of music.
walpurgis
06-09-2016, 14:47
Dave, what's the deal with the four-pin mount? Don't they all have that?
Gary.
No. Earlier mounts had three pins.
I changed mine over and was terrified to do it as the NAS 'Pod had to come off so the original block could be slid away (the original mounting block is sliced in half leaving just the terminal assembly). The pic I posted elsewhere was with the three pin connector, the spare return headshell wire tucked up and out of the way.
I don't think I ever used a Decca in a 774, but the damping can be adjusted and the arm is so low mass, I doubt you'd need much damping at all (I never dunked my paddles fully in the 774 trough :eyebrows: and just had the tips stroking the fluid :eyebrows: :eyebrows: )
All moot points now cos you buggers convinced him to keep it, you're all off my Xmas card list lol.
I'll need to find somewhere else to spend the wife's hard earned cash 😉
No worries at all about not selling it was only a tentative enquiry, I just fancied trying one 😀
walpurgis
06-09-2016, 17:46
All moot points now cos you buggers convinced him to keep it, you're all off my Xmas card list lol.
:lolsign:
Mike.If you decide to try a Decca in the 774 arm, you should bear in mind that both the arm and Decca mount are threaded. This means that the mount will need the threads drilled out with a 3mm drill so screws can go through and into the arm head block threads. You need screws with fairly shallow heads for this, so as to avoid fouling the cartridge body. Or, drill the head block through so longer bolts can go into the Decca mount. I've done it both ways. It's worth doing, the 774 is one of the best arms for Deccas.
too much mucking about with deccas for my liking tbh. I am not very adventurous lol
walpurgis
06-09-2016, 18:10
too much mucking about with deccas for my liking tbh.
Worth it though. The results speak for themselves.
[emoji38]sign:
Mike.If you decide to try a Decca in the 774 arm, you should bear in mind that both the arm and Decca mount are threaded. This means that the mount will need the threads drilled out with a 3mm drill so screws can go through and into the arm head block threads. You need screws with fairly shallow heads for this, so as to avoid fouling the cartridge body. Or, drill the head block through so longer bolts can go into the Decca mount. I've done it both ways. It's worth doing, the 774 is one of the best arms for Deccas.
I've already drilled out my 774 head to take my Zu Denon as it is threaded too, the Decca sounds interesting, pardon the pun.
too much mucking about with deccas for my liking tbh. I am not very adventurous lol
What do you mean by mucking about? Is it tricky to set up?
walpurgis
07-09-2016, 08:27
What do you mean by mucking about? Is it tricky to set up?
No.
+1 The Decca is as easy to set up as any other cartridge. However a suitable tonearm is a prerequisite.
When it comes to installation or set-up, Deccas are no more fussy than any other cartridge. However, just as with other cartridges, you do need to take time and care when doing this, if you want to achieve optimum conditions.
Where Deccas are fussy is with choice of ancillary equipment: the tonearm and the overload capability of the phonostage.
wasnt slagging it off, just seems like a palaver to me. Only heard 1 and obviously there was something wrong somewhere, as it didnt sound special to me. I accept it might have been me of course
wasnt slagging it off, just seems like a palaver to me. Only heard 1 and obviously there was something wrong somewhere, as it didnt sound special to me. I accept it might have been me of course
Might have been a poor sample Grant. The quality control of Deccas was atrocious, with those that were not rejected having enormous sample-to-sample variation. I know - I have had three samples of the Mk. V: one was sublime, one very good, and the other was definitely 'below par'.
Reliability is always an issue with Deccas, even current London models can come unstuck inside with the best of intentions (I speak from experience) and fail. Once sorted, they do seem to settle down, at least for a good while.
Deccas respond to VTA and tracking force differences almost opposite to anything else. Raise the arm and the treble goes, rather than increasing in edginess. Lower the arm and hf can get scrappy I remember. Variations in playing weight are less with Deccas because of the low vertical compliance I think, so VTA isn't affected by a tenth of a gramme either way. I believe the Gold and possibly Maroon track at around 1.5g where the earlier Blue and possibly the Export (Silver), need slightly more (I have forty year old memories of my Blue needing 1.75 to 2g but certainly no more).
I've used my Tom-Podded Microscanner in the Rega R200 in flat plate Nagaoka shell with no worries at 1.5g, apart from shimmying when settling into the lead-in groove, which could cause snapping of the tie wire eventually if over-done I fear. This is why a *little* damping is needed, to help prevent this - too much kills the sonics in my personal experience. NAS tonearms are unipivots with 'stabilisers' to prevent rocking and although friction laterally is pretty low, it's enough to prevent this *shimmy.*
I rave about these cartridges because they're amongst the closest to emulate what's there in the master recording I've ever heard away from the mega-bucks precious-stone bodied confections from Japan (I was once in awe of the Kiseki Agat Ruby and Lapis Lazuli models for example, which 'did it' without appearing to have hf peaks as some Lyra's appear to have - the Koetsu's are too ripe and coloured the other way for me, or at least were). the Rega Apheta seems to do this fairly well too, although the mk1 model's a bit too 'wild' the other way in the manner of a BPS. Three conventional cartridges I'd love to hear are the Sumiko Blackbird (refined BPS III), the new Apheta model(s) and the new better priced SPU - a fine contrast of 'virtues' I think :)
montesquieu
08-09-2016, 15:15
Something of an acquired taste these (to be polite). I've bought one twice (new production and vintage) and didn't get along with either of them. All a bit rusty nail and blackboard for my liking. Soundstage flat as a pancake, (every instrument in a single row at the front of the stage), always on the edge of mistracking, makes any kit sound like a 60s juke box. (And not in a good way). I have come to the conclusion that I loathe the bloody things.
Something of an acquired taste these (to be polite). I've bought one twice (new production and vintage) and didn't get along with either of them. All a bit rusty nail and blackboard for my liking. Soundstage flat as a pancake, (every instrument in a single row at the front of the stage), always on the edge of mistracking, makes any kit sound like a 60s juke box. (And not in a good way). I have come to the conclusion that I loathe the bloody things.
If you heard mine Tom you would be scratching your head as to why your experiences were as you described.:)
montesquieu
08-09-2016, 15:36
If you heard mine Tom you would be scratching your head as to why your experiences were as you described.:)
My approach for some years how has been high mass tonearms with gimballed bearings (no dampling required generally), low to very low compliance cartridges to match, and a healthy disrespect for the low end of the VTF scale - I typically track SPUs at between 4g and 5g.
The Deccas from what I can gather are at the other end of the scale - low mass, damped tonearms, unipivots and so on. I'm sure like anything else they improve if you use them properly ... I am aware that I probably haven't given them a fair crack in this regard. But even in their better moments I really wasn't able to 'get' what all the fuss is about ....
My approach for some years how has been high mass tonearms with gimballed bearings (no dampling required generally), low to very low compliance cartridges to match, and a healthy disrespect for the low end of the VTF scale - I typically track SPUs at between 4g and 5g.
The Deccas from what I can gather are at the other end of the scale - low mass, damped tonearms, unipivots and so on. I'm sure like anything else they improve if you use them properly ... I am aware that I probably haven't given them a fair crack in this regard. But even in their better moments I really wasn't able to 'get' what all the fuss is about ....
I think I have the perfect tonearm match for the Decca so I presume this is why I have acquired such great results.
I certainly don't think the Decca is the ultimate cartridge by any means but when they do their thing they have a magical ability to recreate very natural super clear vocals at a level I have never heard. On well mastered recordings they are stunning and have a speed and dynamic ability that is unmatched in my experience.
If I compare them to MC cartridges in general they have a more solid feel and an energy that has a more direct contact to the recording. MC tend to float their own version of the recording with great nuances and detail but they still cannot focus the precision of the recording like a Decca. From my experience using the Decca I would say all cartridges blurr the recording slightly in comparison almost as if they are slightly out of focus.
The lack of a rubber suspension really does make a difference to the focus a Decca can achieve, as I have said before it is like focusing a camera where the subject becomes crisp and clear. ALL other cartridges I have heard sound like they don't recreate the recording as precisely.
Now I do think other cartridges can create a bigger soundstage and dig up more detail and are fully bodied. Indeed they may have many abilities a Decca cannot achieve but what the Decca can do is unique and very convincing in its own slightly narrow envelope. It is a compromise in some areas but I think all cartridges are. What it does do well however is very convincing and quite exceptional.
There are many myths surrounding the Decca and plenty of bullshit but I hope I am telling it as it is. I will be inviting a few folk round to hear the Decca experience and maybe they will concour with me?
I have had no issues setting it up, no tracking issues, no sibilance or distortion once the anti skate was dialled in correctly. In fact I have found it a very smooth sounding cartridge and anything but a nail on a blackboard.
The negatives I perceive are slightly small soundstage, and slight lack of detail which maybe remedied with a line contact stylus?
paulf-2007
08-09-2016, 20:25
too much mucking about with deccas for my liking tbh. I am not very adventurous lol+1 I borrowed jims super gold and it got overexcited by Roy Orbison and mistracked something awful, a bit of putty sorted it but it looked horrible and Heath Robinson although it sounded nice, I couldn't see me parting £827 for one. I scratched that itch along with a Denon 103 that surprised me in a good way and lately a Shure Ultra 500 in a Martin Bastin body, sounds bloody lovely, was listening to Beatles Abbey Road today and it's the best I've heard it.
+1 I borrowed jims super gold and it got overexcited by Roy Orbison and mistracked something awful, a bit of putty sorted it but it looked horrible and Heath Robinson although it sounded nice, I couldn't see me parting £827 for one. I scratched that itch along with a Denon 103 that surprised me in a good way and lately a Shure Ultra 500 in a Martin Bastin body, sounds bloody lovely, was listening to Beatles Abbey Road today and it's the best I've heard it.
Nice cartridge that Shure Ultra 500 +1:thumbsup:
Infinitely Baffled
14-09-2016, 13:45
Jazid, can you contact me please? I have PM.d you without success. Cheers. Gary.
Something of an acquired taste these (to be polite). I've bought one twice (new production and vintage) and didn't get along with either of them. All a bit rusty nail and blackboard for my liking. Soundstage flat as a pancake, (every instrument in a single row at the front of the stage), always on the edge of mistracking, makes any kit sound like a 60s juke box. (And not in a good way). I have come to the conclusion that I loathe the bloody things.
That sounds like either a poor sample of a Decca, or one that was poorly installed and set up. Deccas are not 'fit and forget'. Whilst they don't need any extra care in setting up (all cartridges should have care taken during set up), they do need pampering: a tone arm that can cope with the enormous excess energy put ito them; a phonostage that can cope with the very rapid rise time; and finally, owing to the very small clearance between the underside of the cartridge and the record, one's records must be flat and warp-free.
Given a good sample of a Decca, which is allowed to operate in an optimum environment, Deccas 'do something' that no other cartridge can do in getting to the 'soul' of the recording.
Flat soundstage, poor mistracking, 'nails scraped on a blackboard'? Not with any Decca I have owned, once they have been installed and used with care.
montesquieu
14-09-2016, 23:41
Given a good sample of a Decca, which is allowed to operate in an optimum environment, Deccas 'do something' that no other cartridge can do in getting to the 'soul' of the recording.
People keep telling me this. That's why I bought one. Twice. I've just heard no evidence with my own ears that it's true.
I prize timbre and tone quality hugely over 'dynamics'. I prefer musicality to 'punch'. Maybe it's a taste thing. I've come to the conclusion I'm not the biggest fan of Lyras either (and I 've owned quite a few of those too - Clavis, Helicon, Dorian, Dorian Mono, Argo i) - the more high end you go the more they sound like hifi and the less like music.
The Deccas I owned sounded like music being reproduced, not very well.
People keep telling me this. That's why I bought one. Twice. I've just heard no evidence with my own ears that it's true.
I prize timbre and tone quality hugely over 'dynamics'. I prefer musicality to 'punch'. Maybe it's a taste thing. I've come to the conclusion I'm not the biggest fan of Lyras either (and I 've owned quite a few of those too - Clavis, Helicon, Dorian, Dorian Mono, Argo i) - the more high end you go the more they sound like hifi and the less like music.
The Deccas I owned sounded like music being reproduced, not very well.
Possibly explains your dislike of Deccas. If the portrayal of rhythm and dynamics is not important, nor the superb articulation of lyrics, then the Deccas are not for you. If you prefer tonal accuracy and a 'polite' top end, then Deccas are not for you.
So I can understand where you're coming from. But I cannot agree that Deccas have no soundstage at all, or one that is flat.
People keep telling me this. That's why I bought one. Twice. I've just heard no evidence with my own ears that it's true.
I prize timbre and tone quality hugely over 'dynamics'. I prefer musicality to 'punch'. Maybe it's a taste thing. I've come to the conclusion I'm not the biggest fan of Lyras either (and I 've owned quite a few of those too - Clavis, Helicon, Dorian, Dorian Mono, Argo i) - the more high end you go the more they sound like hifi and the less like music.
The Deccas I owned sounded like music being reproduced, not very well.
Did you try a London Jubilee or a London Reference?
Something of an acquired taste these (to be polite). I've bought one twice (new production and vintage) and didn't get along with either of them. All a bit rusty nail and blackboard for my liking. Soundstage flat as a pancake, (every instrument in a single row at the front of the stage), always on the edge of mistracking, makes any kit sound like a 60s juke box. (And not in a good way). I have come to the conclusion that I loathe the bloody things.
This sounds so much like my memories of 35-40 years ago, it's almost comical! Just the last phase to have modern issue with... I'm going to have another try with my original purchase and see if anything has changed...
Can someone either enforce the "no sales thread-crapping" rule, or move this to the analogue art section?
Is this even for sale?
:)
Sent from my GT-I9195 using Tapatalk
Can someone either enforce the "no sales thread-crapping" rule, or move this to the analogue art section?
Is this even for sale?
:)
Sent from my GT-I9195 using Tapatalk
Seller has already started a new for sale thread [emoji6]
I wonder if that will turn into discussion as well?
montesquieu
18-09-2016, 17:47
Can someone either enforce the "no sales thread-crapping" rule, or move this to the analogue art section?
Is this even for sale?
:)
Sent from my GT-I9195 using Tapatalk
it was withdrawn at which point the chat started
walpurgis
18-09-2016, 18:55
I wonder if that will turn into discussion as well?
It's just a bit of chat on the tail end of a defunct sales thread. No harm there. If it's moved the context of the thread origin will be wrong.
It's just a bit of chat on the tail end of a defunct sales thread.
Yup. A DEFUNCT sales thread. Not exactly sure what you're moaning about, Robert.
Marco.
Infinitely Baffled
18-09-2016, 19:54
Well, for a start, it keeps bumping up above my REAL sales thread, so the chances of anyone even spotting that one are much reduced. No harm in the chat, obviously, but it would be helpful (to me) if it could be moved elsewhere.
Cheers
IB.
Moved to Analogue Art, with a revised title: "The Decca Gold MM Phono Cartidge". (Though to be pedantic, it is not an MM cartridge but is best described as 'moving iron'.)
Yup. A DEFUNCT sales thread. Not exactly sure what you're moaning about, Robert.
Marco.
I spent a couple of minutes reading through it to try and see if it was back on sale before realising it wad just people chatting about whether they liked them, or not...
I wasn't really moaning though Marco, but I thought you would surely wish that your rules be followed?
;)
Guys,
This room is SOLELY for members to sell their wares. Fundamentally, that is its only purpose, and for those who are genuinely interested in buying items advertised for sale (or making serious enquiries), to post comments, if necessary.
It is NOT, under any circumstances, for people to 'thread crap', by discrediting or undermining (intentionally or not) the validity or functionality of the products being advertised, or to critically 'challenge' them in any way, or the prices being charged.
Should anyone consider that the latter is necessary, then a separate thread should be started in the appropriate section in the main areas of the forum (or a PM directed to the trade member in question), where constructive criticism of any products or services can then be carried out in the appropriate manner. Anyone not complying with this rule may be banned for a week (at the discretion of the forum owner), without further warning.
Marco.
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