Croft Amp

[Ninanina]

I am strangely wanting to try another Croft amp... I can't explain why :doh:

I did have a loan of the line integrated but was kinda not impressed, so why on earth I want to try another I really don't know..:scratch:

I think it might be that I want to retry out my LS3/5a's and the AN amp just cannot drive them properly... I have tracked down a phono integrated at a dealer so will probably be picking it up to give it a go in the next few days..

Maybe it's just an itch to be scratched I don't know :)

I have a rather 'rose tinted' view of anything that Glenn produces as I love the way the amps are put together; I love the handbuilt nature of his amps...;)

[Jimbo]

I have heard the Integrated Croft amps and they are a bit polite.

To be honest if you want to really hear what The Croft amps can do you would be best to by a separate Croft Micro preamp and the Series 7 power amp and stuff them with NOS valves. I have been on this journey and the end result is superb.

[Haselsh1]

I have used two Croft Micro 25 Basic preamps over the last few years and I am still waiting to be impressed. My current power amp is an SS unit with inbuilt gain controls for left/right and when I took the Croft out of the system things improved many, many times. The Croft simply strangled the whole sound. Yes, I know, we are talking about his most basic unit here that he no longer makes but on the basis of this, would I really want to invest £1,400 on another unit...? Maybe not.

[DSJR]

The Micro Basic has a cachet here I cannot understand. It's a scrappy thing, pared right down to the essentials to get it to work and is NOTHING like as good as a Micro 25 - I've compared them a few times when the Basic was available and the proper 25 model adds refinement, clarity and a less stressed kind of presentation to my ears anyway. Amps that have their own gain controls don't need the complexity of another preamp usually.

The Croft Integrated has a lovely tactile, clear and musical midrange, but the dynamic limits are low as there's not much space for a reasonable transformer and I find it can hard clip. Mind you, within its limits it's a lovely, wide open sound - just don't push it hard.

[rubber duck]

I have a 25 Basic and 25, both modded by Glenn. I thought I'd sell the Basic after I got the 25 but am still hanging on to it. Yes, the 25 is deeper, richer and better in comparison, but on its own the 25 Basic is still a fabulous preamp. It has a directness and immediacy that is like a breath of fresh air. The fact that Glenn has managed to par it down to so few components and such a simple circuit is the very thing that makes it so appealing for me. And as Marco has recommended, if you want a phono stage or full-function preamp, the 25 Basic is a complete no brainer. Nothing comes close at anywhere near the price.

[Macca]

Back in 2009 I bought a Micro Basic on Dave's (DSJR) recommendation. I had it for a couple of years, tried it with a few different power amps including the Croft 7.

It had an open quality that you don't usually get from cheap active pre-amps. On the downside it was very coloured, but that won't bother a lot of people. With the 7 power amp it was a good pairing - I think at the time the pair were just over £1K together, which, for brand new kit, was cheap for the sound quality offered.

After a couple of years I decided to pursue a different route entirely.

As Dave says, the Micro 25 is much more refined, but still a bit coloured. It is a lot more expensive, too, but I reckon it gives much more expensive valve pre-amps a run for their money - and that is the USP of Croft. I've not had a go of the integrated.

[Jimbo]

The Croft Micro 25R I have is anything but unrefined. As with all Croft preamps it has benefitted from a bit of tweaking and NOS valves but now sounds wonderful. You can't expect a basic £350 stripped back micro to sound the same or indeed the integrated in my opinion.

[hifi_dave]

I have many very happy Croft Integrated customers. Buy with confidence and there is one in the 'classifieds' at a good price.

[Yomanze]

There is no free lunch, the simpler more basic amps can indeed sound more 'lively' than the more expensive models with much substantial power supplies, where the refinement and transparency don't add as much flavour. This is why some people prefer simple integrated (driven within their means) rather than big pre / power.

[Frazeur1]

My thoughts on the Crofts are that they are very fine sounding pieces, not just for the money. But like a lot of things, they are not to me one of those that impresses(and generally something that impresses me right off, ends up sounding lame with more time) right out of the box with the OMG type thing.

I found for me, it took awhile of listening to them, time, lots of play time, a lot of music playing through them before I really came to appreciate what goodness they have in those little spartan boxes. And even then, I didn't quite appreciate them as much until I went back to my former setup and realized just how natural and unforced the Crofts made music, I know maybe a ridiculous statement here, but they just sounded right to my ears.

Like most things in the audio world, finding a system that all works together as one is the key I think.

[Audio Al]

The only Croft item I have owned and still own is the 25 Micro Basic and its still in my system < I am happy with it :)

[Ninanina]

Well I think I have one coming to me on Monday'ish... I want to try it with my LS3/5a's as well as the AN cannot drive them properly

I will let everyone know what I think once it's been in the system for a few hours ;)

[Firebottle]

I for one am looking forward to your findings Bev :)

[Cyreg]

Well I think I have one coming to me on Monday'ish... I want to try it with my LS3/5a's as well as the AN cannot drive them properly

I will let everyone know what I think once it's been in the system for a few hours ;)

Don't forget that the Croft Int's all are signal-phase inversed :-)
...so at the LS output + and - should be reversed!

Sound should be somewhat more warm with more 3D; good luck

[Ninanina]

I now have the Croft and will place it in the system in the next few hours...

I will let everyone know what my 'initial' thoughts are and then report again once it's been in for a few days... hope that might help... :D

[hayche]

You absolutely must try the integrated/series 7 with a JJECC82 in it before you make up your mind. Certainly not polite. More like brutal :)
JJECC83 for me was like a roll off in the bass. I have a really shitty room though !

[Ninanina]

I couldn't wait so the Croft is in....

My VERY first thoughts are...

a) It's much easier to lift than the AN... :lol:
b) It's quite 'lively' :eek:

That's it for now.... :D

[hayche]

What croft is it ? Lively like lots of euphoric mids and not much down below ?

[Ninanina]

It's the Phono Integrated...

Kind of like you say Howard...

It is so different to the AN... much more 'immediate' sounding if that makes any sense.. slightly 'forward' maybe ;)

[hayche]

It was a lot more than slightly forward for me. I do have a awful room with bass nulls though. With a ECC82 I had the best music I have ever had ,miss it tbh. I sold it to a wammer who agreed the 82 was superior for him also.

[Antinchip]

I have recently taken delivery of a new pair of Croft 7R mono power amps (with thanks to Adrian Parsons at Audioflair and of course Glenn Croft).

These have replaced a pair of Avondale M130 monos and are used with a Chevron Audio Paradox pre-amp. This has full remote control and HT pass-through, which are important to me, so Croft pre-amps are not on my radar. The amps are driving a pair of Tannoy Turnberry SE's.

I can happily say that my system sounds the best that it ever has. It is very easy just to sit back and enjoy the music. The sound is very natural and everything just sounds “right”. It is very clear with plenty of detail and ambience, with great scale and dynamics from the delicate to the slam. So very pleased and looking forward to continuing to enjoy my music more than ever before going forward.

I think that the Crofts are a better match to my Tannoy Turnberry’s than the Avondale M130’s. The sound before was just a little strident and I had to reduce the treble energy on the Tannoy’s to a minimum. I am now able to up the treble energy a notch and will experiment a bit more with this. Otherwise I will let things settle in and will leave tube rolling for the future.

Cheers

Anthony

[StanleyB]

Congrats on your new amp Anthony. As far as I understand it, Adrian is the exclusive dealer of the Croft amps with a remote. The other dealers only sell the non-remote versions.
For testing of my own designs on valve based amps I tend to borrow and use Crofts amps from Audioflair. I like the way that they do not bottom out or lock up on the low bass, which in turn gives me a chance to detect if there are any issues with the bass from my own products. The mids and treble response on the Croft amps need no repeat comments or praise since many have already written about them in the past.

[Antinchip]

Stanley, thank you for your comments. All is sounding good including with my Bushmaster II with (I think) latest firmware.

Yes, I saw that Adrian could provide remote, but volume only I think. I am very happy with the Chevron Paradox that Colin built for me earlier in the year with HT pass-through since I use my "proper Hi-Fi" as part of a surround system. It has remote volume and source selection as standard which is also useful.

By the by I have also just dropped in a Series 7 power amp configured for mono to drive the centre channel for multi-channel/movie use. Good for the odd DVD-A and SACD in the music collection.

Cheers

Anthony

[Ninanina]

Well the Croft is really 'growing' on me....

It certainly is very musical and I have noticed that it is very easy to hear the words being sung

I am really looking forward to trying it out on the LS3/5a's ;)

[Frazeur1]

Will be interesting to hear your thoughts on the differences between the Croft and your Oto, Nina. Have fun and enjoy your music!

[Ninanina]

I really should learn to listen better to you chaps.. :doh::doh::doh:

I had it confirmed by Glenn himself that the speaker terminals should be reversed ;)

I have now swapped them and I think the slightly 'hot' nature of the amp has gone

It is quite a different sounding amp than the AN.. but I like it, it's just different

I have a sneaky suspicion that if I swap back to the AN it might sound a bit 'dead' compared to the Croft... I will be doing this though in the next couple of days

I can definitely say one thing for the Croft though and that is I reckon for the money there is probably not much to touch it...:D

[Ninanina]

Well I now have a 'handle' on the Croft Integrated Amp

It is a very very good amp indeed for the money

I thought, when I put the AN back into the system, that I might miss the rather lively Croft but I don't

The Croft somehow misses the 'texture', 'feeling' and 'expression' that the Oto has in spades. The Croft kinda glosses over these qualities somewhat

I think if I am going to go the Croft route I would need to move up the range to the Series 7R power and Micro 25R pre and then I am pretty sure the difference would swing it for the Croft amps

It has been a very interesting experience with the Croft and it is seriously a very good amp indeed and I think within it's price range a real bargain buy

I think it has just confirmed to me how good the AN really is

However the Croft, with the LS3/5a's ,was very good indeed and certainly the AN cannot drive them properly...but I 'missed' my Rega speakers and was only really happy once the AN went back in driving them and the Croft was just too 'hot' with the Rega's... blimey I hope that makes some sense...

I will be sticking with the Oto for a while yet as it does do what I want it to and has absolutely no 'nasty' edges and with the Rega's it seems to be very happy indeed :)

[Ninanina]

I guess I may be sad SET amp convert after all ... :doh::doh::D

[Frazeur1]

Interesting Nina, the Oto is indeed a very fine amp, and not to short the Croft either. Could be one of those things that is system dependant as well as "ear dependant" too.

[Firebottle]

I guess I may be sad SET amp convert after all ... :doh::doh::D

What's so sad with the SET conversion anyway :scratch:

I think your 'handle' on the Croft is spot on, with definite benefits accruing from moving up the range.
To compete with a good Class A you have to look further up the range, IMO.

:cool:

[petrat]

Yes, the Oto SE is quite special at its price point.
Have you heard it with its 'natural' partner speakers, the AN AZ3H?
http://www.decoaudio.com/deco_audio_speakers1.html

[hayche]

Deffo worth picking a JJECC82 up. Glenn installs them as a lower gain alternative and they made a big difference in sound signature for me.

[Ninanina]

Yes, the Oto SE is quite special at its price point.
Have you heard it with its 'natural' partner speakers, the AN AZ3H?
http://www.decoaudio.com/deco_audio_speakers1.html

Hi Peter... No I have not heard the AZ3's with the Oto however I did have a pair of AN speakers but I cannot for the life of me remember if they were the AN-J's or AN-K's but they did not work at all well in my room; they were just 'boomy' and sounded really awful in my room

I loved them in the room I heard them in but could not replicate the sound... It's the pair of speakers that I owned for the shortest time :doh:

Have you heard the AZ2/3's with the Oto ?

[Ninanina]

What's so sad with the SET conversion anyway :scratch:

I think your 'handle' on the Croft is spot on, with definite benefits accruing from moving up the range.
To compete with a good Class A you have to look further up the range, IMO.

:cool:

Thanks Alan for saying that I got the Croft 'spot on'... I always find it very difficult to try and assess any new piece of hifi but I did try to convey, the best I could, what I experienced with the Croft amp in place

As to being a 'sad' SET convert? well I just thought, from reading on the net, that SET 'people' are supposed to be a rather sad lot... well I don't consider myself as 'sad' but I do think that my AN has a certain 'something' which is actually quite tricky to explain.. I think it has lots of 'feeling' and 'expression' that I have not been able to replicate with any other amp I have tried out so far and as those qualities are obviously important to me I will be staying the the AN for a while yet

The only thing I wish I could do is to drive some 'other' speakers... I have a list of 'other' speakers I'd like to try... but I know I cannot with the Oto.. I will probably learn to live with that though.. ;)