Scalford Hall Show 7th March 2010

[chris@panteg]

Hi Chris,

Nice pics... Looks like you got to our room late though, from the type of kit we were demonstating shown in the picture ;)

I'm not sure if you got a chance to hear the Techy or not...

Were we introduced to each other? If so, I apologise, as I can't remember - everything was just a blur yesterday! I only managed to get out my room once, so missed most of the rest of the show.

Anyway, I'm just up and still shattered from yesterday, so will comment more later - suffice to say though that it was nice meeting everyone and I thought we did pretty well with our system.

Andre, sorry I never got a chance to buy you a beer - things were just so hectic, but perhaps I can make up for that if your good lady and you would like to come and visit sometime in North Wales? :cool:

Ok I'm off to have some breakfast now, try to wake up and get my head together!

Laters,
Marco.

Hi Marco

Yes i did shake your hand ' but i thought you looked like a man who needed his bed ! so i decided to be as discreet as i could .

I did hear your techie ' sounded lovely , i also liked the Bel Canto ' very tasty.

The system i enjoyed the most though was Pete's I should coco's with Guy's unusual Horn's not everyone's cup of tea i know but its the sort of system most of us cannot afford or even accommodate ' for me its the free breathing quality and staggering dynamic range it offers .

A good day out i arrived later than planned so missed a few systems but oh well .

[baron]

Great show, :rave:

The AOS room was very good, I thought it sounded better in the afternoon.
Well done to all involved.:mex:

It was nice to see Marco and Nick again. Nicks African folk music was something else;).

Anyway Mrs Baron took some photos. Heres the link.
http://http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/baron103/ScalfordHallShow7thMarch201# (http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/baron103/ScalfordHallShow7thMarch201#)

[Alex_UK]

Anyway Mrs Baron took some photos. Heres the link.
http://http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/baron103/ScalfordHallShow7thMarch201# (http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/baron103/ScalfordHallShow7thMarch201#)

Well done Mrs Baron - awesome!

[Jonboy]

Evening all, long day but i really enjoyed it, pleasure to meet those of you i did an apologys to those i didn't, perhaps next time eh, it was worth the trip to pick up my new Tubehunter Williams Dunc dac that i new a few of you wanted to take home as well, many thanks to you Duncan, i have now got it up and running it certainly has taken my system to another level.

I loved some of the systems but had to make a few hasty exits on others, the AOS room was a revaltion though i wished i had spent more time with you guys, there was just too much so see and do,

I will try to write a bit more on the show when i'm not so tired and hopefully one of my passengers will come up with a report as well.

[pure sound]

Another fun weekend. When I could escape from helping out Mr Coco, I enjoyed the AoS room, all of the LV based systems, Rockmeister's Harbeths with Palmer TT & Luxman amp, the Bastanis, the Geedes Nathans, Steve 57's OB's & plenty of other rooms. Once again, it was the sheer variety of systems on show that leaves conventional events behind. It seemed busy & upbeat and has a great vibe. Roll on next year.

[Beechwoods]

It was nice to see Marco and Nick again. Nicks African folk music was something else;).

I'm glad you enjoyed it! Not hi-fi show demo stuff suggested Marco, but what would he know?!

Here's a link (http://www.baka.co.uk/shop/pages/albums/real/venoluma.ram) to a Real Player sample of the track... Venolouma off Heart Of The Forest, by the Baka Forest People, on Rykodisc.

[baron]

Thanks Nick :)

[ff1d1l]

Hi All

Just to say I really enjoyed the show, and thanks to all who organised and worked so hard exhibiting.

Standout systems for me were the AOS room, Valveblokes wonderful sounding Quad II driven jr149's, Dr Rock's Apogee Calipers, Beobloke's Ferrographs (and turntable display....drool!) and last but not least the I should coco Horn system - this was, playing vinyl of Alison Krause Band's "Boy who wouldn't Hoe Corn" the best sound I heard at the show.

Very nice to chat with exibitors, and to meet and have a few words with Marco and others in the AOS room.

[Rare Bird]

Hi All

Just to say I really enjoyed the show, and thanks to all who organised and worked so hard exhibiting.

Standout systems for me were the AOS room, Valveblokes wonderful sounding Quad II driven jr149's, Dr Rock's Apogee Calipers, Beobloke's Ferrographs (and turntable display....drool!) and last but not least the I should coco Horn system - this was, playing vinyl of Alison Krause Band's "Boy who wouldn't Hoe Corn" the best sound I heard at the show.

Very nice to chat with exibitors, and to meet and have a few words with Marco and others in the AOS room.

I didnt get chance to hear the Quad II/JR149, Gordon @ Stamford Audio told me how good they were :doh:...The Ferrograph 'S1' were one of the main reason i visited the show, i liked em but the tweeter irritated me, i don't know what he'd done to em apart from the crossover! I still give top marks out to the Living Voice/Kuzma/Audionote/ARC etc system..

[Marco]

Hi Jerry,


I liked the AOS room - impressive ability to move air those Lockwoods! - but, sorry, no - not for classical - the traditional Tannoy dual concentric wispy-treble and upper mids was still much in evidence on strings and affected the tonality of pretty much everything.


Nice one, mate. I'm glad you enjoyed it, apart from the "wispy-treble" of the Tannoys :eyebrows:

I think I know where you're coming from with that; it's probably an artefact of the horn tweeter... I don't hear it like you do, so it doesn't bother me.

What I was meaning before when we'd talked about this was that with the Lockwoods (at least to my ears anyway) there is no midrange 'honk' or peaky nature to the upper and mid frequencies which I often hear with other Tannoys, where things can get distinctly shouty and unpleasant with some material.

To my ears (and seemingly also those of most others who were at the show) the Lockwoods didn't do that and were just powerful and weighty, dynamic, and very entertaining to listen to with a wide range of music. Of course, YMMV :)

Incidentally, where were you seated in the room when you were listening - near the front or the back? I ask because the listening angle in order to hear Tannoy DCs properly is critical.


A pretty stunning system apart from that though.


Thanks for that. We have had loads of positive comments not only here, but on Wigwam and also in person from people at Scalford, where many said it was their 'best sound of the show' :cool:


Interestingly (I thought!) the Tannoy HPDs in sq's room in custom built polygonal cabs did manage to get rid of (most) of the wispy treble biz - so I think maybe it's (mostly) about the cabs rather than inherent to the drivers themselves?


I'm not sure about that, as I never heard SQs HPDs, but in my experience some HPDs can be rather forward sounding and peaky - but not always as there are many factors to consider. Yes, cabinets make a huge difference to the sonic performance of all Tannoy DCs. However, unless we were sitting down listening to the same system and making comments about it together, it's difficult to get a proper handle on what each other is meaning.

Unfortunately in that respect, in terms of the AOS room, I wasn't there when you were.


I didn't hear any classical on them though, so maybe I still wouldn't have liked them. Dunno, worthy of further investigation maybe.
But in terms of 'shock & awe' Marco's Lockwoods were pretty, errr ... shockingly awesome! :eek:


Lol - you wanna hear them in my room at home, where the effect is intensified tenfold! :lol:

At home I've nailed their sweet spot and the room has (massively thick) solid walls (unlike the plasterboard monstrosities at Scalford), and of course there is all the Mana supports, my Sony CDP/transport and copper amp, not to mention an optimised mains supply, so yes, things are a little different again ;)


Well done the AOS team - I know a lot of work must have gone into that room - and there are many hugely positive comments about it on the Wigwam thread.

Cheers, dude. Yes it was very hard work on a number of levels, especially lugging the Lockwoods down the stairs at home and then back up again afterwards, not to mention all the driving involved and setting up of the gear.

Anthony came round to mine on Friday night and we had a session until 3am on Saturday morning, then we got up at 8am to load the van. We then had to drive down to Steve Toy's place to pick up all his gear (1.5 hours away), then to Scalford from there (2 hours away).

When we'd set-up the system in the room, the Wigwam boys then paid their customary visit for a sesh, which lasted until 3am on Sunday morning (great fun, though :cool:) and then we got up at 8am to get the room ready for the punters coming in at 10am - then back up the road to Wrexham after the show, getting in at around 9.30pm....

Bloody madness, lol :mental: No wonder I was shattered!! But it *was* worth the effort, although I'm not sure I'd do it again - certainly using the Lockwoods, anyway.

Ok folks, show report to follow later. It'll be short and sweet though, as unfortunately I only had time to visit Guy's room and the NVA one on the ground floor.

Marco.

[chris@panteg]

Hi Marco

Hope you are feeling refreshed ' after lugging those wardrobes :eyebrows: back home ' can i just say a big well done for all the effort you and the rest of the team put in .

The best thing about the AOS system for me ' is it sounds like i could listen to it for hours without any fatigue ' not shouty or peaky , i must say one of the Naim system's i heard sounded impressive and detailed with great dynamics but i couldn't listen to it for long ' not really a criticism ' just not to my taste .

Sorry i didn't get to chat ' i was rather late and was trying to cram what i could in 'must do better next time .

[alfie2902]

Hi guys,

A big well done from me!

It was great to meet a few of you again although very briefly :) Marco, Anthoney, Steve & Andre nice to meet you chaps. I also had a longer chat with Ian Walker on the saturday evening in Browellm's room were I was helping with set-up, very nice to meet you Ian :)

I only managed one quick visit to the AoS room in the morning when the lovely SOUL amp was in the mix. I did intend coming back later to hear the system with the Steves copper amp in but when I did manage to get back you were all packed away :( there was just too much to see & hear :)

Well my thoughts on the AoS system are, quite simply stunning :eyebrows: in my top 3 or 4 systems of the day! Hard to comment on any particular componant on its own as I didn't have long enough or know the componants well enough in isolation but as an whole a system I'd be proud to own :) The techie was doing the biz at the front end & sounded better than last year to my ears & those bloody wardrobes were one of the best Tannoy DCs I've heard :eyebrows: well done Marco! Anthonys SOUL amp was stunning to look at & worked very well in the system adding a little SET sweetness into the mix great work Anthony:stalks:!

Just great guys well done must of been alot of effort to get it all there & playing so sweetly, Thanks!

I'll add a little more of my thoughts from the rest of the show later :) which was a great day with some great systems long may it live!

Cheers, alfie.

P.S. Marco I expect to see the Lockwoods there next year so stop those lazy thoughts :ner:

[Beobloke]

The Ferrograph 'S1' were one of the main reason i visited the show, i liked em but the tweeter irritated me, i don't know what he'd done to em apart from the crossover!

Andre, to answer your question about my Ferrograph S1s, their driver lineup was originally a KEF B139 bass driver, Goodmans 3” midrange and a Goodmans 25mm tweeter. When I bought them (in very poor condition) one tweeter was damaged beyond repair and the other had been replaced by a truly evil Soundlab monstrosity.

At the time I worked for Goodmans and so managed to lay my hands on the specs and measurements for the original tweeter – a lot of research led me to the 19mm Audax domes that are now fitted. These actually matched very well in both level and response terms, although there is a small dip of around 1.5dB in the upper mid/lower treble crossover region where they do not reach quite as low as the originals. However, listening led me to conclude that the end result was highly pleasing and so I elected to leave well alone.

The recent spate of mods have merely been to re-wire them completely with Chord Odyessy cable and upgrade all the capacitors and resistors in the crossover to high quality items - no values have changed. I also took the opportunity to move the crossovers from the enclosures into separate boxes (some of the new components were so large, they actually wouldn’t go back into the cabinets anyway!)

Sorry the treble wasn’t to your liking, but I love, 'em, so there! :ner: ;)

Anyway, you haven’t heard horrible treble until you’ve heard the speakers I’ll be taking along next year..............

Once again, just to say what a brilliant day it was and whilst Marco's Tannoys are really not my cup of tea, they are undeniably impressive and have real visceral impact. You also won my award for the untidiest room - judging by the 'music software' table, I can only assume someone tripped over on the way in whilst carrying a huge pile of LPs and CDs! :lolsign:

[anthonyTD]

Hi guys,

A big well done from me!

It was great to meet a few of you again although very briefly :) Marco, Anthoney, Steve & Andre nice to meet you chaps. I also had a longer chat with Ian Walker on the saturday evening in Browellm's room were I was helping with set-up, very nice to meet you Ian :)

I only managed one quick visit to the AoS room in the morning when the lovely SOUL amp was in the mix. I did intend coming back later to hear the system with the Steves copper amp in but when I did manage to get back you were all packed away :( there was just too much to see & hear :)

Well my thoughts on the AoS system are, quite simply stunning :eyebrows: in my top 3 or 4 systems of the day! Hard to comment on any particular componant on its own as I didn't have long enough or know the componants well enough in isolation but as an whole a system I'd be proud to own :) The techie was doing the biz at the front end & sounded better than last year to my ears & those bloody wardrobes were one of the best Tannoy DCs I've heard :eyebrows: well done Marco! Anthonys SOUL amp was stunning to look at & worked very well in the system adding a little SET sweetness into the mix great work Anthony:stalks:!

Just great guys well done must of been alot of effort to get it all there & playing so sweetly, Thanks!

I'll add a little more of my thoughts from the rest of the show later :) which was a great day with some great systems long may it live!

Cheers, alfie.

P.S. Marco I expect to see the Lockwoods there next year so stop those lazy thoughts :ner:

hi alfie,
it was great to meet you again although it was somewhat brief this time, glad you liked the system, the day just ran away from us so not much time to have a good listen to many of the other systems but there were a few that i was impressed with for the brief time i had to spend in the rooms, ie the bastanis were great, also i should coco's horns were very impresive in scale and musicality, all in all an exhausting but very positive event on the whole.:)
regards,anthony,TD...

[Rare Bird]

Andre, to answer your question about my Ferrograph S1s, their driver lineup was originally a KEF B139 bass driver, Goodmans 3” midrange and a Goodmans 25mm tweeter. When I bought them (in very poor condition) one tweeter was damaged beyond repair and the other had been replaced by a truly evil Soundlab monstrosity.

At the time I worked for Goodmans and so managed to lay my hands on the specs and measurements for the original tweeter – a lot of research led me to the 19mm Audax domes that are now fitted. These actually matched very well in both level and response terms, although there is a small dip of around 1.5dB in the upper mid/lower treble crossover region where they do not reach quite as low as the originals. However, listening led me to conclude that the end result was highly pleasing and so I elected to leave well alone.

The recent spate of mods have merely been to re-wire them completely with Chord Odyessy cable and upgrade all the capacitors and resistors in the crossover to high quality items - no values have changed. I also took the opportunity to move the crossovers from the enclosures into separate boxes (some of the new components were so large, they actually wouldn’t go back into the cabinets anyway!)

Sorry the treble wasn’t to your liking, but I love, 'em, so there! :ner: ;)



Ah right i knew they wernt original tweeters my super dooper ears told me ;)..I wondered for a sec if banging the top of that Marantz CD player you were playing with your fist had something to do with it but no..:lol: :D Thanks again Adam.. as i mentioned to Marco earlier i was worried i was going def Sunday but seems not.

[newboy]

Hey Guys,
Again I was gobsmacked by the abiliities of many of set ups at the show especially as room effects had to be overcome on the spot as it were. Lots of pretty well sorted systems is a tribute to all who took part. Managed to have an introductary chat to Steve and Tony who were welcoming gurus and very easy to talk to especially to a humble new boy I hope that I did not bore them to tears. AOS sound was significant - on the money and covered the spectrum to my opened ears - well done to the team who made things work so well. Roll on Scalford 2011 - The show will need to try hard to upstage 2010

Regards,

Rod

[Ian Walker]

Hi Alfie,

It was great to meet you too mate.

I must say your room was neck and neck with Steve SPS for my favourite sound at the show.I was very impressed with the Modwrighted tranporter and those lovelly living voice speakers...a sound i could easily live with.
Anyway many thanks to the organizers and all the guys from the wam for making it a great weekend.....roll on next year i might even bring my Tannoys:eek:

Ian.

[alfie2902]

Hi Alfie,

It was great to meet you too mate.

I must say your room was neck and neck with Steve SPS for my favourite sound at the show.I was very impressed with the Modwrighted tranporter and those lovelly living voice speakers...a sound i could easily live with.
Anyway many thanks to the organizers and all the guys from the wam for making it a great weekend.....roll on next year i might even bring my Tannoys:eek:

Ian.

Hi Ian.

I only helped with the packing unpacking setting up taking down etc of the system in that room!

The system belongs to Mark who posts as Browellm on the Wam, well all of it except the Linn Akurate DS which belongs to another Wammer & was in the system for comparison!

I would love to hear the David Berning into your Tannoy Canterburys so yes bring them next year :eyebrows:

A little about the Modwright Transporter Akurate DS comparison. It proved very interesting as no real difference in sound quality could be heard & this is not only my view but the view of almost all that compared the 2 over the saturday at a bake-off & all day on sunday at the show!

What was even more interesting was the difference between Hi-res recordings & redbook CD quality! The hi-res left the redbook for dead.

Earlier in the week this comparison was done but with the same recording on vinyl too & the hi-res & vinyl left the redbook somewhat behind with first two having a very similar quailty! I wasn't there for the 3-way shoot out but I should coco could probably tell more as he was!

[The Vinyl Adventure]

I had a demo once of some high Rez fleetwood mac compared to the same tracks ripped from cd through a linn klimax - naim 252/250 once, it was remarkable the difference between the 2. The tracks were all off rumours which I find is quite good for determining levels of detail in a system coz of all the jingly jangly treble. The ripped cd sounded good, but as soon as the high rez version was played it somehow put a lot more space around the jingly jangly bits and instead of being amazed by the level of detail I was with the cd I was suddenly taken aback by the realism .. There was more detail but it was somehow less distracting in it's presentation...

[jandl100]

Hi Jerry,

What I was meaning before when we'd talked about this was that with the Lockwoods (at least to my ears anyway) there is no midrange 'honk' or peaky nature to the upper and mid frequencies which I often hear with other Tannoys, where things can get distinctly shouty and unpleasant with some material.

To my ears (and seemingly also those of most others who were at the show) the Lockwoods didn't do that and were just powerful and weighty, dynamic, and very entertaining to listen to with a wide range of music. Of course, YMMV :)



No, my mileage does not vary at all. I agree - no sign of any of the trad Tannoy honkiness or treble peaks, none at all that I cottoned on to in my necessarily brief audition. T'was just the wispy treble grainy colourations that bothered me on the classical choon.

My own guess is that it is partly the tweeter horn as you say, and also partly cone breakup resonances in the large bass/mid driver - it is surely too much to ask of a 12 or 15 inch driver to go so far up the frequency range in order to meet up with the tweeter and still remain pistonic?


Incidentally, where were you seated in the room when you were listening

Dead centre - middle-ish row, I think .... :scratch:
Maybe Nick remembers more precisely?

[MartinT]

I had a demo once of some high Rez fleetwood mac compared to the same tracks ripped from cd through a linn klimax - naim 252/250 once, it was remarkable the difference between the 2.

I have the Fleetwood Mac Rumours DVD-A hi-res recording. You're right, it sounds amazing and is far more revealing than the standard CD, to the point of showing up the multi-tracking in all its horror in places. Some tracks, however, like 'The Chain', are simply stupendous in hi-res.

[The Vinyl Adventure]

It funny you say that, he demoed "the chain" "song bird" and "gold dust woman" I'm pretty certain it was gold dust woman he said he felt it showed a little to much detail, but I have to say in the comaprison I either didn't notice that, or didn't care at the time - we did only listen once though!

(I actually got a right bolloking of Adam Meredith(?) on the naim forum for mentioning that the chap who had demoed had offered to let me have a copy of the high Rez rip - I'm led to belive it's quite difficult to do? ... That was the last time I posted on there ...)

[Marco]

Hi Jerry,


No, my mileage does not vary at all. I agree - no sign of any of the trad Tannoy honkiness or treble peaks, none at all that I cottoned on to in my necessarily brief audition. T'was just the wispy treble grainy colourations that bothered me on the classical choon.

My own guess is that it is partly the tweeter horn as you say, and also partly cone breakup resonances in the large bass/mid driver - it is surely too much to ask of a 12 or 15 inch driver to go so far up the frequency range in order to meet up with the tweeter and still remain pistonic?


Good, I'm glad we agree that 'honkiness' and treble peaks are not an issue with the Lockwoods, as this is what I've observed all along, so we can put that one to bed now :)

You could be right about the "wispy treble grainy colourations" in terms of it being related to cone break-up resonances of large DC drive units, and perhaps that's why you didn't hear this effect with SQ's smaller HPDs....

The other interesting point you made is that you only found this a problem with strings on classical music, and that everything else sounded fine, which may explain why I'm completely unaware of the effect you describe, as I rarely listen to classical music! ;)

Anyway it's all very interesting, but for me largely irrelevant as I can listen to music on them for hours with zero fatigue and simply sit there entranced by the beguiling way they reproduce my favourite choons.

The biggest compliment they received though was when a couple of chaps were comparing them favourably to a pair of Westminsters they'd heard recently, which was interesting as I remarked that the Lockwoods were £3k, not £30k!! :eyebrows:

Marco.

[Dave Hewitt]

Hi
Bloody hell Marco when I were a lad you could buy a detatched bungalow for that kind of dosh,and I dont mean 30k.
Dave.[the carefull one]

[Marco]

Aye, but the nursing home will cost more than that a week, so that's why you're saving up now! :lolsign:

Marco.

[pure sound]

People should probably also bear in mind that you were also only getting maybe 75% of the performance the speakers give in your home, in that room at the show.

[Marco]

Good point, Guy. Well, you've heard them in my system at home so you're in a position to judge :)

Btw, I've fixed the issue with the midrange you remarked on the last time. It wasn't the speakers - it was the coupling caps in the Croft preamp. I'd used 33uF ones (far too bloody big) instead of 0.22uF, and it was killing the sound! :doh:

S'ok though, it was fixed in time for the show!

Marco.

[Steve Toy]

That was always my bugbear with the Croft - the midrange was lacklustre. It certainly wasn't the fault of the speakers because I heard what they were really capable of when the AOS/TD grounded grid pre went in.

The good news is that the Croft was basically broken and trying to amplify inaudible frequencies at the expense of audible ones but is now fixed.

Meanwhile the grounded grid is now broken. It still operates but has become noisy and isn't sounding as musical as it should. It is currently under the knife having sat on the side all forlorn for the duration of the show.

[pure sound]

Re the Croft, Anthony was telling me. It seemed a strange thing to have a valve like a 6SL7 trying to charge such a large value. I'm not surprised that going smaller has tightened things up somewhat. Seems alot more sensible. You'll have to try a line stage with output transformers & no coupling caps one day ;)

[Marco]

Lol - I think Anthony's grounded grid designs are like that, are they not?

Also, Ian's using a World Designs pre, which uses transformer coupling, and sounds excellent (as do Anthony's GGs), but neither of those quite hits the spot in the same was as the Croft does now it's been 'fixed', as it were :)

It just seems to have this beguiling 'musicality' which is very detailed and informative and allows you to hear deep into the mix - but doesn't 'push' the sound at you, making for extremely long listening sessions with absolutely no fatigue factor whatsoever.

I honestly doubt I'll change it now, especially as there are still a few more tweaks that can be done :cool:

Marco.

[anthonyTD]

Lol - I think Anthony's grounded grid designs are like that, are they not?

Also, Ian's using a World Designs pre, which uses transformer coupling, and sounds excellent (as do Anthony's GGs), but neither of those quite hits the spot in the same was as the Croft does now it's been 'fixed', as it were :)

It just seems to have this beguiling 'musicality' which is very detailed and informative and allows you to hear deep into the mix - but doesn't 'push' the sound at you, making for extremely long listening sessions with absolutely no fatigue factor whatsoever.

I honestly doubt I'll ever change it now, especially as there are still a few more tweaks that can be done :cool:
Marco.

aye,
but its no longer a croft but a Crofdistinctions! [just kidding Glenn]:)
A...

[Marco]

:lolsign:

Don't forget to send me that invoice ;)

Marco.

[anthonyTD]

:lolsign:

Don't forget to send me that invoice ;)

Marco.
HAVENT YOU RECEIVED IT YET!:eek:
a...

[Marco]

Ok, as I've already mentioned, our room was so constantly busy on Sunday that sadly I missed most of the rest of the show and what was going on in the other rooms....

However I did manage to listen to the system in Pete and Guy's room on the Saturday night, and I made a point of going into Richard Dunn's room on the Sunday, as I wanted to hear what NVA amps are capable of and to try and appreciate why they have a (fairly small) but very dedicated and loyal following.

I thought that Pete and Guy's system was fantastic and that they'd done a really good job of getting it to work well in the room, which is more than half the battle at shows! As I’m unfamiliar with what equipment was used, I’ll concentrate on what I thought of the effect of the system as a whole through the speakers.

I loved the Vitavox-based horns, which in terms of midrange clarity and dynamics, together with their ability to resolve the most subtle of musical information, I found incredibly realistic. Acoustic instruments were reproduced in a shockingly vivid fashion, which conventional speakers just simply cannot do (apparently Steve Shiels' horns were similarly dramatic sounding, but alas I never got to hear those).

The only box speakers I've heard get anywhere close to their abilities in that area are my Lockwoods and Ian's Canterburys, which of course have horn-loaded midrange and tweeters. Returning to the AOS room later in the evening and listening to the Lockwoods playing the same music (which I had brought to Guy's room) confirmed this, but there was still a little way to go in order to equal them in that respect.

However, one area where in my opinion all (non-box) horn-driven speakers fall down is in terms of bass response and (ultimate) low-end extension - this is where I feel the trade-off is with such designs. One has to choose one's compromises with any loudspeakers as, after all, nothing is perfect. This lack of low-end extension, however, (compared to the visceral impact in that area I'm used to from the Lockwoods) ultimately focuses attention on the mid and top end, which is partly why the sound is so (dramatically) impressive in that area.

In order to combat this, Guy was using a subwoofer, which certainly augmented their bass response and added some weight and gravitas to lower frequencies, but for me it was rather 'thuddy' and 'one-note', and lacked tune, rhythm and texture - an effect which often happens when there aren't correctly time-aligned and dedicated drive units to handle low frequencies, and with subwoofers when bass isn't properly integrated with the rest of the (partnering) loudspeaker frequency range. As such, I've yet to hear subs working properly in a 2-channel music system.

However, Guy recognised this and has plans to improve things in that area, so in that respect, it is still 'work in progress'. Undoubtedly though, the system overall was one of the best of the show, based on the many positive comments made here and elsewhere, and from what I heard on Saturday night. Also, just looking at the speakers made you laugh out loud at how outrageously 'impractical' they are, so there was a good deal of fun factor attached to the listening experience - nice one guys, you did a really good job! :cool:

Ok now, NVA…..

It’s well-known that RD and I don’t exactly see eye-to-eye (although I would like to improve relations and put an end to the inter-forum bitching between his place and here that’s been going on recently), but regardless of that I’ve always respected his ability as an audio design engineer. Quite simply, you can’t have so many delighted and satisfied customers, over many years, who will only too readily recommend NVA kit to others if the products aren’t any good.

However, up until Sunday, I’d never had the opportunity to listen to any NVA equipment, and so have never commented on it as I was not qualified to do so. I’m afraid that I am someone who only comments on equipment I’ve heard – and assessed in a proper context, at that. Therefore I was very interested in hearing Richard’s system, and so made sure that if I didn’t get to check out anything else, I would leave the show having had the chance to experience the undoubtedly well-earned and somewhat 'cult' reputation equipment has from this particular manufacturer.....

[To be continued after lunch]

Marco.

[pure sound]

Indeed, the subwoofer requirements in a normal living room are significantly less than those needed for a room the size of that one at Scalford. The hornloaded part was fine doing its thing down to ~100Hz (which is all its intended to do) but the poor little sub with a single 12" didn't really have a prayer of providing the necessary oomph below that. In that room I suspect that even the twin 15"s of a pair of Lockwoods might not have been quite enough. Such a large room of course needs a proper bass system and if I lived in such a space I've a good idea what it would take ;) We might've needed one or two more vans though!

Fortunately I don't have such a large living room at home and as a result it isn't quite so difficult to present bass with the correct proportion & quality. I've been using a single sub to date (only just finished the 2nd horn) but I have a couple of nice Japanese 15"s here which I shall be pressing into service when time allows. That should be enough for my room.

Incidentally, you can do horn bass down to 30-40Hz & it can be pretty spectacular. I heard a system in Japan many years ago with horns coming out of the ceiling which words can't describe but it has to be done on that truly vast scale and few people have the space for it. Time aligning it would also be a challenge.

I'm just glad that the rest of what was being played demonstrated the potential of front loaded horns with good drivers behind them. I think its hard to better that approach. The diaphragms are barely moving & therefore not getting into non linear territory. The amp can be super simple. Everything works in its favour except the WAF!

[anthonyTD]

Indeed, the subwoofer requirements in a normal living room are significantly less than those needed for a room the size of that one at Scalford. The hornloaded part was fine doing its thing down to ~100Hz (which is all its intended to do) but the poor little sub with a single 12" didn't really have a prayer of providing the necessary oomph below that. In that room I suspect that even the twin 15"s of a pair of Lockwoods might not have been quite enough. Such a large room of course needs a proper bass system and if I lived in such a space I've a good idea what it would take ;)

Fortunately I don't have such a large living room at home and as a result it isn't quite so difficult to present bass with the correct proportion & quality. I've been using a single sub to date (only just finished the 2nd horn) but I have a couple of nice Japanese 15"s here which I shall be pressing into service when time allows. That should be enough for my room.

Incidentally, you can do horn bass down to 30-40Hz & it can be pretty spectacular. I heard a system in Japan many years ago with horns coming out of the ceiling which words can't describe but it has to be done on that truly vast scale and few people have the space for it. Time aligning it would also be a challenge.

I'm just glad that the rest of what was being played demonstrated the potential of front loaded horns with good drivers behind them. I think its hard to better that approach. The diaphragms are barely moving & therefore not getting into non linear territory. The amp can be super simple. Everything works in its favour except the WAF!

hi guy,
as i mentioned on a few occasions when we chatted putting aside their failings in the bass [which was to be expected in such a vast room] i thought they had real potential, lightning quick in the mid and top and very musicaly involving, as for the WAF well........:eek:
:lolsign:

[jandl100]

I feel a need to pre-empt Marco's NVA room review! :eyebrows: The speakers were, errr, a tad unusual! A marmite thing, I suspect. Some folks seemed to really like them. Very ballsy with a big sound from a little box. I'm not sure about the refinement thing, though. A big wall of sound type of presentation which really isn't my thing at all. Phil Spectre might have approved, though. :) But then, I didn't get a chance to listen for very long.

Not sure I would go for those speakers myself ... OK, tbh I wouldn't! But the NVA A80 mono-amps remain among the best solid staters I have owned or heard ... and simply fantastic vfm, imho. :eek: Into my speakers they worked like a dream.

[anthonyTD]

hi all,
another acknowledgement i would like to comment on was the paul hynes power supply for the 1210 turntable that shuggie brought into the AOS room later on in the day, to do the comparison we used an excelent recorded classical piece [shuggie and others can elaborate as to the composer etc] with real dynamic range. we first listened to the turntable setup with the timestep version that was already in situ, sounded good, then we swapped out the timestep power supply and substituted it for paul's, well,,, the diffrence was not subtle, the first thing that came to mind with all who listened was the very noticeable tightness and grip that this power supply had over this great piece of music, everything seemed to snap into focus with pace and real control, sometimes this observation can be at the expense of soundstage size and depth etc, not on this occasion, all that huge sounstage and dynamics were still intact and more!
my conclusion as to why this power supply had such a vast improvement on the already very capable 1210 was that it had a much higher current and faster regulation capability over the timestep, and something i feel i can relate to as i suspect paul's design is on a similar path to my own regs that are used through out the soul and soul-mate preamplifier range etc.
i would just like to take this opertunety to congratulate paul on this achievement and to thank shuggie for giving us the chance to experience the vast superiority of this suppy for the technics 1210.:)
A...

[Marco]

Yup, I would have to agree... As good as the Time Step was, the Paul Hynes comprehensively outperformed it (as Anthony describes) and this is the second time I've heard the effect. The first time being when Shuggie brought the Paul Hynes round to my place and we did a back-to-back comparison in my system.

Dave C will now have to up the ante with the new Time Step MKII if his product is to remain competitive, performance-wise. The Time Step PSU is still a superb unit and will transform the performance of the SL1200/1210, but currently the Paul Hynes PSU is significantly better - and this fact must be acknowledged :)

Dave, you'd better get your soldering iron out mate! ;)

Marco.

[The Vinyl Adventure]

Is it competativly priced

[Mr. C]

Hi Tony,

I would agree also Paul's unit is huge leap above the time-step effort.
Again as been stated a very fair price for such quantifiable performance.
You all sounded like you had a great time over the weekend too.

Cheers Tony

[anthonyTD]

Hi Tony,

I would agree also Paul's unit is huge leap above the time-step effort.
Again as been stated a very fair price for such quantifiable performance.
You all sounded like you had a great time over the weekend too.

Cheers Tony
hi tony,
yes it realy was a great day, should have come along, next year maybe?
A...

[MartinT]

I'm wondering whether a circuit like the Super-Teddy regulator would be a good one to replace the innards of the rather nice TimeStep case. The ST circuit is non-commercial, however, so I'm also interested in Dave's response - hopefully with something that can utilise the same case.

http://www.teddypardo.com/Articles/SuperTeddyReg.html

[Mike]

Btw, I've fixed the issue with the midrange you remarked on the last time. It wasn't the speakers - it was the coupling caps in the Croft preamp. I'd used 33uF ones (far too bloody big) instead of 0.22uF, and it was killing the sound! :doh:

Hmmm... I seem to remember asking (months ago?) you if you were sure about 33uF? It's bloody massive for a coupling cap! :ner:

[Rare Bird]

Ok now, NVA…..

It’s well-known that RD and I don’t exactly see eye-to-eye (although I would like to improve relations and put an end to the inter-forum bitching between his place and here that’s been going on recently), but regardless of that I’ve always respected his ability as an audio design engineer. Quite simply, you can’t have so many delighted and satisfied customers, over many years, who will only too readily recommend NVA kit to others if the products aren’t any good.

However, up until Sunday, I’d never had the opportunity to listen to any NVA equipment, and so have never commented on it as I was not qualified to do so. I’m afraid that I am someone who only comments on equipment I’ve heard – and assessed in a proper context, at that. Therefore I was very interested in hearing Richard’s system, and so made sure that if I didn’t get to check out anything else, I would leave the show having had the chance to experience the undoubtedly well-earned and somewhat 'cult' reputation equipment has from this particular manufacturer.....

[To be continued after lunch]

Marco.

Guess what i thought of immediately on entered the room, the
Allison 'Six' cube speakers which also happen to have a front firing tweeter, Top firing woofer ;)

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a222/LIVING-SIN/AllisonSix.jpg


I'm also puzzled as to why that Pioneer 'PL-71' was used instead of his old 'Senior' turntable! :scratch:

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a222/LIVING-SIN/Senior.jpg

[Marco]

Hi Mikey,


Hmmm... I seem to remember asking (months ago?) you if you were sure about 33uF? It's bloody massive for a coupling cap!

Indeed you did, glasshoppa! Thing is, there were already 40uF Ducatti ones in the bloody thing, so I was only replicating (as close as possible) what was being used :mental: :ner:

I was told by Glenn that Amar (the dickhead who ripped him off) had listened to them and found that the, erm, 'uprated' caps sounded better... Why Glenn let him do that though is anyone's guess! :rolleyes:

Marco.

[Dave Cawley]

Our new HE PSU is in production right now. So far it will deliver over 20A pulses and you could weld your watch strap with it! But it is primarily designed to work with the new platter.

Of course Timestep customers will be able to make a nice and low cost upgrade as the dynamics of the new platter are very different. There is no redundancy with Timestep products. We learnt this in 1984 where we continually upgrading our weather satellite systems, without ever leaving customers in the lurch. Those who defected to other products, lost money and came back to hug us, and we hugged them back!:grouphug:

Regards

Dave

[pure sound]

Guess what i thought of immediately on entered the room, the
Allison 'Six' cube speakers which also happen to have a front firing tweeter, Top firing woofer ;)

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a222/LIVING-SIN/AllisonSix.jpg


I'm also puzzled as to why that Pioneer 'PL-71' was used instead of his old 'Senior' turntable! :scratch:

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a222/LIVING-SIN/Senior.jpg

I think Richard had some association with Roy Allison at some point (both at AR?) and admired his work. I think he feels that he's perhaps taken it on further.

Re the TT, maybe he doesn't still have one or just prefers the PL71 anyway.

[MartinT]

Nice one, Dave. I take it that the new PSU still supplies 21V but with increased maximum current? When you say 'upgrade', is this a swap-out upgrade or do you modify the innards of our existing TimeSteps to make them HE?

[The Vinyl Adventure]

we got any idea's on pricing and due date for said platter and psu dave?

[twelvebears]

Our new HE PSU is in production right now. So far it will deliver over 20A pulses and you could weld your watch strap with it! But it is primarily designed to work with the new platter.

Of course Timestep customers will be able to make a nice and low cost upgrade as the dynamics of the new platter are very different. There is no redundancy with Timestep products. We learnt this in 1984 where we continually upgrading our weather satellite systems, without ever leaving customers in the lurch. Those who defected to other products, lost money and came back to hug us, and we hugged them back!:grouphug:

Regards

Dave

Dave does that mean I can do some kind of trade-in/up on the Timestep I've just bought to the new version as part of some platter, PSU, bearing type deal?

[Jonboy]

I kept being drawn back to those horns in Guys room, there was a track played near the end on the tt which started off with drums getting louder with a few whoops in the middle i think it was By Hugh Masekela that sounded so good it was just amazing and so good it really showed off those horns and your flea powered amp at their best, perhaps you could enlighten me Guy as to what it was, it was about the time that you were talking to Mike P about Audionote.

[pure sound]

I think it was a Live album of his called 'Hope'. I wasn't familiar with it either (it belonged to Pete) but it was extraordinary. The cartridge was behaving itself & not crackling. I wish more people could have heard that particular song just then. It was alarming!



the track was called Stimela.

I must get a copy of this album

[Dave Cawley]

Dave does that mean I can do some kind of trade-in/up on the Timestep I've just bought to the new version as part of some platter, PSU, bearing type deal?

Of course it does! As I said, we never leave customers in the lurch. It's all about loyalty, in both directions..............

The PSU will be ready in about 6 weeks, the platter a bit longer.:grouphug:

Regards

Dave

[Themis]

However, up until Sunday, I’d never had the opportunity to listen to any NVA equipment, and so have never commented on it as I was not qualified to do so. I’m afraid that I am someone who only comments on equipment I’ve heard – and assessed in a proper context, at that. Therefore I was very interested in hearing Richard’s system, and so made sure that if I didn’t get to check out anything else, I would leave the show having had the chance to experience the undoubtedly well-earned and somewhat 'cult' reputation equipment has from this particular manufacturer.....

[To be continued after lunch]

.... and .... ??? :scratch:

[these Italians seem to take aaaaages to have their lunch... :lol:]

[Marco]

Patience, mon ami - it takes time to savour an exceptionally good cassoulet! :eyebrows:

Marco.

[Ian Walker]

Yes hurry up daftee ive had my dinner and tea since then:)

[Jonboy]

Cheers Guy, i have just ordered it

[REM]

The PSU will be ready in about 6 weeks, the platter a bit longer.:grouphug:

Regards

Dave

Ooh er, will it be worth doing on it's own or is it really a case of HE PSU and platter together?:)

[The Vinyl Adventure]

I can't get my head round the idea of a platter for it... Is it going to make it much bigger ... I'm so intrigued by this it makes me 'ed fizz

[Mike]

Hi Mikey,



Indeed you did, glasshoppa! Thing is, there were already 40uF Ducatti ones in the bloody thing, so I was only replicating (as close as possible) what was being used :mental: :ner:

I was told by Glenn that Amar (the dickhead who ripped him off) had listened to them and found that the, erm, 'uprated' caps sounded better... Why Glenn let him do that though is anyone's guess! :rolleyes:

Marco.

Well, see.... you should listen to 'Uncle Shian7'! :rolleyes:

[Marco]

Indeed! Sometimes though you just have to discover these things for yourself :)

So howz your system doing these days, muchacho - what shenanigans ya been up to? :cool:

Marco.

[Marco]

Meanwhile.... Who's that ponytailed hunk in the black t-shirt scratching his gladeye?

http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/2555/andresx.jpg (http://img43.imageshack.us/i/andresx.jpg/)

:eek:

Marco.

[YNWaN]

Well it aint you - too much hair

[Marco]

Indeed :lol:

And it can't be you 'cos he's not wearing a dress! :eek: :lolsign:

;)

Marco.

[Themis]

And it's not me cause I was not not there... :lol:

[Jonboy]

He's trying to make us baldys jealous

[Mike]

So howz your system doing these days, muchacho - what shenanigans ya been up to? :cool:

Frustrating... :scratch:

Everything from utterly sublime to slightly dissapointing... but never crappy.

A mildly tricky case of find components that are 'just so'!

[Spectral Morn]

Come on Marco.

We had part 1 of your show report....PART 2 AFTER LUNCH (you typed).... Is that lunch today or lunch in a day, a week, a month, next year, next decade ?....get on with it.

Folks badger him...otherwise we will never see it ;) Its happened before...way to many times ;):eyebrows::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


Regards D S D L

[Themis]

... I start filling another form (on volume 486) to Marco's secretary... :lolsign:

[Rare Bird]

Meanwhile.... Who's that ponytailed hunk in the black t-shirt scratching his gladeye?

http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/2555/andresx.jpg (http://img43.imageshack.us/i/andresx.jpg/)

:eek:



:lolsign:

[chris@panteg]

I think it was a Live album of his called 'Hope'. I wasn't familiar with it either (it belonged to Pete) but it was extraordinary. The cartridge was behaving itself & not crackling. I wish more people could have heard that particular song just then. It was alarming!



the track was called Stimela.

I must get a copy of this album

Hi Guy

I was sat right in front of the left horn ' when that track kicked off ' i could feel the hairs on the back of my neck OMG :eek: , when he did those whoops ' i really can honestly say i have never heard anything like it from any sort of HiFi system .

This is what makes it so worthwhile coming to an event like this ' i want to hear them again :)

[Stratmangler]

Come on Marco.

We had part 1 of your show report....PART 2 AFTER LUNCH (you typed).... Is that lunch today or lunch in a day, a week, a month, next year, next decade ?....get on with it.

Folks badger him...otherwise we will never see it ;) Its happened before...way to many times ;):eyebrows::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


Regards D S D L

Come on Neil, sorry, my Lord Davros, after your skirmishes with The Doctor you should know that time is an illusion, lunchtime doubly so (now where did that quote come from - answers on a postcard to .........)

Chris:)

[The Grand Wazoo]

Come on Neil, sorry, my Lord Davros, after your skirmishes with The Doctor you should know that time is an illusion, lunchtime doubly so (now where did that quote come from - answers on a postcard to .........)

Chris:)

Very deep, you should send that in to the Reader's Digest. They've got a page for people like you.

[Beechwoods]

They did until they went into administration!

[The Grand Wazoo]

I know Nick, but when Douglas Adams wrote that line (& Chris's quote) they were still going strong!

[Beechwoods]

Tom Champagne and his free draws will definitely be sadly missed. I was always on his list of pre-selected winners. It made me feel very special :eek:

[Rare Bird]

hi all,
it was good to meet you all, unfortunetly there were a few of you [ including andre] that i didnt get to have a chat with even though i was in the room at the time some of you were there, we just werent introduced!:doh:


Anthony

More & more i think about i'm certain i was sat at the side of you.were you in the room when nick put his 'Dark Side Of The Moon' tape on the 'RT707' open reel just afer dinnertime? if you were i'm really sorry, i didnt realise..

[leo]

Is it competativly priced

Give him a shout, he's a top bloke to deal with:) I've messed about with quite a lot of psu's and have yet to find anything to better this guys designs

[YNWaN]

Indeed :lol:

And it can't be you 'cos he's not wearing a dress! :eek: :lolsign:

;)

Marco.

And sitting down!

I seemed to spend almost the entire day standing up for some reason.

[Beechwoods]

Anthony

More & more i think about i'm certain i was sat at the side of you.were you in the room when nick put his 'Dark Side Of The Moon' tape on the 'RT707' open reel just afer dinnertime? if you were i'm really sorry, i didnt realise..

I thought that you knew each other or I'd have introduced you. You were indeed sat right next to Anthony. When you got up Anthony asked who you were... :doh: That's why we should have all been wearing badges!

[jandl100]

As Hamish asked a loooong time back now - how much is the Hynes PSU for the Techie? :)

[Steve Toy]

Same price as the Timestep.

[anthonyTD]

Anthony

More & more i think about i'm certain i was sat at the side of you.were you in the room when nick put his 'Dark Side Of The Moon' tape on the 'RT707' open reel just afer dinnertime? if you were i'm really sorry, i didnt realise..

hi andre,
yes it would seem we were sitting next to each other when nicks tape deck was in the mix, unfortunetly as nick pointed out he thought we had already met:doh: anyway glad you enjoyed the show and who knows maybe next year.
regards,anthony,TD...

[Marco]

Earlier I wrote:


Ok now, NVA…..

It’s well-known that RD and I don’t exactly see eye-to-eye (although I would like to improve relations and put an end to the inter-forum bitching between his place and here that’s been going on recently), but regardless of that I’ve always respected his ability as an audio design engineer. Quite simply, you can’t have so many delighted and satisfied customers, over many years, who will only too readily recommend NVA kit to others if the products aren’t any good.

However, up until Sunday, I’d never had the opportunity to listen to any NVA equipment, and so have never commented on it as I was not qualified to do so. I’m afraid that I am someone who only comments on equipment I’ve heard – and assessed in a proper context, at that. Therefore I was very interested in hearing Richard’s system, and so made sure that if I didn’t get to check out anything else, I would leave the show having had the chance to experience the undoubtedly well-earned and somewhat 'cult' reputation equipment has from this particular manufacturer.....

[To be continued after lunch]


Ok, having now finished my lunch, but soon about to start today's (:eyebrows:), and by popular request, here's the rest of my show report....

Handing the bedroom keys into reception, which was just across from the NVA demo room, and paying for my room, Steve Toy came out and remarked: "It's a bit bright and shouty in there" - fair enough, he was entitled to his opinion, and indeed I'd heard other similarly negative comments from people earlier about the sound Richard's system was making, but I wasn't going to let that influence me, as I wanted to let my own ears be the judge.

When I walked in it actually didn't sound too bad, however after having been listening to the AOS system, which was somewhat different (!), mainly due to the type of speakers that were being used, it took a little while for my ears to acclimatise to the variance in sonic presentation, which as I took my seat near the front of the system, began to happen fairly quickly. I find that in these situations it's important not to make snap judgments and just let the music 'happen'....

Ok, let's get the negatives out of the way first, the system was being played too loudly (something I'm sometimes guilty of myself at shows, but made sure didn't happen this year). The excessive volume level was distorting the sound somewhat and highlighting aspects of the room acoustics which were less than ideal, not to mention the deficiencies in the pop recording Richard was playing at the time (I forget what it was) - but underneath all that I could definitely hear some good things going on.

I don't particularly like the Cube loudspeakers (although they are well made and finished), as I don't get on with small speakers trying to behave like big ones, and to my ears they sounded coloured, quite 'pinched' and rather exposed at the top end, but I think they would perform somewhat differently in a room more suitable for their size, played at lower volumes, where I suspect that the Cubes would sound rather 'intimate' and musically revealing. Obvious colorations aside, they did provide plenty of insight into the various recordings I listened to.

Therefore I'd agree with Jerry - they definitely come under the 'Marmite' category of loudspeakers, but I could well imagine them being just the ticket in circumstances where everything is working in their favour, especially where space is limited and one wants as big and detailed a sound as possible. They also score in terms of 'WAF factor', which like it or not is an important consideration these days.

So now onto the positives which, in my opinion, significantly outweighed the negatives... While I was sitting there listening and getting used to how the system presented music (bearing in mind that I spent a good while in the room doing just that) it became obvious to me that the NVA amps (which is where the real sonic talent lay in the system demonstrated) major on dynamic impact, clarity, low coloration and almost a complete lack of character; yet they do so without sounding sterile or clinical in any way I could detect.

Yes, the speakers were coloured and a little brightly balanced, so I had to allow for that, but I could easily listen through this and hear the considerable talent of the amplifiers allowing what seemed like a very detailed and open window onto the music. Clearly, Richard voices his equipment with the goal of minimising influence from the sonic signature of internal components and to remove as much of their 'sound' as possible - an approach I admire, as done properly, it allows the listener significant insight into programme material and thus access to 'musical message', if you will, of the musicians and performers. Succeeding to create this effect is what enables a system to portray emotion and allows listeners to 'connect' with the performance in a way which suspends disbelief - something which surprisingly alludes many so-called 'high-end' systems that often flatter to deceive in that respect, and can thus sound somewhat ordinary.

The NVA amps displayed a beguiling 'hear through' quality in the midrange, allowing subtle nuances in the mix their own acoustic space, creating that 'spooky' out-of-the-box effect with voices and instruments one normally only hears with good valve amps, and combining with that a power and authority (or subtlety where required) in other areas of their sonic repertoire which belies their fairly modest output wattage. It seems obvious to me (although I will stand corrected if necessary) that Richard has voiced his amps in a way which attempt to portray the best of valves and solid-state, and this isn’t surprising given that with his experience he must have a good understanding of what both technologies have to offer, thus recognising their good and bad points and attempting to combine the two to good effect.

If that wasn’t his intention, then it’s certainly what I hear, as other than with some of Anthony TD's designs, I’ve never experienced solid-state equipment sounding so open, expansive, and devoid of grain and also that 'grey' tonality and 'flat' characteristics which can make music sound bland and uninteresting. Perhaps he’s just got the recipe right where other manufacturers of solid-state gear have failed? Who knows? One thing’s for certain though, NVA amps are very capable designs and deserve much wider recognition amongst music lovers and audiophiles alike. To date it seems that most NVA amp users (certainly those I know who post on forums) use small or smallish speakers… It would be interesting to hear the results when something huge and suitably 'naughty' (like my Lockwoods) were brought into the equation, as I suspect the results would be rather entertaining! :eek:

In summary, NVA amplifiers are undoubtedly one of the best examples I’ve heard of the solid-state art (at any price), and in my opinion are easily the equal (more likely the superior) of current offerings from the likes of Linn and Naim. As such, I would heartily recommend them to anyone who’s in the market for high-quality transistor amps and seeking the biggest bang for their buck.

Later after today's lunch (although it could be tomorrow ;)) I’ll discuss my views on Richard’s Pioneer PL-71/SPU Gold combo and his (non-SUT) based phono stage... So stay tuned, mes amis! :cool:

Marco.

[Beobloke]

They (the NVA Cubes) also score in terms of 'WAF factor', which like it or not is an important consideration these days.


For what it's worth, my wife poked round them and declared them ugly and poorly finished! :lol:

Mind you, she wasn't exactly complementary about the visuals of Marco's Tannoys either, so she clearly has no taste.........

[Steve Toy]

Marco, it was a bit bright and shouty in there but, like you, I blamed the speakers - too small in too big a room trying to defy the laws of physics. The trick of "ooh I can't believe you can get such a big sound from such small boxes!" is one I played when I had my Piega TS5s, those narrow aluminium columns with tiny twin 3.5 inch drivers on the end of that Densen B330 solid state behemoth I used to own before I discovered the wonders of the glowing bottle. It works for a while then the reality dawns that things sound rather congested and the music is struggling to get out. Such an illusion was shattered forever for me with that experience and hearing Richard's setup reminded me of it.

I agree that the NVA amplification was excellent though and is probably about as close to valve-like clarity and dynamics you're ever likely to get from solid state. I'd certainly love to hear his setup again with a proper pair of speakers, say a pair of Focal 1027s.

[Marco]

Hi Adam,


For what it's worth, my wife poked round them and declared them ugly and poorly finished!


They looked pretty ok to me, but then I never scrutinised them.


Mind you, she wasn't exactly complementary about the visuals of Marco's Tannoys either, so she clearly has no taste.........

Lol - don't diss me rabbit hutches! :lol:

Marco.

[Steve Toy]

I arrived at 10.15 and Mr Hi-Viz was there to usher new arrivals to a suitable parking space. Im my case he directed me to reception and asked who I was picking up :D

I said that I wasn't there to pick up a passenger but was there as an exhibitor.

I made my way to our room and it sounded considerably more pleasant than it did last year. It wasn't quite right though as the wrong digital interconnect had been used. I swapped the Mark Grant for the Van Den Hul digital interconnect and the music snapped back into focus. Everyone in the room agreed that this was a marked improvement.

I also moved the power supply feeding Marco's Croft pre to a different shelf offering better isolation. This was also a clearly audible improvement.

Then I sat back and enjoyed the music for a quite a while before venturing out to hear other systems. I rushed around a bit, heard a few and undoubtedly missed some too.

Of those that I heard the highlights were as follows:

Guy/Pete's horns - stunning speed and dynamics.

Browellm's Living Voice/Audio Note set up on the end of a Linn DS and another streaming device with valves poking out of the top - lovely midrange in particular.

Gazar's Focal 1027s on the end of the Wadia was a total riot. Focals are temperamental at the best of times but get them right and they sound stunning as these did.

The Bastani/Avid system was pure class. I couldn't work out what the amps were though.

Steve Shiel's DIY room next to ours was a great combination of speed, dynamics and bass weight - very musical.

A special mention has to go to the father/11year-old son's Naim driving small Kan-like speakers against the rear wall. This was small speakers done extremely well. They didn't do things there were incapable of, they sounded full and weighty for their size and yet weren't attempting to defy the laws of physics. The musical message came through very clearly.

[Rare Bird]

For what it's worth, my wife poked round them and declared them ugly and poorly finished! :lol:


+1


Marco, it was a bit bright and shouty in there but, like you, I blamed the speakers

:lol: I did warn you..I'm sure i used a different term tho :lol:

The amps are great tho, always have been

[Steve Toy]

Aye you did warn me!

I get the impression Richard, tough as he looks is well under the thumb at home :eyebrows: :eek: which is why we saw (and heard) WAF speakers instead of proper ones that did not do justice to his superb amps and front end.

[YNWaN]

I had a quick listen to the smaller of the two systems and it sounded OK. I didn't know (or particularly like) the music that was playing but the sound was free from obvious issues. It was hardly the last word in terms of transparency or frequency extension - but, within context - it was OK (this may have been a recording issue - I don't know, and I was too busy to listen any further).

The finish of the speakers seemed fine to me (putting aside the PA grills silicone sealed to the cabinets). I didn't have an issue with the tonal balance but, as with many wall positioned speakers, the imagery was distinctly two dimensional and horizontal placement was nothing special either.

[chris@panteg]

Another piccy of the SP10 with that astonishing IO ltd ' with a dash of sunlight on the SME :)


http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu82/chrispanteg30/DSCF0381.jpg

[chris@panteg]

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu82/chrispanteg30/DSCF0376.jpg


I did like that Copper amp Marco ' its a beauty

[Rare Bird]

Thats Steves amp.

It would look great high gloss Orange with chrome transformer caps :eyebrows:

[chris@panteg]

Oh ' it looks the same is there some differences ?

[Ali Tait]

Same amp I think.Marco's has chrome transformer covers ISTR.

[Rare Bird]

Steve has NOS Tesla KT88's, Marco has NOS GEC's

[Marco]

Oh ' it looks the same is there some differences ?


Not really - mine is identical looking, apart from having copper transformer covers (and different output valves):

http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/3829/copperamp015.jpg (http://img52.imageshack.us/i/copperamp015.jpg/)

:)

Marco.

[chris@panteg]

Marco ' its a lovely looking thing ' tremendously gutsy sounding yet sweet with it ! :)

i should have said ' are there some differences ' sorry for the bad Grammar .

[chris@panteg]

I had a brief chat with Pete ' i should coco ' about his SP10 , he seems very keen to get a Voyd .5 or full reference , mounting a SME V and the IO ltd '.

If you do Pete please bring it next year ' :)

[Marco]

Hi Chris,


Marco ' its a lovely looking thing ' tremendously gutsy sounding yet sweet with it !


Indeed - hence why I've stuck with P/P, even though I fully appreciate what good SETs can do, as to my ears, the copper amp combines the best of both worlds :cool:

The gut-wrenching levels it can drive the Lockwoods to, though, (and yet both remain in complete control) is a very scary thing... :eek:

Valve power roolz! :eyebrows:

Marco.

[chris@panteg]

I absolutely agree Marco '

Though if i had the dosh and the space ' i would have 2 system's one PP and a SET , the SET system would have those Horns ' but with a different type of sub ' say like the living voice air partner , now where's that Lotto ticket :rolleyes:

[Marco]

Yup... TBH though, Anthony's Soul 15W single-ended had nearly as much balls as the copper amp, and with it a goodly dose of that SET magic, hence why it stayed in for most of the day....

Maybe I'll treat myself to one of those for the kitchen system, when that gets redesigned later this year ;)

Marco.

[chris@panteg]

:) lol that's a great idea

I did manage to hear the soul amp very briefly i think ' the one with the red top ? yes , sounded superb .

[pure sound]

I absolutely agree Marco '

Though if i had the dosh and the space ' i would have 2 system's one PP and a SET , the SET system would have those Horns ' but with a different type of sub ' say like the living voice air partner , now where's that Lotto ticket

That's the thing, you need to choose the bass solution to fit the size of room. None of us have a room that size or we might have had a couple of these to take!

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh107/pure_sound/looneybin.jpg

http://www.proaudioparts.co.uk/looneybin.asp

[chris@panteg]

Hi Guy

Are you going to demonstrate the horn system at another show or is it a one off ' as i would love to drag my mate John along to hear them , i am sure he would love it .

Those look pretty insane ' :eek:

[pure sound]

I don't know, it was alot of effort to ferry it all up there. It was nice (& a privilege) just to hear a few of those items; V-12 arm, Io Ltd, SFz transformer, M77 pre & the speakers all in the same room together at the same time. It's not going to happen very often.

[chris@panteg]

In that case ' a big thank you from me , listening to that Hugh Masekela track will live long in the memory , it was quite something to behold .

[Rare Bird]

Yup... TBH though, Anthony's Soul 15W single-ended had nearly as much balls as the copper amp, and with it a goodly dose of that SET magic, hence why it stayed in for most of the day....



I don't think a SET would suit your speakers as much as your PP does.However the most glorious sounding amp i ever heard was a 2A3 i made years ago with Lowters..was greet.

[Jonboy]

In that case ' a big thank you from me , listening to that Hugh Masekela track will live long in the memory , it was quite something to behold .

The Cd has just arrived and i'm having a quick listen before we go out :gig:

[Jonboy]

However the most glorious sounding amp i ever heard was a 2A3

I got a pair of modified 2A3 mono blocks coming next week i hope, to have a play with :)

[Rare Bird]

mine were about 3.5watt.. Jon mi owd sausage refrain from doing too many multiple posts that Laffy amps giving me an hard on :lol:

[Jonboy]

mine were about 3.5watt.. Jon mi owd sausage refrain from doing too many multiple posts that Laffy amps giving me an hard on :lol:

:eek::lolsign:

You make my cheeks ache with all the grinning i do with comments like that

[Rare Bird]

Aye my bollox ache everytime you show that amp :lol:

[technobear]

Enough with the sausages, hard-ons and aching cheeks already!

What is this place coming to? :rolleyes:

[Rare Bird]

:( Zip up

[StanleyB]

Having had a look at the pics on the wam, I couldn't help noticing quite a few of my DACs attached to some very impressive systems. Thanks guys:).

[Jonboy]

Enough with the sausages, hard-ons and aching cheeks already!

What is this place coming to? :rolleyes:

erm , i think it's called having a laugh, lighten up :rolleyes:

[technobear]

erm , i think it's called having a laugh, lighten up :rolleyes:

You must be confusing me with someone who is serious :lolsign:


You'll know if I'm ever being serious because I will add one of these: :steam:

Maybe even more than one :eyebrows:

[Marco]

I got what Chris meant, but irony is often misunderstood on forums - even when smilies are used! ;)

Marco.

[Jonboy]

You must be confusing me with someone who is serious :lolsign:


You'll know if I'm ever being serious because I will add one of these: :steam:

Maybe even more than one :eyebrows:

My apologies Chris, i try not to be too seroius myself at least i don't take myself seriously:)

[Themis]

Sausages and cheeks accommodated with irony is too spicy for forums... ;)

[Marco]

I think you mean 'accompanied' there instead, Dimitri. I'm not being pedantic (your English is excellent); I'm correcting you as I know you want to learn and continually improve it :)

Marco.

[Marco]

Meanwhile, for those of you who were impressed with the Lockwoods at Scalford Hall, now is your chance to own a pair (albeit with different drivers than I use):


http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/8854/lockwoodsonebay.jpg (http://img517.imageshack.us/i/lockwoodsonebay.jpg/)


http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Tannoy-Lockwood-Majors-15-inch-dual-concentrics-matched_W0QQitemZ220570660787QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK _AudioVideoElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_HiFiSpeakers? hash=item335b092fb3

I don't know the DU86 drivers - does anyone else know anything about them?

I wonder how much they will fetch? :)

Marco.

[DSJR]

They're HPD style drivers with "Girdacoustic" cones and probably foam surrounds. Whether they were built like this I don't know, or an older pair of drivers were blown up in the seventies Prog era and replaced (as the Virgin manor's monitors were, although I don't know what they were..).

Wish I could accommodate a pair though..

[Marco]

So 1970s era then, Dave? :)

I wonder what their 'provenence' was in terms of audio performance in comparison to Monitor Golds?

Marco.

[Rare Bird]

I think you mean 'accompanied' there instead, Dimitri. I'm not being pedantic (your English is excellent); I'm correcting you as I know you want to learn and continually improve it :)


Dimitri will learn nothing from me. :lol:

unless he favous english words from deep in the heart of the country, words such as Aye, Anorl Ageean, tha wa etc..

[Marco]

Aye, an' ah kin teach him Glaswegian, so between the two of us, we'll bamboozle him with all our mad lingo! :lol:

Marco.

[chris@panteg]

Those Lockwoods ' are pretty amazing , but impossible for me to accommodate ,
having listened to quite a few systems at Scalford ' the ideal speaker for me ' and i think it would be perfect in my listening room , is the Living Voice Auditorium ' which is a scaled down version of the OBX ' which i love but out of my price range 'even 2nd hand .

[Dave Cawley]

I don't think these are the same as Marco's?? Well, not now, they might have been once?

Dave

[Marco]

Different drive units, Dave... Mine are 15" Monitor Golds, not DU86s (as used in the Lockwoods advertised) :)

Marco.

[Dave Cawley]

Mmmmmmmmmmm thought so, just bits of wood then?

Dave

[Marco]

No they have drivers inside them - we're just not sure how good they are. In either case, the crossovers would have to be modified if they were to sound anything like my Lockwoods.

I spent about £800 on the those alone in mine (not including rather expensive VDH internal wiring)! ;)

Marco.

[Rare Bird]

I honestly believe those speakers would be better suited in different cabinets!

[bonneville]

There are empty Lockwood cabinets at £500 a pair and some with DU386 and HPD drivers on Audiojumble website if anyone is interested.

Vinnie:)

[Themis]

I think you mean 'accompanied' there instead, Dimitri. Exactly ! :o Thanks Marco. ;)

[Marco]

I honestly believe those speakers would be better suited in different cabinets!

Who knows, Andre? Anything's possible... However, the Lockwood cabinets were purpose built for the drivers for use in studios (they are very inert and solidly constructed), and very well regarded as a result :)

They certainly work superbly well with my Monitor Golds, as was reported at the show, and they sound even better at home (by a considerable margin). Granted, they're not the most attractive things in the world, but they are very effective.

Of course things can always be improved, but I'm not going to dick around with different cabinets, and possibly waste a load of money in the process, when I'm more than happy with what I've got :cool:

Marco.

[Rare Bird]

Who knows, Andre? Anything's possible... However, the Lockwood cabinets were purpose built for the drivers for use in studios (they are very inert and solidly constructed), and very well regarded as a result :)

They certainly work superbly well with my Monitor Golds, as was reported at the show, and they sound even better at home (by a considerable margin). Granted, they're not the most attractive things in the world, but they are very effective.

Of course things can always be improved, but I'm not going to dick around with different cabinets dude, and possibly waste a load of money in the process, when I'm more than happy with what I've got :cool:

Marco.
Re your crossovers, did you keep those minature frame type choke looking inductors or replace them?..Something about those bloody thinks that always made me think my crossover rebuilds were a waste of time, i felt i was always killing the pig leaving the old ones. why i never felt comfy with the Spendor BC & LS3/5a crossovers.

[pure sound]

Are your crossovers on the same kind of pcb's Marco or did you hardwire them when re-building?

[Marco]

They're all wired point-to-point, Guy, using the shortest signal paths possible. Also, the treble control switches were removed and the circuit hard-wired in the 'flat' position.

Andre,


Re your crossovers, did you keep those minature frame type choke looking inductors or replace them?


I replaced those, dude, as they were bollocks. Nothing was kept from the old crossovers...

Everything was scrapped and completely new ones built from scratch using the very best components available, then WBT speaker terminals were fitted and all the shite internal cable removed and replaced with VDH CS-14 Hybrid, which was tested against other types and sounds superb:

http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/6039/vdhinternalcable.jpg (http://img517.imageshack.us/i/vdhinternalcable.jpg/)

http://www.vandenhul.com/p_D03AF.aspx


Monitor Golds vs. DU86s (as used in the Lockwoods advertised for sale):


http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/9611/monitorgold6800.jpg (http://img101.imageshack.us/i/monitorgold6800.jpg/)


http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/3119/du86drivers.jpg (http://img697.imageshack.us/i/du86drivers.jpg/)


Marco.

[Rare Bird]

Nice.. i was coming to the level control but you got there first

[Marco]

Lol - everything's been hard-wired and simplified as far as possible. It made a huge difference compared to how they sounded when I first got them........ :)

This pic always makes me chuckle - proper speakers on top of 'toy' ones, designed for dafties who worry about WAF:

http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/2881/tannoymonitorgolds.jpg (http://img341.imageshack.us/i/tannoymonitorgolds.jpg/)

:eyebrows:

Marco.

[Rare Bird]

My wife always says no good bragging about a big un if you can't use it all. :lol:

[Marco]

Aye - never a truer word was spoken! :lol:

Marco.

[MartinT]

I'll bet mine are heavier than yours :)

[Marco]

Oh, just a tad - about three times as much, probably! :eyebrows:

Marco.

[Rare Bird]

:popcorn:

[Themis]

I'll bet mine are heavier than yours :)
I guess you beat all of us on this : no doubt ! :)

[Rare Bird]

If technobear sees this we'll be in the dog house for sure :D

[Spectral Morn]

I would be pretty sure that Steve(Twelve bears) speakers are heavier ;)than almost all of our speakers put together....slate and lots of it.


Regards D S D L

[technobear]

If technobear sees this we'll be in the dog house for sure :D


:lolsign:

[Themis]

:doh: I had forgotten Steve!! Shame on me !

[Marco]

I would be pretty sure that Steve(Twelve bears) speakers are heavier than almost all of our speakers put together....slate and lots of it.


I still don't think they'll be heavier than Martin's Ushers, Neil - perhaps if Steve's speakers were a little bit bigger...

Martin, how heavy are the Ushers again each? 136kg or something like that? :)

Marco.

[MartinT]

With the lead shot: 150kg each.

[Marco]

Hahahaha....madness! I doubt that even Steve's concrete jobbies will weigh that much, given their smaller dimensions :)

Marco.

[MartinT]

All I know is I'll have to live here to the end of my days as I have no idea how I would move them.

[Snoopdog]

All I know is I'll have to live here to the end of my days as I have no idea how I would move them.

I was hoping you could sling them in the back of a Mondeo and bring them over to my place for a listen :)

[Marco]

Mondeo? Tut tut, old boy - perish the thought! As well you know, discerning aristocrats like Martin or ourselves wouldn’t consider parking our posteriors in anything other than something German, beginning with a 'B' and ending in a 'W', or an 'M' ending in an 'S' ;)

Marco.

[Snoopdog]

Your'e right! I was just trying to appeal to the lumpen proletariat!

We could always use a bit of bubble wrap and stick them on the roofrack of my Munich motorway muncher. It's only 16 miles door to door ;)

[Marco]

You drive then and I'll go on top beside the Ushers and scare off on-coming traffic with my builder's bum!! :eyebrows:

Marco.

[Snoopdog]

You drive then and I'll go on top beside the Ushers and scare off on-coming traffic with my builder's bum!! :eyebrows:

Marco.

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

No doubt playing "Dark side of the .......... Moon" ;)

[Marco]

You know me too well! :lolsign:

Marco.

[MartinT]

I may have the correct brand of Bavarian pocket rocket, but it would take more than a lump hammer to get even one speaker into my car :)

[The Vinyl Adventure]

You will need to be more aware of the dopler effect if you do stick some speakers on a car roof! :)

[pure sound]

Now you're talking!
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i318/murrayjohnson/vw.jpg

[MartinT]

Now two of those would give you some dynamic range...

[Marco]

That'd make an excellent avatar!

Marco.

[Dave Hewitt]

Mondeo? Tut tut, old boy - perish the thought! As well you know, discerning aristocrats like Martin or ourselves wouldn’t consider parking our posteriors in anything other than something German, beginning with a 'B' and ending in a 'W', or an 'M' ending in an 'S' ;)

Marco.

Hi,
Would the begining with M and ending in S be a Morris perchance.
He He ,Dave.

[bonneville]

Hi,
Would the begining with M and ending in S be a Morris perchance.
He He ,Dave.
Minor Traveller???? must be fly tippers :lol:

Vinnie