View Full Version : A session at Maccas Mansion
I eventually got together for a session with Martin( Macca) after a number of aborted attempts and I would like to than Martin for being a generous host and allowing me to hear his kit.
I took the Lenco GL75 I had refurbished / serviced earlier in the year as Martin was keen to hear it. The session was not a bake off as such but a nice casual get together, I must admit I ended up with a dry throat after chatting so much:)
I think we both have common roots in seventies stuff, both music and equipment and on more than one occasion we pondered just how far Hifi had really come and the fact you could furnish yourself with an excellent system based around ancient and modern equipment at a very reasonable outlay.
It was good to hear Martins Technics SL1200 as I had not heard one in completely stock form and it acquitted itself very well indeed, it certainly did the job especially with a Nagaoka MP50 stylus. Really nice smooth full sound that was fairly laid back but allowed enough information to satisfy, indeed this could certainly be used for long listening sessions without fatigue. Hopefully Martin will fill the post with details of his other equipment we used but a do remember the Firebottle phono stage was used into a passive and we listened to Akai speakers for the whole evening.
These speakers as Martin will agree are not the last word in resolution but they satisfy the listener in an earthy organic kind of way. Surprisingly even though they have an abundant of tweeters, four I think! they are certainly not bright sounding but do give a nice weighty sound.
Second half of the session was with the Lenco M55/ Jico SAS set up. This brought about a lift in the overall immediacy of the sound with probably more detail and a much livelier sound. We played jazz, rock and MOR :) throughout the evening and I think the Lenco brought about a powerful metronomic quality to the sound. The drive and constancy of reproduction is very apparent and makes for compelling listening especially to rock driven music? They definitely got some things right in the 70's!
I shall probably bring this Turntable to MIBO In November.
Once again thanks for a great evening Martin and a very nice curry!
Jim it was great to see you again and listen to your turntable.
Should point out I didn't cook the curry, we went to a restaurant around the corner...
I did a post on my lash up thread but I'll move it here:
James (Jimbo) came round for a listen to my lash-up and to give me a listen to his Goldring Lenco GL75 deck. I love going to listen to other folk's systems as it is always the best way to learn what works and what doesn't, and hear some kit that you won't get at dealers or shows. Equally I like it when people come for a listen to my set up, especially if they are happy to be honest in their impressions, firstly because I think we are all capable of getting into a situation with our efforts where we can't see the wood for the trees, and secondly because it can often confirm what we think we think about how our system sounds and what could be improved, but are still unsure.
Of course people are polite and so sometimes won't be entirely honest or will at least sugar coat their negative opinion. Ideally you want constructive criticism, not the sort an old friend used to give me, which never amounted to more than 'Sounds shit that does, mate.' Not that he wasn't being honest, and indeed was right, but a bit of further analysis wouldn't hurt.
So Jim comes round with said Lenco to which he has fitted a Shure M55 (I think) with the after market Jico micro-ridge stylus. We kicked off with some music on CD. Jim is an all vinyl man but has a mate who sells high end digital systems so has heard digital done well. Usually when I have folk round they are non-plussed by the set up - sitting a long way from the speakers, which are antique and sit on the floor. Everyone has a hard time with this. It take a bit of acclimatisation. Anyway James confirmed what I already knew which is that it sounds clean, pleasant and relaxing, but isn't going to win any awards for awesomeness. However when it was considered that the whole set up came in at less than £1500 (including interconnect and speaker cables) putting that into context he agreed it was a pretty good sound for the money.
Next up Vinyl and before we put the Lenco in Jim wanted a listen to my Technics. I haven't listened to it in months, in fact the phono stage wasn't even hooked up. Once that was sorted we played some big band jazz (Marty Paitch) - sounded better than I remembered it doing. The deck is stock with stock arm, a Nagaoka MP500 and a cork mat. I swapped the mat out for a Funk Firm achromat and played the same tune again, just to demonstrate the difference in presentation which we both agreed was quite marked. Compared to the cork the Achromat seems to clear things up a little, loses a little warmth, and moves the soundstage back quite a bit.
So next we put the Lenco in. I've heard GL75s before and I like the way they balance drive and good timing with good 'air and space', the lack of the latter being the only real issue with the stock Technics deck/arm combo. The GL75 has the original arm and headshell, which most users dispose of, but the alternative approach of simply rerfurbing it and keeping it on the grounds that they are nothing like as bad as they look is gaining traction. We did struggle manfully to get the little anti-skate weight hooked on, but as we are both approaching old codgersville with a rate of knots, neither us had the eyesight or steadiness of hand to manage it. We decided to agree that anti-skate is just foo and pressed on without it.
First up was a copy of AC-DC 'High Voltage' I picked up a couple of years ago and which has been awaiting a clean and a play ever since. Duly scrubbed we stuck it on.
Clearly this was a good sounding deck/cart - right from the off it was 'big and ballsy' - the cart reminded me of the Nagaoka MP15 I used to use in my Technics, which has the same big-boned presentation that suits the system (and particularly the speakers which are quite bass-shy when sat out into the room), what it didn't have was the MP15s mediocre performance on the inner grooves. Being mainly a digital man I can't be doing with inner groove distortion or speed fluctuation, this Lenco/Shure combination committed neither of those errors.
I have this album on re-mastered CD, and whilst I think it is easier to hear the actual recording on the CD, the vinyl version certainly communicated the essence of the music much better. It was just more fun to listen to this album on vinyl than on CD. If you want to distill it down, it is simply intellect versus emotion.
The big band LP was just 'bigger' compared to the SL1200/Nagaoka MP500 combo. We probably were listening at higher SPL but even taking that into account the whole sound was just bigger and more expansive. James remarked that it made the speakers seem bigger than they are. I felt it was like being at the cinema. The recording is live, although probably has some overdubs, but the venue it was recorded in was right there behind and around the speakers. Not quite 'cavernous' but getting there. And that probably isn't the limitation of the deck/cart but the speakers (which don't image that well) and my room.
Even with the high SPL we were listening at, there was never any point with anything we played where it got harsh, or shouty, or needed turning down. That's the benefit of having a powerful amplifier driving high efficiency loudspeakers. Nothing ever sounded forced. We put on Brothers In Arms, an original copy from 1985: dynamics on 'The Man's Too Strong' were actually a bit frightening.
We totted up the cost of this lash up with the Lenco and found it came in at under two grand. Believe me, for what we were hearing this was a nonsense: when I think of systems heard at shows and dealers where just the mains conditioners or the cartridge cost more than £2K, and which are totally uninvolving and even unpleasant to listen to, it gives some kind of context. Just chucking money at the problem is not the way to audio Nirvana, folks! (Although money helps, obviously )
James remarked that his own system, (Croft/Spendor), sounds very different to mine even with the same deck and cartridge, having a brighter balance and being much clearer through the mid-range. This was interesting to me, since it confirmed what I already thought which is that the Akai speakers, although having some wonderful strengths that you just don't get in most modern speakers, are slightly veiled. Although this means they are always listenable, even with the roughest recording and at high SPL, they are never going to win awards for resolution/breathtaking detailing and soundstaging.
So yes, if I want to make a genuine improvement to the system, rather than just change it, I need to upgrade the speakers. Which I knew already, but as I said at the outset it helps to have these thing clarified by others. I think we both enjoyed the listening we did immensely though. And Jim's Lenco, which owes him just a couple of hundred quid, most of which was the cost of the Jico stylus, is an absolutely cracking deck. I know they have crept up to about £100 for a decent one now, but that is still a major bargain, possibly the biggest bargain in vinyl replay right now.
Firebottle
07-08-2016, 16:46
Nice write up both. Have to agree the Lenco is a bargain vinyl spinner.
Martin do you remember the sound when I brought around my B & W 603s? I can't recall what your feelings were at the time :doh:
Possibly a bit 'hi-fi'?
I do. Seem to recall they were still a bit too small for the room. The B&W 683 is one I have under consideration as a turnkey solution. I might yet move back towards a more 'hi-fi' speaker.
:worthless:
;)
Nice write-ups, chaps. I'm glad you guys had a great time, and these little 'get togethers' are an important part of growing the AoS community, but can I please ask that in future someone takes a few snaps of the equipment used?
Pages of prose, outlining what happened, is all good and well, but a few piccies really does brighten things up and adds some more interest to folks reading! :cool:
Oh, no surprises here that Lencos sound fab ;) Well, done, Jim!
Marco.
Oh okay then.
System - Technics SL1200, Nagaoka MP50 with MP500 stylus, Sony SCD XB790QS CD player, NVA P90 SA stepped attenuator passive, into power amp section of an XTZ A100. Off to the right is the phonostage, a Firebottle plus MM valve job
http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac233/Macca_photos_2009/Oct%202015%20002_1.jpg (http://s903.photobucket.com/user/Macca_photos_2009/media/Oct%202015%20002_1.jpg.html)
Speakers used, Akai SW175 from 1973
http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac233/Macca_photos_2009/akai2001.jpg (http://s903.photobucket.com/user/Macca_photos_2009/media/akai2001.jpg.html)
Jim's Goldring Lenco GL75
http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k424/Spendorsp2/image_zps3fo9nxyl.jpeg (http://s326.photobucket.com/user/Spendorsp2/media/image_zps3fo9nxyl.jpeg.html)
Music - top album this but you have to buy it on vinyl as they want silly money for the CD. No hardship really, sounds excellent.
http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac233/Macca_photos_2009/MartyPaichTheNewYorkScene471006.jpg (http://s903.photobucket.com/user/Macca_photos_2009/media/MartyPaichTheNewYorkScene471006.jpg.html)
Much better! Why didn't you post those before, even though they weren't taken on the day?
If you'd put them in the middle of the prose, contained in your write-up, or somewhere else strategic, it would've cheered things up no end :)
But next time, activate the camera apps on your smart phones, folks, as with the instantaneous technology available at our fingertips today, there's no excuse for threads like these not containing pics! ;)
Marco.
It's just stock footage, we didn't take any photos on the day.
Actually I lie. Lyndsey and her mates came round, bored, but I told them we were busy. I gave them ten bob each and they went off down the shops, I took a photo of that as I knew you wouldn't believe me. You can see she wasn't happy:
http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac233/Macca_photos_2009/LLphoto.jpg (http://s903.photobucket.com/user/Macca_photos_2009/media/LLphoto.jpg.html)
Heh-heh... I've always admired that little pink pelmet of hers, sorry 'skirt'! :eyebrows:
Marco.
They gave me a new computer at work and couldn't be arsed to put the corporate wallpaper on the desktop so guess who I have a picture of on there? Got away with it so far.
They gave me a new computer at work and couldn't be arsed to put the corporate wallpaper on the desktop so guess who I have a picture of on there? Got away with it so far.
didnt think yo cared;)
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