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Ammonite Audio
28-08-2016, 10:46
I have previously heard the benefits of true mono before, courtesy of Tom (Montesquieu of this parish) but since my LP collection contains relatively few mono pressings, I have until now been in no hurry to explore mono cartridges. One of the reasons for this is that I've been enjoying stereo so much via Miyajima cartridges, and even more so since obtaining a Fidelity Research FR64S tonearm, for which the Miyajimas could well have been designed.

A little while back, one of my customers was so utterly enthralled by his Miyajima Mono Zero B cartridge (0.7 mil tip), he told me that in its way it might well be the finest cartridge that he had ever heard. So the other day another Mono Zero B was fitted to a FR64S headshell and I grabbed the first mono pressing that came to hand - Acker Bilk's Cocktails for Two, a glorious example of 60s cheesy-listening. This is an LP that already sounds very good when played with a stereo cartridge, but as soon as the tip hit the groove, the Mono Zero B delivered a sound of such majestic colour, detail and order that I was hooked. There is definitely a feeling of musical coherence that comes with playing mono with mono equipment, that stereo equipment cannot match. I know that this will be of no surprise to the growing number of people who know that the musical information cut into mono grooves is potentially way greater than for equivalent stereo grooves, but my new experience has in a moment confirmed why record companies are keen to re-issue old stuff that was originally recorded as mono, in true mono. The Beatles mono catalogue springs to mind, but I did hear on the wireless the other day that the Rolling Stones are doing the same. There is now a commercial argument for releasing this stuff as it was originally produced and I have eagerly ordered a new mono copy of Rubber Soul to compare to the 2009 remastered stereo version that I have in digital format (from the Apple USB stick).

So, call me a bit of a mono convert, with thanks to Tom. Stereo still forms the geatest proportion of my listening, but there is something liberating about not having a stereo soundstage, which means I find myself concentrating more on the music, but I do definitely feel that you get more music when playing mono LPs with a mono transducer.

I'll be exploring some of the technical aspects of mono LP reproduction in due course.

narabdela
28-08-2016, 11:28
...there is something liberating about not having a stereo soundstage.


Very true. No exotic mono cartridges in my neck of the woods, or vinyl anymore for that matter, but I'm working my way through the excellent "Decca-The Mono Years" CD box set and have found that I don't really miss the stereo soundstage.

Clive
28-08-2016, 16:16
I find the "soundscape" with mono replayed via two speakers is very lifelike. Much more like a gig than modern contrived stereo....or at least I'd say that stereo sounds contrived after a good mono session.

topoxforddoc
28-08-2016, 16:34
Mono tape sounds excellent too. I have some 15 IPS mono tapes e.g. Sonny Rollins & Ray Charles, which are sublime :)

Arkless Electronics
28-08-2016, 16:40
I have an original mono copy of "Getz and Gilberto" which has always sounded very nice:) In some ways musically better than a MFSL CD stereo copy I have....

montesquieu
28-08-2016, 17:26
Walter Legge, one-time EMI A&R man (in post-War Germany while still in the British Army) and later one of classical music's leading producers and promoters, founder of the Philharmonia Orchestra, discoverer (and later husband of ) Elizabeth Schwartzkopf, also discoverer/promoter of Karajan, Giulini, Klemperer and numerous others, is on record as late as the mid 60s (he died in 67) to the effect that Stereo was a waste of time and could never better mono in terms of communicating the musical experience.

And it's true to a large extent, music panning left and right is a bit of a gimmick once you get used to it, especially after a decent mono listening session. Back to front depth is all the soundstage you really need.

Totally concur on the Zero BTW, that's the one you would have heard at mine, along with the Premium 78 (obviously for 78s). What the Zero does is incredible, first of all it sorts out the whole front to back thing impeccably. It also resolves rhythm and tone-colour wonderfully. And it somehow generates from a mono signal a wide-band extravaganza - no little mono slot in the middle here - that allows the mind to resolve the performance in a vast, yet in L-R terms, stil mono, space. Hard to describe until you've heard it.

montesquieu
28-08-2016, 18:39
Mono tape sounds excellent too. I have some 15 IPS mono tapes e.g. Sonny Rollins & Ray Charles, which are sublime :)

That I'd love to hear.

Tea24
30-08-2016, 07:29
Try an Audio Technica AT-Mono3/LP. I have a lot of mono discs & I find this a smashing cart :)which doesn't break the bank (between £105 & 125). They also have a 78 version but I haven't tried that.

Ammonite Audio
30-08-2016, 09:32
I do stock the AT33MONO cartridge which is still fine value at £249 but the Miyajimas really are something else; and even the entry level Kotetu at £295 is a bit of a revelation. The Miyajimas are 'true' mono cartridges, in that they only have one coil, and they are mechanically locked against any vertical movement (eg no vertical compliance at all), which reduces groove noise and contributes to their coherent sound. This means a Miyajima mono cartridge cannot be used with stereo records, but that's no problem for most enthusiasts. Most other 'mono' cartridges are in effect stereo with the two coils wired together internally - these will actually be compromised and not the Real Deal: still better than a stereo cartridge trying to do the same job but not as good as a true mono cartridge like a Miyajima which is only doing one thing.

Music replay via the Miyajima Mono Zero B continues to be a revelation and I will shortly be off to my local second hand record store in search of more mono. Tom's comments above are spot on and it's interesting to consider the 'imaging' with mono for a moment. Clearly, there is no wide soundstage with mono but what you get is actually pretty much representative of many live concerts, where you don't get a stereo experience like at home. The human brain is very good at creating its own interpretation of the soundstage, leaving us to imagine the performance for ourselves and to unconsciously enjoy the music, unencumbered by overt suggestion via stereo effects. And what music there is on old mono records! I have long harboured a feeling that in the 'old days' performers, artists, recording engineers, tonmeisters etc were typically rather good at their jobs and they just got on with things as best they could. I listen mostly to classical and suspect that to sell new recordings of established pieces, performers and record companies must innovate and somehow re-interpret and 'compete' with other contemporary recordings as well as those from the early days of high fidelity recording. This need to re-interpret and compete often seems IME to result in musically confusing and unappealing performances, with notable exceptions, of course. With mono, you can live happily in the past, at its very best.

montesquieu
30-08-2016, 11:05
Try an Audio Technica AT-Mono3/LP. I have a lot of mono discs & I find this a smashing cart :)which doesn't break the bank (between £105 & 125). They also have a 78 version but I haven't tried that.

I've had a few of these (including the 78) and even had Expert re-tip one of them for use with early microgroove mono. They aren't bad for a flavour of mono and I believe are 'true' mono generating only in the horizontal aspect, though they do have vertical compliance.

The AT33Mono that Hugh talks about is actually a superior cartridge, with different internals, and for my money right up there with the equivalent Ortofon SPU mono.

As Hugo says though, the Miyajima mono cartridges are a different animal entirely.

Clive
30-08-2016, 14:19
I do stock the AT33MONO cartridge which is still fine value at £249 but the Miyajimas really are something else; and even the entry level Kotetu at £295 is a bit of a revelation. The Miyajimas are 'true' mono cartridges, in that they only have one coil, and they are mechanically locked against any vertical movement (eg no vertical compliance at all), which reduces groove noise and contributes to their coherent sound. This means a Miyajima mono cartridge cannot be used with stereo records, but that's no problem for most enthusiasts. Most other 'mono' cartridges are in effect stereo with the two coils wired together internally - these will actually be compromised and not the Real Deal: still better than a stereo cartridge trying to do the same job but not as good as a true mono cartridge like a Miyajima which is only doing one thing.

Music replay via the Miyajima Mono Zero B continues to be a revelation and I will shortly be off to my local second hand record store in search of more mono. Tom's comments above are spot on and it's interesting to consider the 'imaging' with mono for a moment. Clearly, there is no wide soundstage with mono but what you get is actually pretty much representative of many live concerts, where you don't get a stereo experience like at home. The human brain is very good at creating its own interpretation of the soundstage, leaving us to imagine the performance for ourselves and to unconsciously enjoy the music, unencumbered by overt suggestion via stereo effects. And what music there is on old mono records! I have long harboured a feeling that in the 'old days' performers, artists, recording engineers, tonmeisters etc were typically rather good at their jobs and they just got on with things as best they could. I listen mostly to classical and suspect that to sell new recordings of established pieces, performers and record companies must innovate and somehow re-interpret and 'compete' with other contemporary recordings as well as those from the early days of high fidelity recording. This need to re-interpret and compete often seems IME to result in musically confusing and unappealing performances, with notable exceptions, of course. With mono, you can live happily in the past, at its very best.
With the lack of vertical compliance does this mean processed stereo records (from the original mono) can't be played as they'd be damaged or they'd just not sound right? My Ortofon 2M Mono SE is a stereo cartridge wired for mono...I'm wondering about a Miyajima for my mono deck but ideally I'd like to play my stereo processed jazz LPs as mono as they sound better that way with the Ortofon.

montesquieu
30-08-2016, 14:44
With the lack of vertical compliance does this mean processed stereo records (from the original mono) can't be played as they'd be damaged or they'd just not sound right? My Ortofon 2M Mono SE is a stereo cartridge wired for mono...I'm wondering about a Miyajima for my mono deck but ideally I'd like to play my stereo processed jazz LPs as mono as they sound better that way with the Ortofon.

Processing was done in various different ways and there's no standard way to approach it. At the high end the multi-track tape was effectively re-allocated (panned) around the recording which can give a good facsimile of stereo from a mono original. At worst, they just buggered up the phase on one channe, often with a brief delay, to thicken up the sound. In both cases what you have is a stereo record as what's on each channel is different.

A mono cartridge that is just a stereo one strapped to merge channels won't give you a 'back to mono' result on the latter type, just a mono version of smeared stereo, though paradoxically it should sound reasonable with the former type (I think cartridges like the AT, as well as the Denon 102, are primarily aimed at reproduction of stereo records in mono).

I personally wouldn't use a pure-mono/zero vertical compliance cartridge like the Miyajima on simulated stereo as, in terms of what's on the groove, it's stereo and will get damaged. What I would do with the latter type is use a stereo cartridge, remove one phono lead and hit the mono button on the pre or phono stage to get both channels sounding the same mono signal.

On the other hand with true original mono or indeed mono reissues, the Miyajima really comes into its own.

The Black Adder
30-08-2016, 14:48
I was thinking of getting a Mono SPU at some point. I too have heard mono done properly and it's really good.

Ammonite Audio
30-08-2016, 15:15
With the lack of vertical compliance does this mean processed stereo records (from the original mono) can't be played as they'd be damaged or they'd just not sound right? My Ortofon 2M Mono SE is a stereo cartridge wired for mono...I'm wondering about a Miyajima for my mono deck but ideally I'd like to play my stereo processed jazz LPs as mono as they sound better that way with the Ortofon.

A Miyajima mono cartridge will most likely cause damage to such stereo grooves, since there is going to be a vertical component and, having no vertical suspension at all, the cartridge will resist that. I think that what you're after is a true mono cartridge with some vertical compliance and the Audio Technica AT33MONO would fit the bill - see the blurb at http://eu.audio-technica.com/cartridges/AT33MONO . I must compare it to the Miyajima Kotetu which sits in broadly the same price bracket, but I doubt that it will have the Miyajima magic.

You are welcome to try the Miyajima Mono Zero B, which is the only mono cartridge that I have on the Miyajima home dem scheme. It is a weighty thing and like all Miyajimas is very low compliance and therefore requires a weighty arm for best performance, though. What's the effective mass of your tonearms? The Mono Zero B specs are at https://ammonite-audio.co.uk/product/miyajima-zerob-mono-cartridge/

Clive
30-08-2016, 17:30
A Miyajima mono cartridge will most likely cause damage to such stereo grooves, since there is going to be a vertical component and, having no vertical suspension at all, the cartridge will resist that. I think that what you're after is a true mono cartridge with some vertical compliance and the Audio Technica AT33MONO would fit the bill - see the blurb at http://eu.audio-technica.com/cartridges/AT33MONO . I must compare it to the Miyajima Kotetu which sits in broadly the same price bracket, but I doubt that it will have the Miyajima magic.

You are welcome to try the Miyajima Mono Zero B, which is the only mono cartridge that I have on the Miyajima home dem scheme. It is a weighty thing and like all Miyajimas is very low compliance and therefore requires a weighty arm for best performance, though. What's the effective mass of your tonearms? The Mono Zero B specs are at https://ammonite-audio.co.uk/product/miyajima-zerob-mono-cartridge/

Thanks all for your advice which is pretty much what I expected. The effective mass of the arm on my mono deck (a 301) is not heavy, it's around 12.5g though I think that's for a more recent version of the arm. The arm is an Origin Live mk3. The arm on my "stereo" deck is a parallel tracking airbearing, this behaves entirely differently compared to pivoted arms, the resonant freq in the vertical plane doesn't seem to be at all critical. I would probably need a more "classic" arm on the 301 to do a Miyajima justice.

rdpx
13-09-2016, 00:58
When I was first setting up my TD-150 I briefly had a Nagaoka MP-200 and was going to buy the Nagaoka Mono stylus to switch to when playing mono records. For one reason or another this plan all went pear-shaped and I ended up putting a Jico SAS onto the original Shure cart (that I believe has been with the deck since it was new) and it all sounds great.

I do have a lot of mono records though - all original 33CX, ALP, LXT - and I am becoming curious again reading this thread as to how they might sound played "properly". If background noise pop crackle etc drops then I could maybe even recoup the cost with revised record gradings.

I have a couple of questions though. We use a Croft Integrated, so there is no "mono" button. Does this matter if using a proper mono (ie the Miyajima Kotetu) cartridge, or do they need to be played through genuine mono amp set up as well?
Looking at the Kotetu it seems it is LOMC which would need a SUT and the price maybe starts climbing further than my curiosity... I'm running the 150 with the original TP13A arm, and I have a spare headshell so they would be easily changeable if I could find a good option. I suppose I am wondering if there are any MM mono cartridges that are worth trying?

I tried to look at your Ammonite Accoustics site, Hugo, but it doesn't seem to be working. [NB. Do let me know if there are any classical mono records in particular you are looking for - I have a good selection and many of them need to go...]

R

Ammonite Audio
13-09-2016, 05:52
Hi Robert

My Ammonite Acoustics site is now solely for my acoustics consultancy, but there are forwarding links in place to https://ammonite-audio.co.uk/ which is working fine, as far as I can see.

There is no black/white requirement for a mono switch. The Miyajima mono cartridges are provided with 4 normal colour coded pins which means they play perfectly well through a stereo rig. My ANT Kora and SuperNait2 do a very good, without any hum, but where hum does become an issue, Timestep provide a little pack of RCA adapters and an instruction sheet to get around the problem. All the Miyajimas are LOMC, so yes, a SUT or MC headamp is required.

Tom might correct me, but I'm not aware of any currently available new mono cartridge, other than the Miyajimas, which is truly mono. Being true mono with no vertical compliance does mean lower groove noise - quite markedly so compared with a 'stereo compatible' mono cartridge like the AT33MONO which plays mono records better than most stereo cartridges, but not even remotely as well as a Miyajima.

I have been buying odd mono LPs from my local second hand shop, and most play remarkably well after a good clean. I'm not looking for any mono LPs in particular, but I'd be interested to know what you've got. I remain utterly stunned by true mono, and this has rather forced me to re-calibrate my musical preferences!

Clive
13-09-2016, 06:27
Has anyone tried the Kotetu? It seems like the Zero B is the best. If I were to go true mono the Zero is likely where I'd end up as once I get to the price of the BE I might as well push it to the Zero. So....either Kotetu or Zero. Then I need to work out whether my OL Encounter would cope, possibly with some headshell added weight.

Ammonite Audio
13-09-2016, 07:27
Has anyone tried the Kotetu? It seems like the Zero B is the best. If I were to go true mono the Zero is likely where I'd end up as once I get to the price of the BE I might as well push it to the Zero. So....either Kotetu or Zero. Then I need to work out whether my OL Encounter would cope, possibly with some headshell added weight.

I have a customer with the Kotetu and he was very impressed with it - it is electrically a little different from the BE and Zero and has a simple plastic body, but the tip is the same conical diamond as fitted to the rest of the range.

I do agree with you about the BE - good as it is, the price is not that far off the price of a Zero, so why not go a small step further to what may well be the finest mono cartridge available? I do believe that, in the context of mono, the Zero is possibly the finest cartridge available at any price - testament to Mr Miyajima's roots as a designer and builder of mono cartridges (the stereo ones came later).

Because the Miyajima cartridges have no vertical compliance and work at relatively high tracking force, I'm not sure how much effective mass actually matters, as long as it's 'medium' or higher. I have a Zero customer who uses a Graham Phantom arm, to very good effect (it seems neither Graham nor Origin Live quote effective mass). The surefire way of finding out if a Zero works in your arm is to try it, and you're welcome to give my demo Zero B a go.

Clive
13-09-2016, 07:32
Thank you Hugo. I'll be in contact with you in October as I'll be on holiday last week on this month. It seems I must try the Zero!

petrat
13-09-2016, 07:42
Mono LPs are a bit of a specialist hobby in themselves. Putting aside the ancient ones that require exotic variations of the RIAA compensation, am I right in saying that most of the ones we see from the fifties and sixties are 1 mil ones (25 micro-metres). Presumably recent re-issues are 0.7 mil (18 micro-metre) jobs? The reason I ask is that looking on the Timestep distributor site, they have links to an article from Hifi World on the Zero, saying the .7 stylus is considerably inferior to the 1 mil one for older recordings. In other words, if someone (me!) wanted only one, what should they get? Ortofon, for instance, offer only 18 micro-metre stylii on their regular mono cartidges, but 25 on their SPUs, so even they seem confused!

Clive
13-09-2016, 09:02
Good question Peter! I'm in the same boat. Quite a number of 50s and 60s jazz LPs but also a few reissues including the Beatles set.

I also would like a 3mm tip for 78. Maybe I need 3 arms or an arm with an exchangable headshell and easy to reset VTF.

montesquieu
13-09-2016, 10:30
Mono LPs are a bit of a specialist hobby in themselves. Putting aside the ancient ones that require exotic variations of the RIAA compensation, am I right in saying that most of the ones we see from the fifties and sixties are 1 mil ones (25 micro-metres). Presumably recent re-issues are 0.7 mil (18 micro-metre) jobs? The reason I ask is that looking on the Timestep distributor site, they have links to an article from Hifi World on the Zero, saying the .7 stylus is considerably inferior to the 1 mil one for older recordings. In other words, if someone (me!) wanted only one, what should they get? Ortofon, for instance, offer only 18 micro-metre stylii on their regular mono cartidges, but 25 on their SPUs, so even they seem confused!


Indeed a bit specialist ... I have three mono cartridges at the moment, the Miyaima Zero 0.7m tip (not sure if that's A or B) and an Ortofon GM Mono Mk II which has a 1.0 tip. I also have a Miyajima Premium 78, for 78s, and a set of Shure M44/7s with three different stylus assemblies for different eras of 78.

Records run in these broad categories (though dates aren't a huge help)

* 78s - in general these got thinner grooves as time went on, most of the stuff around is late 40s-50s stuff which on the whole is suitable for 2.5 which is what the fancier 78 cartridges are like the Miyajima, as indeed were most 'turnover' cartridges from the 50s and early 60s. This is Ok with earlier stuff but groove noise can be reduced by using thicker tips on early 78s. My Shure tips (from Expert Stylus) are 2.7, 3.0 and 3.5, the latter is which is what you'll need for 1920s stuff.
* Early microgroove - this is for records that don't actually say 'mono' on them because there was no stereo at the time. These tend to be thicker vinyl and a thicker groove, so take a 1.0 stylus. In theory microgroove was current up to 1958 or so when pressing plants converted to stereo and started producing their mono records with stereo cutting heads and a narrower groove - but in reality wider groove records were made up till much later and it's not that unusual to find records that look and feel like microgroove made right into the 1960s - so I would tend to use whatever stylus sounds best. I use my Ortofon 'SPU' Mono GM for this early mono stuff.
* 'Modern' records - both mono and stereo, and reissues, are best played with a 0.7 stylus. If you are most interested in playing later mono and reissues, get a 0.7 mono tip (that's what my Miyajima Zero is).

'Real mono' cartridges have coils that only pick up signals in the horizontal dimension,which means any vertical groove noise is not even picked up - they can therefore sound quieter in the groove. Original mono cartridges from the 1950s had no vertical compliance and the tip only moved in the horizontal plane, hence all the dire warnings on early stereo LPs not to play them with a mono cartridge which can truly wreck a stereo groove. Later quite a few cartridges came about which turned stereo into mono through summing electrically a pair of stereo coils (like a mono button does) these include the Denon 102 which also has curtailed frequency response as it was designed for playing stereo records on mono AM radio stations! These were just stereo cartridges strapped for mono and quite a few so-called mono cartridges out there (such as the Grado ones) are of this type. Two kind of modern 'real mono' cartridges exist, Ortofon, Lyra, Miyajima, Ikeda, Koetsu, AT and others do make mono cartridges, in general they have mono coils which are angled only to capture horizontal movement, but however are not like the Miyajima or early mono cartridges in that they DO have vertical compliance (and won't wreck your records if used incorrectly), though there is some small compromise in the quality of the mono that comes out. For me this is one of the selling points of the Miyajima.

RIAA is another thing altogether. One of the challenges in record mastering is the different amplitide of sound at different frequencies - if you just acoustically placed a recording on a groove, the bass would knock the stylus about, and if reduced to manageable proporions, you wouldn't hear the treble. So a curve is applied to reduce bass according to a mathematical formula, to fit the sound on the groove, and the inverse of this curve is applied at the phono stage. Prior to about 1956 (and all through the 78 era) different companies had their own version of this curve. In 1956 it was standardised on the RIAA which was already in use in several places. At least the standard was applied in theory anwyay, the reality is that different curves persisted to some extent (mainly by accident or ignorance) even into the stereo era. I have a box called an Esoteric Re-equalizer that enables a correction to be applied AFTER the phono stage to correct for non-riaa equalisations. There are other solutions such as the Graham Slee Jazz Club phono stage where you can dial pre-RIAA curves up at the phono stage itself. Fixing this makes early mono far more pleasurable.

BTW also there's confusion on how the tip size is expressed:

0.7. 1.0 and 2.5 mil are frequently used to describe the tip and are based on the radius of the tip at the wide part of the cone, but measurements in µm are also seen which take their lead from the groove dimension - 18µm for standard groove, 25µm for microvroove, 65µm for later 78 ... ortofon have a series of no vertical compliance cartridges in SPU-type headshells named around this measurement principle.

petrat
13-09-2016, 13:47
Brilliant, Tom ... thanks!

Clive
13-09-2016, 16:12
Thanks Tom for taking the time to write such a full response. You've confirmed my expections that it's all downhill and I may end up with several cartridges.

rdpx
18-09-2016, 18:08
Hi Robert

My Ammonite Acoustics site is now solely for my acoustics consultancy, but there are forwarding links in place to https://ammonite-audio.co.uk/ which is working fine, as far as I can see.

There is no black/white requirement for a mono switch. The Miyajima mono cartridges are provided with 4 normal colour coded pins which means they play perfectly well through a stereo rig. My ANT Kora and SuperNait2 do a very good, without any hum, but where hum does become an issue, Timestep provide a little pack of RCA adapters and an instruction sheet to get around the problem. All the Miyajimas are LOMC, so yes, a SUT or MC headamp is required.

Tom might correct me, but I'm not aware of any currently available new mono cartridge, other than the Miyajimas, which is truly mono. Being true mono with no vertical compliance does mean lower groove noise - quite markedly so compared with a 'stereo compatible' mono cartridge like the AT33MONO which plays mono records better than most stereo cartridges, but not even remotely as well as a Miyajima.

I have been buying odd mono LPs from my local second hand shop, and most play remarkably well after a good clean. I'm not looking for any mono LPs in particular, but I'd be interested to know what you've got. I remain utterly stunned by true mono, and this has rather forced me to re-calibrate my musical preferences!
I've got all sorts from £5 records to rare £500 ones... Basically a cross section of 1950s classical, piano, violin, orchestral.

I'm leaning towards getting a mono cartridge to see how much of the background noise disappears on some of the noisier ones, but right now an SUT and a kotetu are not realistically in my price range, especially as I would also then feel need to get an MC stereo cart, and a new tone arm...

I'm wondering if anyone has any advice about what I should try out? Looking about it seems that an AT MONO3/LP would easily fit budget and work in my system (croft) without need for a SUT. The 2M MONO also might fit, but I'd need to drill out my spare HS.

R


Sent from my GT-I9195 using Tapatalk

montesquieu
18-09-2016, 18:28
Just to clarify there is some confusion about what 'true mono' means when it comes to how that term is used

The Miyajimas are **almost** the only new production I'm aware of that have no vertical compliance, Ortofon do make two designs based on the old mono 'C' cartridges which also have zero compliance - the SPU Mono CG 25 Di and 65 DI models, for early microgroove and 78 cartridges respectively - I haven't actually heard these. They are quite different (in design and specification) to Ortofon's other mono cartridge, the one I have (the SPU Mono GM) has vertical compliance.

So it could be argued that the only 'true mono' catridges are these Ortofons (quite rare and out of stock on Ortofon.com at the moment) and the Miyajimas. If you want to hear mono - especially early mono - the way it should be heard, this is the way to go.

However many cartridge makers who have cartridges where the generator pics up signal only in the mono plane (in theory anyway) - this usually involves rotating the coil (some have more than one 'mono' coil, confusingly) - label their cartridges 'true mono' to distinguish them from cheaper mono cartridges out there which just electrically sum the stereo output into a single signal - as I think I sort of stated in my previous ramble, the 'true mono but vertically compliant' list includes cartridges from Koetsu, Lyra, AT (the higher end ones) and others. These do the job in some cases very well indeed, but I think the sheer scale and coherence of the mono output from the Miyajimas comes in significant measure from the 'no compliance' approach.

Then there are the strapped mono catridges like Grado, the cheaper ATs, Denon 102 and a few others (I think including the 2M Mono though I'd need to dig into that one), which turn a stereo signal into mono in a similar way to a mono button on the amp. They work fine but you are not really getting the benefit of a true mono cartridge.

Of course if you ask the manufacturer if it's 'true mono' they'll all always say yes ....


EDIT came across this today, useful review in Stereophile .. fascainating that even though he's reviewing the Ortofon cartridges his sign-off recommends Miyajima' mono range http://www.stereophile.com/content/listening-148#0r8Ws4rxZCY73Axm.97 ...

rdpx
22-09-2016, 08:43
EDIT came across this today, useful review in Stereophile .. fascainating that even though he's reviewing the Ortofon cartridges his sign-off recommends Miyajima' mono range http://www.stereophile.com/content/listening-148#0r8Ws4rxZCY73Axm.97 ...

This is very interesting. I'm leaning towards a stereo cart bridged to be "mono" and fitting it with a 1.0mil conical diamond stylus, possibly with a 0.7mil in reserve.

A Kotetu lies in the future for me though, I hope.

montesquieu
22-09-2016, 09:54
This is very interesting. I'm leaning towards a stereo cart bridged to be "mono" and fitting it with a 1.0mil conical diamond stylus, possibly with a 0.7mil in reserve.

A Kotetu lies in the future for me though, I hope.

You can bridge it yourself with a bit of fine wire looped in a figure of 8 around between '+' pins and '-' pins respectively ... but it won't sound as good as one that only picks up what's in the horizontal plane, you still get all the vertical hash.

rdpx
22-09-2016, 22:28
You can bridge it yourself with a bit of fine wire looped in a figure of 8 around between '+' pins and '-' pins respectively ... but it won't sound as good as one that only picks up what's in the horizontal plane, you still get all the vertical hash.
I know it won't sound as good, I've been reading about it for days! :) But I'm looking at £80 rather than £800, and I don't need ultimate mono just now, simply a way to see if some records play more cleanly.

I have been offered the loan of an SUT today, so I may see if I can borrow a Miyajima sometime and find out what it's all about...

R

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walpurgis
22-09-2016, 22:38
In the sixties, mono was what most people had. When stereo came along it was a revelation in comparison and everybody that heard it, wanted it!

montesquieu
23-09-2016, 13:34
In the sixties, mono was what most people had. When stereo came along it was a revelation in comparison and everybody that heard it, wanted it!

Indeed .. but there is something very satisfying in getting the best out of original mono recordings that in many cases sound flat, dull and boring on kit optimised for stereo ....

rdpx
23-09-2016, 16:04
Indeed .. but there is something very satisfying in getting the best out of original mono recordings that in many cases sound flat, dull and boring on kit optimised for stereo ....
I wouldn't have described any of the old classical recordings as flat dull and lifeless by any means. In fact many of them sound fantastic. It's only the crackles that I have really been concerned about.

montesquieu
23-09-2016, 16:06
I wouldn't have described any of the old classical recordings as flat dull and lifeless by any means. In fact many of them sound fantastic. It's only the crackles that I have really been concerned about.

London isn't too far away you've be welcome to come round and have a listen to my mono setup.

rdpx
23-09-2016, 16:11
London isn't too far away you've be welcome to come round and have a listen to my mono setup.
I may well take you up on that sometime.

Ammonite Audio
23-09-2016, 17:44
Building on from my mono revelations, I was tempted to buy the 2014 Beatles Mono boxed set, but settled insted for just Rubber Soul and Sgt Pepper's. The LPs arrived today and I eagerly sat down to listen, via the Miyajima Mono Zero B on my trusty TD-124/FR64S.

What a let down! I think I've been spoiled by the very good 2009 Beatles remasters (which I have on the Apple USB stick). The 2009 remastering was done very well, so I did not expect these new mono LPs, taken from original analogue masters, to be anything but excellent. But, the recordings are a tad flat and compared to the 2009 remastered albums, slightly distorted. I'm so glad that I didn't buy the whole boxed set!

Fortunately, I have plenty of mono gems, some very old, that sound excellent, so it's nothing to do with my hardware. I think that in future I'll stick to buying old mono records, rather than new ones.

petrat
08-10-2016, 09:14
A quick look through my LPs revealed I only have fewer than 50 mono ones, so can't really justify spending too much on a cartridge for them. So, I've been looking around, and have just managed to pick up an ex-dem AT33 Mono at a very good price. This has a 0.65 stylus, so should be good as I'll probably be buying modern re-releases of jazz classics. The specs for it seem to indicate it has a fairly stiff vertical compliance ... but, presumably vertical compliance is only relevant in terms of matching with an arm that keeps it in the groove (as there are no vertical signals)? I also assume that a longer arm would be best, to minimise horizontal distortions?

Anwyay, I potentially have a choice of arms and headshells for it, and was wondering if anyone has any experience with this cartridge on how to get the best from it?

Mike - H
08-10-2016, 11:16
About 20% of my modest record collection is mono, so I'm considering having pop at this. First question, I have a RB300 lying around, would this be a suitable arm for this project?

Ammonite Audio
08-10-2016, 12:35
About 20% of my modest record collection is mono, so I'm considering having pop at this. First question, I have a RB300 lying around, would this be a suitable arm for this project?

I suspect not, at least for Miyajima mono cartridges but there is a simple way of finding out! My Miyajima mono cartridges track at fairly hefty VTF, so that's probably enough to keep the tip securely in the groove, but a good amount of effective mass is still required in the horizontal plane. The AT33MONO compliance specs suggest that this too has very low dynamic compliance, so it may be a challenge to find a good mono cartridge that sings in an RB300. If you want to have a go at mono, then my advice is to do it with a true mono cartridge, eg one that has coils that operate only in the horizontal plane - most are adapted stereo cartridges that still have pairs of coils 90 degrees apart, electrically strapped to produce a 'mono' output, but that output will contain an element of vertical stylus movement, which in the case of a mono LP is extraneous noise, not music.

A lighthearted thought - a Dynavector arm would probably work very well with mono, what with such colossal lateral effective mass!

Mike - H
09-10-2016, 10:13
This matching of carts to arms is a complete and utter mystery to me, would my Jelco handle a mono cartridge? I'm assuming thats what the heavier counterweight is for, And would the upgraded RB300 do a good job on the stereo front with the Nagaoka MP-200.

Ammonite Audio
09-10-2016, 11:00
This matching of carts to arms is a complete and utter mystery to me, would my Jelco handle a mono cartridge? I'm assuming thats what the heavier counterweight is for, And would the upgraded RB300 do a good job on the stereo front with the Nagaoka MP-200.

Your Jelco is a highish mass arm and very well suited to low compliance cartridges of any kind, let alone mono. Also, you have the opportunity to tweak its overall effective mass by using different headshells. So, out of your two arms, I would say that the Jelco is a better bet for a mono adventure.

On the other hand, your Rega would be nicely matched in terms of mass and compliance to the MP-200.