Audio inovations l1?

[The Vinyl Adventure]

We got one of these things at another branch, is it any good? How much is it worth? I got these gain clones that don't like my passive pre or the Beresford as a pre but seem happy enough with kit that has a built in psu... Something to do with grounding(?) dunno ... Anyway I wa thinking of getting a different cheap power amp but I could prob have this pre pretty cheap and put it with the gainclones for my studio system ....
Any thoughts?

[The Vinyl Adventure]

anyone?

[Spectral Morn]

Hi Hamish


Its quite good, in its day. However it is a wee bit fussy about what its hooked up to. AI kit worked best within its own product range. Its worth borrowing and trying though. I like AI amplifiers I use a pair of Series 1000 mk3s and I play with an AI series 500 from time to time, but when I played with an AI series 1000 pre recently (a passive I once lusted after) I didn't think much of it....my EAR pre was much better.

I can't remember whether its the half sized one or the full sized one. What its worth? Only what you are willing to pay. In your case what ever your shop has allowed for it as a trade in + vat and any profit they want or not as the case may be. PM me with the amount and I will tell you what I think.

Ask Guy of Puresound as he worked for AI at the time the L1 and L2 pre amplifiers came out.

Regards D S D L

[alfie2902]

I just got one of these little L1's delivered today! I picked it up for pence & it's singing very sweetly into my WAD KEL84. It is half size & only one little ECC82 double triode in an Anode follower circuit, so i'm told :confused: sounds very nice though. If the price is right go for it! :cool:

[Spectral Morn]

Yes its the little one.


http://i372.photobucket.com/albums/oo163/kick_takers/l1_3.jpg

http://www.tokopedia.com/img/product/1649/pic_1649_76c75bd6-8bb5-11de-a176-0015178e1aa7.jpg

Its not bad L2 is much better though.


Regards D S D L

[The Vinyl Adventure]

cheers neil, i have it being sent up to worcester for saturday.
il see how i get on and let you know
pm on its way

[The Vinyl Adventure]

I just got one of these little L1's delivered today! I picked it up for pence & it's singing very sweetly into my WAD KEL84. It is half size & only one little ECC82 double triode in an Anode follower circuit, so i'm told :confused: sounds very nice though. If the price is right go for it! :cool:

how much did you pay, if you dont mind me asking.. pm me if you like

[The Vinyl Adventure]

its looks pretty cool dunt it!

[Mike]

I just got one of these little L1's delivered today! I picked it up for pence & it's singing very sweetly into my WAD KEL84. It is half size & only one little ECC82 double triode in an Anode follower circuit, so i'm told :confused: sounds very nice though. If the price is right go for it! :cool:

Huh!... say what?

Cathode follower perchance? ;)

[alfie2902]

how much did you pay, if you dont mind me asking.. pm me if you like

PM sent Hamish.

[alfie2902]

Huh!... say what?

Cathode follower perchance? ;)

You might well be right Mike, I haven't got a clue tbh!:confused:

But was told that they rejected the cathode follower configuration for an anode follower circuit as it sounded better, but it all means nothing to me :confused:

[Mike]

Ahhh... hang on!. I thought for a min that it's something I've never heard of. But I have!

Only I heard it referred to as 'plate' follower! It's the same thing! :doh:

I've no experience of it, so it didn't ring a bell, sorry. :(

[bigmoog]

here's my L1 wot I bought new back then, its modified with FranklandCapacitors and a ricardoStepped attenuator.....I originally used it in a second system and it provided good service - it replaced a Rose RV23 which I regret selling.

The L1 is a nice basic sounding pre, nothing a Croft wont be scared of eh Dave ? :smoking::smoking::smoking::gig: it is flat and shiny compared to my slushy SP8 and Sp10


http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f78/bigmoog/Naim-666.jpg


the headphones are AT electrets in case anyone is not interested

Please note the advanced high-end CABLELOOM

[REM]

here's my L1 wot I bought new back then, its modified with FranklandCapacitors and a ricardoStepped attenuator....

No doubt these mods gave the L1 an Absolute Flat Response.....:lolsign: (Chris)FranklandCapacitors and a Ricardo (whatsisname) Absolute SoundsStepped thing...

alright I'll get me coat....

[DSJR]

Why not get in touch with Guy at Puresound (that's his online monika). There was a thread on PF about these IIRC and he designed them (again, IIRC).

He may be able to recommend some sensible updates to it and hifi Dave tells me he's a good guy to deal with..

[Spectral Morn]

Why not get in touch with Guy at Puresound (that's his online monika). There was a thread on PF about these IIRC and he designed them (again, IIRC).

He may be able to recommend some sensible updates to it and hifi Dave tells me he's a good guy to deal with..


Yes Guy is one of the good guys. I have known him for years...more than I care to remember, though until he had Puresound I had not spoken to him in quite awhile; since the Audio innovations days (except for meeting him at the odd audio show) Edit and on AOS recently of course


Regards D S D L

[alfie2902]

Here's a link to the thread on PFM. Quite a good read.

http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showthread.php?t=47929&page=2

I also read somewhwere of Guy commenting on hearing an L1 recently that had been rebuilt point to point wired & was quite impressed IIRC.

bigmoog how much improvement did modding the L1 with Frankland Capacitors and a Ricardo Stepped attenuator make?

I bought the L1 as a stepping stone until I've sold my Expo's, but it's doing a better job than I expected :) so who knows what will happen, Just wish I had some basic electronics knowledge & better soldering skills!

Cheers, alfie

EDIT; Just re-read the thread I linked & the point to point rewired comment is in the same thread :doh:

[bigmoog]

Here's a link to the thread on PFM. Quite a good read.

http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showthread.php?t=47929&page=2

I also read somewhwere of Guy commenting on hearing an L1 recently that had been rebuilt point to point wired & was quite impressed IIRC.

bigmoog how much improvement did modding the L1 with Frankland Capacitors and a Ricardo Stepped attenuator make?

I bought the L1 as a stepping stone until I've sold my Expo's, but it's doing a better job than I expected :) so who knows what will happen, Just wish I had some basic electronics knowledge & better soldering skills!

Cheers, alfie


well, It has superb foot tappability and pure Rankinian/Collomsish PRAT aligned with awesome detail, huge enveloping soundstage,harmonic thoroughness and extended highs.....also the noise floor is so low, one can hear what type of velour the chairs of Carnegie Hall are made from.


siriusly , I modded the L1 with a TDK stepped attenuator and had new caps fitted, so now it sounds slightly 'fatter' and less 'shiny' if you know wot me means.....I also changed the stock ECC82 for a NOS Kremlin Cryo-Tube

[alfie2902]

well, It has superb foot tappability and pure Rankinian/Collomsish PRAT aligned with awesome detail, huge enveloping soundstage,harmonic thoroughness and extended highs.....also the noise floor is so low, one can hear what type of velour the chairs of Carnegie Hall are made from.


siriusly , I modded the L1 with a TDK stepped attenuator and had new caps fitted, so now it sounds slightly 'fatter' and less 'shiny' if you know wot me means.....I also changed the stock ECC82 for a NOS Kremlin Cryo-Tube

Thanks for that bigmoog!

Yes I understand what you mean by 'Shiny'! My WAD KEL84 is the one input version with a volume pot & If I run a source straight into the KEL it sounds a little 'Fatter' But the L1 seems to add a little more detail & gives me a little more gain for my phono stage :)

Cheers, alfie

[Ali Tait]

Alfie,the pre is probably driving the amp better than the source is capable of.It may also provide better impedance matching.As for tweaking it,look no further than Hi-Fi Collective for some boutique capacitors and a stepped attenuator at good prices.The best caps I've heard are the SCR teflons,but these are seriously expensive.A very cheap cap are the Sonique (made by Clarity Cap) range sold by WD.These are stonking value for money at less than a fiver each.You have several in your KEL! ;)

[alfie2902]

Alfie,the pre is probably driving the amp better than the source is capable of.It may also provide better impedance matching.As for tweaking it,look no further than Hi-Fi Collective for some boutique capacitors and a stepped attenuator at good prices.The best caps I've heard are the SCR teflons,but these are seriously expensive.A very cheap cap are the Sonique (made by Clarity Cap) range sold by WD.These are stonking value for money at less than a fiver each.You have several in your KEL! ;)

Hi Ali,

Thanks for the advice mate! :) I'm not sure if I'll tweak the L1 or not, I bought it to 'get me by' until I sell the Expo's, but it is performing rather better than I imagined into the KEL84! :)

I've been swapping the L1 in & out today while listening & quite like the extra detail but also like the sound from the KEL alone. So I was interested with bigmoogs post, sounding like I could get the best of both worlds with a few tweaks to the L1!

Hmmm... we will see

Cheers, alfie

[Ali Tait]

I have a WAD Pre2,courtesy of another member here.I've since tweaked it a little,and I find it an excellent beast.One of these could be picked up for not too much money,and of course would match the KEL perfectly.The best hing about this little beastie is the fact that it is,in effect,a miniature triode amp,with some nice output transformers.This means it will drive pretty much anything amp-wise,and negates the problem of impedance-matching between components.The Pre3 is supposedly even better,though I've not heard one.Not the biggest contender in the sound-per-pound stakes though,as it's not cheap now,though probably still nothing commercial at the price will come near.Best thing would be to compare both pre's at some point with your amp,to see which you prefer.Could be done at the next Owston perhaps.

[Jonboy]

better than a croft or just different Ali ?

[Mike]

better than a croft or just different Ali ?

Oooooh.... :scratch:

Close call, that. Personally, I'd opt for the WAD/WD but mainly on grounds of cost.

[Ali Tait]

Jon,
Sorry I can't answer that as I've never heard Croft stuff,except for Marco's pre at a couple of Owstons.I would like to hear some,especially that OTL jobbie I see on ebay very occasionally! I can't and won't recommend stuff I haven't heard myself.

[alfie2902]

I have a WAD Pre2,courtesy of another member here.I've since tweaked it a little,and I find it an excellent beast.One of these could be picked up for not too much money,and of course would match the KEL perfectly.The best hing about this little beastie is the fact that it is,in effect,a miniature triode amp,with some nice output transformers.This means it will drive pretty much anything amp-wise,and negates the problem of impedance-matching between components.The Pre3 is supposedly even better,though I've not heard one.Not the biggest contender in the sound-per-pound stakes though,as it's not cheap now,though probably still nothing commercial at the price will come near.Best thing would be to compare both pre's at some point with your amp,to see which you prefer.Could be done at the next Owston perhaps.

I will try & get a listen to the WAD2/WD3 preamps they sound very interesting as miniature triode amps themselves. They also seem to be very well regarded from what I've read!

Long term though, I'm not sure the KEL is quite powerful enough for my LV OBX-R speakers there 94db into 6ohms but I seem to be running out of headroom when using the phono stage at highish SPLs. The newer OBX-R2 version had the external xovers rebuilt & is supposed to be an easier load, anyhow 15 watts perhaps isn't quite enough. So I may have to have a look at the WD88VA (Hope it's as nice as the KEL! maybe should of bought Gromits!) or maybe something else, but think I need about 25watts to be on the safe side.

Plan is to sell the Expo's & some other bit's & bobs & after christmas is out of the way & all paid for, Buy either a more powerful power amp OR a better preamp then save again to upgrade the other. Which way I go I'm not sure of ATM but it will be in a couple of months anyway. Hmm.. at some point I need to buy a nice big lump of slate for a plinth too.

Cheers, alfie

[Ali Tait]

Well if 15 watts is not enough for 94dB then there is a problem. Either the speakers have sacrificed a gentle impedance load for sensitivity,or you listen at insanely loud dB's! That KEL drove my statics which are I think about 82-83 dB very well indeed.Do you listen to Zep at concert levels or something?? :lolsign:

[alfie2902]

Yes it seems to be puzzling me a little too. Yesterday someone came to have a listen to a pair of Ruark Talisman II's (about 86db) I'm selling & the KEL seemed to drive them easier i.e. about the same gain as i drive the LV's for normal listening, not Zep at concert levels lol. My LVs are going back to Kevin for a health check one morning next week so we shall see. Hope it doesn't work out a costly visit to Definative!

[Macca]

.Do you listen to Zep at concert levels or something?? :lolsign:

Doesn't everyone...???:)

[DSJR]

The Talismans are incredibly over-damped if anything IIRC. Not a criticism, but speakers such as this do seem to need a bit of extra "grunt" to get those drivers moving in the first place. Other speakers like my Spendors (or especially the BC1) for example, need all the grip from an amp they can get if the bass isn't to completely lose it...

As for comparisons with Croft, you rarely see any of Glenns old stuff around for sale, but the Super Micro onwards would make an interesting comparison I reckon. I love the original Micro, RS casework and all, but with the charm comes a little noise and "rawness" in reproduction, ceratinly at the time. I'm sure Glenn could update it though in the same way I reckon Guy could his old AI designs.

[The Vinyl Adventure]

Linn majik ds - L1 pre - lm3886 gainclones - pmc fb1
Belive it or not, it sounds fantastic! Open, great soundstage! Someone I know used the word sweet when describing a hifi the other day.. I would use that word now! I'm so chuffed! I now have a stand in hifi I can listen too! I'm Gonna buy this pre an use this convo with my ushers in my second system I have a strong feeling that will be a very nice combo!!

[alfie2902]

The Talismans are incredibly over-damped if anything IIRC. Not a criticism, but speakers such as this do seem to need a bit of extra "grunt" to get those drivers moving in the first place. Other speakers like my Spendors (or especially the BC1) for example, need all the grip from an amp they can get if the bass isn't to completely lose it...

Hi Dave,

I think you may of missed what I was trying to say about the Talismans.

Let me try & explain better,
I'm using the WAD KEL84 at 15 watts into my Living Voice OBX-R which are rated 94dB which should produce pretty high SPLs. It seems though, as Ali said, that the speakers have sacrificed a gentle impedance load for sensitivity. What makes me believe this is the case, is that my old Ruark Talisman IIs rated at 86dB seem to produce very similar SPLs to the LVs when the volume pot is in a similar position. So either my LVs take alot more driving than their 94dB would suggest or they are broken, hence the health check!

Cheers, alfie

[alfie2902]

Linn majik ds - L1 pre - lm3886 gainclones - pmc fb1
Belive it or not, it sounds fantastic! Open, great soundstage! Someone I know used the word sweet when describing a hifi the other day.. I would use that word now! I'm so chuffed! I now have a stand in hifi I can listen too! I'm Gonna buy this pre an use this convo with my ushers in my second system I have a strong feeling that will be a very nice combo!!

Hi Hamish,

Glad it's working out for you! The L1 is pretty nice isn't it! For what they can be picked up for anyway. Might be different when you get your TD preamp though!

Cheers, alfie

[The Vinyl Adventure]

Hi Hamish,

Glad it's working out for you! The L1 is pretty nice isn't it! For what they can be picked up for anyway. Might be different when you get your TD preamp though!

Cheers, alfie

oh yeah!!! It sounds right faff comparered to the td kit!!
It's just good to have somthing to listen to until that comes through!

[DSJR]

Hamish, are you at Phototopic by any chance?

[The Vinyl Adventure]

yeah phototopic sight2sound... how did you know that?

[DSJR]

I dealt with the Swindon contingent when I was on the road many years ago and my colleague called on you (Karl). Some of your used stuff is very good and very reasonably priced as I recall :)

[The Vinyl Adventure]

pete at swindon is a really good bloke, i frequently ring him for advice on hifi.. he was telling me the other day he bought a sme v for a "couple of hundred quid" ... jammy git!
Karl? called on me specifically or swindon.. who did you used to work for dave?