Suitable amplifier/receiver for Thorens td150/shure v15 typeii under £300?

[Simon75]

Hi there,
I've just purchased (awaiting arrival) a Thorens td 150 with a Shure v15 type ii cartridge attached. I am needing advice for suitable amplifiers/receivers under £300 to get it sounding it's best. So for I've looked at the 1970s pioneer receivers and integrated amplifiers. Also considering marantz of the era. Came across a Harman Kardon reciever from the 70s that might do the job. Or how about a more recent Audiolab integrated? Sansui? Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

[Arkless Electronics]

It will work with any amplifier with a phono input so we will need more info as to what you are looking for... vintage 70's I guess?

[Simon75]

Yeah at the moment I am thinking the 70s vintage would offer the best sound at this price I am able to afford. Currently looking at a Harman Karman 430 receiver that is going for a good price. Also looking at a audiolab 8000.

[DSJR]

Quad 33/303 is ideal, especially after fettling (no need for bodging, just carefully working with what's there) and somewhere out there, is a recommendation for the V15 II to get a flat response with cap changes on the 33's phono matching board.

Loads of other choices and some quite recent (Rega Brio R's for example go used for around £300 these days), but bare in mind the severe mid hf suck-out in the V15 T2 response, heard as 'distant' cymbal-work rather than 'dullness' as such if mine is anything to go by.

[walpurgis]

Quad 33/303 is ideal, especially after fettling (no need for bodging, just carefully working with what's there) and somewhere out there, is a recommendation for the V15 II to get a flat response with cap changes on the 33's phono matching board.

Loads of other choices and some quite recent (Rega Brio R's for example go used for around £300 these days), but bare in mind the severe mid hf suck-out in the V15 T2 response, heard as 'distant' cymbal-work rather than 'dullness' as such if mine is anything to go by.

Yeah I'd go along with that.

The Quad 33/303 would certainly appeal to me more than an Audiolab 8000A anyway.

[Arkless Electronics]

Just to confuse I'm afraid my advice is the opposite to the above! Don't but a Quad 33/303 cos the pre amp sucks big time! And it's unreliable to boot (:popcorn:. ) An Audiolab 8000A would be a sound choice... as would many other makes and models

[Simon75]

I've been looking out for a Rega Brio R, they don't seem to come along too often and always sell for a decent price. Not sure what you're getting at with regards the v15? Can contemporary amps manage it? I suspect I will be looking at other cartridge options soon enough. With regards to the Quad 303/33 I suspect it would be a definite no from my other half.

[topoxforddoc]

How about a Rogers A75 or A100? Very nice amps and good phono stages too.

[Arkless Electronics]

How about a Rogers A75 or A100? Very nice amps and good phono stages too.

Good shout. In the same vein maybe a Sugden A48... Two RADICALLY different styling options are available depending if MkI or MkII as well for WAF

[DSJR]

Just to confuse I'm afraid my advice is the opposite to the above! Don't but a Quad 33/303 cos the pre amp sucks big time! And it's unreliable to boot (:popcorn:. )

Since I'm accused of this, I'm going to call it Jez and claim you probably have very old memories and haven't followed what can be done (later and in my case, via the excellent dada update kit) to a 33 without replacing all the boards a la Net Audio. Mine certainly doesn't 'suck' at all in comparison with a passive although very low bass is lightened, despite the C400 change to 1uF and this slight low bass lightening is perfect for the 303, which goes off at sub-terrainian frequencies, I think due to the capacitor loading. All old gear will probably need some work and the 33 needs more than most to fully update it, but I've been genuinely surprised how my 33 has come up (I say mine, it's on permanent loan at present) with some carefully considered updates, the pair sound enchanting together and THEY HOLD THEIR VALUE better than most. Sure, preamp design came on a long way after the 80's, let alone the mid 60's when the 33 (and basic single rail Naim preamp designs of old) were conceived, but Quad did the best they could with what was available back then and this basic circuit can be usefully tweaked to be far less invasive.

I think at present, I'd rather have an updated Quad 33 to an early DIN equipped 34, which can sound dynamically 'foggy' to me. The later 34 and 44 were rather more open to the source I remember.

Sorry Jez and all, I'm just looking at a vintage source the OP has and thinking of a 'period' amp to help get the best out of it that doesn't reproduce the flaws instead of the music. I can get half decent sounds from an 8000A, but there's still a touch of 'grain' there I remember, fixed in the later 8000S which lacks a phono stage, so defeats the task at hand.

Loads of other good 80's UK made amps for around £300. Onyx was good back then, Naim Nait 1 and 2's are fetching stupid money now and quite outside their ability set imo, but would make a good financial investment when their lack of power and terminal soft-clipping compression got annoying - in my opinion. Cyrus 2 but only with PSX as it has a half decent phono stage and the leaner tones would suit the Shure.

[Barry]

Since I'm accused of this, I'm going to call it Jez and claim you probably have very old memories and haven't followed what can be done (later and in my case, via the excellent dada update kit) to a 33 without replacing all the boards a la Net Audio. Mine certainly doesn't 'suck' at all in comparison with a passive although very low bass is lightened, despite the C400 change to 1uF and this slight low bass lightening is perfect for the 303, which goes off at sub-terrainian frequencies, I think due to the capacitor loading. All old gear will probably need some work and the 33 needs more than most to fully update it, but I've been genuinely surprised how my 33 has come up (I say mine, it's on permanent loan at present) with some carefully considered updates, the pair sound enchanting together and THEY HOLD THEIR VALUE better than most. Sure, preamp design came on a long way after the 80's, let alone the mid 60's when the 33 (and basic single rail Naim preamp designs of old) were conceived, but Quad did the best they could with what was available back then and this basic circuit can be usefully tweaked to be far less invasive.

I think at present, I'd rather have an updated Quad 33 to an early DIN equipped 34, which can sound dynamically 'foggy' to me. The later 34 and 44 were rather more open to the source I remember.

Sorry Jez and all, I'm just looking at a vintage source the OP has and thinking of a 'period' amp to help get the best out of it that doesn't reproduce the flaws instead of the music. I can get half decent sounds from an 8000A, but there's still a touch of 'grain' there I remember, fixed in the later 8000S which lacks a phono stage, so defeats the task at hand.

Loads of other good 80's UK made amps for around £300. Onyx was good back then, Naim Nait 1 and 2's are fetching stupid money now and quite outside their ability set imo, but would make a good financial investment when their lack of power and terminal soft-clipping compression got annoying - in my opinion.

Good post Dave. :)

[Arkless Electronics]

Since I'm accused of this, I'm going to call it Jez and claim you probably have very old memories and haven't followed what can be done (later and in my case, via the excellent dada update kit) to a 33 without replacing all the boards a la Net Audio. Mine certainly doesn't 'suck' at all in comparison with a passive although very low bass is lightened, despite the C400 change to 1uF and this slight low bass lightening is perfect for the 303, which goes off at sub-terrainian frequencies, I think due to the capacitor loading. All old gear will probably need some work and the 33 needs more than most to fully update it, but I've been genuinely surprised how my 33 has come up (I say mine, it's on permanent loan at present) with some carefully considered updates, the pair sound enchanting together and THEY HOLD THEIR VALUE better than most. Sure, preamp design came on a long way after the 80's, let alone the mid 60's when the 33 (and basic single rail Naim preamp designs of old) were conceived, but Quad did the best they could with what was available back then and this basic circuit can be usefully tweaked to be far less invasive.

I think at present, I'd rather have an updated Quad 33 to an early DIN equipped 34, which can sound dynamically 'foggy' to me. The later 34 and 44 were rather more open to the source I remember.

Sorry Jez and all, I'm just looking at a vintage source the OP has and thinking of a 'period' amp to help get the best out of it that doesn't reproduce the flaws instead of the music. I can get half decent sounds from an 8000A, but there's still a touch of 'grain' there I remember, fixed in the later 8000S which lacks a phono stage, so defeats the task at hand.

Loads of other good 80's UK made amps for around £300. Onyx was good back then, Naim Nait 1 and 2's are fetching stupid money now and quite outside their ability set imo, but would make a good financial investment when their lack of power and terminal soft-clipping compression got annoying - in my opinion. Cyrus 2 but only with PSX as it has a half decent phono stage and the leaner tones would suit the Shure.

It's unlikely he OP wants to start messing with mods and upgrades to a 33 and I 100% stand by what I said. It sucks big time and is highly unreliable. The only place for a standard 33 is as an objet d'art or a door stop.... Such fun having to fiddle with the plug in boards every few hours to stop them crackling etc...
Also the OP has already ruled out 33/303 on WAF grounds...

[Simon75]

Thanks for the advice, it's given me plenty of food for thought. Currently considering the rotel ra610, the price is appealing and the phono stage gets decent reports.

[DSJR]

Very old and may be crossover distortion prone (audible distortion, this) if memory serves. Worth getting a good engineer to look it over and re-set the quiescent currents if necessary. Don't dismiss an equivalent period Yamaha CA600 (800's and 1000's are even better) as they sound less strained I recall.

[Simon75]

That's interesting you mention the Yamaha CAs, I was just looking at them this morning, I may well go with that option. Looks like they would retain their value if I opted for something different later down the line.

[Barry]

It's unlikely he OP wants to start messing with mods and upgrades to a 33 and I 100% stand by what I said. It sucks big time and is highly unreliable. The only place for a standard 33 is as an objet d'art or a door stop.... Such fun having to fiddle with the plug in boards every few hours to stop them crackling etc...
Also the OP has already ruled out 33/303 on WAF grounds...

Really? Everyone I know who has used one (including myself) has never complained of this. Highly unreliable? If they were, I doubt the BBC would use them.

[Simon75]

Looks like a Yamaha ca410 is going for a reasonable price. Any experience of this model?

[Arkless Electronics]

Really? Everyone I know who has used one (including myself) has never complained of this. Highly unreliable? If they were, I doubt the BBC would use them.

That's how I found them to be and several friends who owned them. Not unreliable in terms of breaking down altogether but in terms of crackles and pops due to dirt on edge connectors etc and therefore regularly needing a thump or a play with the plug in boards to re seat them.
I love their styling and they are par for the course with most other late 60's pre amps but I don't regard them as good enough for use in a modern hi fi system by some margin... Unless of course one is trying to get a retro sound... soft, diffuse, rounded off and lacking at frequency extremes etc.

[Simon75]

Or the Yamaha ca610?

[Barry]

That's how I found them to be and several friends who owned them. Not unreliable in terms of breaking down altogether but in terms of crackles and pops due to dirt on edge connectors etc and therefore regularly needing a thump or a play with the plug in boards to re seat them.
I love their styling and they are par for the course with most other late 60's pre amps but I don't regard them as good enough for use in a modern hi fi system by some margin... Unless of course one is trying to get a retro sound... soft, diffuse, rounded off and lacking at frequency extremes etc.

Are you talking about the internal boards or the two user-changeable tape and disc input boards? Once fitted the internal boards make a good connection and there should be ant problems with dirt etc.. It is possible that the edge connections of the two input sensitivity/impedance matching boards might become dirty through poor handling, but as I say I have never experienced any problems there - when I have had to change the board, the contact area clearly showed witness marks where it had securely mated with the socket.

Implementing the NET or Dada upgrades to the 33 improves the performance to one commensurate with a "modern hi fi system".

[Arkless Electronics]

Are you talking about the internal boards or the two user-changeable tape and disc input boards? Once fitted the internal boards make a good connection and there should be ant problems with dirt etc.. It is possible that the edge connections of the two input sensitivity/impedance matching boards might become dirty through poor handling, but as I say I have never experienced any problems there - when I have had to change the board, the contact area clearly showed witness marks where it had securely mated with the socket.

Implementing the NET or Dada upgrades to the 33 improves the performance to one commensurate with a "modern hi fi system".

Those are the ones and I've personally witnessed the problems with them.

Yes replacement boards can make it sound perfectly decent. There were some available about 25 years ago I recall and they also worked very well and transformed the performance.

[DSJR]

Looks like a Yamaha ca410 is going for a reasonable price. Any experience of this model?

Not very powerful or the CA400 which preceded it (nicer switches again), but it's not a bad little amp at all from memory. Looking at Rotel, an 820BX or similar would be better than both methinks...

[DSJR]

To Jez and Barry (hifi dave already knows this tale ;) )


I have and love a rebuilt 303 and bought some years ago a later 33 in good order to go with it. The sound of the 303 is musical and slightly 'lush' into some speakers, but not badly so with the stuff I use here. I decided to do the dada mods to the 33 and went with the supply updates, cap replacements and reduced the line stage gain, leaving the phono stage alone apart from the necessary supply voltage adjustment. I played the CD source into the tape input and further adjusted the levels with the screw adjustments Quad provided - easy peasy!

I was without the amp for a few years while it slept in storage, but got it back into my greedy paws earlier this year. Dada are now offering a full transistor change too (BC550's) and I dutifully did this on all the plug-in boards, although one output board suffered broken lifting solder track. All was well apart from a nasty crackling through the speakers on ONE channel, which was traced to one of the output boards, the one where the track had lifted :( try as I may, I've not been able to find what's wrong. I've replaced all the caps again on this board, together with all the transistors twice (they're cheap enough) and the bloody thing still won't play ball :( In the meantime, I've bought a fresh pair of boards, updated them with no issues at all (I left the output gain intact on this one and just re-adjusted the screw links on the tape board) - the tape input is cut down now and re-amplified which is silly really, but the phono stage gain isn't affected by the reduced output gain as it was before - are you lot still with me here and do you still care?

This tale of woe just goes to show that if you're unlucky, or a bodger like me, then reliability issues on the 33 do occur, Mine also suffered noisy switches due to its years sleeping, but that was easily fixed. Oh, the buttons now sometimes fly off when their status is changed, but that was usual on new ones sometimes :D

So you see, if the bloody 33 really was a pile of crap, I wouldn't have gone to all this trouble, but for me, it's worth it, plus the extra expense of two replacement used output boards. The sound is just a little bass-light, but the rest is just fine and it's perfect for the 303 as said before and if you're careful with the de-soldering tool, I don't see that a competent solderer couldn't update it to such a fine standard.

If mods want to make a separate thread for this, please do. Apologies for sharing, but this side of things can be a huge part of this hobby of ours and since new gear isn't selling much in the UK these days, the vintage market seems to be all that's left keeping the hobby afloat sadly...

[PaulStewart]

It's unlikely he OP wants to start messing with mods and upgrades to a 33 and I 100% stand by what I said. It sucks big time and is highly unreliable. The only place for a standard 33 is as an objet d'art or a door stop.... Such fun having to fiddle with the plug in boards every few hours to stop them crackling etc...
Also the OP has already ruled out 33/303 on WAF grounds...


Are you talking about the internal boards or the two user-changeable tape and disc input boards? Once fitted the internal boards make a good connection and there should be ant problems with dirt etc.. It is possible that the edge connections of the two input sensitivity/impedance matching boards might become dirty through poor handling, but as I say I have never experienced any problems there - when I have had to change the board, the contact area clearly showed witness marks where it had securely mated with the socket.

Implementing the NET or Dada upgrades to the 33 improves the performance to one commensurate with a "modern hi fi system".


Those are the ones and I've personally witnessed the problems with them.

Yes replacement boards can make it sound perfectly decent. There were some available about 25 years ago I recall and they also worked very well and transformed the performance.

Recently I help an old chap replace his TD124, that had been serviced by Loricraft, in a console he had bought with a 33/303/ESL57 set up in about 1967. The system needed a service for the amplification, but after over 40 years, the boards in the 33 had not caused any crackle. The problem was the Mono?streo switches had given up the ghost and no spares were available. A good condition replacement was obtained and is working well in the system. The original 33 I have bypassed all those switches and it still is going strong, with no crackles from the matching boards. Maybe it's the air where you live Jez :lol:

[Simon75]

Thanks for that Dave. The Rotel 820BX appears to be reasonably priced and the phono stage gets positive reviews from the limited information I can find. Is the phono stage particularly impressive?

[Arkless Electronics]

Ah yes the RA820bx. good little budget amp that was honest and punched above its weight. Still a good starter amp today from what I remember of its performance at the time... I remember trying one with Spendor SP1's for a laugh and it carried it off!

[Simon75]

I've currently got a teac ah300 on the go, I will see how the turntable gets on with it and may just consider going down the separate phono stage path if it's phono input is not up to much.

[walpurgis]

Ah yes the RA820bx. good little budget amp that was honest and punched above its weight. Still a good starter amp today from what I remember of its performance at the time... I remember trying one with Spendor SP1's for a laugh and it carried it off!

Yes I agree. Had one myself and it was surprisingly decent.

[DSJR]

Actually, I keep forgetting about the little TEAC 300 and 500 amps from twenty years ago. Clean sounding I remember, the whole systems being very popular and deservedly so in my opinion. I didn't think many came along on their own as the CD player and tuner are often in tow too :)

[Simon75]

Yeah I bought all three second hand from a pal about 7 years ago. The amp drives a couple of wharfdale diamond 10.1 speakers veryy well. In view of upgrading my turntable I am thinking it's time to try something a bit higher up the chain.